Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ok, I've been thinking alot about how successful Chinese Democracy is going to be and I've come to the conclusion that this album is pretty much going to be huge no matter what. Be warned, this is a long post, but I think you will all agree with me on the points I'm going to make.

First of all, there are three possible scenarios:
A. The album is released and the general public does not really care. It sells few copies and barely makes the headlines.
B. The album is released and it's really bad and Axl becomes a laughingstock for spending years on making a crappy album.
C. The album is released, it's a good album and is a big/huge success.

I think we can eliminate scenario A right off the bat because this album is going to be all over the music press simply on the storyline behind it. The return of Axl Rose, one of the most controversial figures in rock, who pretty much disappeared from the public spotlight for a decade. The fact that he's done JACK SQUAT all these years, yet people still talk about him (mostly negative, but still...), he still gets on the cover of Spin magazine in 1999, an interview with him is treated as big news in both rolling stone and MTV, the crowd goes crazy for a GNR performance in MTV VMA 2002, etc. etc. Love him or hate him, he's an intriguing figure. Do you think if Cyndi Lauper or Billy Idol performed at the VMA's they would get the same reaction? Next scenario.

Scenario B nobody can really predict. However... BASED ON THE QUALITY OF THE MUSIC WE'VE HEARD SO FAR, this album is going to be successful. Let's just say that Madagascar and The Blues are the BEST songs on the album. As GNR fans we may be somewhat disappointed but just imagine an epic video made for The Blues that gets regular rotation on MTV sandwiched with the latest modern day crapola by Good Charlotte and Ashlee Simpson. This song would be a hit. Maybe not a smash, but definitely Top 40. This album could easily sell platinum on one hit single and the storyline behind it: a rock star who left the music scene at the height of his popularity, retreats into his mansion like a hermit, and comes back 10 years later with a new band and a new hit album. And everybody (besides diehard gunner fans like ourselves) have LOW expectations for the album. If you ask almost any music fan that remembers GNR, they view Axl Rose as an overweight, plastic surgery'd 80's has-been who ruined a great band by firing all of his bandmates and CD will be a techno-influenced piece of horse dung that will sell two copies. This negative attitude will only HELP the perception of the album when it's finally released because we KNOW it will have quality songs and deep down inside people like to be suprised. "This album is gonna suck, this album is gonna suck ... wait, it's actually pretty good..." ONE hit single will make it a huge success.

So Scenario C is most likely. No one can predict if CD will be AFD-caliber in our eyes, but if this album has ONE hit song Axl Rose will definitely be the comeback kid. The reason why I'm writing this is because it just seems like the people behind this album (AXL) are petrified that it just won't be good enough and that's why it keeps getting delayed. Just do it, Axl.  :beer:

I'd say C because if VR can be extremely sucessful with their album, surely freaking Axl Rose is more identified with GNR would.

I say Axl is more of a Converse man  :P

Chinese Democracy Starts Now, Post #6,305.

I see what you mean by if the blues n maddy were the best songd it would still be better then GC n other bands, but remember there's a trend of EMO and young looking bands that have a huge fan base,,... SOmetimes the music changes the scene, but other times no matter how good the music is the people don't want to change..

Waiting for this album is amazing, it's just one album, this is total BS... I don't buy buckethead ruined everything...

I always thought of rock as something that just came natural, not something you kept working on forever to make it perfect.. Any band could sit around improving parts here and there, but why bother, it's rock it doesn't need to be perfect.. I just jope it isn't some massive overproduced album that shows..

Mike, do you expect it to be anything other than self-indulgent and overproduced?  This is the guy that was the mastermind behind NR and Estranged who now happens to run his own show and have final veto power over any creative input...we know that a major factor behind the original band's demise involved those who wanted to stick to straight ahead RnR, and the guy who wanted to move GNR beyond borders, so to speak....Thus, we have Contraband and an ever-changing "New GNR" project.  This doesn't mean to imply that the CD will not be phenomenal, but if nothing else, it will be overproduced and self-indulgent, IMO...

B would be the saddest day for any HTGTH poster.

I couldn't agree with you more.  The original appeal of Guns N' Roses was that, instead of doing all these over-produced pop-metal singles and formulaic corporate power ballads, they came out with a rip-roaring, take-no-prisoners rock 'n' roll album that was raw, hard, and yet had enough melody to craft some of the most memorable songs ever.  And they did it in two weeks!  "Sweet Child O' Mine" was done in only one take, for crying out loud, and that's my favourite song ever.  If you've got a good producer, and a good song, you don't need to spend ages going over it, you just need to lay it down and get it out.

I read that Bruce Springsteen sometimes has similar problems.  Back when they were making Born To Run, he was constantly obsessing over every little detail, wanting to re-do stuff all the time, saying he didn't like this or that, thinking he might just scrap the album, until finally his producer Jon Landau came to him and said, "Look.  You are not supposed to like it.  Do you think Chuck Berry sits around listening to "Maybellene" all day?  And when he does hear it, don't you think that he wishes a few things could be changed?  C'mon, it's time to put the record out."  And he did, and look what happened - it was the album that put Bruce on the map.  That was part of the appeal of the original GN'R - they had the songs already, they just went in there and recorded them.  Easy.

The trouble is probably that Axl has surrounded himself with yes-men.  With the original band, he had people who could stand up to him and say, "It's fine!  Let's put it out."  I think Izzy was probably the strongest force in this regard, since he was Axl's old buddy from school and was really more of a "one-take" kinda guy.  But now Axl has no one to look him in the eye and say, "the song's great.  It's not gonna get any better.  I'm sick of recording, let's release the album already."  It's lonely at the top.

I'm sure it will be the way you say, but part of me hopes that the new guys weren't just yes men and kept axl somewhat humble at times.. Having november rain n estranged in such a mix in two albums was good, I just don't need 5 songs like them.. WHo knows though, seems like the album will never come out..

Matt, I feel the same.. My initial love for gnr was because they lived their lives in their music, their attitude their I don't give a fuck lifestyle, everything rock n roll is/was.. They were rebels so to speak, they had the best debut album..

ANother thing with the wait with this album is how everyone has justified it by saying three albums over 6 years isn't bad and this one album every year, etc.. Now if they just release one album over six years was it still worth the wait? It doesn't seem like there are more then one album, and we can't even get solid info on the only album..

Yeah, the original GN'R had been playing together for 2 years and they released AFD. In 6 years they released AFD, Lies, and the UYI twins, which were double-double albums, 'cause at the time bands made 50-55 minutes long albums. And don't forget, they'd been touring for years! I knew that it'd take a long time for Axl to come out with his album because his working style, and when you don't have bandmates, but employees, hardly anyone can say that 'Axl, it's not good, do it in another way'. So I knew it'd take years, but I've never known it'll take this long...

I thought it would take a little bit of time to get on the same page and have the same working style.. Another part of me looks at how new bands form all the time and make it from scratch as well.. I can't sit here and  believe it's all buckethead's fault.. There has been ideas and work done since 98, so there has been tons of time to do things, not to mention the band is filled with members..

Say teh band layed beats n riffs and played the songs and axl sang and it was good.. How many times can you tweak n fuck around witrh songs here n there?? It goes from being somewhat edgy and raw to just some manafactured big production of perfection.. Takes the excitement of the unknown out a bit.. 

I've seen axl mention a computer sound whcih he felt gnr fans weren't ready for.. Will We ever be ready for that, and who the fuck wants that? It's just rock n roll, not brain surgery and everything shouldn't be like trying to make perfection..

Just braisntorm some riff n beats with the band thrown some lyrics out there and go with it, don't act like you're operating on someone..

got to C of course

Based on what we've heard and the talent in the band, C is the most likely option.

And I don't really care if it's 'overproduced' cos most music is enhanced by production.  Some more than others obviously, but most.  Even Led Zep used tons of it - loads of layering of guitars, loads of instruments that the band wouldn't be able to carry over and play on stage etc, even vocal effects.

The main reason you shouldn't knock production is because the band will always be raw live.

If you mean no assistance from the studio then yes, but we know how unraw gnr could get, horns, pianaos, keyboards, bangos, female background vocals, wardrobe changes... Becomes no better then a britney justin concert in effects and uneeded shit department..

Lets not kid ourselves, afd ritz 88 was raw...

Ok... so how would you go about playing November Rain without a piano  ;)

Saying the UYI shows were no better than Britney Timberfuck or whatver her name is was below the belt though - please retract that statement!

I do agree with you on the female vocallists, that sort of thing never sounded good, especially at a GNR concert.  I think by looking at the 2002 tour, Axl might've dropped a few of those old ideas anyway.  The only bit you could call unneeded shit was a second keyboard player.

I think C is the likely option but it depends on your definition of a big success. I don't think it will be huge but I think it can do as well as VR or a little better since they have the GNR name.

Nice post, Mattman.

Ok not the piano, I was just saying britney n justin because it became a huge production and it was more or less scripted and had alot of uneeded shit which took the band away from their old playing days..

Sure there was the element of will axl show up, will he have a rant or possibly hit someone, but I'm talking more about the program...

I looked at the 2002 tour and saw 8 people onstage, just looked like  a bit much... Jmo..

Is there such a thing as "Overproduced"?....Come one people.....one cannot overproduce something,when they want it to sound that way.....Overproduced is a bunch of bullshit if you ask me.

I like the Illusions better than Appetite. there I said it !  :P
If I want Chidem to be like something in the past it would surely be the illusions, AFD is great but a bit naive and simple. Gimme COMA or Estranged !

OPTION C SOUNDS PRETTY COOL . :peace:

LETS JUST HOPE IT REALLY COMES OUT IN FEBRUARY CAUSE IM STARTING TO LOSE IT.

It's just a word, could just mean a little to much..

Great point...I suppose a song is not overproduced if it sounds the way its creator intended it to sound....

i think the count to eight ruins perfect crime