Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Here in Philadelphia (where I live), Dee Snider of Twisted Sister hosts an evening radio show.? Although I?m sure that this will spawn a barrage of posts ranting about Dee being a loser, douchebag, and every other comment imaginable, he seems to be a stand-up guy who always remembers the fans (one example: he offered to personally hand deliver printed emails to Ozzy regarding his no-show here in August).? Last night he had quite a few comments on Axl, the no-show concert, and Chinese Democracy.? Dee basically said ?Who the fuck does Axl Rose think he is??? He went on to explain that holding this album over everyone?s head for so long is so counterproductive that by the time he finally does release it, no one will care.? He pointed out that for the most part, people aren?t anxiously anticipating this album (other than the people who dedicate their lives to this forum and the band) and probably wouldn?t bother to buy it when it does come out.

All in all, this made me think: who really does care?? Does Axl think that MTV will put his sorry ass on their programming again?? What makes this band any different than the current Van Halen reunion (i.e. VH is doing well, but they are not changing the world, setting sales records, making the news, etc)?

Dee also applauded Velvet Revolver for getting their stuff together and releasing a strong album.

I acknowledge that this is my first post (although I read the forum almost daily) so I expect the bitching, moaning, discrediting to begin. . .

P.S.? I?ve been inclined to write before, but Dee?s comments really put the irrelevance of GNR in perspective and made me wonder how some people could be so disillusioned.

There still seems to be an interest in GN'R and also what Axl does. All you have to do is to look at how great the Greatest Hits is selling.

GN'R was asked to headline one night at the RIR4 festival so obviously there's interest in the band.




/jarmo

I'm not surprised. It's not the first time Dee has made negative comments about Axl, far from it. Same shit, different day......

Dee IS a loser, and a douchebag.....and a stand up guy, to boot.  If you ever call in to his show, tell him that 106.9 WCCC in Hartford is his DADDY.  He'll get a laugh out of it, trust me.

I'm not surprised by Dee's comments, either. He's said basically the same sorts of stuff when he was on air up here in CT.  However, he also has said that Axl is a creative genius, and one of the best frontmen in history (next to him, of course.. :) ).  He's just frustrated...both at the lack of material, and for the fans.

Regardless of what other people try to get you to believe, GNR is still very popular in the world abroad. People want this album and want Axl out there again...

Well you have to admit if they are being asked to play rock events (Rio) they are still a marketable commodity to some corporation out there... ::)

I love Axl and NU-GNR to death, but I totally agree with Dee.  If Axl would have released this album 4 years ago he would be considered a genius.  Now with VR coming back, people are gonna miss the old GNR and perhaps not embrace the new group as much.  Sometimes I think Axl missed the boat.  But, this is one circumstance where I hope I'm wrong

Well at the free velvet revolver show here in hollywood which i went to a lot of people kept chanting Axl Axl at Weiland.  I dont think this is cool but there is still a hunger to see the greatest front man of all time.  I love Dee Snider.   I grew up on Long Island listening to him on a radio show called the metal nation in the mid 90s but he should shut the fuck up.  Who the fuck is he to talk about anyone.  I really cant wait til ChiDem comes out to shut people the fuck up more than anything.  He comes on the air in Philly over a year after it happened and feels the need to open his fuckin mouth about something he wasnt even around for. 

Please let ChiDem start soon!  I cant take assholes talkin shit anymore!

Dee Snider seems to be a pretty cool host.  I don't think he is too far off on his comments when it comes to the average fan.  LEt's face it, we are diehard.  We come to GNR websites, every single day when there is like 2 real pieces of new news a year.

BTW - RIOTinPHILLY should not be confused by myself, Philly Riot. I am an innocent victim who was hit by a soda, when all he wanted was to hear Axl sing, on a cold December evening back in 2002.

All  you have to do is look at how nuts people went when Axl and the new gnr played the VMAs not to long ago.  People still care reguardless of what Dee says or thinks. 

That was a novelty, no one had seem him in 9 years. If the same thing happened at last years VMA's the reaction would not have been what it was not having seen him in 9 years. The VMA's set the band back in terms of people's perceptions of Axl and what he had left in the tank after the performance. Luke warm ticket sales for the tour minus a few markets seem to support that assumption.

(Cue the typical responses we get about the 15 minute sellout and nothing to promote)

Dee is not as stupid as he looks,but he makes a big mistake when talking shit about Axl,simply because he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

Of course that,from the outside,it seems that while Slash&co got their shit together,Axl is playing with a bunch of losers and no one will wait for his album,but simple facts like GH album sells,the attendences at concerts in big cities in 2002,MTV making every little Axl news into a big thing(like that Vegas CD preview) or the fact that the new members are indeed GREAT musicians show tha GNR is not over yet.

Im sorry you all saying that the sales of greatest hits shows the interest in Axl, maybe you shoudlstep back and think "hang on, that was the ORIGINAL gn'r" its not just axl they're interested inm, its the real GN'Rs music. Also the tour not so long ago was definitly down to curiosity, obviously a different story for you die-hard Axl fans but you know, the general public dont see it the same as you...

I think dee has some points there, he's reaching with a few but some are valid.. He has said positive things about gnr as a whole in the past in countdowns and stuff like that..

I think it's true more about internet fans because I could ask a few friends about gnr and they wouldn't know anything going on, and alot think gnr ended a long time ago..

Look at how alot of older bands have been doing in releasing new stuff from a layoff, greenday sold about 250 k, REM just sold 59 k, Vh's greatest hits was like 160 k.. On the other hand The Beastie boys have been doing well with their album, big part is their videos and getting out there and letting people know they're back..
There's no doubt in my mind the longer it takes the harder it will be.. It's all how it's marketed, I still see the time machine commercial talking about gnr's long awaited album..

Dee Snider is a cool guy who shoots straight from the hip when he talks about other rockers.  I think that his criticisms of Axl are totally valid; it IS stupid for Axl to spend so long on this album, to not show for his fans during his "comeback" tour, and to replace the original band, which made Guns N' Roses what it is, with a revolving door new lineup.

In my opinion Axl does not owe anyone an album. He owes people an explanation of things that he has done before, such as tour cancellations (which we know he can't talk about that stuff because of legal issues).

Who do he think he is? well, he thinks he is what he really is. The only original member from a band who ruled the world for a period of time. He thinks he is a guy who is trying to show the world that he can carry on the name of that band, with a whole bunch of new members, and still prove he can deliver good music; thing that is not easy at all.

I'm sure Axl hasn't been watching talk shows everyday for 4 years now.

Who does Dee Snider think he is? I'm sure he'd love to be at least 20th in those "Best frontmen of all time" lists where Axl is always top 10.

And of course, Dee Snider has no reason to be bitter whatsoever... does he? I mean, after all, he has an AMAZING career as a radio host.  Not to mention his rinky dink appearances on various VH1 specials that tell of an era long since past.  Yes... this is EXACTLY what lead singers of rock bands actually dream of becoming... HAS BEENS!  By the time Guns N' Roses hit the big time, Twisted Sister was nothing more than a memory of lame videos and half-assed rock anthems.  Luckily for Dee, radio has a place for starving, out of work, broke rock n roll has beens.

Hmmm....  comments from the likes of Dee Snider appear to be nothing more than sour grapes to me.

You don't think that the people, who bought the Greatest Hits, might be interested in what the guys who created that music are doing today?



/jarmo

Dee is a cool guy and put out good music after twisted sister with widowmaker.... he is not a has been but he should shut the fuck up about axl.

why is that? If axl is a perfectionist and is trying to make something truly special, why is it a bad thing for him to take his time and put it out when it's done? Would you have preferred 'It's Five o'Clock Somewhere' as the follow up to the Illusions just so they got something out fast? I wouldn't have. I prefer nothing than see a band's music go to crap; Rush comes to mind as an example.

We will know what GnR is when they release CD; anyone here who thinks they know or better put, pretends to know, are just blowing smoke out their collective arses. 

My only advice for some of you is to just relax. Don't wait for it to happen, just let it happen. if it's good, you can come back here and enjoy it with the rest of us. If you hate it, well, it didn't take too much from you life so you can just move on along. Either way, this rampant speculation is just embarrassingly pointless.

Look at it this way. Would you rather rush Cd and have it be as bad as St Anger? Or wait and maybe have it be as good as or better than AFD and the UYIs

Chinese Democracy wouldn't be rushed if it were released tomorrow.  When you've been working on an album for a decade, I'd say it's about time to release it.  And it's not like an album has to be painstakingly produced over many years.  I believe that one of the greatest rock albums ever was recorded in only two weeks.  You might have heard of it - it's called Appetite For Destruction.

Axl started working on CD in 1999 so it has not been 10 years. And so what if AFD only took two weeks. People really need to get a life and get out more and stop worrying about when CD is going to be released.

Hes pretty negative to a lot of people. axl isnt an excetion

I see your point Dizzy. But I think that it's been a while since it's not Axl's fault anymore.

He doesn't "owe" us anything, meaning he doesn't have an absolute obligation.  But the fact is, he has assembled a new line-up, toured the world, and several times said the album will come out.  Therefore, if it doesn't come out, I would say he has let down a lot of people.  Had he, once the old Gn'r broke up, said it's over, nobody would have a problem with it, including myself.  But, everyone remember we are the only reason why he is rich and famous.  Without his fans buying his records, going to his shows, buying Gn'r merchandise, etc., he would be working at McDonald's.  Again, I'm not saying he "has" to release the album, but when you hint to your very, very loyal and patient fans (like us) that there will be an album, you should release it.

i useually lisen to him at work.but haven't herd this ,ive missed a few weeks.no radio
at work those nights.but if i would have herd this i would have been pissed off.sure good things take time.and it seems as though alot of time has passed.but i srongly feel this will be worth the wait we have been waiting so long.i think dee has had his time in rock n' roll.now doing talk radio wow were's that at,for a rocker.now retired from rocking out.but doing talk radio whopee' yeah axl will allways be a rocker.and were will dee be.ahhh talking to old folkz on the radio.yeah ok whatever dee.i used to like your show.

has anyone defended axl on his show.cause he is getting a phone call from me .
the next show is on friday night.AND GUESS WHO WILL BE DEFENDING AXL.YES YOU GOT IT RIGHT ME. : ok:who the fuck is he anyway.

i just e-mailed him.about axl in defence of axl that is.i told him i was goimng to call in on his show.next friday night.you can e-mail him in defence of axl too.
wmmr.com
that is the site to go on to e-mail him.it was easy as pie.

Forget about Axl until CD comes out.  He hasn't said a word for a reason, when CD hits then he will speak his mind.  People obviously still care if he's filling arenas without promotion and going nuts when he hits the stage in 2002.

Let the haters say whatever they want; when the CD drops, the music will speak for itself.

I'm not suggesting that Dee's opinions are not valid, only that they reek of virulent intentions.? It's easy to stand on the bottom rung and look up with distaste at the people on the rungs above you.? The view from the bottom stinks, and that is what Dee is demonstrating with his commentary.

We don't know the real reason behind the hold up on Chinese Democracy.? It might be finished, there might be legal issues, the truth is, nobody knows the real reason except for those directly involved with the project.?


I agree with this comment.? Negative comments about GNR and Axl doesn't benefit anyone except perhaps Dee, by placating his own twisted ego.

ha, who the fuck is Dee Snider? oh that's right, he is the one Hit wander 80's cheesy ass Rock Star  :o he has the balls to talk shit about Axl, yet he cant come up with another Hit song....LMFAO

All the has beens this days who cant make it any more in  the music business, take a cheep shot at the Greatest Rock star in our generation.

Dee= a has been rock star and a dummy radio jock.

i couldnt agree more.. take the statement from metallica's behind the music for example.. they said something about "that's why gnr faded away and a band like metallica is still around" but i think its better to burn out w/ two kickass albums in 91 and a decade of silence than to fade away with one kickass album in 91 and 3 shitty albums in a row in the decade to follow..

and i really couldnt care less what dee snider thinks.. i've only been a gnr fan since late 2002 but even since then i've read enough crap that i'm used to random cock-knockers bitching at/about axl.. same shit out of a different asshole..  :)

Do you believe that yourself or did you just post it to get a reaction?

Even without doing anything since 2002, Axl is still the bigger star of them. It would be ridiculous to say anything different.



/jarmo

Hello? Freddy Mercury died in November of 1991. He hasn't toured since (obviously), but are you also gonna say that Dee Snider's bigger than him just because he has toured since then? Are you forgetting who Axl Rose is? Do you seriously think that if it was Dee Snider and his band were the ones closing the 2002 VMAs that the whole crowd would be jumping up n' down insanely and that the whole music media circuit would be drooling over on the performance? (the shock value was immense)Do you see MTV worshipping Dee? No. When I see the behind the scenes VMAs footage I see how MTV producers and workers talk about giving Guns N' Roses a slot at any time. They actually said "ofcourse we're gonna give Guns N' Roses a slot!". They all talk about Axl as if he was Freddy Mercury or someone of that stature. Axl may never do anything ever again in his career, but he will always still be defined as one of the best and most memorable Rock N' Roll frontment in Rock N' Roll history wheather you like it or not, period. That's something Dee Snider can't even touch.

Besides, did you see Dee Snider sell out a 35,000 seater stadium in Japan and setting attendance records for that particular venue in 2002? I don't think so. Axl Rose hadn't been in the public spotlight since 1994 prior to that and still pulled it off with the new band. You know there's a reason Axl Rose was in VH1's Top 200 Pop Culture Icons and in Time Magazine's "People Who Changed the World" issue.

Say whatever you want about Axl, but you seriosuly cannot truly believe that statement yourself. Axl Rose has made his dent in music history and there is no denying of that.

I can't believe I actually have to post this......(also Dave, please don't "help", you'll ruin my argument.... :hihi:)

you got that right !

people like Dee are the ones who are just jelious or need someone like Axl to pick on,
TWISTED SISTER :confused:  c'mpon Dee, i respect you n' your music but there are a million things we can pick on you for, hey glam queen!!!!!

Just remember when it comes out, it's gonna shut them all up, it's definatly gonna shit on those cheesy 80's rock song tunes!!!!......were not gonna take it....no :confused: :confused:

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: yeah... and Twisted Sister sells out every stadium it books, doesn't it!  HA!  Poison and different line ups of Ratt are touring too... but they aren't selling out their venues.  Even in his silence and sanctuary, Axl is on a higher rung than mr. radio show.  When an album of Twisted Sister's sells 10 million copies or more, then we'll talk about Dee's 'superstar' status.  Until then, his negative comments directed toward Axl demonstrate a sense of bitterness.

Why just assume that these comments are borne out of "bitterness?"

People make it sound like Dee Snider sits in a darkened room all day, sticking pins in Axl Rose voodoo dolls; I'm sure he really doesn't give that big a shit.

Besides, he has a point. Axl should have delivered by now. He somehow snatched defeat from the jaws of victory in 2002, and hasn't been seen since, so it's hardly surprising that he attracts the odd derogatory comment like this, even if the sequence of events in 2002 wasn't entirely his fault.

I wish people would stop being so obsessive and God damn groupie-like about Axl. He still gets up in the morning and takes a shit like the rest of us. No wonder he never goes outside with people like this around...

Well, you're clearly showing bitterness toward Axl in your post... and you can even be blind to see that, as long as you can read.

This is more of the talk that will disappear when CD is released. It may take a while longer, but when Axl finally lets it go, wanks like Dee Snider will change their tune. At the very least focus on the music instead of personal insults. Anyway, now I will think no more of this has been......

How many years have you been saying this?

LOL. It's tattooed on my forehead....backwards at that. It is what keeps me alive every week. : ok:

That's strange...

POISON
Total Gross: $6.7 million
Average Tickets Sold Per Show: 4,876
Number of Cities/Shows: 59/59 !!!

GUNS N' ROSES
Total Gross: $6.5 million
Average Tickets Sold Per Show: 8,660
Number of Cities/Shows: 16/16

- Pollstar

Chinese Democracy starts now!

hey people,many of you guys aren't real

how somebody can compare gnr and twisted sister,or axl rose and  xxx

hey people,axl ros eis legend and gnr tto,and who the fuck is that guy

And what were people talking about after GNR's performance?  Other than the die hards, most were making fun of his hair, his overall look, how bad he sounded and how out of breath he was.

I equate Axl to Anna Kournikova...Even though she's  a tennis player, she's known for everything but her tennis.  A lot of the same for Mr. Bill Bailey, he's more known for his behavior, the riots he's helped to start, his freakish looks as of late and much, much more that has nothing to do with music.

moron!

Sorry to offend you dude, but what you just said above was very moronic description.   :o

i have to agree with boner on that one.

i don't get that argument. I don't think the GNR hit has anything to do with Axl's future success.
the GH was a hit because in people's mind it is directly linked to Guns n Roses.

BUT, people won't make thet link between axl and GNR.
and well, even if they make, it will be a bad link, and they will diss him.

That's might be why axl didnt rush when GH came out, he knew that it wouldnt help him.

The only thing I have to add is that MTV allowed a band with no album and only one original member to close it's biggest award show with an epic eight minute performance; they would never allow Poison or TS a slot like that. How many promoters would then give said band an arena tour ? Of course something fucked it up. What fucked it up is still a mystery, but the fact that there is still an appetite for this music and the mystery that is axl rose goes a long way.  GnR have a mystery and intrigue about them that no sensually defunct band has today.

The reason MTV gave Axl the headline slot is because he still sells on his unique persona, mistery and legacy of the band alone. You have to remember GNR was huge back when MTV was getting big too so its part of their history.

I never give to shits about what former Jar heads think or say!!

But don't forget the greatest hits is selling because is GN'R,it's not the new band.

sure oh sure, the new band hasnt done anything to prove its a hot commodity yet so its obvious the GH sold because of the old band.

Did I say something different?

You obviously think that the casual music fan is going to look up all the info on who's in that band and then decide "nah, I'm not interested in it since Axl is the only one left".

Not everybody is as attached to the name thing as you and certain others on this board. I think many people will just be happy if GN'R sounds like GN'R and they don't care if Slash isn't playing guitar on the records anymore.

Only the hardcore fans know who's in the band. Not the parents who are buying cds for their kids' birthdays, not the kid who goes into a record store after hearing a song on the radio that he/she liked....



/jarmo

"You obviously think that the casual music fan is going to look up all the info on who's in that band and then decide "nah, I'm not interested in it since Axl is the only one left".

Not everybody is as attached to the name thing as you and certain others on this board. I think many people will just be happy if GN'R sounds like GN'R and they don't care if Slash isn't playing guitar on the records anymore.

Only the hardcore fans know who's in the band. Not the parents who are buying cds for their kids' birthdays, not the kid who goes into a record store after hearing a song on the radio that he/she liked..."


I disagree... :no:

Are you saying that people are stupid ?  ::)

Stupid? No.


Let me ask you something: How often do you discover a new band and then decide not to buy the album because they've changed band members over the years?

Here's a scenario for you: GN'R releases a new single. Person A hears it on the radio and the DJ says "so that was the new single from GN'R, the new album is out next week". Person A thinks "I'll have to check it out. That sounded great!"

The following week Person A is in a record store and sees a display featuring the new GN'R record. What does this person do?
A. Buy the record since (s)he liked the single played on the radio.
B. Don't buy the record because (s)he found out Slash wasn't in the band anymore.




/jarmo

So it seems like that NU-GN'R was only given by the chance to play at the VMAs because Guns N' Roses was so big back in '87-'94. Not the new band was invited, but the old's legacy. People went to the 'Chinese Democracy World Tour', because they thought GN'R will play there. Not for Nu-GN'R. And on the other hand this 'world tour' wasn't successful with half-full arenas. As years go by memories getting nicer, but don't forget the titles such as 'GN'R 2002 is not an arena band'.

I'll purchase the record if I like what I hear,it doesn't matter to me if Slash and the others aren't in the band. I'll always know that it isn't GN'R that I'm listening to,but there's something you can bet on, if it rocks I'll buy it.

They invited GnR, yes, because of how big they once were. They wouldn't ask Jet to close the VMAs. Only the big guns get invited to close shows. They also invited them because there is still considerable interest in what Axl is doing ; everyone recognizes how talented this guy is.

You are semi correct that people went to the shows expecting to see the old band. There were some people there like that; but there were alot of people who went to see the new guys, either fans or curiosity following the VMA performance. Many people were wearing buckets and singing the new songs. It was a good mix.

But overall I think you are missing the point: people went to the shows to hear GNR music again. Judging from the reaction of the crowds I witnessed, they loved the new guys take on the old songs and were thrilled to see Axl again. No matter what anyone says, he is popular enough to carry this band in lieu of slash and duff. If Axl wasn't there, it would not have worked. Although the 2002 was frought with problems and not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, it was for me a good appetizer for what is hopefully to come.

Your statement that GnR 2002 was not?an arena band is just shortsighted. First of all, there were sellouts: The non US shows were all sold out as well as Boston and MSG. In fact the East Coast dates were selling quite well. The early portion of the US Tour was a disappointment but I think that it was partially to ill advised scheduling. There were shows in remote areas like Boise, Hartford, and Fargo during the middle of the work week which had no hope of filling up 10 000 seat arenas.? More importantly though,?the disappointing turn out at the beginning of the tour can be attributed to the limited publicity and lack of an album to promote. Without a single on the radio and an album in the stores, GnR could do nothing but spin it's own wheels with a redundant set list. Not a great choice, but one hopefully that will never be made again.

Will people embrace a new lineup of players on a comparable level with the old band? Probably not but it will depend on the quality of the new music.

 D.S is probably just pissed and jelous cuz 1) no one gives a flying fuck about twisted sister and his stupid ass 2) axls more popular and loved 3) axls had more hits than he has 4)axl probably has way more fans than them 5) dee's a dickhead

I went to see GNR just to SEE GNR. I could care less who was in the band. I grew up listening to the music. I listened to people who got to go see GNR on the UYI tour. I was so jealous I'm surprised I didn't turn green. Sure, I'm VERY partial to Axl, but I was SO happy that there was some sort of GNR tour, that I knew I HAD to be there. I wanted to see GNR play so bad, that even after the Philly Riot, which I was in the middle of, I STILL drove down that Sunday or whatever it was, for the second Philly show, only to find out the tour was cancelled. But I feel honored and privilaged that I was able to see them at MSG. It's something I can have as a GNR fan. I want the album to come out as much as the next person does. But no matter what happens, or how much drama goes on, I will be a GNR fan forever. As long as I have something to play music on, or watch a concert on, GNR music will go on with me forever. Whether its 4 albums or 40, I am just glad that there was a GNR to begin with.

Couldnt agree with you more...I have been saying this for years on this board..

As for the VMA thing. Of course they earned the cloising spot because of old gnr success. But killingvector hit it right on the head. Peopel are interested in Axl ROse. Case Closed. The guy  draws interest and mystique. If i remember correctly tehre were stars on the red carpet before the show saying how they couldnt wait ot see buckethead, etc.

Its going to come down to the material. If its good peopel will but, gnr will be popular again. As popular as the old. Of course not. It all hinders on the music.....

So you discovered Black Sabbath had an album out, then decided not to buy it because Ozzy had left?

I mentioned discovering a band's new material for the first time after certain members had left. Not discovering their old material first.




/jarmo

But people who discovered the old band first, aren't the people I'm talking about.

So how often have you bought a new album, and then realized they had changed members and gotten pissed off?

I got "Songs For The Deaf" by QOTSA a few years back. Did it bother me that Josh Homme was the only one who played on their debut album? No.... I realized that afterwards.




/jarmo

What Jarmo says works if its the first time your listening to the band cuz you simply dont know who the hell are the members,etc and probably dont care that much either.
Obviously if you know about the band and know that some original members are gone you might be either not interested or try and investigate more about the new cd before just rushing and buying. Either way if the music is good people will buy, some people will need more convincing than others but thats the way its gonna be.

This is regardless if you consider this new band gnr or not, if the music is good and you dont buy cuz you dont like Axl or whatever decision he made then its your loss... same thing if you didnt buy Contraband cuz you didnt like Slash or Duff opinion, its childish, lame and quite frankly pathetic!

I did buy contraband the first day. So I will remove myself from that select group.

I think it depends who left. Axl is still the personification of the band as perceived by the general population. With talented replacements for slash, people will still have an interest in the new guys, especially if the new music is good. I don't think if Axl left and the other guys went on, it could succeed.

But why worry about this? If anything is working against axl, it's time. The longer that these delays go on, the fewer thepeople who will retain an interest in the old music and the fewer the number of knowledgable younger fans to replace them.

thats exactly why i tried to say, fuck if its "your loss" not everyone is gonna like it, but unfortunately theres nothing we can do because Axl never gave a fuck!

I just think its stupid to take sides, GNR will never be the same as it was unless the moon turned blue and you know the rest.... but to cry a river is even lamer.

I disagree. Guns N' Roses was indentified by Axl Rose and Slash for the general public. Fans like me will buy Axl's new album, although Slash was my favourite member, but Axl is my favourite singer. But softcore fans, like some of my friends, sees a different Axl Rose with a gothic guy, a punk, a YMCA guy, a fisherman and 2 rock 'n' roll guys. And the whole world knows who Slash is, but hardly anyone knows who Finck or BH is. Aerosmith was a complete shit without Joe Perry. Imagine Queen without Brian May, Led Zep without Jimmy Page etc. Softcore GN'R fans don't care if Izzy and Duff is still in the band, 'cause maybe they have never known their names. But not to know Slash? It's a joke. Even those people who hated Guns N' Roses knew Axl and Slash. Slash is not a nobody like John5 or Robin Finck who can be in or out of the band and nobody cares. So you are really missing this one.
The little kids who didn't hear Guns N' Roses live don't really find it interesting - maybe with a strong campaign GN'R can be successful again, but Axl has to win millions of new fans to replace the old ones. On the other hand: don't forget that one of the main factors of Axl's success was his sexepil: imagine the 2002 Axl Rose as a sex symbol! No way.

Totally agree with you Mikkamakka,

Couldnt agree more, guns `chinese democracy starts now ` world tour failure was a big wake up call for axl.
People wanted to see GUNS N ROSES , not axl rose and co, and thats the plain n simple reason why that tour didnt sell and was a massive embaressment.

GNR were an untouchable force in music, well, up untill TSI anyway, after that it fell apart and didnt recover and probably wont for a loooooong time.

The only way for AXL to succeed in what hes trying to do is change the name of the band, pure and simple, without doing that hes deemed to fail.
GNR were a family, u cant change your family no matter who u are, u cant tell someone that what theve got is not what it actually is.
Unless you are stupid and weak minded.

I think in some ways you contradicted yourself. Axl was seen as a huge sex symbol which is why so many bandwagon fans jumped on board. I don't dispute that music fans saw this as a Slash n Axl sideshow, but to sell as much as they did requires teenage boys and girls to buy these albums. Girls bought the albums because of Axl.

Will that happen now? no. The music has to step and be a certain level to win people back. The tour didn't fail because it was only axl. There was no album or single to generate people's interest. For any band to go on an arena tour after nearly ten years out of the spotlight and nothing to promote is a tough tough sell. So don't jump to any conclusions.

Tell that to the people in Europe.

Just because it was a failure in USA, doesn't mean it was the same in the rest of the world.

GN'R sold out in London, UK and the festivals were packed with people who weren't even fans but wanted to see GN'R anyway.



/jarmo

I live in the UK jarmo,

I know how the `tour` sold here, i mean, what do you expect, they only played a 2 - 3 places in the uk and 1 festival here, and they were small places.

The festivals are always packed no matter who is playing anyways, people go for the booze and women primarily and music 2nd place, and thats how it should be!

Well we will see and settle this disagreement when Chinese Democracy is released. Til then, this argument is simply a push.

Keep talking about the old band. The RIR4 people didn't ask the old band to headline.

MTV didn't ask the old band to close the 2002 VMAs.

You could also say that VR are selling albums thanks to interest in the old band. But you'd never admit that.



/jarmo

True, but the old band haven't been reclusive since the Spaghetti Incident either.

why do you assume people won't admit it? Of course that's a big reason why they've sold albums. It's not the only reason, but it is a big one.

so how about we agree on this:

the current guns n roses is/will be largely fueled initially (ie: until they release an album and allow time for fans to listen to it and come to a decision)by interest in what the old band was (the old band includes axl, who is in the new band)

similarly, interest in velvet revolver has largely been fueled by the same reasons.

sound fair?

any band that was huge and has spin off type bands will always have to credit their new success with their old ties..

Goes for vr, tommy, dizzy, adler's appetite, etc..

Wrong. I do admit that.  It's alot easier to be looked upon when you are not locked in a closet.

Wow, I never thought you'd admit that people bought Contraband because they liked GN'R and not because it's the best thing ever released.


Would you admit that there's a certain mystery regarding the Axl Rose persona that might interest people and it's not only about the old band?




/jarmo

Would you admit that there's a certain mystery regarding the Axl Rose persona that might interest people and it's not only about the old band?

Without a doubt Jarmo, mystery is a big part of axl's attraction.. He could be a little less mysterious after all this waiting... Also a big attraction for me is what cd will be like, it's been like waiting forever, you can't help but be excited..

It's like the worlds biggest rock star disappeared like a fart in the wind ,you just wonder what he will bring to the table. It's definetly a rollercoaster..

Aint you a rude motherfucker :hihi:
Give the guys some credit man :-\
Robin Finck is my favourite n' is 10 times better then Slash, just 'cause he doesnt have a trademark to suit your likings doesnt mean he cant cut it. But i know thats not what your sayin', once upon a time i thought like you do but thats totaly bullshit, i still am a Slash fan but no way near as i was 5 years ago, just remember the reason your hero is'nt there anymore is because he chose not to be, hence it's he's fault. Hence bring on the new guy : ok:

Richard Fortus n' Robin Finck are the best thing that happend to GNR : ok: : ok:

you are weak minded, because you just cant let go of somethin' that once was, that's the people who were in the band n' have now long since been gone, you cry phaseONE 'cause you want them back, if you hero(s) are so cool why did they leave, thats what im pissed off about, and if you dont like it you should have left with em', thats not Axl's fault and i thank him for not giving up like they did. Being the last man standing (with the exception of Dizzy), he's about to pull it all off and the world will be up to date n' rockin' with the new GNR n' the new album...n' you'll be stuck in good ol' 87/91' still goin' 'it's nothin' without Slash'.

Just give it up phaseONE, it's all over buddy : ok:

W. Axl Rose
Robin Finck
Tommy Stinson
Richard Fortus
Dizzy Reed
Chris Pittman
Brain
take it or leave it....for good!!!!

I don't wanna be a asshole, but isn't all this little bit Offfftopic ?? ??

 :rofl:

Funniest post ever. Robin Finck is a real nobody. He was a nobody when played in the NIN touring band, and he's a nobody in Nu-GN'R. He can1t even play guitar, he's the second worst guitar player who has ever played in GN'R (1. is Paul Tobias). Guitar magazines don'r know shit aboot this talentless, out-of-key, 'I don't know how to bend' guy. He's better than Slash?  :rofl: The fact that Slash doesn't play with Axl and his 'vision band' anymore doesn't make me love less his GN'R and post-GN'R works. Face it, Robin Finck isn't talented at all, you can like his look or photos, but his guitar playing? Nope.

Remember when Guitar magazines wrote about Gilby back in 1992? Do you have an idea why they'd write about Gilby who was quite unknown before 1992?




/jarmo

Do you play guitar?

Hmmm, that sounds like your boy Axl keeping the SAME NAME.? Maybe he can't let go of the trademark name that keeps him in the spotlight.? The name of a band that once was.? Maybe Axl is weak minded and can't be recognized as a solo artist or a frontman for a new band.? Cause GN'R aint alive, cuz.

For only 14 years.

Why does Axl have to be a sex symbol again? DOes Axl even care if hes a sex symbol again? Its obivious Axl doesnt care about what peopel think these days. Hes soley focused on one thing...MUSIC. Thats all the guy seems to care about by all accounts. ALl we hear is how focused and determind he is. the only thing you said rigt in your post is that GNR will have to attract new fans. And thats correct. GNR cant and prob wont depend soley on their old fans. New fans = a better gnr. The old fans will be there if the material is good.


Or maybe GNR will be stronger than ever. In Axls mind GNR hasnt ended. Take it or leave it. Peopel like you are still around so I guess your atleast curious. ANd for that, Uncle Axl has done his job during this null time period.

Dee Snider's a washed up has-been-wannabe, so long for his comments on Axl...

Great then. Have a crack at "The Blues" and get back to me.