Here Today... Gone To Hell!

GUNS N' ROSES and current VELVET REVOLVER bassist Duff McKagan explained that despite perceptions to the contrary, mercurial frontman Axl Rose was not the sole creative force behind GUNS N' ROSES.

"Axl made it an Axl thing, but it really wasn't," McKagan said. "He never wrote any of the music. That was part of the reason it broke up, because we'd play shows and he'd say, 'Here's a song I wrote about . . .' and it would be a song he had nothing to do with."

Rose has yet to finish a long-promised GUNS N' ROSES album with an ever-changing lineup of musicians, even as his former bandmates have successfully launched a new project.

"I'm not knocking him," McKagan said. "We did go through a lot together, and we accomplished a lot together back then.

"But this is now. And we're having a great time. We hope to do this until we can't do it no more."


http://www.nola.com/entertainment/t-p/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1097821887180630.xml

Axl's freaks are gonna kill Duff for that one ! :rofl:

what a sad old punk.

maybe the whole lawsuit stuff, doesn't go that well for duff'n'slash...

Axl is so intelligent and talented that he taught Slash how to play guitar and find good riffs. He also taught Duff how to play bass-guitar... Didn't he, you Axl's freaks ? Well, nevermind... :rofl:

P.S.: Axl is older than Duff...

No, but he can play the piano, and create melodies like November Rain-> slash matt and duff have said they thought November rain sucked because it had flutes and piano ...A person doesnt need to know how to play the all the instruments in order to create a melody, Of course slash and duff wrote a lot of it, but saying he never wrote the music for all of the songs is laughable.

From another thread I commented on. See what I mean about some people who have to turn the whole point of the original thread into some kind of personal attack against a person or people? Why bother even posting on here with that?

Blah blah blah.....

This is so many years ago...

I remenber that Izzy said something about Slash and Duff was so wasted when GNR was hot...

Even Duff had said that he couldnt remember that many things from that period...

So give me a break here...

well I guess it's true in some sence. but Im pretty sure Axl wrote a lot of melodies, plus he did write some songs on his piano. but the other guys made most of the music, so yeah.

It amazes me that Duff, Matt and Slash keep insisting they want to move on and concentrate on VR alone yet every day there is another article or news item with them bashing Axl. Axl must have really pissed them off? :hihi: I also thought Duff said he would never slag Axl off. Seems to me that he does it every other day. I'm pretty sure someone showed me an article in a british lads mag (Nuts or Zoo, can't remember which one) where Duff called Axl an 'asshole'. I'll try to look it out for an accurate quote.

I haven't heard about that, please find the source.

Unbelievable!!!!!

Ive lost respect for Duff for saying that pack of lies  :rant:

This is getting so ridiculous I don't even know what to say. Maybe I should stop reading interviews, it depresses the hell out of me that they could all stoop so low  :no:

Well, it might be true for the AFD and GNR Lies albums. Because, as we all know, Izzy wrote most of the stuff on there. Nothing on AFD was written by Axl himself.

But.............. Axl did prove to be able to write fantastic songs, like November Rain and Estranged, 2 of GNR's best (songs)ballads. Also there were more tracks on UYI that he wrote alone, maybe not always their best, but still good. But the fact that he did write Estranged makes him UBER credible and is THE reason for DUff to shut up. I think, as much as I love Duff, he should stop talkin' about Axl or GNR. He's a cool guy but they should stop the bullshit. Axl hasn't commented on anything they did, he didn't say how crappy VR is or stuff like that.

let it go. But probably Axl did something really nasty, otherwise this shit wouldn;t be going on

So do I ... I'm enjoying VR I'm still on the VR's wave since their gig in Paris in september but when you read things that so low, you tend to get back to earth pretty quickly.  :-\

Ok everyone take a step back.

the truth is the truth.

piano parts in NR,Estranged,Breakdown,Civil War,

Dead Horse, One In a Million


really besides some extras on the piano during songs Axl didnt write any GNR music.

SLash and Izzy wrote the majority of guitar parts so i dont understand why everyone is so angered by this.

do people really believe axl made those riffs and solo's up? 

Im one of the biggest axl nuttswingers alive but the old band must get their due credit.

However this means axl has nowhere near peaked as a songwriter yet which makes CD even more interesting.

Lol I Like you D but you're kidding right ?  ;D
Axl is the melodist, that's what a song is about ! Of course riffs and bass and drums parts are also important. I will never say that Slash or Duff never wrote any music in GNR. I know Axl didn't compose the killer riffs, or the bass or the drums not even all the melodies (but he did great ones)... but working together I thought that's what a band was about...  ;)

Also, when you say "here's a song I wrote about....", you're obviously talking about lyrics, and most of them were written by Axl. Instrumentation can hardly be about something, duh....

exactly, its like scott weiland, he doesnt know how to play the guitar very well either, like axl , he creates the melody and then the rest of the band ads their own thing that fits in the song. the core of the song is the melody if you ask me.  :P

I am not saying I don't believe duff but I find one thing really odd. On the songs Axl is crediterd for writing alone (your november rains, shotgun blues, estranged etc.) if he didn't write any music why is he the lone person credited? I mean considering royalties and everything if Axl just wrote the lyrics wouldn't the band members who wrote the music want their due credit. I think a possible explanation for this might be something like Axl never wrote any riffs or anything like that but did alot of arrangements. Maybe that's what duff meant. But even that doesn't explain the songs where he is solely credited as having written.

duff:"We had gone through all that stuff with him(scott), so we were really glad that he was writing his own lyrics," McKagan said. "He insists upon it, which is great, because that is his instrument. The guy's such a masterful melody writer, and his lyrics are clever.''


I guess in a couple of years if VR breaks up they'll say Scott never wrote the music? ::)

I am not saying I don't believe Duff but one thing doesn't make sense to me. On the songs like NR, estranged, shotgun blues where Axl is credited as the lone song writer. Considering royalties and everything if Axl only wrote the lyrics for those songs wouldn't the other  band members who wrote the music have wanted to be credited? Maybe Axl just did alot of arrangements and that is what Duff is referring to. It's hard for us to figure out what process they used to determine who got credit for the songwriting back then.

OK, let's count which songs' music were written by Axl: November Rain and Estranged. Maybe he came with the rough ideas of Shotgun Blues, Dead Horse and Breakdown. That's all he wrote. Not more, not less, so naming him as the main creative force of GN'R is bullshit.


It's true, yeah. I think Duff was fucked up because a lot of people think that Axl was GN'R, so his opinion was harsh about the songwriting credits.

Well Breakdown comes to my mind and I guess there are many more ...?  :)

WTF!? are you serious? that much bullshit i haven't seen ever in this board

The truth is the truth.

"Welcome To The Jungle"
 (Music: Slash, Rose / Lyrics: Rose)
"My Michelle"
 (Music: Rose, Stradlin / Lyrics: Rose)
"It's So Easy"
 (Music: McKagan, Arkeen / Lyrics: McKagan, Arkeen )

"Think About You"
 (Music: Stradlin / Lyrics: Stradlin)
"Nightrain"
 (Music: Stradlin, McKagan, Rose, Slash / Lyrics: McKagan, Rose)

 "Sweet Child O' Mine"
 (Music: Rose, Slash, Stradlin / Lyrics: Rose)
"Out Ta Get Me"
 (Music: Slash, Rose, Stradlin / Lyrics: Rose, Stradlin)
"You're Crazy"
 (Music: Slash, Stradlin, Rose / Lyrics: Rose, Stradlin)
"Anything Goes"
 (Music: Stradlin, Rose, Weber / Lyrics: Stradlin, Rose)
"Mr. Brownstone"
 (Music: Stradlin, Slash / Lyrics: Stradlin)
"Rocket Queen"
 (Music: Rose, Slash, Stradlin / Lyrics: Rose)
"Paradise City"
 (Music: McKagan, Slash, Rose, Stradlin / Lyrics: Rose, McKagan)

music: izzy : 10 axl: 9 ,  slash: 8
lyrics  Axl : 9, Izzy 7, McKagan: 3

total: axl 19 credits, Izzy 17 ...

"Right Next Door To Hell"
 (Stradlin / Caltia / Rose)

"Double Talkin' Jive"
 (Stradlin)
"Dust N' Bones"
 (Stradlin / McKagan / Slash)
"November Rain"
 (Rose)
"The Garden"
 (Arkeen / James / Rose)
"Garden Of Eden"
 (Slash / Rose)
"Perfect Crime"
 (Stradlin / Slash / Rose)
"Don't Damn Me"
 (Slash / Lank / Rose)
"You Ain't The First"
 (Stradlin)
"Bad Apples"
 (Slash / McKagan / Stradlin / Rose)
"Back Off Bitch"
 (Huge / Rose)
"Dead Horse"
 (Rose)
"Bad Obsession"
 (Stradlin / Arkeen)
"Coma"
 (Slash / Rose)
"Don't Cry (Original)"
 (Stradlin / Rose)
"Civil War"
 (Slash / McKagan / Rose)
"Pretty Tied Up (The Perils Of Rock N' Roll Decadence)"
 (Stradlin)
"14 Years "
 (Stradlin / Rose)
"Yesterdays"
 (Arkeen / James / McCloud / Rose)
"Locomotive (Complicity)"
 (Slash / Rose)
"So Fine"
 (McKagan)
"Get In The Ring"
 (Slash / McKagan / Rose)
"Estranged"
 (Rose)
"You Could Be Mine"
 (Stradlin / Rose)
"Shotgun Blues"
 (Rose)
"Don't Cry (Alt. Lyrics)"
 (Stradlin / Rose)
"Breakdown"
(Rose)
"My World"
 (Rose)


axl's name comes up 22 times and has 6 songs credited entirely to him.
Izzy's name comes up 11 times and has 3 songs credited entirely to him
Slash's name comes up 9 times and has no songs credited entirely to him

IT IS THE TRUTH RUTH !


-or are you calling Jarmo a liar ?-  :P

The only problem is it's not true. Axl always wanted the world to think he is Guns N' Roses, and thanks to his arrogance and toughness he's overcredited.

and you know this because .....???  ???

Axl wrote My Michell on his guitar, didn't he? Or he wrote it on his piano and then the others came and played Axl's music on guitar? Surely, that's the way it happened! Axl wasn't able to write any music in the early days, because he didn't play any instrument, but his piano, but he wasn't really good at all. I wonder what do you think Axl did write in the AFD songs, as well as in the Lies songs.  ??? On UYI he wrote music for 5 tracks (or 6 with the end of Locommotive) out of 30. In the other songs he wrote the lyrics and the vocal melodies.

"My Michelle"
(Music: Rose, Stradlin / Lyrics: Rose)


ON lies I would guess he wrote one in a million, duh...? I read somewhere he picked up a guitar, and even if he played like shit he was able to get the basic structure for the song, then izzy and slash brought the solo and other stuff to the table....

One has to understand that even a whistle is part of music writting...

Or maybe you think izzy slash and duff wrote the music and told axl, ''dude, sing like this and write lyrics that fit the music'' Surely, that's the way it happened! :hihi:

Take your pills and contact yor doctor! You are so Stupid!!!

Not true. Izzy wrote this song alone. It even says so in the UYI booklet. Where's Axl besides being 2nd voice in the chorus?

Puts the rest of your list in a questionable light.....still I do think Axl is a great songwriter. But I've read in many interviews and other stuff about GNR that in the early days Axl was always busy takin' care of the royalty and credits instead of the music itself.

ok, then lets count the credits on the booklet  ::) ??? I have the cds with me But not the booklets...back in the day I bought the cassettes not the cds and I dont have themwith me, we are gonna get to the bottom of this !.. :hihi: AFD doesnt have the credits...at least not mine..


PS; JARMO = MIGHT WANNA CHECK THE INFO FROM YOUR SITE? WHERE DID YOU GET IT?

Please, argue.  : ok:


I meant it's impossible that Axl added anything to My Michelle (and othe songs) musically. On the other hand in the AFD booklet they credited all songs to Rose/Slash/Stradlin'/McKagan/Adler. After Steven had been fired they realized he didn't write a note...



One has to realize that guitar solos are parts of music writing. Axl wrote the solos of NR and Estranged? Sure.

Back to One In A Million: Axl mentioned that he wrote the chorus as a joke and played something on 2 strings. But when they (mostly Axl) wanted to really make the song, Axl's 'guitar parts' weren't good at all, so Slash came with some ideas, but they felt it's not complete and then Izzy wrote the electric guitars for OIAM.

Quote from: SADIS on Today at 07:43:17am
Quote from: SON OF A PREACHER on Today at 07:21:15am
"14 Years "
 (Stradlin / Rose)


Not true. Izzy wrote this song alone. It even says so in the UYI booklet. Where's Axl besides being 2nd voice in the chorus?

Puts the rest of your list in a questionable light.....still I do think Axl is a great songwriter. But I've read in many interviews and other stuff about GNR that in the early days Axl was always busy takin' care of the royalty and credits instad of the music itself.



ok, then lets count the credits on the booklet? ? I have the cds with me But not the booklets...back in the day I bought the cassettes not the cds and I dont have themwith me, we are gonna get to the bottom of this !..? AFD doesnt have the credits...at least not mine..


PS; JARMO = MIGHT WANNA CHECK THE INFO FROM YOUR SITE? WHERE DID YOU GET IT?


actually, if you go to http://www.gnrinfo.tk it says this:

Written by: "14 Years" was written by Izzy and Axl. Izzy wrote most of the song, and Axl wrote the lyrics to the chorus.

Izzy: Axl phoned me up and said he'd written a song called "14 Years" too, which is a really bizarre coincidence. So when he said that, I told him 'Well maybe we should use mine, 'cos it's already finished and we can get on with these fuckin' albums and get them out sometime in 1991!' So what we ended up doing was he heard mine, we tracked it, then he sang me parts of his song and made them like a bridge or a chorus or something.

just thought that might help!? ?: ok:

hoke doke, back to lurker world for me. BYE!? ;D

The debate in this thread is kinda funny.? The simple fact is Duff asserts that Axl never wrote ANY of the music.? Not didn't write much, not only wrote a little, didn't write any.? That, as we all know, is complete bullshit.? Did he write as much as he's credited for? Maybe not.? However, did he "inspire" the creative process with either lyrics or piano melodies?? Probably.

And for those of you who say he couldn't have "written" anything in the Appetite era because all he could play was piano....C'mon.? Maybe he couldn't have composed the entire song (which is why EVERYONE gets credit), but do you seriously think he couldn't fucking hum or sing a tune that would get the point accross of what he was thinking?? And then the other guys run with it from there?? I mean, it may not be ACTULLY? semantically "writing" the musich, but is sure should be considered part of creating it.

why is it so impossible ? a guitar is an instrument that creates a melody, a voice is also an instrument that creates a melody as well....I mean isn't it possible that axl said ''ok around minute 1: 05 what if we go faster and lift the tempo, and I go ....well well well you just cant tell well well well my michelle really fast with this particular melody ??'' or something...isn't that music writting??


I dont know how to play the guitar but I can create a pretty cool solo in my head right now, Jim Morrison used to sing guitar solos.... and he didnt know how to play a single instrument, he was a poet, and if you look at the movie, he picks up the music from the other guys and makes it his own and changes it to sound different and cool, then the other guys adapt. Its a collaboration. To say Axl had no saying whatsoever on the music is way too drastic for me to believe it.


WOAH Im gonna have a headache with all those quotes...

that's what Im talking about. : ok:

If I write a song with one of my friends, and all I do is play the chords he's looking for and he makes up the singing melody, then in my humble opinion; he wrote the song!

Even if he can't play an instrument; he still wrote the song. All I did was supply him with the chords he's looking for. He may have not written the music but he did write the song. Unless I direct him lyricswise and melodywise or otherwise;then I co-wrote the song. So if Izzy is jammin and playin some chords and Axl starts singing a melody, Axl has written the song (maybe even more) as much as Izzy...... so even if he didn't write the killer guitar melody it still can be he influenced Slash to write his melody....because even if Slash's solo is ultimate on NR, it wouldn't have been there if Axl hadn't written the song itself. So wrote the song; Axl.

On the UYI 2 booklet, at the end of the "Estranged" lyrics you can read this : "Slash, thanks for the killer melodies". It says it all...  but the song is only credited to Mr Rose !
And if there is no "only Slash" credited song, it's because he didn't write lyrics !

Anyway, Axl learned from Slash and was "pushed" by him at least as much as Slash learned from Axl : that is called the dynamics working inside a band. When there are no dynamics (like in newgnr) then you don't have a band but just a guy playing music with a bunch of employees... It does not work...
Are Finck or Stinson pushing Axl ? Of course not. They are doing and saying what Axl tells them to do (and say).

If I'm not wrong, in a interview with Axl regarding the illusions album, he says that he brought like 2 records worth of material/songs, Izzy 1 record, Duff 1 fucking song, Slash I don't remember. Of course they didn't use all that but anyway.

Whether or not Duff is talking out of his boney arse, two good things may come out of all this:

1. It makes Axl even more determined to finish and release Chinese Democracy
2. Some great rants on the next tour!

Uh ya duff, and the reason why axl got like 40% of the songwriting royalty's off of appetite is because he didn't write anything??!! WTF

Ever heard of a thing called MELODY... the key to whether a song is good or not?? not to mention the lyrics.

Ya he probably didn't write the actual guitar riff.... but he did direct people where to go i.e Sweet Child O mine main riff.... which slash thought was a joke, and axl told him to keep.... the song that made it so that there all not dead or jail right now.

Fuck off duff and go write a song

My UYI2 booklet says "14 Years" was written by Stradlin / Rose.



Just because you don't play guitar, doesn't mean you can't write a melody.

Maybe Axl came up with a chorus or something for "My Michele" and told the guys to play it that way because it fit with the lyrics?


I don't know, seems weird to me that Duff would say Axl didn't write anything. Then again, Axl says they were jealous because he got recognized at airports and they didn't.

Doesn't look like they've moved on.....



/jarmo

No.....

Izzy and Axl both wrote a song called 14 years, Izzy's was finished first so they used his song but the bridge was written by Axl from his version

Izzy: Axl phoned me up and said he'd written a song called "14 Years" too, which is a really bizarre coincidence. So when he said that, I told him 'Well maybe we should use mine, 'cos it's already finished and we can get on with these fuckin' albums and get them out sometime in 1991!' So what we ended up doing was he heard mine, we tracked it, then he sang me parts of his song and made them like a bridge or a chorus or something.

If Duff and Slash have moved on why do they keep needing to bad mouth Axl? In the past their side of the story has always seemed more convincing - but over the last 2 years i think its been shown Axl is alot more honest that we could ever have thought.

I hadn't read that quote before, thanks Izzy!  I think we all know wrote a lot of lyrics, at least on the UYI albums, and melody lines. 

Ali

Axl brought the guys down in 2002 (I'm thinking about the Albany show), now they're bringing him down. I don't see anything surprising. Even though in this case, this is obviously not true that Axl didn't write "any of the music". This kind of comment is really useless.

Of coiurse axl worte alot of songs ,some alone, some with others, who knows about instrumental parts.. It's so long ago though that I don't care..

I don't evenm know why duff is talking about this stuff..

I don't know why either.  There sure seems to be a lot of lingering bitterness and hostility on BOTH sides.  Also, I think these comments do undermine the assertion that the former GN'R members in VR are trying to move forward, and away from GN'R.

Ali

If anyone needs me, I will be in the Velvet Revolver section. 

How does that add anything to the discussion?

SORRY - EDIT

Riffs like SCOM, Brownstone, Jungle, etc. where not composed by Rose.  Everyone knows that Axl is a great song writer, but he didn't make up most of the great MUSIC (not vocals).  Obviously, he did for November Rain and a few others.  My point is who cares?  When Axl and the old band meshed their skills together, they are better than Velvet Revolver AND the new GNR.

NOW, if anyone needs me, I will be in the Velvet Revolver section

I think its pretty clear that Duff's head has been 'severly altered' by all the drugs and booze. What he has said is either a lie, a total lapse in memory, or a publicity stunt to get some headlines at Axl's expense. It 'could' also be the truth....but pigs 'could' also fly, i think its stupid to even try to start to believe hes saying the truth let alone stand behind that statement as some on the board have done.

Its very sad for Duff to try and diminish Axl's legacy, the guy who according to all the facts available (i.e. credits) was the main creative force behind GnR alas not the only one.

As MikkaMaka said, the truth is the truth.......and no statement a junkie makes can change that!!!

SON OF A PREACHER is Axl :P


Seriously, why did duff make this statement now? 

Does the pending lawsuit have anything to do with it? 

I just don't see the point of saying this now ???

Yea but there is a difference between what Axl said,and what these guys say....Axl said they didn't want to record songs like Patience,Estranged....And said they can suck his dick....But he has never said they didn't wright any Guns material.

True, that's why I added: "Even though in this case, this is obviously not true that Axl didn't write "any of the music". This kind of comment is really useless."

I know for a fact that Axl wrote the guitar part for one in a million, so there's Duff's idea blown away already. I'd find it very difficult to believe that Axl could pick up nearly 40% of the royalties for purely writing lyrics, especially when the system was devised by Slash.

Yeah, they(Duff&Slash) always say theyre  happy to be in VR and its the biggest thing that ever happen... and Blah Blah...

I think, they want to promote themselves with talking about Axl...

This is so cheap...

I think it's all about how we define 'writing music' and words are being used too losely here. Duff made a passing comment that probably had some venom (sp?) in it and bitterness towards what he views Axl hsa done to the band. There is nearly always jealousy in a band of the lead singer. They do get all the attention, and other band members may well feel less valued, even thought they ultimately have as much to do with the band's success as the singer.

Music can be defined as the whole song, or can be used to define the backing music to which vocals/melody are put on top, so it is important we consider which definition duff is using (I imagine he was referring to the latter)

Also music writing, in terms of crediting, is only concerned with who wrote the chord progression and melody/lyrics. I could play an arrangement of a song that sounds completely different, but that would still be considered the same song. So that explains, whether you agree with it or not (as I don't), why Axl is solely credited for the songs he is. He would've wrote the chord progression and melody/lyrics and showed that to the band. The band then would've probably written their guitar parts using axl's framework. In my opinion they are still contributing to the song. Get another set of musicians in and u will have a copmletely diff song - imagine Axl giving the song to a pop princess of today, or a boy band. It would still be axl's song but nowhere near as good!!!!!

It is sad to see both parties not valueing the contribution of the other to their success. A band at the end of the day is MUCH MORE than the sum of its parts. It has emergent properties that the individuals alone will never achieve. A very good point was made about the new band not having that band dynamic, i/e/ not being able to push axl.

I'm also sure thought that Axl was a great shaper of songs (sweet child), he worked well with them and bettered their ideas. He obv also influenced their work. But can understand that they feel bitter, cuz I dont think hes ever truly acknowledged their value. Without them he would never have been after all.

So with this in mind I think Duff has exaggerated in what he has said. He appears to me to feel cheated of credit, because public perseption is such that Axl was the driving force and main contributer. We don't know for sure whether or not that is true. He probably feels that Axl was credited too much, or that he wrote only "a little" of the music.

Someone here said a truth is a truth is a truth, but I would argue that is not the case. It is only a truth when viewed from someones viewpoint. Step out of their shoes for a second and consider the other side. That is why both parties view their version as 'the truth'. That is the way of the world, it is not at all black and white, nor that simple.

I hope that gives some food for thought and more discussions. Sorry for the ramble, but that was all in my head for ages! lol I want to know what other ppl think?.....

The worse part of this is someone that is a big fan of VR might read this and really beleive it since maybe there not that big of a fan GN'R! I just wonder if some of this shit is made up by the stupid press! >:(

I know ive wrote too much already, but...  ::)

I want to re-iterate the thing I said about Axl being the driving force? I suspect he was in many ways. And I expect he listened' and had a good ear for what is 'working' and not (musically and otherwise). There is a lot more to just writing the music including delivery and attack, arrangements (if we move this bridge here, does it add to tyhe song? or, let's half this last verse so we get straight to the chorus) - all still music focused. And others realting to management that u lot can think of:

Maybe we should have another thread about this kind of thing?

Anyway, I just feel that this kind of quality in a person is rarely acknowledged either (a great eg is the one where axl took inspiration from the sweet child riff and knew it had potential - thats a quality in itself). And that's exactly what duff has done.

WoW....Can't wait until Dave and Younggunner see this. We should get the continual litany of Slash/Duff being assholes and liars, not having NR and estranged without Axl, Slash not wanting to work, VR fans being hypocrites, new GNR being more of a band....the usual suspects when getting into this argument.


This is nothing more than gamesmanship on Duff's part. Its almost like he is poking at Axl to do something or retaliate in somehow. A Guns comeback is nothing but good for VR in a certain sense, so I think he is just trying to goad him into saying something back or releasing some music. If he continues to sit in his house and do nothing he looks like a chump, as they are basically calling him out right now. He needs to release that album so we can make a valid comparison as to who really has succeeded better without the other.

...i'm sorry, here i go again boring you all, but...  ::) ::)

I totally (almost) agree with this - the press certainly manipulate the truth to make it look worse than it is. The headline is much worse than when u put the wuote in its context.

For any of those who dont think Axl can write lyrics now that Slash, Duff and Izzy r gone...just listen to The Blues..It's one of the most amazing songs lyrically ive ever heard...Axl rocks

So? Riffs are one component of a song, not the only one, and not always the main one. If you take SCOM for example, I would bet that the vocal melody is as much a reason for the success of the song as the riff.

Looks like duff still on roofis.

Lay off the pipe Duff..

The lyrics on those are great, but until the end of time it is the riffs in those songs that will always be remembered.

Wow duff lying once again and now he is sayingn axl didnt write any of the music. This is getting lame.
Here is anold interview from the AFD days i think. Its really sad that Slash and Duff keep bring up Axl. Its like move on already, you guys quit the band in 96.


http://home.swipnet.se/~w-52838/songinfo.html

Maybe Axl should fire back instead of being a bitch and just taking it. They have been slagging on him for a while now with a continued lack of response, it makes him look like he's getting punked.

Yeah but the second he does that people like you and the same usual suspects will bash axl for talking shit about the old guys. Remember when Axl fired back about izzy, duff and slash on the 2002 tour? some of  you bashed axl and said he shouldnt talk about the old guys during the live shows or interviews. So once again no matter what axl does, ignores what  duff and slash are saying about him or says stuff back, you guys still bash him for him doing the opposite.

Axl is best just not saying anything, he has the old interviews and such that proves that he wrote some of the music for the old songs, so that alone makes duff look like an ass.

maybe he was mis-quoted, they say these journalists are wrong all the time! Trying to stir shit! :-\

There is a difference between ranting about the old guys at concerts without being prodded, and being interviewed and having an interviewer bring it up. It would be one thing if Duff had just released a press release out of no where about this, but I am sure it was within the context of an interview the topic came up. People were slagging on him because at concerts and his press releases he harps on the old guys with no necessity to do so, its not like he's sitting there being interviewed for a magazine or TV show. When he talks about them in his little press releases he just looks obsessed because its not like he is being asked about them. Just my opinion, but people would be more understanding around here i think if all of his stuff came up in interviews like Duff/Slash rather than at a concert where no one gives 2 shits about them and you can tell he is still stewing about it.

Could you please post a link to a recent press release by Axl/ GN'R's management where he "talks about them" about something that is not court related? Thanks.

Like talent was skill, for Duff music is guitars?  :-\

Unfortunate for him, Vocal melodies carry the Subject of songs in most case. The subject is the most distinctive part in music, which people usually value and remember more than any other parts.

Judging from this gaffe, the situation of lawsuit over GNR partnership is not in favour of them. Well, good luck.

To the people that think Duff really said Axl didnt wrote ANY of the music you must be pretty dumb, he either meant Axl didnt wrote as much as he got credited for or he was just simply misquoted.
Not even Duff would believe that!  : ok:

And you know this how?

From old quotes of the band and what they said back then and what they are claiming now.

Slash wrote the melodies on guitar. with the exception of the ballads Axl simply wrote the lyrics. Sounds really simple to me

If Slash wrote the melodies, what did Izzy write?




/jarmo

That statement is not true, just read through old interviews they say the opposite, unless you were really there when they wrote the songs, where you?

This is slashs forumal btw for AFD


Welcome to the Jungle -? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? Music :? Slash, Rose? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? Lyrics :? Rose? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

It's So Easy -? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? Music :? McKagan, Arkeen? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? Lyrics :? McKagan, Arkeen? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Nightrain -? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

? Music :? Stradlin', McKagan, Rose, Slash
? Lyrics :? McKagan, Rose

Out Ta Get Me -

? Music :? Slash, Rose, Stradlin'?
? Lyrics :? Rose, Stradlin'

Mr. Brownstone -

? Music :? Stradlin', Slash
? Lyrics :? Stradlin'

Paradise City -

? Music :? McKagan, Slash, Rose, Stradlin'
? Lyrics :? Rose, McKagan

My Michelle -

? Music :? Rose, Stradlin'
? Lyrics :? Rose

Think About You -

? Music :? Stradlin'
? Lyrics :? Stradlin'

Sweet Child O' Mine -

? Music :? Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
? Lyrics :? Rose

You're Crazy -

? Music : Slash, Stradlin', Rose
? Lyrics : Rose, Stradlin'

Anything Goes -

? Music :? Stradlin', Rose, Webber
? Lyrics :? Stradlin', Rose

Rocket Queen -

? Music :? Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
? Lyrics :? Rose

maybe Duff is saying that Axl insisted that his name be included in the credits even if he wrote nothing but the lyrics to a particular song. Knowing Axl its very likely

So Duff wants publicity for his very very average Velvet Revolver.

So Fine - So Sad.

You cant say that.? That proves that axl wrote music to the songs that duff is not claiming he didnt. For 15 years nothing has ever been said, and now duff is claiming he didnt? Well duff is flat out lying since in the past he was singing a different tune.

NoNoNO,just read rollingstone review of "apettite for destruction",and you'll see that you aren't right.Axl done the most songs of afd with slash and izzyand duff done paradise city with axl.
Duff is soo sad wuth his interviews"new band are more talented than old"-he said that new singer more talented than Axl(no fuckin way,Axl is one of the best rock singer ever)
and what izzy stradlin said in 80-s"i can't believe,but axl saw this when we started"

You mean his name shouldn't be mentioned if he only wrote the lyrics?

I think the reason is the guys in guns n' roses define who they are based on songs like it's so easy, jungle, brownstone, paradise city
not One in a million or Shotgun blues

no one said Scott is more talented then Axl. just check out the Howard Stern interview with Velvet.

Well axl helped write the music for WTTJ and PC so there ya go.
Btw gnr is more defined as who they are by scom and nov rain than its so easy, and and brownstone.

I just picture the gunners having all ready written the song then Axl taking them and adding as much little insignificant things to the song just so that he can be included in the credits.

Obviously not on every song but on a lot of them. I think that's how Axl's name appears in the AFD credits on virtually every song

and sweet child o mine,Novemeber rain, estranged

I think you'll find that the songwriting process was much more collaborative, at least if the old interviews are to be believed.  For Duff to say this proves that the bottle and the pipe have now, officially, killed too many brain cells.  He can't possibly believe it.  Maybe he was exagerating for effect and the "sarcasm" or exageration was lost in the translation to text...who knows.  But if he was really serious....man.....I almost feel sorry for him.

You would think that but like I said its slashs forumal and that is not how it works.

alright i gotta admit...fueling arguments is fun :hihi:

DUFF: If one person brings in a song to this band, it always gets raped by the other four people. It always gets changed around to where its Guns N' Roses.
March 1988, Hit Parader Magazine
so i guess everyone added something to a GnR-song.

Duff und Slash (as said before) just didn't move on. that's why they called their album "Contraband".

Contraband has a different meaning in the USA. The nationality of these Gunners. It means illegal & seized goods like drugs not "against nu-gnr"

I know what Contra means in other countries since I was born in Brazil and speak Portuguese. It means "Against"

So it's understandable that there may be misconceptions about the meaning of the title in different parts of the world lol

Hey man, maybe Axl Hose would have a responce if he wasnt locked up inside his personal hell.  Its funny how Axl is 1/5 of GN'R, but everyone wants to defend his musical skills, please gimme a break.  It's not like Duff said that Axl did'nt sing the fucking songs.  He just didn't write the music.

Yeah....



For example, "November Rain" was written before he had even met Duff and Slash, but I guess Axl didn't write the music to it.....  ::)



/jarmo

oh yeah how can we forget about that lol

he is the singer of a tiny little band called Guns N' Roses and one of the best ever at that :beer:

But he did write the music, and even slashs forumal says he did. So how can you explain that?

I don't think Duff was trying to be insulting by saying that Axl never wrote any of the music. He was just stating a fact. There's lots of musicians who can't write music. John Lennon and Paul McCartney didn't know how to read or write music, they just came up with the melodies and played everything by ear. If Axl hadn't contributed, he wouldn't have been credited on the albums.

it is clear gnr wa the sum of it's parts the problem is Axl tried to make GNR too much about himself, but thats human nature, people make mistakes. Certainly can't wish anything cruel upon him.

Hey Everyone,

When you promote a new album you do hundreds of interviews.  Duff was bound to say something controversial that would make Axl loyalist go all up in arms sooner or later.  None of us know how the song process exactly went down.  Mabey Axl did help in the music who knows, who cares.

Mabey if Axl ever releases a new album, he might do interviews to promote his album.  I am sure he will say something contraversial too.  For those keeping track, he hasn't released an album since most of you were just getting potty trained.

NOW, back to the VR section, where we had a live televised performance of FTP last night, and I got tickets for my 3rd VR concert in 6 months!

 

I'll be at the Philly show too! it'll be my 5th show :beer:

I don't know what is more embarrassing, Duff's reckless and ignorant slander or the people in this forum who are inventing ways to prove that it is true. Such statements are only meant to further divide the community which clearly it has done here; embrace the fact that Duff is wrong and move on.

Axl is getting music credit for AFD, Lies, UYI, UYII; legally, Duff's statement is wrong and he could be sued if such misstatements persist. Vocal melodies, music, solos....whatever. If you want to carp and nitpick, try to figure it out. From a legal standpoint though, the statement is erroneous.

Madagascar Duff, take a listen and hear something you'll never be able to write.

it's a shame how guns n' roses fans have to be torn apart like this.  Well you don't have to..it is possible to like both sides. but sometimes I wonder if it hurts the gunners knowing that their fanbase is in shambles. And it's all because of the misconceptions due to the lack of an explanation of what really happened. It sucks that they gotta keep a lid on everything because the court says so.

You dont have to play guitar to write a? music melody. You can hum, whistle, write it on piano or anything like that.? Music is music, it doesnt have to be written on guitar to be credited as music. Duff and slash over the past year have really made themselves look like asses. With this comment by duff and slashs imfamous remark that axl only has a few vocal tracks done for CD.

maybe to you they do but I see this as simply good publicity or like someone else said, trying to piss off Axl to further promote Velvet Revolver or it could very easily be the typical interview where the interviewer takes something that is said out of context and uses it as a shocking headline and therefore sells a lot more magazines.

how else can you explain why duff was quite for so long and only now that VR is formed he talks about the breakup.

If you look at his interviews pre-VR you see that he always respected Axl and admitted that they all had big egos. Yes, him and Slash too.

To me it makes slash and duff look bad because they stil cant get over they left guns n roses.
Just wait til CD drops ,and if CD is huge then slash and duff will be taking more shots at Axl esp if CD is vastly superior to contraband.

What difference does any of this make anyway? 6 months from now we will still have no CD, Slash/Duff and the guys will still be doing there thing, and we will all still be sitting on the GNR board bitching at eachother and talking about how the album absolutley has to come out by so and so, because so & so says its almost done. It has been the same pattern for years now, and we all just let ourselves keep falling into it. This time last year we thought it was a slam dunk we'd have CD because of Rio, and that imploded. It is a viscous circle that never ends...and we just continue to let this drama suck us in.

Don't be sucked in bro. a lot of people have already given up. I was once hopeful to but I moved on to better things. If it ever comes out great but I no longer am anxiously awaiting it.

To you it might make them look stupid, but to the average person reading it you have Duff saying Axl never accomplished anything without them, and proof of that to the reader is his inability to release anything in 10 years without them. Meanwhile Slash/Duff have had a #1 album since then. An average reader is going to surmise what they are saying is true. Dedicated Guns fans no better, but to the average fan who only knows what little they see in the headlines, his story seems awfully viable given the pathetic state of guns and the success of VR. Not that that won't all change if an album ever comes out, but as it stands Axl looks like a chump.

When I say we get sucked in, I mean the GNR community of fans, not me personally.

I think there is a lot of jalousy toward Axl because he is the most brillant member of GN'R. I think Duff is very likely to be jalous of Axl. ("am I wood?"), remember...

Axl hasnt moved on either dude, he still ranted about them, still hasnt released anything since the break up, still played old material mostly, I just dont see how he has moved on. So dont say Slash and Duff havent move on while Axl hasnt either. They will never really move on from GNR because it was to strong. They all know it they just wont accept it.

I still like the old members even though Duff looks as old as dirt.  Anyway Axl used to write lyrics on pizza boxes, of course he had a part in the song writing.

when axl says he wrote it he means the lyrics though, right?

im not sayin he didnt write any music but on afd unless he hummed a riff or something i dont see where any of u have an argument.


i think Duff meant music as in guitars,bass,solo's,drums etc


so by some of you guys logic, axl started singing SCOM and that made slash play the classic openin riff?

when writing a song, a lot of times the vocal melody comes out of the music thats being played.

the band jam on a riff or a piece of music, the singer finds his key and sings over the music, so most of the time *not all of the time* but most of the time the melodies are born out of the music.


Duff is wrong sayin he didnt write any music but lets be serious for a moment, if any of u think axl had a guitar creating all of izzy and slash's riffs and solo's u obviously need to check into a very good rehab center.

lets not undermine the historic contribution of the old band because of our loyalty to axl.


im gonna tell u something right now and me being the huge axl fan i am, it pains me to say this, but the facts are the facts.

If W. Axl Rose had joined the bulletboys instead of getting with slash,izzy and co. i guarantee we wouldnt be here discussing Axl and Chinese Democracy today.

Right!!!

Axl's smartest move would be not to answer to this. What Duff said is pretty laughable imo.

"Firstly, all of Axl's music credits on AFD are for vocal melodies.  Aside from vocal melodies, Axl didn't write any music on AFD.  Vocal melodies are 25% of the writing credit.  So add that to the lyrics (Axl wrote about half the lyrics on AFD), and that's why he got so much writing credit for AFD.  I think it was 36% or something.

However, as many people have mentioned, he did write acoustic guitar and piano music for various songs.  So Duff is incorrect by stating Axl NEVER wrote music."

That's about it.

The most difficult thing to understand about this and other negative comments about Axl that have come from Duff is why the guy sounds so bitter?  He's a member of a famous and commerically successful band and yet he feels the need to regularly slam Axl with accusations that don't seem to hold any water.  I like Duff better back in the day when he was wasted during his interviews.  He sounds old and bitter now.

Could somebody who knows their GN'R bootlegs come up with an example of when Axl has said something like that?

I know he introduced songs with "We wrote this song.....", "This song is about...." and things like that. But did he ever say "I wrote this song..." about a song he wasn't credited for? For example "So Fine" or "Mr Brownstone"?



/jarmo

So he wrote most of the lirycs,the melodies,some acoustic guitar and piano parts,so what the fuck's the problem?? What was he suppose to do,write Slash's riffs? If I remember correctly,on the Illusions albums he has about 49% of the credits.

Duff should shut the fuck up,he's just a bass player,and he's no John Deacon.The vast majority of casual GNR fans don't know and don't need to know anyone but Axl and Slash,and Izzy was important too,but Velvet Revolver suddenly made him a fuckin star

There's not much of an argument here. The discussion is about Duff's claim that Axl wrote no music at all.

That's bullshit, everyone here knows it's bullshit, so there is no need to discuss exactly how much, who wrote, on which song. All I have to say is "November Rain", and I've proved Duff wrong.

As for Axl saying "I wrote this song about....". He has every right to - He wrote lyrics which were personal to him and so explains to us what he was writing them about. When you say "I wrote this song about....", you are talking about the lyrics, not the music.

Duff clearly didn't like Axl drawing attention to himself as an individual, within the band. All I can say is that Axl spent enough time on stage drawing attention to other individual members including telling the audience who wrote certain songs.

I hope this is Duff being misquoted, and not a moment of total stupidity cus I like the guy....

@#$%Funker

 

Dude, he DIDNT write the music, except the shit songs like NOVEMBER RAIN.  ESTRANGED would be crap without the amazing guitar performace by Slash (something to the thanks by Axl to Slash).

Point is Axl is not a musician, except for a horrible song or two.  Who can forget the incredible acoustic guitar chords that he plays in the beginning of Dead Horse? :crying:

you're gonna get alotta stick for saying that

So what you're saying is he did write music.  :hihi:

Priceless...

@#$%Funker

Whatever, how many of non guitarists learn all the guitar chords or all riffs on one song from GNR by heart? I guess most of you can hum whole Vocal melodies on all GNR songs. I?m Sorry, it sucks but is pretty obvious.? :-\

And apparently it's Axl who wrote most of the Vocal melodies.

I dont like seeing this hypocrisy from Duff. First he says he wants a new start then digs this up. The past should be left there....

What's with Duff?..."double talkin jive ass motherfucker" :hihi:

Song structures are important part of writing and I think Axl had a lot to offer in that section. He's got great musical vision. Riffs and chords on songs like Locomotive and Coma are written all by Slash but all those little mid-sections and extra-parts are probably Axl's ideas. I mean how many 8-minute epics has Slash written with Snakepit or VR? Slash can come up with a great riff anytime but you need more than that to have a great song.

Secondly. There's been said that it's easy to come up with a melody line when you've got chords already written. Yeah, but doens't it work also other way around? I seriously doubt that songs like Patience or SCOM were started by someone else than Axl

My first post so hi everyone! Rock'n'roll? :smoking:

Helllo!! It was something I expected since a very long time.
C'mon guys,   why would somebody write music for 10 years,  yet,  no cd was ever recorded!?
It doesn't matter who you like or don't (after all,   it alwys seemed all the ex members were on one and Axl on the other side!?  One or two people can be wrong,  but not so many.),  but you can't honestly belive that no record came out since 91 cause he is doing an masterpiece?
Anyone on this board could bring out an masterpiece if he was jobless for 13 years just writing music.
8 songs for an single cd can't be so hard to write.
All the former band members brought out more than 2 cd's (Gilby n Izzy 5 or 6),  yet Axl = 0,  although so many people with different ideas came and went.
It is obvious.

The bold text just highlights how able you are to talk about music.

Also,  I am not bashing anyone... But,   a)  some of you must have stickers on your ears cause I am listening to Dead Horse since 13 years and THERE IS NO PIANO (unless some of you are under drug influence.).

b)   No offence to Axl,  but I don't play guitar and I can play his chords on Dead Horse,  so....

c)   You Axl lovers are missing an important chapter there talking about Axl writing guitar parts for Dead Horse.
If you were around back then,  you would know that SLASH taught AXL the opening chords for DEAD HORSE.
After ILLUSION TOUR was over,  Axl sought SLASH to teach him guitar playing,  after SLASH left,  Axl asked Paul Huge Tobias or whatever his name is to teach him some guitar playing.
I'd love if some of you could explain me how the f.+0,.. he wrote guitar parts for Dead Horse if he couldn't play guitar!?
Would be thankful for that info : ok:

OK... this thing from Duff really irritated me, because at one time I thought Duff was probably a pretty cool dude, but, him saying something so bitter and angry irritated me. 

Especially, when I remember recently reading a quote from him when he was still in GNR.  I don't know the source of this quote, but it is from another GNR fansite.  It claims that Duff said this: 

"Axl, lyrically, is brilliant in my eyes. Some of the shit that goes through his head is like, WHOAH!"

Like I said, I don't know where this quote originated. 

Even if Axl never wrote the music... lyrics are just as important as the music to a song.  Without lyrics, you have an instrumental, and not many people buy albums for the instrumentals.  It's the words to a song that generally are so moving and make the fans relate to the songs.  Generally, you don't hear fans say (unless they are also musicians)  "Damn, I really related to that guitar solo."  But you do hear fans say "I could really relate to what that song was saying.  It was like it spoke directly to me." 

In interviews while he was with GNR, Duff would often express general displeasure in the fact that Axl was generally the center of attention in the band.  (Example, he would lament that people would approach him backstage and ask "Where's Axl" so often that his wife at that time had a tee-shirt printed for him that said "No I don't know where Axl is". 

This most recent statement suggests to me that his bitterness toward Axl continues.

There's no way I'm gonna read all the posts in this thread, so my apologies if this has been posted before...

But do you guys understand that there's more to writing a song than just coming up with a good guitar riff?  Or a good bass line?   Some of the posts sounds like some of you think that just because Slash wrote the riff for Welcome to the Jungle, he must have written the whole song.  There is song structure, regardless of which, if any, instruments are used.

Where  you there in the studio when the songs were being written? If so then how do you know that.
Also what about one in a million, and breakdown? Axl also wrote the music for both of them. Slashs own formual said ax wrote some of the music, so what are you talking about? Are you goint to say slash is lying about his formual on AFD?

Also, even if axl only wrote music for ONE song that is still more than the NONE that duff claims..

Oh btw some of  you dont know your gnr history. Axl was playing guitar or learning to play guitar way before the UYI days.

Answer the question because either slash or duff is lying here.? I know you dont want to answer the question because you know Duff if full of shit with his recent comments.? Saying Axl didnt write any of the music in guns n roses is laughable.

slash came up with the formual back in the afd days and the band all agreed to it including duff yet now duff is claiming axl didnt write any of the music.

I really hope duff tries to bring this up in the law suit because Axl can just bring up slashs forumal and make them look really bad.  Axl is smart by not saying anything its just adding fuel that axl can use against them in court.
But answer the question.

HA!? what a load of crap!? Axl may not have written the guitar melodies (obviously), but he came up with all the vocals - which are part of the MELODY...vocal melodies are just as important as the instrumental melodies...we've heard quotes from tommy about how axl is good at getting everyone involved and pushing every member to put their best work into each song - that tells me that axl WAS a huge factor in making GnR great - it was Axl's high standards and dedication to quality that helped GnR to create such awesome songs...Axl doesn't just settle for mediocre crap...he wants to do the best he can possibly do (obviously - Chinese D has taken years, but it's because he just wants it to be awesome).? Duff has no room to talk....VR isn't half the band GnR was...if Duff wants us to take these quotes seriously, then VR should do some better songs....But, i guess the best way to settle this is for Axl to release Chinese D...if it's better than VR, then we'll know...

Dizzy, ok I will ask you this question then. Were? you in the studio while gnr was making AFD and UYI?
If not then how do you know axl didnt write any of the music on those albums?

Quote me where any of the band members said axl only wrote vocal melodys for AFD.? I have shown the proof where slash said axl wrote some of the music to AFD now all you have to do is show how they said he wrote just the vocal melodies.


Here is a slash quote about wttj

"SLASH: That's the first song I had that Axl wrote lyrics to and helped me write. I had the riff part of it"

Slash says write here, Axl helped him write WTTJ. So slash saying right here axl helped him with the music part.
Slash had the riff and axl helped him with the rest of the music on the song, isnt that what he is saying? H MMM

There is more than just power chords (riffs) to a song (music). I am not even talking about vocal melodies.? Slash said in that quote Axl helped him to write the music. So are you still going to claim axl didnt help write the music on AFD?

Like I said were you there when they wrote the songs on AFD? If not how would you know. Slash already credited axl with help writing the music, he even said he helped him write WTTJ and he was not talking about vocals.

Even if axl did not write one note musically for AFD, he still wrote the music for the piano songs on the UYIs, thus proving duffs lying when he said axl didnt write any of the music for GNR.

Duff's statement is obviously wrong. Why don't you guys just cut it out and stop pretending as if this is immediately soluable without having been in the studio bearing witness to the song creation process.

Axl wrote the piano music to November Rain. without a doubt. Ergo, Duff is wrong.

Duff is a grown man he has been there, done it, lived it.  He can say what the fuck he likes what difference does it make?  I hate it when people have to fall on the "old junkie" thing like thats part of your argument ..please. ::)  It's has a sub-text of you have lived very little come back in 5 years time.

Do i think what he said is true? No not 100% but he wouldn't say it if there wasn't some truth in it. But on the other hand i wasn't there, he was.  The only people who really know is GN'R and the people that were around them like Robert John and Del James ect 

And like most people who have a bit of sense have already said, opinions are just that. One point of view is going to differ slightly to how another sees it.  And with time, i doubt any of us have the same opinions we had 1989-1993, at least i would hope not. 

Someone earlier said something really stupid along the lines of "he's only famous now because he is in VR" what the fuck?  You have obviously only been into GNR for about 5 minutes if you believe that.   Everybody who was on Appetite for Destruction will always be rememberd, it's a done deal.

Why should he not say what he wants? If it upsets you or me tough, that's life. He doesn't  care what you or i think of him.  It has nothing to do with your personal life. But it has with his personal life - that's the difference.  Even if he is not actually in GN'R now. In the eyes of most of the general music concious minds out there he will always be connected to Gn'R, because they were so huge and inspirational. 

We fans have a right to say fuck all really, even those of us who have been fans for a long, long time.  I have so many old mags stashed away i'm sure if i was nerdy enough i could find contradictions from everybody. But they are rock musicians, you're not meant to cling on every word and comment - let alone have to agree with it just because you like them or their music.     

The longer this Velvet Revolver thing goes on the more respect I lose for the old band members 'cause it mainly seems like they're using it as a platform to campaign against Axl.? To Duff I say just play your shows, have your fun or whatever you're calling it today as opposed to yesterday and just accept that Axl is a great writer/musician/singer/frontman/cultural icon and you are a good bass player.? Time to move on, Brother.

'Don't hate him 'cause ya ain't him.'

I will confess to have only read the first and last pages of tha thread...my 2 cents:

Personally, i think Duff, Slash, et al. should just stop talking about gnr...if they've really moved on, tell the press to fuck themselves and to concentrate solely on VR and the future...quit taking potshots at Axl just cuz the press wants you to...who gives a fuck anymore? the old gnr is broken up and likely forever that way shall remain. move on. I could give 2 shits who wrote all the music...the old band was a collaborative effort, same as VR, and the nu-GNR allegedly are...if Axl gets his thumbs out of his butt and gets the record out next year, let's have a comparison between artistic/musical merit then...as for rehashing the old shit...enough.

i totally agree witht his post. all the GNR members cntributes to the songs and i cant say i belive duff 100%, i dont think hes telling the whole story.

I haven't seen anyone say that Axl wrote ALL the music.  The argument is that he didn't write NONE of the music.  He wrote some.  We know he wrote some.  So Duff was lying, wrong, or the brain cells containing those memories were killed by one of those pipe hits.

Anyone who knows Duff personally will tell you how great a person he is. Whether it's the guys from ACS, Scott, his webmaster, Musicians I've met in Hollywood who are friends with him all talk about how sweet a guy he is.

Even nice people aren't nice all the time under every circumstance. I don't get why thats so hard to understand.

In my opinion Duff didn't figure out the reaction he was going to get with that stupid/laughable/silly/pathetic/dumb/younameit statement.

You can be v ery nice yet bitter and a liar at the same time.

sometimes the nicest people are just hypocrites. I'm not saying Duff is.

right under certain circumstances. I really like the point someone made about how we can argue about this all we want but it does not effect our personal life. It has effected their lives...very tragically

When has Axl said something like this?
Here is people with loads of bootlegs and info, someone must know something... it sounds pretty strange.

I've never been a McKagan fan, not that he's a bad guy or anything, I've just never taken him seriously.  His latest goofiness just proves not only should he not be allowed in front of a live mic, but in front of a live interviewer.

For everyone's sake Duff, stand by the drum kit, play your bass and for the love of God, don't talk.

He probably doesn't believe half of what he is saying, its merely gamesmenship. He is trying to stir up trouble and get people talking. Nothing wrong with that. He has a captive audience, he can say whatever he wants and no one will say boo about it because Axl is holed up in a house with no sign of any music on the horizon.

Oh so its ok when Duff does this, but when Axl does it there is a 20 page thread of people like you calling him an asshole.

I will re-evaluate this whole thing if and when Axl ever sacks up and puts it on the line and gives it a go again. Duff has pulled his life together and got into a successful band again, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt right now that he is just hyping his band and talents. I think he just let his enthusiasm get the better of him in this interview.

I want you to remember this comment you just made. Because when Axl responds to these criticisms, i expect a similiar tolerance from people on this board.

Not OK, but less scrutinized. 

With Duff in general, there's an air of indiifference and for lack of a better term, slack.

With Axl, he's either beloved or hated, not much inbetween whatsoever, so reactions tend to be more extreme one way or the other.

First of all, that's Duff's opinion or plan; whatever it is, it doesn't really matter.
Second of all; Dave, I would suggest you to stop it, even though you got a point because you have gained a reputation already, and sometimes threads end being locked.
Third of all, in favor of Dave a question to VR fans: How come you categorize YGNR, FTP and LTA "Beautiful Ballads" and NR and Stranged "Sappy Ballads"? Does sappy means sad or boring? Peace out.
  :peace: :smoking:

What's he goign to respond with? More of the same as we've seen over the last 10 years. More press releases, more playing one of concerts and busted tours. We are no closer to an album today than we were 3-4 years ago. He can respond however he wants, but no one will take him seriously until he releases an album.

You know... I like Duff and I respect him as a musician, but the fact of the matter is I haven't spared a moment to think about the guy since Tommy Stinson joined GN'R in '98. Stinson is a MAJOR UPGRADE... and Duff knows it.

Anyway, anyone who has the "Believe In Me" album credited to their discography is about the LAST person to slag on Axl Rose for "music writing". :confused:

Later Duff. Go score Weiland some smack. :beer:

Duff and Axl are easily the smartest guys in VR and yes he's most likely being sarcastiic in that statement

how do you know he is a fan of VR's ballads?

Not necessarily, in Stinson's own words:

"I never tried to fill Duff's shoes necessarily, but I definitely wanted to rise to the level he was at. Cause I think he's a great bass player"

Sounds as though Tommy himself thought he was inferior to McKagan...

no way in hell Stinson is better than Duff. Ask just about any accomplished bass player and he will tell you how vital duff's bass was to the GNR sound

This is not duffs opinion its duff trying to state a fact that axl didnt write one note in guns n roses, which is a bold face lie.  And I should stop what? I am not the one who gets the threads locked, its the people that tend to make personal comments or start them, so just remember that. 

Stinson is much  better than duff. Just take Tommys solo album and put it up  against duffs. Duffs do not even come close.

Absolute bullshit

If you watch making the videos NR and Estranged all the band members say that "Axl came to us with a skeleton of this song"

of course he didnt write music for the majority of gnr songs, but he did write the lyrics and thats what he was refering to.


also, he has written about 6 songs as the sole writer, therefore he came up with the melody to the song alone

No shit he didnt write the riffs/ solo's, but to say he never wrote any of the music is just false, because the songs he did write are some of GNR's best.........




Duff is still a cool guy, but this is just a flat out lie

That's hardly a fact by any stretch of the imagination, just your opinion. 

Stinson stated himself he had to raise his level of bass playing in order to reach Duff's, therefore
an admission of prior inferiority.

still doesn't mean he's a better bass player. You put Stinson in the AFD lineup and it would never be gnr

If you took a poll and asked whose solo album was better, I bet more people would say tommys. Duffs solo albums were just awful.? And Tommy may have said that but he was saying it to be respectful because he was replacing him. We all know if Tommy came out and said, that he can play circles around duff and he has to play down to his level that he would have been raped on this board.?

Duff solo album proves what kind of musican he is, and he is not better than tommy.
Didnt duff even said he is more talented now then when he was in gnr?
So if duff is just blah right now doesnt that mean back in the AFD days he was terrible?

Overall, not a great comment from Duff certainly, but that doesn't make him a bad person or someone who doesn't respect Axl.  Everytime he manages to say something bad about him, he usually comes right back and says something like "I have nothing against him" or "we went through a lot together."  His point was that Axl did not right most of the "music" (riffs, drums, melodies, etc.), and that's the truth, really.  Axl's best work was his lyrics, as well as some great piano melodies, especially on the songs that are completely credited to him.  But the rest of the band contributed a lot to the actual music, and this is not surprising.

Duff didnt say Axl didnt write most of the music for gnr, duff said axl wrote NONE of the music, which is not true. And even said axl didnt write much of the music for gnr is still not true.  No matter what kind of spin you want to put on this duff is simply not telling the truth.

I'm not talking about solo albums im talking about how duff plays best and what he contributed to gnr...why is that so hard to understand.

if you are going to go by solo albums then Robert Plant, jimmy page, steven tyler must really suck since they didn't have very successful solo careers

The song itself is like if estranged and november rain were watered down.. Something semi epic by axl regardless of the song gets everyone's panties in a bunch, it sounds like a second class to both of those songs// I don't dislike the song, but for me it's not a stronger song in comparisons with old, kind of seems like been there done that..

When you're waiting for new material since 91 you expect more then what we were given from those boots, at least I do.. How was he able to put these songs together, but can't get a full album out in years and years, he claimed to be ready to wrap it up, promised new songs for next summer after rio 3 and that was 2001..

We're not talking about solo albums (and I agree, Duff's solo stuff is horrific) we're talking about bass playing

"And Tommy may have said that but he was saying it to be respectful because he was replacing him. We all know if Tommy came out and said, that he can play circles around duff and he has to play down to his level that he would have been raped on this board." 

That's pure speculation on your part, hardly factual.

Anyway, there's very few bass players that are "difference makers", Flea comes to mind and that's about it.

if we're talking about musical resume's within the framework of a group,, Duff obviously has far greater credentials.

Duff even said he was not a good live player back in the gnr days, so if you want to base it on that fine. Tommy is a better bass player than duff was back in the gnr days. So what do you have to say about that? I am using duffs own words.

you actually think Duff believes that? you are blindly insane if you do. you are refusing to think rationally once again just to defend Axl. haven't you ever exagerated something you said before

Well I guess duff tends to lie a lot eh? And I will ask you the same question, do you really think tommy believes what he said about Duff? I dont think so. Duff really needs to make up his mind then and just start telling the truth.

haha i didn't even finish my last post and you made another irrational post. once again twisting words around to blindly defend Axl

How am i twisting anything when I am just quoting what duff said, and wasnt it you that claimed when I said duff was saying VR is more talented than gnr was, and you and a few others said no, duff was claiming he is a better live player now then he was with gnr.

So which is it? You also really need to make up your mind.  I am mearly stating what you said, that duff believes he is a better player now then when he played in gnr.

yes he does because he has no reason to lie. Duff's life is practically ruined after Axl took ripped apart problably the most important thing in duff's life..his band gnr

Wouldn't Tommy stating something that's supposedly not true in fact make Tommy a liar as well?

No because what tommy is saying is not trying to mislead anyone unlike what duff is saying about axl not writing any music in gnr. Big difference. 

Maybe tommy just respects duff as a player...

yes his playing is better now thn he was during the illusion tour by leaps and bounds it still doesn't diminish the work he did on the records. The bass parts he wrote, the style he incorporated that makes him duff and that makes the gnr sound

you don't seem to understand the concept of songwriting

There's a lot of blindly defending in this thread for sure, but not for Axl.

yep that officially makes tommy a liar :rofl:

So Tommy was trying to mislead the people on this board if your theory is in fact true?

I think i do just fine, duff wrote great things with axl but once he left gnr, he has not written anything good.
Tommy on the other hand wrote a great solo album, and some good stuff with the replacements.
WE have yet to see what he can write with Axl until the album dropps but thus far the basslines for CD is pretty damn good.

no one is defending what Duff said. There's difference between excusing him for blurting something out and defending him endlessly no matter what he says or does.

Again you have no clue what a lie is.
Saying someone is as better player than you out of respect is not a lie, its being humble..
But stating something that you know for a fact not to be true, ie slash claiming axl only has a few vocals done for CD or duff claiming axl didnt write any music for gnr is a lie

Do you understand?

Here is a simple analogy.
Duff claiming axl didnt write any music for guns n roses would be like axl coming out and claiming duff didnt write any lyrics for guns n roses. If axl ever came out and said that, i cant imagine what the same people on here that are defending duff would be saying about axl.

well to me the replacements suck, tommy sucks in comparison to GN'R so there's no way you are going to convince me otherwise.

I believe Duff gets writing credit on number 1 debuting Contraband which has subsequently spawned 2 number 1 rock singles thus far, pretty "good" I'd say..

OH so that means that the back street boys and all the girl bands are talented because they sell #1 albums?

oh yeah how can we forget that little band duff had after gnr called velvet revolver lol


*waits for dave to accidently praise slash as he puts down duff by saying velvet revolver?is Slash :smoking:

you can't seriously be comparing velvet revolver to britney spears

Again?  When in fact before was I not clued into the meaning of a lie?  Take your condenscending
tone to PM's, you're out of your league with me in a public forum.

Moving forward, you're arguing semantics based on a theory of yours that's not even based in fact.

My point is, album sales dont equal talent.

Nope, he just said that being #1 doesn't mean the music is good.

right when talking about britney spears or good charlotte. NOT VELVET REVOLVER : ok:

I will even go so far to say Tommys solo album is better than contraband.

great that is your opinion

Again, your opinion, goofy as it is, you're entitled to it.

No, when talking about anyone. The charts tell you how the music sells, not how good it is.

Of course, you think VR not only sold well but the music is good. Good for you! I'm sure you'll love it here (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=15.0).

going by that logic I can say the shitty garage band down the street is a lot better and has a lot moe talent then gnr ever did because they never made it on the charts

Yes, please send me a copy of their album.  ::)

gnr top the charts right? they must be overrated then

You have a problem with text interpretation...

You can have a good album and be in the top charts.

You can have a bad album and be in the top charts.

You can have a good album and not be in the top charts.

You can have a bad album and not be in the top charts.

The two things (good/bad album and sales numbers) are not necessarily related, we have countless examples showing that.

Got it now? If not, please send me a pm or start another thread to discuss album sales before this one gets locked.

Holy shit!  It's cute that a simple, little (albeit, prickish) quote from Duff in some obscure interview could breath so much life into this rapidly dying board.

Anyway, I have always thought that the "Duff" songs were hands-down the worse, least-listenable songs from GNR...Civil War is and always will be my most-hated GNR tune, and it reeks of Mr.McKagen.  I bought Belive In Me (for some reason) when it originally came out, and it was God awful.

However, a statement like this one that Duff has made really, really says alot.  The very first thing I thought of when I read it, well before meticulously reading all of the posts on this thread was this: The idea that Axl never really wrote any GNR songs explains quite well why it's taking him over a decade to come up with an album without those guys.

The idea that Axl never really wrote any GNR songs is proved wrong many times in this thread.

I obvisiously know that. i just think it's funny that people feel the need to criticize VR and irrationally defend Axl no matter what.

of course Axl was guns n' roses and velvet revolver sucks because they don't have Axl Rose. Now if they had Axl rose then it would be alright to refer to them as good because they have a hit record.

Judging by this quote of yours Dave "We all know if Tommy came out and said, that he can play circles around duff and he has to play down to his level that he would have been raped on this board.", you're own interpretation of Tommy's quote referring to Duff was in fact a play of Tommy's to avoid public ridicule on our own HTGH message board, right?

 : ok:



 

civil war is actually duff's finest moment as a songwriter lol

Which is alot like saying that Rambo was Sylvester Stallone's finest performance as a serious actor.

What happens in this thread is the opposite of that. People who are always criticizing Axl Rose and the current line-up can't even admit that Duff's statement is a lie. The sad part is that those same people like to say they're the rational ones, and that the people who defend Axl are just blind fanboys.

Obviously Duff's statement was wrong but I think he was exaggerating for more effect in the point he was trying to get across. I doubt he really believes that or expects us to believe then when we obviously know better. He's not that stupid despite what some of you may like to think.

woah....big words...

Although that might explain why it's taking so long.... :hihi:

after these words,i said"duff mckagan is sad and poor man"

duff is getting on my nerves. i liked him best when he was just a stupid drunk. now he's just a stupid ass hole that makes no sense and tries to get axl down in every interview and even tries to make it seem like he's not giving Axl a hard time... he's just setting the record straight... yeah right.
FUck Duff. if i knew he was this much of an ass hole i wouldn't've met him in the first place.
stupid sad lilttle man...

The only person being irrationally defended in this thread is duff, or cant you see that?

since when does duff always slag axl? Thats what I don't understand. He was always the one with the kinder things to to say. He was always the one who kept it private and often says when asked questions about the breakup "let's just leave it at that" I think a lot of you are misinformed, I know a lot of you are misinformed.  the people on the other gnr boards are not making a big a deal of this.

come on cheer up wasn't yesterday great come on and have a great time

Dead Horse Argentina 93 The last show video

http://gnrvenezuela.cjb.net

and remember how we used to be..............

sorry i know this is not the place to upload this but........

thnx anyway

I think Slash wrote some lyrics for GN'R, not whole songs but a line or two here and there.

I remember reading that somewhere....



In my opinion, Duff says two things. I can understand one of them. He says "Axl made it an Axl thing, but it really wasn't." which I understand, it was a band. But the other "He never wrote any of the music." I just can't understand....

Maybe he should've said "he didn't write as much music as some may think" or something similar.




/jarmo

well, IMO something must be clear for everyone. if axl wasn't writing any of the music, the A4D/Lies follow-up, would have been released in 1990, it would have been only one album and it would have sounded quite like A4D.

Dave Kushner is a whale of a player....
Thats fine if you think the replacements suck but to a big part of the punk world they are punks gnr.

Tommys solo work blows away Duffs solo work. We all know Duff was a monster with GNR. Lets see what Tommy brought to the table when CD comes out...To automatically disregard him is being a pussy

Dave pretty much labeled Tommy a lying "pussy" with his whacko theory of Tommy not saying he could play "circles" around Duff merely to avoid being "raped" on this board.

No definitions of a "lie" need be mentioned, we're all well aware of the meaning by now.

I don't understand what Tommy has to do with Duff's comment.....





/jarmo

who knows.

I don't even know why people are debating who wrote what. November Rain is evidence enough that Duff is wrong; people here should just let it die.

It has nothing to do with this topic.

Common sense tells it was thoughtful of Tommy to be humble about himself and respectful to Duff.
As a result he didn?t rub Duff-fans the wrong way, like on this board.
That's what Dave meant.

I'm very active in the publishing business so i'll break this down for you

Song are typically broke down into three parts

1) Lyrics
2) Vocal Melody
3) THe basic chord structure and arrangement

Axl primarily wrote all the lyrics, and vocal melody's. And was a huge contributor to arrangement ideas.

Slash and duff primarily wrote parts around the chords and stucture of izzy and axl's tunes.

Lets get one thing straight. Writing a guitar solo isn't considered part of the song Unless the main songwriter says so. Same with drums or bass. THats why slash and duff are credited that often.

THere is a grey area of whether or not the "contribution was significant to the development of the song" but techincally speaking Axl was the mainsong writer because he created lyrics and melody 2/3's of the process, as well as arrangement ideas thus working into the last 1/3 as well.

Which is why he received 40% of the royalities on AFD (There is an interview on this site somewhere where axl says this) and probably way more on the illusions.

this is so fucking low of duff. dude used to be like my hero and now he's just talking shit. everyone knows that axl and occasionally izzy wrote the best gnr songs and axl definately has the most talent of them all. just look at the classics they put out. duff is just mad that they can't repeat the success they had with gnr with their sucky little band and that they won't be part of axl's huge future success. slash is the same way. so sad to see.

The only person here being a wise ass or difficult is YOU.  You are the one refusing common sense not me.
I am mearly taking what slash has said in the past and the rest of the band about the AFD songs and now what duff has said this week.

First to answer your question, I do not know if slash wrote any lyrics for the UYI songs but I am not saying he did not, so that is not a valid argument.

Now let me state the obvious again since you seem to just ignore it.
Slash said, by his own formula that Axl wrote music for AFD. So are you going to refute that?
Again look at the quote that slash gave, he said Axl came up with the lyrics, while I (slash) had the main riff, then he said Axl helped him write the rest of the song. So using common sense that means that Axl helped slash write the melody.
THIRD, even if you want to claim that Axl didn?t write any of the music to AFD. AT the very least Axl wrote the piano music to Nov rain and Estranged, which using common sense is music. So duff is not being truthful when he states Axl didn?t write any of the music in guns n roses.
Now what part of all this don?t you understand?

I honestly can't believe anyone can back duff on this matter, those who do are just blind loyalists to slash and duff. It?s very ironic since those same people accuse others and me as being blind Axl followers.

here are the main components of songwriting, im gonna break it down to u.

lyrics, vocal melodies and chord structure.

november rain,estranged and breakdown for instance are credited to axl because

he wrote the lyrics
the vocal melodies
and the chord progression/changes

granted NR and estranged wouldnt be the same without slash's contribution it would still be a song without slash's contribution, maybe not as good but a song nonetheless

same reason why drums and bass usually arent credited on songwriting

with the guitar riff u have the chord progression and unless u are Flea most players play off the chord progression

drummers do the beat but once again without drums u still have a song therefore drums arent viewed as a credited songwriting source except for rare occassions where the drums may make the song a la paradise city maybe you could be mine.

Well, the video Of Dead Horse was pretty bad ass.  That was the best thing from this 13 page thread.  I don't think Duff was being literal.  I think he was saying exactly what Jarmo interpreted.  Axl didn't right as much as people think.  GNR is going to get back together in a few years anyway.  So I guess we will find out then.  Anyway, great video from Argentina!!

Duff must have meant that Axl didn't write those songs he falsely said were his own.
When/if that's happened is another thing.
But it doesn't make sense any other way- it's publicly known that  Axl's written stuff for GNR and Duff must realize that as well.

I like DUFF. I think he really adds a lot to the old GNR. I would believe that he was also the only one who was personally capable of staying on in GNR and staying true with Axl;s vision. The fact that Tommy Stinson now takes his spot shows that Axl has always envisioned the bass player to be of "punk influence", someone not afraid to say "fukk off" (Its So Easy".)

But what Duff says is out of line.  His most famous bass lines would never had come into existence without Axl tellling Slash to keep the solo for SCOM. Axl was also instrumental is making "Mr. Brownstone" a staple in GNR and keeping Izzy from throwing the song out. I bet there are other examples unknown to us, both major and minor, that Axl heard something from one of his old players and knew it would go far and take the music to another level. Axl was right. He may not have ultimately played the notes, or all the notes, but he got these other guys to play and write at another level.

For me personally, I only have to hear a song like Its So Easy, So Fine and Get In the Ring and significant parts of Nighttrain and Paradise City, as well as my personaly favorite from TSI, "You Can't put yoru arms around a memory" to know that Duff's best days as a song writer and composer are long gone. He's a tremendous bassist-player, has greater stage presence now than ever before, and has remarkably turned his life around, but he no longer has a visionary like Axl on his back getting him to play on a whole other level, or having it rubbed off from other players as well through Axl. He still has his moments like on "Fall To Pieces" and "STB", but it will never have the staying power with the fans like his stuff with GNR and with Axl.

One thing I do give him credit though is that he is the former member who best explains Axl's character weaknesses. When he talks about Axl's "yes men", he's absolutely right, for worse or for better they have lead to the problems that crippled Axl for the better part of the decade.

But I have never heard Axl taking credit for something where it was due completely elsewheres, he's had a hand in most if not every GNR hit.

 :rant:
Mark N' Roses

it doesn't take a genious to find out that the sweet child o' mine intro has to be kept.

Just because Slash didn't like it doesn't mean it takes a special person to recognize it lol

To sum this thread. I think everyone agrres that

1. If Duff said that 'Axl didn't write any music', he wasn't right, 'cause Axl wrote some.

2. Axl didn't write as much music as a lot of people think.

3. Although the credits go to the one(s) who wrote the Lyrics/Vocal Melodies/Chords, it's not hard to realize that writing SCOM chords, this simple D, C, G, C thing, (or the chords for Breakdown, Dead Horse, UTLH etc.) is not a big deal, this is the most used pattern is music writing just like the Am/G/F thing. So writing tiny chords are inferior to creating good solos and riffs for these.

4. It could be a wise argument to talk about which part of a song deserves credit. I think when a solo makes a song incredible, it deserves it, because I don't see any difference between writing the main/solo guitar parts for a song or writing the vocal melodies for this. Both of them are really important. On the other hand I always thought that Matt (or Steven) should have been credited for Locomotive and YCBM, and I could go on and go on with other songs and other players.

how do you know what a lot of people think?

There is a formula for the distribution of royalties, why is anyone disputing what that means? I think I know why.


how about we don't. It's subjective and would cause further argument with absolutely no resolution.

First. A lot of Bravo(etc.)-readers think that Axl wrote most of the songs. But if you like it better, then I change my second point to

2. Axl didn't write much music. It was Slash, Duff and Izzy who wrote the majority of the music.

Do you like it better?

Second. Have you recognized that HTGTH is a message board? A forum? Where people share their opinions and sometimes (or often) fight for their point of view? Not God's voice or 'The Great Encyclopedia of facts everybody must know'? Please tell me how much non-subjective argument exists on this board? Oh, I forgot they're all in the Dead Horse section where newbies can ask 'When was Axl born?' and 'Who plays the NR solo?'.

it's a pointless argument as i said b/c there will never be any resolution, only petty bickering between Axl/Slash fans.

 Aside from being involved in the recording process and witnessing who wrote what, it's impossible for us to know the exact breakdown. Axl was involved in writing a considerable amount of music through vocal and piano melodies that were converted later into instrumentation. he worked alot more on UYI than AFD as many of us would speculate. But to itemize exactly who wrote what is an impossibility; to say that "Axl didn't write as much as most think" assumes first of all what "most" people are thinking and secondly that said people think that he wrote more than he did. I don't think that you or anyone here knows enough fact for their argument to be anything more than idle speculation. It's best to concentrate on other matters.


There is difference between arguing whether OMG is a good Guns song and who wrote what parts of each Guns songs. The former is opinion, the latter is unknowable. I am certain that there is no one on this board that knows enough truth to say that axl has not earned more than the percentage of band royalties to which he is credited.

I think that arguing about who should be credited for songs he's not cretited is a much more wiser idea than arguing about OMG. Because as you said the OMG-argument is based on only opinions and 'de gustibus non est disputandum': we cannot argue about musical tastes. On side says that OMG is great, it's a rocker, or an industrial type of song. The other side says it's not GN'R, but it's great/it's not great. That's it. Why do you like this song or that? Because 'it's so great', 'I really like the guitars', 'Whoa, what an epic'...It's not an argument, is it?

Arguing about credits aren't based only on 'unknowable' things, it's based on facts (who are credited), opinions (someone thinks that this and that bass/drum/guitar/piano part is so important in the song that the musician deserves credit for it, although he didn't get) and not really knowable things (but at least we can suspect that Slash or Axl didn't write the drums for Locomotive). I think it's a much better theme than 'who is a liar' or 'Axl never had that much hair' etc., and even more interesting than the 'Anyone remembers what happened during the MSG show 2 yars ago?'-type topics.

I agree with the last sentence of your post, but judging from how this thread has progressed for the first seven or so pages, all I see are Slash/Duff fans saying that Axl wrote little music and Axl fans saying he did write or direct the writing of alot of music.

Your conclusion that we could all agree that he hasn't written as much as many think is still an unfounded, unproven contention.

1. No one said Axl wrote most of the music to the guns n roses songs, we are disputing that he wrote NONE like duff claims.
2. Again how do you know axl didnt write much? You were not there and slashs forumal points out that Axl wrote a lot of the music to AFD.? So again why are you even disputing this?

All duff had to say is, axl didnt write as much music as some might think, and that would have? been fine, but duff said axl wrote NONE which is a huge difference Duff knew exactally what he was saying. He could have chose to write some of the music or very little but he did neither.

Axl could have written just the music for Nov rain, and duffs comment would be a lie.
You can say that axl wrote 20% of the music on guns n roses albums but that is still a lot more than none. Because 20% is probably about how much of the music/melodies he wrote for gnr.

I bet Duff did say "he didn't write as much music as some may think" or something similar and the stupid ass press turned it around to say "Axl never wrote any of the music for Guns n' Roses" because it would capture everyone's attention and maybe provoke a rebuttal out of Axl.

Think outside of the box  ;)

That is giving duff too much credit, I d bet he said axl wrote NONE of the music in gnr.
Hell slash said he knows for a fact that Axl only has vocals for 2 tracks on CD.
come on now.

If I'd be that stupid as some of you, I'd ask that 'How do you know that Axl completed vocals for more than 2 tracks? You weren't there!'. But I'm not, so I don't ask you. (On the other hand as far as I know couple means two or some)

Do we really have to go? here again? We all know it ws a lie. I wont even point you toward the Brian May interview or the spin interview.

Its really amazing and quite comical some of you actually believe slash and duff when he comes to this kind of stuff.

Where did I say that I believed it?  ??? It was you who came again with this 'couple of songs' theory. It didn't happen that long ago, you'd have to remember...

On the other hand we are not in the position to know that how much tracks were completed by Axl.

I didnt point you out, I said some of  you, Ie the people that believe duff and slash, those people know who they are and we do too.

I'm tired of people using the word 'melody' out of context.

Melody refers to the vocal line sung by axl. Which he wrote primarily all of. Melody is the major conponent of music. Thus duff is a crackhead.

Slash did not help axl write melody/vocal lines

Yay, No one can argue with that, Crashdiet.




 :D Perhaps the people around them are no good. You know of "yes men".
Yeah, It must be those hangers-on who are putting the ideas into their heads.?  :P

Some people have way too much time on their hands arguing about this shit... I can't believe how long this thread is.

Obviously Axl had some sort of writing contribution, although to us it was more apparent in the UYI sets (when the band started using the piano in more of their songs).

I'm fairly sure that this snippet of an interview doens't quite convey the entire point that Duff was trying to make.

It really fucks me off everytime I come in here and see the abuse thrown towards Slash and Duff because of the odd comment about Axl. People get pissed off with Axl because he's been promising an album for the last 5 years, yet manages 1 press release a year.

I have noticed people on this board who were fans of Velvet Revolver, but then suddenly turn against them whenever a bad comment about almighty Axl comes from Slash and Duff. What the hell is that about? Does the VR music sound different now just because poor Axl gets a bad rap?

Listen to the music for fuck's sake, it's only rock n' roll. If you like it cool, if you don't like it, that's also cool. Just don't judge your opinion on the personal relationships between people that you don't personally know. Duff was there, no one here was, so obviously Duff is more qualified to make such bold statements than we are qualified to just dismiss them.

Although I find it hard to believe that Axl didn't write any music in GNR, I am also willing to understand the fact that Duff was there, and was probably able to base this opinion on a lot of stuff that no one here knows about.

Its funny how Axl fans will bitch at ANYTHING anti-Axl.  Well, thats what happens when you have:

1- No record
2- Ten years and counting........
3- A reclusive singer (who now resembles Michael Jackson appearence)
4- A failed tour
5- No original members
6- Missing current guitarists
7- *add your other gripes here*

Right.? And I'm sure the rest of the band just sat idly by while Axl attached his name to most of the songs in the album sleeves and left them out.  No one would've just sat there and allowed that.  Just more typical delusional crackhead Duff.

Its funny because back in 2002 when ever axl mentioned the old guys at a show or in an interview that was saying something negative about slash, duff or izzy there were threads of over 50 pages of people calling Axl an asshole.  OH but I guess that was not bitching right?

1. The album is on its way.
2. It has not been ten years, axl started CD in 1999, so lets all count now children, how many years is that? Its 5  years.
3. So what if axl keeps to himself, nothing wrong with that, unlike slash loves to steal and hod the spotlight. As for Axl looking like Jacko, he looks nothing like him and from the pics Eva gave us, it looks like axl had no surgery at all.
Either way Axl still looks much better than Duff or Weiland. Now those guys are scarey.  And slash is looking a little bloated too.
4. Vr tour is failing too in case you have not noticed. They have just cancelled a bunch of shows bc of lack of ticket sales.
5. If im not mistaken Axl is an orginal member, is he not? And axl was in guns n roses before slash.
6. Yes BH left, but tommy said its for the best and people have been bitching on this site for years saying they hvae too many guitarists.

In your opinion only. Noone knows how Axl looks on a daily basis, because he is rarely photographed. When he is photographed, it looks like he has a ton of moisturizer on his face. So if your going by that, at least have Duff and Scott freshly shaved, with 1 pound of moisturizor on before criticizing their appearence. Thank you.

1-The album is on its way.  So is the apocalypse Don't hold your breath.  Why doesn't uncle Axl come on tv and tell his fans whats happening?  Why the tour failed?

2 -Dude, its been 10 years since a Guns N' Roses record dude.  Maybe you could say 5 years had it be an "Axl Rose" solo album.  (not that it's GN'R anyways)  But that is what he calls it.  10 years bro, 10 years.

3-yada, 4-yada, 5-yada.

 

What fact do you base this assumption on?

No goofy babble, just facts please.

Real nice replies, it just shows you cant refute what I said.
Thanks for proving my point.

And Falcon, why else would the VR shows get cancelled? And I can guess what the reason is just like others guessed why CC pulled the plug on Axls 2002 tour.

You stated your assumption as fact, I asked for evidence backing your statement, specifically not the babble above.

Again, facts please.

If I'm not mistaken, most of the VR shows that have been temporarily removed from their itinerary
didn't even have tickets on sale yet, thusly debunking your lack of ticket sales buffoonery.

DaveGnr2k - You cant handle the truth.  Answer MY questions!

1-The album is on its way.  So is the apocalypse Don't hold your breath.  Why doesn't uncle Axl come on tv and tell his fans whats happening?  Why the tour failed?

2 -Dude, its been 10 years since a Guns N' Roses record dude.  Maybe you could say 5 years had it be an "Axl Rose" solo album.  (not that it's GN'R anyways)  But that is what he calls it.  10 years bro, 10 years.


Real nice replies, it just shows you cant refute what I said.
Thanks for proving my point Jacko.

1. The tour didnt fail since they sold out the bigger markets like ny and boston.? The tour was just not promoted thus the lack fo ticket sales in the smaller markets.? As for why doesnt axl tell us what is going on its simple. Axl wont say anything until he knows the release date. juts look at what the same usual suspects do when dizzy or tommy try and give us info about when CD might come out, they get bashed when the album gets pushed back. Axl has spoken in the past, like when BH was sick and the euro tour got nixed the first time, certain people called him a liar. So why would Axl tell us anything? HE gave us info when RIR got cancelled bc BH left and he got bashed for that too.
 
2. Again learn to count, Like I said axl has only been working on CD for 5 years and its not been 10 years since the last gnr album since the greatest hits came out not too long ago.

You have been owned.? Good day.

Fine then, 10 years since GNR has released an album with new material (some would argue 13 years given SI was a cover album). Does that solve this whole ownership issue on how long its been since we've seen a new GNR album?

Come on man, if you haven't been listening to Tommy and Dizzy then let me inform you that we at this time have very strong indications that the album is on its way sometime before March. This is by no means rock solid and plans could change again. But for the first time ever, we have had a bandmember actually tell someone what months were/are planned for a release. There is no need to split hairs on a GnR board; the label doesn't tell us much so every discussion is laden with rampant speculation.

How many times are you going to change the critera of this album and how long it has taken? You cant say its been 13 years since Axl has been not working on it that long. That is what some of you are trying to claim that its taken axl ten years to put out Cd when that is a misconception.? You can all play with words and try to get all cutsy but the fact is axl has only taken 5 years so far to put out this album which is about as long as trent and maynard work on their albums before being released.

You call greatest hits an album?  That is hands-down the queerest answer of all time. :nervous:  Actually, that is such a bad responce, I have no reply for that bullshit.

If its not an album then what do you call it? Its called the greatest hits album is it not?

Its a collection of OLD songs. C'mon man, dont fool yourself.

Its still an album, so you lose.  You cant claim gnr have not released an album since 93.
Why is it so hard for the axl bashers to admit that its only taken axl 5 years to put out CD?
OH i know why because when  you look at it unbiased it doesnt seem that long than claiming its taking axl ten years to put out an album.

Whatever dude.  Just whatever.  And CD is NOT out yet.

Its ok to be wrong.  Better luck next time.  And yes its not out yet but so what, its not effecting my life either way.
Its lame some people thread this as if its effect how they live their life. 
The album will come out when its ready, when you and others finally accept that maybe it wont be such a big deal. Because to me RIR III doesnt seem like that long ago, eventho it was 3 years ago.

Wow you are a regular James Carville. Using the fact that Axl hasn't released CD to win some point on a GnR board takes about as much talent as shooting the broad side of a barn with a shot gun. The problem with your position is that it's transitory; whenever this album is released, and trust me it will see the light of day, your whole position is obsolete.  So we here at this board grin and shrug when people like you come here; you do your little dance and have your little fun but you know what, it doesn't make a difference. People will wait for Chinese Democracy. People will wait for Axl. Only when the album is released can someone legitmately come here and complain that Axl is washed up or has wasted his talents, but not til that day.  So your words fall on deaf ears here bro. Maybe the folks at metal sludge will appreciate your jaded view on this band.

CD needs to be released soon... "the haters" are spreading like virus and infecting all threads in this forum, like this one about Duff and his statement.
 :hihi:

well, axl's working more than 5 years on this album. he started workign an songs in 1994. slash said, that they were working mainly on axl's songs. so some ideas started back then. of course he didn't work the whole time on them, he surely had to stopped now and then.
i don't wanna bash axl for that long time, but it's just a fact.

They have never said that they listened to finished tracks before. Nor have they ever said that the album was being considered for released in month XXXX.

A COMPILATION is still an album. So you lose.  An album is an album no matter how you want to slice it.

The haters really like claiming it has taken axl 10 years to make this album, all the songs that axl worked on with slash and duff are in a vault somewhere, didnt duff even say this? You really think that Axl is going to use those songs? The answer is NO. The only song that may make the album is this I love  but just  because that will make the album doesnts mean its take that long . that would be like saying it took the band 5 years to make the UYI because dont cry was on it and that song was written in 1986.

The core of the current band started working on Cd in about 1999 thus its only taken 5 years. Is it really that hard to understand?

I think GH is an album, but, even if we disregard that, what about Live Era!.  Axl, Slash, AND Duff, from what I remember, had input into that, and I wouldn't exactly call it a compilation, since it was live material that had never been released.

I'm with dave on the 5 year thing.  It may have been 10 years since GnR released an album of "new" material, but Axl has not been working on CD for 10 years.   Both points are valid, but mutually exclusive of one another.

Read your post dizzy, the one you just wrote.? Let me quote you.?
"And as I said, since the GNR Greatest Hits album was released ...."

You just called it an album didnt? you? So it is an album then.
Thanks for proving my point.

The fact is some of you want to get all cutesy and claim Axl has been working on CD for ten years when we all know its only been about 5, but if  you guys want to get cute with that then I  can get cute and point out the GHs album and the Live era album. 

See, we're playing games of semantics here.  dave is technically, semantically right.  It IS an album.  It's a compilation ALBUM..note the word album.  In that, he is correct.

GH was also an officially GNR Release by the label. 

You can say AXL has not released an album since Live Era (he did have input on that), but not that GnR has not released AN album in 10 years.  You can say they have not released an album of "new" or "original" material, you can say they have not released a "Studio" album, but you can't use the general "album" and not be semantically incorrect.

Best, when that happens, to just clarify what you mean and move on.

Dizzy,
He's just playing with semantics because it makes him feel good to think Axl hasn't been procrastinating and it still releasing albums, even if he didn't authorize them. Just let him be, because he lives in his own little world on this board and trying to get him to realize how asinine the things he says are is like drawing water from a stone.....just not possible.

 ::) at dizzy for the name calling.? I said all i need to on this matter in my last thread. No need in going in circles like you like to do dizzy. You can claim what ever you want but CD has not taken ten years and gnr have put out albums since TSI.

lets try and get back on topic.



Ah i forgot its ok when the bashers like you and dizzy play with semantics and claim its taking axl ten years to make CD yet when I do it I am livng in my own little world.  Funny stuff. Just further proves my point about hypocrites like you and dizzy on this board.  Thanks once again for proving my point.

Now back on topic.

Of course that's true ,whatever catches on sells alot, plus it also is what you think talent is..

Off of that there's not many ways to prove a point, so sometimes you mention sales to say people are buying it, or singles doing good to say people are requesting songs.. When CD finally comes out and I'm sure it will debut at one, won't you tell someone CD is good it debuted at number one..

I'm sure you won't have a problem saying that the album sold this many copies, or the single is this high on the charts..

Point is you will defend new gnr regardless of how someone feels about them with stats after the album, single comes out.. : ok: There's nothing wrong with that..

Someone says snakepit was bad because it didn't sell (obviously no promotion), and Contraband debuts at number one, and both slither and ftp's have been number one single for mainstream, modern rock but then we'll hear sales don't mean everything, then you'll get a britney, backstreet refrence... Either way you can't win!

Once again Dizzy trying to spin this into something its not. Just give it up dizzy, other people see my point on this, but why cant? you. Let me make it REALLY EASY for you.

If people can claim it has taken Axl ten years to make CD because TSI was their last album, I can point to the GHs album and Live era? being release.? If YOU and OTHERS want to play semantics then I can too, its that simple.? Do you understand now dizzy?

Now lets get back to duff talking about Axl not writing any of the music in guns n roses.

Well I haven't been following the thread but regardless gnr hasn't released NEW material since the illusions, unless you want to count oh my god and a few boots..

As for duff he lied or whatever but I could care less everyone knows axl contributed, so what else is there to say? One thing dave you only hold people accountable when it's something you agree with, but I don't see you getting pissed because axl said New songs next summer, or time to wrap the album up circa 2001..  SUre duff spoke shit, I'm sure the guys wrote most of the beats n parts for the instruments, but it was from 85 to 93 so who cares anymore..?

Mike If you have been a gnr fan since the beginning, then? you know gnr is all about delays it just goes with being? a fan.? The UYIs were pushed back a few times, and now CD is too.? The album will come out when it comes out.? There has never been an offical release date just the bands hopes when to get it out.? When Axl said at the VMAS the album wont be out anytime soon, I just said, its going to be a while and have delt with it.? The bashers love to bring up its still not out then but when its finally out what are they going to bitch about? As for who cares anymore well duff and slash do since they still slandering him any chance they get, and this board must since there is a bunch of posts about it in this thread.

Duff should really just shut up and play. Axl as much as the naysayers would hate to admit it, Axl has taken the high road on all of this bashing and has not say anything back about them since the tour ended.

I have no problem with delays, but that's when it's within reason, be honest how long has Cd been known about, how long has talks been going on about this? I personally feel like I've been waiting since I bought the illusions albums so the delay seems extended..

It's also different when you're amking a comeback involving delays, it's not like wew just got TSI and it was to hold us over like in 93, it's 2004 and we haven't had one thing yet.. That's the problem.. I want this album more then some might think and I just like to voice my displeasures...

Regardless of who you are there's no way when you watched the vmas and heard it would come out but soon isn't the word would you ever think over 2 years later that there wouldn't be an album already, or a release date, a video recorded, or a single chosen.. Woud you think axl would have spoken about once in nearly two years.. Dec 5,2002-March 2004..

I've read the interviews, dizzy said originally november, now pushed back to the winter, then tommy mentions he wants to tour in the winter but with his solo project, but he needs to check in.. It just doesn't sound promising.. It doesn't matter if someone says don't wait for the album live your life, it's the point as fans gnr is part of your life... Can everything be buckethead's fault?

First duff gets interviewed alot, and asked about gnr's old days and axl..

I wouldn't say axl took the high road, I see it as being a recluse who hides because he would have to answer CD questions so he has no time to be popping shots at anyone..-

Well mike at the boston show in 2002 one of the people in front of me was with one of the boston papers, and he told me he talked to gnrs publicts and said the plan was to release it around labor day 2003. So I know in Dec of 2002 it would be atleast a  year before he heard anything about the album.

Ok, how's the end of this thread related AT ALL with the original subject (the odd line about it in a twenty line post about something else doesn't count)??

"DUFF : AXL ROSE Never Wrote Any Of The GUNS N' ROSES MUSIC".

I'm fed up with seeing petty little fights between Dave/ Dizzy/ Booker/ Naupis/ you name it in every fuckin thread where former GN'R members are mentioned. Especially when you all highjack the thread to turn it into an endless "debate" (boohoo, Axl is a mean guy who cancels shows, boohoo, Slash and Duff slam Axl, etc.).

If you don't have anything to add concerning the subject (which I reposted a few lines above), then don't bother posting. If you continue your useless fights, this thread will be locked since no one seems to have something to add about the subject.

If axl couldn't play any instrument besides the piano, what the hell is he doing with a guitar??:hihi:

(http://img29.exs.cx/img29/3393/axlleggingsfleuris.jpg)

1. it's not the right topic for this.

2. If you ever saw a guitarist, you'd tell how lame Axl's guitar handling is. It's like Slash would sit at the piano and it's be a proof that he can play the instrument.

Well regardless we would have had it, and the buckethead thing was unfortunate.. One thing that suprised me was when I went to msg I was kind of hoping that he would have spoke of the album more.. Afterall it was several months since his interview with Kurt Loder.. Put it this way on Dec 5th 2002 I was a very happy person looking forward to something after a tour..

Even if the album wasn't ready it just sucked that the band vanished as quick as they appeared for that stint.. I wish someone besides tommy would speak, makes you wonder if he wasn't touring would we know anything..?

All I want is one thing in gnr news, booking arenas, recording a video, or anything of that nature.. I have my days where I feel somewhat positive thehn I have others where this whole thing seems like it will never happen..


WILL, Guess there isn't anything left to say in regards to the topic, either you think duff is right, some what right, or wrong.. I don't agree with what he said, but I know from following the european tour that they get hounded about axl rose and the old band in regards to what went wrong.. I think when axl comes around the journalists can ask him where he's been or whatever else instead of asking the others numerous questions about the same old subjects.. I think duff should give no comments these days, these things happened so long ago..

Axl's piano playing hands are not always in the ideal egg holding shape either. Still he plays it well.

Piano is essential to understand music. You can play chord and riff at the same time on piano.
That?s why Most composers play piano skillfully or tolerably.

dude, do you even know what "semantics" means?

Point taken. But this is the first we've heard bandmembers admit to hearing finished tracks as well as one of them indicating the album was being mastered. Combine that with Vh1 being told November and Tommy & Dizzy mentioning that date as well as a possible February date and we have a number of interesting bits of info which when taken together seem to foretell the end of this excruiating wait.

Whether it happens or doesn't remains to be seen, but the indicators for release right now are the strongest that they've ever been. There is reason to be optimistic.

16 pages....damn!

Duff said this shit before.
It does not take a genius to understand that Axl had a HUGE part in the creation of the GN'R catalogue.
They are trying to get sole rights in their lawsuit
Thats bullshit
Duff shouldn't talk out of his ass like this
but oh well... whatever... I'm not surprised
A lot of fans worried about Axl ruining / tarnishing the GN'R name but in my opinion when Duff talks shit like this he is dragging it through the mud  :no:

Axl was being honest in his rants. By that I mean he was saying what he actually thought, and although it may have sounded bitter or harsh and you and I may not agree with him, that's how he feels.

Now:
"He never wrote any of the music", DUFF.
"There's only a couple of songs with vocals on it -- I know that for a fact." SLASH.

Now, that's BULLSHIT and LYING.

2 very good examples.
I'm used to thier bullshit lies by now...
Axl called it a couple years back in reference to Slash....  what was it exactly he said..?
"Slash is a liar... its who he is... it's what he does"
yeah... something like that

ok...we already know axl can produce quality music without the old GnR...we've already heard good songs from the new gnr - the blues, madagascar, etc...so, don't worry...we know axl's got the goods...he'll deliver...when CD comes out, duff will have to shut his pie hole, because we won't be able to claim that axl is talentless when everybody is praising Chinese Democracy

Whoa, settle down with the blanket statement.

IMO (besides Chinese Democracy) all we've got from Axl and his band is a collection of b/c-sides and (though I like it personally) a horrribly received comeback song in "Oh My God".

 

No.

But then again, do we really know anything since he is touring?

-No.

Damn I can't believe my home town newspaper made an article that would be over 16 pages : ok:

First off it's another lousy statement from duff... Yeah ok Axl had nothing to do with guns n roses he was just a nobody and didnt do a damn thing for us....

Well in offense to Duffy he may have some points that people tend to go overboard with liking Axl but at the same time you can't denial that Axl made that band. Go put on welcome to the jungle right now and tell me what you think ....So what if Axl didnt write or play he could sing the songs great.

Later

Horrible song in your opinion a lot of people liked oh my god esp gnr fans.
There was a poll on this board sometime in 2002 and oh my god got 70% like and 30% not.

This is by no means an insult, but a question, are you that fucking dense?

READ MY POST, I said "I like it personally", I never said it was a horrible song.

Nobody said a thing about Axl taking the high road, read the post again... and to bring up Hitler? He was a politician, and his political views are generally not accepted even in a democratic country because they were racist and imperialist. That has got absofuckinglutely nothing to do with Axl telling his side of the story while Duff and Slash tell lies:



You say... We've heard crappy bootleg recordings of songs... The Blues is a great song, whether it's been released or not. I'm sure you just wanted to bring up the fact that the album still hasn't been released, which is becoming a hobby for you: to stir shit against Guns N' Roses in every fucking thread. Get over it.

I read  your post wrong, my mistake  : ok:

Well Duff posted in a VR forum, just like I suspected he was misquoted here is the link he posted twice so scroll down to check the other post http://www.velvetrevolverforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7764

That is just duff covering his ass because of the backlash on all the forums.

Yea your right, I forgot Duff has a track record of bashing and squashing Axl all the time... damn how did I not see that one!   ::)

I think he should have been more clear about it in his post, like "I never said blah blah blah...", but anyway...

i believe duff, i mean look at the get in the ring song, shit happens.

i dont think duff would be dumb enough to make that comment which was crazy.

In the future though i hope axl haters give axl the same benefit of the doubt.

I agree.  Regarding the particular statement he was ALSO quoted in Bass Guitar World Magazine as saying "we wrote the music without Axl"....
If he wants to CORRECT this particular UNTRUTH he has been quoted as making on more than this one occasion he should make it clear.
But, yeah... whatever... cuz he and Slash are claiming sole rights to the GN'R catalogue in the infamous lawsuit  ::)

 Wow you people type a hella lot... :o you people sound smart to me mabey cuz ur all probably older then me im only 17 (if i say anything dumb,or non related to the subject of the threads -like this  - please 4give me) :)

Some of you confuse me... you have had your knives out attacking him.  When he was reported as saying Axl didn't write the music.  Which actually didn't sound right to any of us - let's be honest

Then he actually takes time out and actually explains the situation and your still fucking attacking him.  What gives you that right?  He is a musician- nothing more,  nothing less.   Infact the question should be why?  I hope your not two faced enough to go and see him live and enjoy his music, shake his hand when u meet him, then come on here and slate him. It's bullshit nonsense.

We all know the press can fabricate what the fuck they like - if it causes a stir, then they will print it.  They may have to apologise for it later, but by then it's too late. People believe what they read and shit sticks. If you have been GN'R fans for a long time like some of us  and have read the mags ect over the years. You will know some of the complete bull shit has been printed about them.

I would never slag them off, when i really do not know them and after all. I am a fan of their music they are not fucking wrestlers.  It's cool that he said hello and it shows what is said on these boards does get heard by them, so if you are happy for them to read your negativity then fine.  But some of us really respect these guys

I knew he would not have said that stuff! : ok:

Do you like MC Hammer? ???

Huh?  ???

I like the fact that he's given an explanation. Most of us have given him shit about it and now comes the apology. This is just another example of the popularity of this site/message board.

That guys name is Hammer 1(i just just wonderin if he liked MC Hammer)

Just an observation...

Having read most of your posts, I don't think you'll last long on this board so you might as well go and delete your account yourself...

Good for Duff.  Nice to know he was misquoted and not a brain dead idiot.

 What are you gonna do kill me so i wont write on anymore threads? Man GnR fans used to be cool and fun .........Now most of  them are old boring and pissy  :no:.Ill do MYSELF a favor and just leave.

Most GN'R fans don't like reading bullshit posts in threads. Stuff like "What does your username mean?" posted in a GN'R thread.

That's all.


/jarmo

Its funny how the Duff thread saying that he did not "bash" Axl is LOCKED.   :rant:

It's locked because we're discussing the same thing here and we don't need 2 threads about it. Board rules...

Not because we don't want people to know what Duff said.

Besides it's in the news of the main site. We're not hiding it...  ::)

I never said you were "hiding" it.  But why have a seperate thread if it can't be discussed?  And dont say it can be discussed IN THIS POST, that defeats the purpose of having a seperate thread.

"I was misquoted". What a pathetic excuse (even if true). Duff should sack up and set the record straight and say what exactly about the quotes attributed to him were wrong. HINT: he would have to say Axl did write music for the old GN'R.

Secondly, I am so f'n tired of these dorky references to the "high octane rock n' roll", etc. that VR is playing. Contraband is a solid album and VR is a nice breath of fresh air on the music scene, but spare us these cheesey, meaningless catch phrases. Seems like every VR member signs off with that crap. Keep provin' it on stage... not in your press releases. Can you imagine GN'R (or STP for that matter) signing off a press release from their primes with some stupid sh!t like that?!? ::)

Ok, my english is probably too difficult for you to understand.

1) WE CAN DISCUSS ABOUT THE MATTER
 
2) IF THERE IS ONE THREAD ABOUT IT, WE DON'T START A NEW ONE

3) THIS THREAD ALREADY EXISTED SO THERE WAS NO NEED FOR A NEW ONE

4) THEREFORE WE LOCKED THAT THREAD SO WE COULD KEEP ON TALKING ABOUT IT IN THIS THREAD

5) WE ARE DISCUSSING IT IN THIS THREAD

6) IF YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN THEN IT'S NOT MY PROBLEM

erm...what do you mean, i still don't get it! ;)? :rofl:




j/k

i think that too. duff probably didn't say this, but IMO he must have said something that goes into this direction. something like that doesn't come from nowhere.

Dude... you are mean... ;D

axl is the man

i'm sorry.  :hihi:

What happened, did his brain explode now too?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.  :hihi:


*Puts on Flame shields to protect self from Dizzy who go on to mention hair bands even though the post has nothing to do with it*

I'm sorry to post very late in this thread but I bumped to it when I was searching for videos.
I have to say that its pretty ridiculus that Duff said that, I mean if Axl didn't create the music then why the blues, madagascar and OMG sounds like Guns N roses?, yeah it's ok that AFD were created by the whole people but I think that at first it's like that or whatever the reason is the point here is that like a band you should bring any opinions. If November Rain sucked then why the hell they seem so happy while played it?? just like reference my fave GNR songs are Breakdown, Locomotive, Estrenged, Double talkin' jive, It's so easy, curiosly most of them written by AXL. so that's what i think of poor old Duff. I hope he has make some thinking about that comentary

Purple Dick, you should have read the thread where Duff was misquoted because he never said that.  Again, DUFF NEVER SAID AXL DIDN'T WRITE ANY SONGS.

That is just duff back pedaling because he was caught in a LIE. He and slash do that a lot.

Duff has said basically the same thing on two other occasions.

Oh and to clarify, like the topic says, Duff claimed a few times that Axl never wrote any of the MUSIC in guns n roses.

Izzy, Duff and Slash wrote the tracks for many GNR songs. Axl usually worked on ballads, and had final say during the production process.

That is not true.
Here is who wrote what for AFD.

This is slash?s formula btw for AFD


Welcome to the Jungle -                 
                                                         
  Music :  Slash, Rose                         
  Lyrics :  Rose                                   

It's So Easy -                                   
                                                         
  Music :  McKagan, Arkeen               
  Lyrics :  McKagan, Arkeen               

Nightrain -                                     

  Music :  Stradlin', McKagan, Rose, Slash
  Lyrics :  McKagan, Rose

Out Ta Get Me -

  Music :  Slash, Rose, Stradlin' 
  Lyrics :  Rose, Stradlin'

Mr. Brownstone -

  Music :  Stradlin', Slash
  Lyrics :  Stradlin'

Paradise City -

  Music :  McKagan, Slash, Rose, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose, McKagan

My Michelle -

  Music :  Rose, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

Think About You -

  Music :  Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Stradlin'

Sweet Child O' Mine -

  Music :  Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

You're Crazy -

  Music : Slash, Stradlin', Rose
  Lyrics : Rose, Stradlin'

Anything Goes -

  Music :  Stradlin', Rose, Webber
  Lyrics :  Stradlin', Rose

Rocket Queen -

  Music :  Rose, Slash, Stradlin'
  Lyrics :  Rose

Wow, good info Dave.  Slash wrote even more then I thought.  Good stuff.

Yeah but if you look overall Axl wrote more than anyone for AFD. 

all these shits are biased anyway.
i mean don't forget we're talking about a group of people. and their rationality is limited.
Music: rose, slash, stradlin' can mean anything.
rose might have done nothing at all, but let say he really liked the song, and ttalked with slash and went "come on, i helped ya writing the music ..."

im serious. they were young and on drugs. i think they weren't that strict on who wrote what. the infamou slash formula can be a load of crap, they were all high and stupid at the time.

we're talking about a group of friends too. it's not like slash will go " no sorry axl, you didnt write any music, you cont get credits for, now shut up "

all this is reeealllly vague and obscure. especially in a alcoholic rock band of the 80s :)

peace :)

the infamous 'formula' was created for business purposes..    with the division of royalties in mind
friendship not withstanding...  they were talking money - they were not too high to remember about the money!

bottom line is duff has on three occasions in the press attempted to downplay Axl's contribution to Guns N' Roses music
even when he came out with his correction/retraction regarding specifically one of those comments he made a point to give Axl 'credit' for only My World

all those who would be quick to allege all the supposed 'axl ass kissing' that goes on... I think its pretty undeniable that Duff has said a lot of really dumb shit in the press.

that really depends on how much each person wrote for each song.
but maybe they did it like my band, one person starts picking a riff, and then one of the other guys have an idea for the next riff, and then someone else notes that they should change a couple of the chords to this and that chord.
thing is, no one knows how these things worked in GN'R. I don't really think it's that important either, they worked as a group, and that's what a band is all about...well, they did on AFD at least.

This was slashs formual for AFD. So its not biased at all. If its biased toward anything its biased toward slash since he came up with this forumal. There is even interviews from this band where they talk about who wrote what, and it mirrors what this says.

AFD is such a guitar heavy record, I dont think Axl was more involved then vocal melodies and lyrics. Axl did a brilliant job with them, but the rest of GNR still wrote the tracks. Also remember that Slash isnt fame or money obsessed and wouldnt care if Axl's included on credits, even if Slash largely writes them. Do you believe Axl told Slash and Izzy how to play guitar on AFD? I dont, besides maybe encouraging a riff.

Remember Slash's agreed formula for AFD- vocal melodies count for much of the writing process. Everyone in the band is ok with this, because Axl was their leader at the time.

Yeah I know but read 18 pages come on give me a break at least I read the first 2 pages, anyway I do think that whatever Duff said, or if he was "misquote" he said something so the rumor started, remember what people say about rumours.  :yes:

I do think that Axl pobably had some input into the music, but not massive amonts. For the people who think it was all All and the rest of the band were just there to play a few riffs to Axl's musical genius - look at the Hollywood Rose demos. They were recoreded 1 or 2 years before Gn'R formed - and for the most part there nothing special. Look at AFD - best album ever. What had changed - the musicians playing and writing with Axl  - and i dont just mean Izzy, casue he was part of Hollywood Rose as well. Slash, Duff and to a lesser degree Steven lit the  sparks of greatness that were in Hollywood Rose but wernt being fully used so to speak.

Duff said axl never wrote ANY of the music in guns n roses. We all know its a lie.  You can even throw out the AFD songs and just look at the UYIs. Like estranged, nov rain, breakdown etc etc. Axl wrote the music on those song no? Nov rain started out as just piano, but I guess slash wrote that right?

I suppose Axl wrote all of the guitar, bass and drum parts to those songs eh? I didnt think so. I never even knew Axl played guitar, bass and drums at that point in time...... And Duff was misquoted - hes already amened what they printed as his words. And before you start jumping on him for backtracking a) the press misprint people all of the time to create contreversy - take Axl for example and b) we all know that certain other members of the band have made statements that wernt 100 percent true.

Duff has said the SAME thing on two OTHER occasions.
Was he 'misquoted' ALL THREE TIMES?

Duff said some dumb ass shit.  Why is that so hard to believe?

Duff may have said some stuff which wasnt true - however im not gonna crucify him for it. All of the old/new members have said stuff which may or may not have been true - take the promises of new material by the Nu-Gn'R for example.

duff  'crucifies' (condemns) himself by the lies and shit he talks.


the album has not been released yet... the guys have talked about new material which does exist and which has been planned for release for years....   them saying there is new material which is planned for release is the truth.  where is the lie?  And where is the malice?  who are they trying to trick and for what alleged purpose?  the answer is that there is none.  they aren't talking shit with some subversive motive. 

duff said what he said to try and take credit away from Axl regarding GN'R's music.

If Axl came out and tried to diminish or deny Duff's contributions to GN'R by saying something like this he would be sporting nails through hand and foot faster than you could say "crucified'!

How can duff have been misquoted when he has been quoting saying it on more than one occasion? And at that point Axl did play guitar, so shows how much you know.

I love how people like you claim duff was misquoted when he keeps saying the same thing. Give me a break.

"We'll be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs" - Axl, Rock In Rio 3, 2001. Are you gonna attack him for saying that lie - or do you reserve the attacks for ex members only?

That is not a lie. How many times does this have to be adressed. Saying something will  happen in the future and then that not happening is not a lie.  Its like saying, im going to go to the store in an hour, then when that hour passes, you dont end up going.

Is that  a lie?

NO.

It is however a lie when you say something in the past didn't happen when it did.

Like this.

I didnt go to the store yesterday but I did go to the store.
That is a lie.

How hard is this to understand?

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=45936&dict=CALD

Definition
lie (SPEAK FALSELY)
verb lying, lied, lied
to say or write something which is not true in order to deceive someone

:rofl:

So if I come on to the board tomorrow and tell everyone CD will be released on August 14th and it's not released I didn't lie

 :rofl:

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

Your definition proves my point and makes you look like a fool. Duff was trying to deceive people by saying Axl never wrote any of the music. Where as Axl telling us he would be back never summer he was not trying to deceive anyone.

How old are you again? You don?t even know what a lie is?
Here is a little vocabulary lesson for you. When Axl says CD should be out next summer or see you next summer those are called intentions, its what you INTEND to you.

Understand?

Go back to school Dave. Of course he was deciving us - saying that hes gonna be back the next year with loads of new songs and then not doing so when he had plenty of opportunity is deciving in my eyes - dunno what youd call it.

Not only that - but im sure Axl has lied at some point during his life - mabye you wouldnt belive that, but its true. We all lie - you just use any excuse to blast Duff. Its not smart of him to go round claiming stuff that aint true - but whats the big deal - hes already said that it isnt true. Has Axl apologise for every lie hes ever made? If not then your argument past saying that it was a foolish thing to do - end of story - is completelty flawed.

Tommorrow im going to release the best album in the history of the world. (It wont happen - but im not lying!)

Oh so when VR cancelled their tour they LIED to all the fans for the shows that were cancelled because they didn't do the shows? And this has nothing to do ?with Axl never lying about anything. It has to do with duff lying about axl not writing any of guns n roses music and you claiming axl is lying when he said he would be back next summer with a bunch of new songs.

So answer me this, did VR lie when they cancelled the rest of their tour? Using your logic yes they are liars, which in turn proves my point even more that duff and slash are proven liars.

Linker and Izzy you can act like a fool all you want but the fact that you are acting like that (oh if i say cd will be released blah blah blah) proves you know that I am correct.

So good day and go back to 5th? grade and learn what lying is. And answer my question about VR.

Did VR lie - yes they said they were gonna play somewhere and didnt. I think mabye your forgetting the 2 cancelled tours and the cancelled RIR4 gig by Axl's new Gn'R though?

Id also like to draw your attention to these quotes from interviews with Axl that are in the articles section from 2001 and 2000 -

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

Loder: When do you think we will actually see this album? Is it possible to say early next year?

Rose: We're hoping. Yes, definitely, everything seems to be going well.

Whats your problem with just admitting your idol has lied to you and other fans before?! Most people would just say - Stupid thing to say by Duff - hes corrected himself - get over it. You seem determind to have him crucified for his comment!

axl's mere ammount of contributions to the guns n' roses music speaks for itself, and for anyone to try to take that away from him is just pathetic. nuff said.

Axl is not lying when he talked about the album release. There was NEVER a set release date, and like I said when he said that those were his intentions. And people like you wonder why Axl has not said a word in a very long time. Its because ignorant people like you claim Axl lies he gives a possible date and then it doesn't happen. Why do you think Axl said back at the VMAS the album wont be out anytime soon. Its so people like you cant claim he is lying. So you and the others like you should get a huge standing ovation because it?s your fault and others like you why Axl does not give us any info.

Yes - im sure Axl reads these boards and says - Oh no! I better not tell anyone about CD or the new band becasue of what Lineker10 might say! Axl's had a history of not speaking very muich about Gn'R - ever since the new band was formed - a few interviews here and there and thats it. And i dont wonder why he hasnt said anything - becasue theres nothing to say, hes still working on the album - no release day in sight and theres still no word on the guitarist situation. Theres nothing to report - thats why he doesnt say anything!

it should be locked anyway

I think the word Dave is trying to find is intention, for the example he made, yet again I could be wrong, anyway everything Duff said or Axl said in the past wether is lie or not is up to them to clarify and not speculate, for Instance I really think Duff did said that to make Axl speak something, but this is just my opinion and will mean nothing until Duff said something about this comentary.  :peace:

its probably misinterpreted

 I used the word intention a few times, go back and read my posts. Intentions are not lies if they dont come true. But duff changing what happened and the past and saying something did not happen when it did is a lie.

I bet the old guys felt the same way and that's why they are no longer in GNR. One thing is for sure, one member of that "band" doesn't have the right to hold the band hostage and demand a new direction of music, especially one who wasn't a major song writer in that band.

If you are looking for the succesful recipe for a unified band, dictation isnt in there anywhere. ;)

Yeah I know what you mean but It's taken from a magazzine and I really don't trust any written stuff about something or someone, cause you know sometimes the information could be edited or anything.
So, let me think naive, ok?  : ok:

Not when duff has been quoted 3 times or so saying the same thing to different mags or interviewers.