Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This has probably been asked before - so I apologize in advance if it has. And, let me just prefice this by saying I'm a die-hard Guns fan, and won't judge Chin Dem by the number of copies it sells, or by how the tour does.
Now, with that out of the way . . . .

What if next year CD comes out, and because of the 10 year delay and interest people have, let's say the CD does reasonably well, selling just about how many copies Vel Rev Contraband did.  Record company can't be happy, if the 10-12 million dollar rumor is true, Chinese Democracy needs to sell more than a million copies for them.
And the tour is about the same as the last one - selling out in cities like New York and Chicago and LA - but in the smaller venues across the U.S., stadiums are 1/2 full. I saw them at the Tacoma Dome on the first stop of the last tour (second stop, but first place they actually played).
Awesome show - but we were able to walk directly into the Dome - no line - walked right up to the beer garden - no line - and then when we heard the opening chords to Welcome To The Jungle, within a minute of that, we were in the front row.   In retrospect, I saw Matchbox 20 recently, and we had to wait in line, and could only get about 20 rows back from teh stage.
What if the critics just rip it apart, all the major magazines and newspapers just rip it apart (I can already see the headlines "We waited 10 years for this?"), the videos and singles get no airplay.

Anyway - so the CDem tour is selling 5-7,000 tickets a night.

They tour for a year, then release the second album (isn't it rumored that 3 albums are going to be done, then years of touring?) - and it does worse than the first one. Say 500,000 copies sold and concert ticket sales are even down more than the first tour.

Does it go on?
Do they release the third album and just play clubs? Or open for a bigger band? Does Axl drop the "new" guys and start over again, just go solo, or rejoin the old guys once Weedland burns out?

Look, I hope none of that happens. I hope and expect Chinese Democracy to come out and kick everybodys ass.   
I'm just curious as to what will happen if it doesn't.

I have to preface what I am about to say with the fact that I am not an unbiased opinion, I worship Axl.  So, it doesn't really matter to me what he does or doesn't do.  Even if Chinese Democracy is never released, it won't matter to me, Axl is still god.  If it is released, and it doesn't do well, if the tour doesn't do well, it won't matter to me,  Axl is still god.  You get the point.

So, with that said,  AFD didn't do well right off the bat, it took a while, the video for Jungle was rarely shown on MTV.  The critics hated GNR, and tore them apart.  All of that didn't stop them from becoming the biggest band in the world.

I don't know if there will ever be a point where the original GNR could ever work together again.  It doesn't matter to me who Axl has behind him, because when Axl is there, he is all that there is. 

It would be nice if the future efforts of Axl and GNR do well, if nothing else, so that the fruits of Axl's labors are appreciated.

I know you are talking in hypotheticals here, but I seriously seriously doubt that the album will sell less than 1,000,000 copies or that, if promoted correctly, the album or tour will fail.  I do think that everyone on this board shoudl stop posting about a 2nd and 3rd album until Axl can get his act together enough to release the 1st one.

If everything bombs (record tour), Axl may never be seen from again.

-TyRod-

For me the record just can't bomb. It will be a success. With studio versions of songs like "the blues" and Madagascar" it just can be a success. I don't see any other possibility than a success. However the tour I have no idea. If Axl acts correctly then it would be OK. But we all know the man, riots and/or no shows may happen with him.

then atlest we got the album and a tour : ok:

:coffee: I thought the album's supposed to be the bomb that shatters the Earth.

Now I think it'll be lauded louder than a bomb.

Well, never mind the bollocks mates.

First of all, we'ave all heard some songs from this album, we know the music is good. Second as far as a tour goes etc... Axl knows this is his last chance, he WILL NOT fuck up.

its not his last chance.

If Vince Neil, Kevin Dubrow and Jani Lane can still tour, Axl can too.

Oh yeah, and they are still superstars

That's what I mean.
Would Axl be willing to do that. 
Put out albums, featuring the exact type of music he wants to put out - if it's only gonna sell 500,000 copies and sell out small venues. Instead of selling 3-5 million and selling out MSG - selling 500,000 and selling out 5,000 seat places.

Obviously, he'd never sink to the Jani Lane of Kevin Dubrow level - but would Axl be content doing the smaller venue thing.  Or would he just say "f*ck it" and sit back and enjoy his money and life?
Seems like he's way to young to just retire.

Like I said - I expect Chinese Democracy to be huge - but you never know.

When a lot of bands go off the scence for a while like Guns have and when they return a lot of people aren't as interested anymore but if guns have the right songs and so on then they could pull it off and I think they can do it because they have a large fan base

I think this is the entire point of the current GNR situation. What if what if what if. The new band rock. I willnot hide my oppinion and think that VR are the sane members of the band attempt to patch this up. Without turning this into a gnr+ vr thing.SLASH,IZZY,DUFF,AND Matt can get this shit together. i don't mean Izzy is in the band but you know what I mean. What the fuck is going on with Gnr? How can the band stay in reclusion for so long. We can all sit here saying how much we love the new band but jesus what are we basing this on 10-20 gigs. Fuck that I want Axl to get off his arse and relase a fucking song.  Before anybody bashes me for this. Afew facts I love the old band (shoot me). I love the new band(shoot me). I really think AXl new work will blow away the current rock scene and VR. I want a single and you know what If Axl does not release one good I hope he has a nice life.  If he does I honestly believe he has the talent ot return to the top. I don't mean the UYI days but so what. Just something would be a glimmer of hope.

Chinese will easily be a big seller. Fuck Green Days new album in 4 years went number on this week with only selling 267,000 copies. Chinese will double those numbers. There are people who love and hate Axl but all have a common bond they love the music he puts out. From what I have heard from the 02 tour Guns will not have a hard time selling records. The reason from empty seats during the 02 tour promotion and no album are to blame. CD will have some huge ballads and ballads do very well on radio and video. Look at Falls to Pieces its doing very very well and its not that good of a song compared to Maddy, or the Blues.

I don't know who is in charge of the promotion/marketing part in Guns n' Roses but he or she does NOT know his/her job. Going on tour without promotion after 10 years of total silence...what a mistake? :-X
If I were the marketing man in the GN'R world you would have a giant GN'R poster on the efell tower in Paris!? 8)

That would be the dumbest thing GNr could do. Why should they go on tour with an Aerosmith type. They are not classic rock. They are a new image.

I want you to copy and save this for me....
When releasing CD and its good, GNR will HAVE NO PROBLEM selling out arenas.

Forget the 2002 tour. It was a joke to begin with , with no backing record.

Again, last tour was a mistake. When they go ahead with Chinese Democracy and the new band and material it will be a different story.

And if they fail on that, then your right they are done

Sorry that I haven't read this thread  :P
Just wanted to point out Axl himself has answered this question. Maybe someone has the exact quote, but it's one of the reasons the album isn't done yet... if it fails he won't care, because he's giving his best.

Chinese Democracy will not fail.  If the tour is actually promoted this time right, other than just on the internet and through e-mail, it will be HUGE.

It's very possible the album could come out and not be great. So much waiting and hype can kill the best of anything in it's own way. We all may think it's awesome and look for reasons to love it while other , more casual fans may just say it sucks.

No matter what people will say it sucks.  I don't care if it has every kind of song that fits every persons personality they will still say it sucks.  Certain people have something against Axl because of the way he is and will hate his work regardless creating a negative buzz.  I know the positive will out weigh the negative so keep waiting and we will all find out that CD will be a work of art.

Guns used to be classic rock, but the new band is trying to be something different, so I don't know where they would fit in.  More so than most bands of their type, they fit in well with harder stuff like Metallica or Megadeth.  I think that a nuGN'R tour with Metallica would be the best thing we could hope for.  Remember that Maximum Rock tour a few years ago that Motley Crue did with Megadeth and Anthrax?  Who'd have thought that the thrash giants would go out with an old glam metal band?  Metallica and GN'R are even closer in spirit, though.  I'm sure they could put aside their differences from 1992 and get on with it.  Didn't Lars Ulrich recently say in an interview that he still respects Axl?

I really don't think that nuGN'R would do any better in a new headlining tour than they would on the first one in 2002, at least not without first releasing the record.  Why?  If I were buying a ticket for a Guns N' Roses arena show, I would be EXTREMELY wary about it.  Everybody read in the news about how Axl bailed on his audience in Philly and Vancouver, maybe they just don't trust him.  Basically, this is something Axl has to redeem himself over.  You can't treat your audience like shit over and over and expect them to keep coming to your shows in such huge numbers.  Sadly, though, I think that Axl is beyond the point of scaling down and playing smaller shows.  His ego is simply too big...playing smaller shows or being the opening act for a more popular group would be a way of saying, "Okay, I admit it, I'm not as big as I used to be."  Axl doesn't seem that humble anymore.  But what artist wants to do that?  It's painful coming down from the top.

One more word about the Aerosmith thing...wouldn't that be coming full circle?  After all, I think that the original Guns N' Roses had their first major tour supporting Aerosmith.

I think that Chinese Democracy the album will do at least as well as the Velvet Revolver record, for three simple reasons:
1) More people are familar with the name Guns N' Roses.
2) The songs we've heard so far are great...at least as good as VR's singles
3) This album has become the  ultimate lost secret of rock 'n' roll.  Even casual music fans are often aware of this great fable of an unreleased Guns N' Roses record.  Hype for the album would only reinforce that, and might stir up extra interest in people.

Everyone keeps saying that "the album will not fail judging by the songs we've heard so far".

Oh My God, Silkworms, and Rhiad are NOT incredible songs... and regardless of whether or not you think these songs "rock", the general public wouldn't accept them, especially from Guns N' Roses.  I wouldn't be so confident about CD being a #1 smash hit, take the world by storm, sold out stadium tour, history in the making type of thing.

Yeah, I don't think the album is going to make history.  But what I'm saying is, I think that with the still-potent value of the Guns N' Roses name (as evidenced by the healthy sales of Greatest Hits), the continuing public fascination with Axl, the myth of Chinese Democracy as being one of the great unreleased albums in rock history, and of course the MUSIC, should all combine to make it at least a formidable comeback effort.

They arent trying ot be anything. They are a new band with a new image. The members in the band do not represent the clasic rock scene.
Agreed. Next GNR will be for the album. Thats why, if its a good album they will have no problem headlining arenas.
He doesnt have to play smaller clubs. WHy does GNR have to play a small club tour? I think it would be cool if they did a few warmups in a few clubs but the tour doesnt have to be liek that the whole way.
Gnr are not as big as they used to be because they dont have any material out. If the material they release is good, they can jump right back in to the arenas and build it back up again.

And the promising thing is that they arent supposed to be thier best songs. Time will tell on that.



It all comes down to the material. If its good and meets or surpasses expectations GNR will have no problem regaining the throne. Will they change the face of music. Highly unlikely. As long as they release a great kickass record thats all I care about. GNR will be fine, they just have to get theior act together in the pr department.

The only thing that could make the album and this "band" flop (it's not a real band but more an addition of musicians) is that people won't identify to this "band". The HUMAN ASPECT is probably as important or even more important as just the music. If the general public sees in the new GN'R a "band without heart and soul" then it's gonna be over and we could already say bye bye to Axl for th next 50 years...

Well as you create a band you usually have to add people to fill out the group
but sometimes they appear magically so I think I see your point

come on...everybody sees they don't act like a "real" band. Members come and go, the money is probably the most important thing for them (for a real band it would be the passion for music),? there is no cohesion, some live in L.A., some in New-York, some are on solo tour, there isn't a whole band identity, a cohesive musical point of vue...it's just like a big job center. Comparing to the old band (incredible chemistry), It's sad.... :no:

Again, we all know that they are not the conventional band in terms of meeting and living in the grime with each other. We all knwo that.

But what we do know is that thi sband has fromed by each member making recomendations on who to bring in. And most of them have been connected prior to GNR. Its not like Axl has gotten the all stars and just plugged them in the band.

Who the fuck cares where they live. WHat does that have to do with anything? They were in the studio for countless hours jamming and making music. That doesnt count? Remember the articles of th eband working in the wee hours in the studios. HOw quickly we forget.

When did I compare the chemistry of new gnr to old? I hate to break it to you but the old members chemistry began to drift at the end. Were you saying anything then? Did you say anything when Axl and Slash used to communicate on the phone about songs? Of course not

Other than not being originally together, GNR are the band in every sense and have incredible amounts of chemistry.  Most of them have been friends with each other prior to meeting Axl and joining GNR. The members have been jamming with each other and helping each other on albums and tour. WHat more do you wnat. DO you wnat them to eat dinner together every night?

Stop being a lil baby. We know this isnt the conventional band. Yea, you think the band is out of loop when they say certain things but they arent. They know a lot more than you or I. ANd right now, what do you wnat them to do. They have already done the most important part, the music, together as a band. Just because they dont control when they are gonna go on tour doesnt mean they arent a band.
Axl controls the business side of GNR. Why is that a surprise or a shock. He did that with the old band too. When the music finally gets released all this pussy they really arent a band thing will diminish. If the members have said or any1 else involved with the project at one time said, its an Axl solo album and he dictates how and what we play, then you wpuld have a right to talk.
But part of the reason why we have waited so long has been becasue Axl wanted to have a band, a real band, not just superstars. And it took time to get that. Now its other shit thats holding it up...not band stuff...

WHen was the last time you heard an 80ish screamy voice on the radio... other than classic rock stations????

Even in the illusion era gnr didn't have a number 1 hit... and this is 14 years later... don't count on gnr getting anywhere close to the top ten in the single department.

The only reason VR have done okay is that they have a modern sounding vocalist.... you don't hear axl type voices on the radio or mtc..

Sorry but CD won't be a smash... it will do okay because of the diehard following, but axl should scale down to 5000 seaters in smaller cites... 15,000 in big cites like New york... and he'll still probably do great in south america, europe and asia ie 20,000.

But don't expect gnr to be eating up the radio or video waves.... axl's voice is great but far from current or commerical

i know because Axls Chinese Democracy/OMG voice wouldnt fit right in to radio

Then why did OMG tank so horribly at radio?

Just asking....

because it wasnt that great of a single

Agreed. 

From the handful of shows, and festival gigs ive seen this band perform on bootlegs and such, they have undeniably AMAZING chemistry together. I love the old Guns N' Roses lineup, but some of their later performances, take the Tokyo Dome Show for exaple just dont get me excited or hold my attention nearly as much as the new band does. I can watch Leeds, Pukkelpop, or RIR3 a couple times a week and never ever get sick of it. There stage presence alone is gripping and entertaining. Each bandmember is so incredibly unique and talented, that i watch in awe all of there performances. The majority of people on here think Axl's voice bombed at the VMA's, well perhaps it did, but the instrumentation and the stage performance and attitude of the band for me covered that up and only made me appreciate the show even more. How can we say this is not a true, real band? Not one of us have been in the studio while these guys have been recording THEIR project together. We have no idea how high their interaction with one another while recording is, or how they mingle outside the studio together over a beer lets say. Alot of you seem to think because some of the bandmembers are off doing their own thing means that they are non-existent as a genuine band. As stated over and over in many interviews, and from my own conclusions, everyones parts are more then likely done. Axl is now producer of this album, he has the right and desire to modify any material on this album to his liking, then call the other members in to evaluate and analuze the changes with their two cents.

As for the album, well I personally hope that it is a huge success because I idolize and praise Axl to no end and working so long, and so very hard on an album like he has would be devastating if it was not appreciated or sufficiently liked and acknowledged by the public and his concrete fan base. It may be hard for alot of you to digest and yeah it even frustrates me but outside here there is a very limited amount of knowledge circulating in the buying public that since the 2002 tour, Guns N' Roses even exists anymore. If the material is good though then all will be forgiven (i hope). From a critics viewpoint, Im sorry but the album will be torn to shreds. Even I am at times critical as to how an album can possibly take or even remotely be worth 10 years or 8 years of hopeful waithing if you want to be precise. It just isnt logical but I am not Axl Rose and that is just the way he is. I think he appreciates all of his fans but this album is for him more then anyone else. I dont believe he has any ambitions or desires to be a Rock and Roll saviour, or reclaim his throne as the top band in the world. Its just not what he wants. I dont care how many copies this album sells, because I know, I will be happy with it no matter what. I dislike no GnR songs, and see no imminent reason why this album cannot be a masterpiece. As for a tour, I really cant predict that. If the material is recieved well, then I think they will have better luck then in 2002, but thats all hopes that Axl doesnt shoot himself in the foot by neglecting a commitment to his fans most of all to perform on time and to the best of his one in a million abilities. :)

The album has already made history! It will sell based on curiosity and brand name regardless of a single.  Even if there was no single released, it would still sell well.  Lots of people are curious about this album and with even a shard of promotion it will do well.  Slither wasn't even that great of a single and yet that album did great!  And please don't say its selling because of Fall to Pieces :confused:

One of the reasons people can say it's not such a cohesive "band" as such.  Is because none of them can give a straight answer about when the album is due out.  Every year we have had the same line about "finishing touches". 

Why can't they say it's not done or it is done....  This is the problem or this is the deadline?   Dizzy and Tommy are almost like polititions hoping not to be asked the dreaded question because they don't have an answer lol

I really hope we are not still here this time next year still talking about the what if's?! CD should have been out 2002.  So much time wasted no matter how good CD is (and i do believe it will blow most people's minds)   it will never live up to the myth it has created.

  As far as "normal" people are concerned it's been in the making since the last original GN'R album.  We the fans Know a bit better, but most people will be interested because of how long it has taken.  And is it as good without Slash and Izzy.

Theres such alot to live up too.  But i would hate it if there was still no sign of it next year - i'm losing interest as it is lol.