Here Today... Gone To Hell!

From reading a couple of the Stinson articles, and his reference to the lyrical side of Chinese Democracy being Socially minded, I'm beginning to wonder how far that will reach.?
Needless to say one of the most striking new songs we've heard is Madagascar- and looking into the past Civil War serves as one of GnR's best.? Two songs that are definitely socially minded.?
And the last time GnR was in the? mainstream....early nineties...it wasn't exactly high political times (from an American prespective) .
I wonder how Axl's socially minded lyrics will be recieved by the public at large today.?
I think it would be pretty intriguing to hear Axl's social commentary today...especially looking at his lyrical past...you get the sense that you don't know where he would fall on the ideological specturm.?
From one in the million (homophobic and racist) as interpeted by some...to anti-war tunes like Civil War.?
And it also an interesting to see how GNR's fan base would react...especially on an American front to socially charged lyrics.? Considering that GNR fans range from rural redneck Republicans to the liberal artsy rock types.? Could this hurt or help the new band...
But this is all speculative of course....for we do not know the substance of Axl's social commentary...but following Axl's career I wouldn't be surpirsed if his social commentary didn't incite some talk, especially from right wing American conservatives.?

One of the rumored album tracks is called Oklahoma.

Who knows what the song is originally about, but I wouldn't be surprised if it could be interpreted in many ways.



/jarmo

I don`t think he will lose any fans.

Regardless of your political stance, why would you stop listening to an artist if they don`t agree with your personal views?

 If Axl has a song called Bush sucks or Kerry is the answer, I`ll still be a fan, even though I don`t agree with him.

Yes there are 2 extremes in US politics. The rural republican rednecks, and you forgot about the  flighty urban Liberal Socialists. BUT that is another conversation...

nowadays it's the left wing critics who trash Axl because they still can't get over the fact that he used the word "faggot" in a song over 15 years ago

when was the last time you heard a "right wing American conservative" bitch about Axl?

Anyway, I always loved how Axl wore the American flag and gave props to this great country. Whatever he does, conservative or liberal, I sure hope he hasn't become one of those America bashing Hollywood nuts. Which I fear he might have judging from the 2002 tour t-shirts, some of which had a communist star over a faded US flag, while others had UN flags on the back. I find this a major turnoff. It's like with Rage Against The Machine. I like their music, but DAMN, these guys are IGNORANT!!! Just going to Harvard and absorbing all the propaganda without doing any critical thinking of your own doesn't really make you educated. I've had enough of that empty Hollywood rhetoric, let's hope Axl has something real to say.

I don't think that's what he meant by it.  I was at the Boston 2002 show and when they went into Paradise City, the big screens on the back showed the American flag in vibrant colors, waving in all its glory.  I doubt he would have anti-America shirts and then have that on the screens.

You find it a "major turnoff" that there's a world outside of the USA and the tour t-shirts meant for places like Japan or the UK didn't have a big US flag on them?  :confused:



/jarmo

Right, here's what Axl said about it:

Another song, called ''Oklahoma'' - heard tonight only as an instrumental - was inspired by a court date with ex-wife Erin Everly. ''I was sitting in my litigation with my ex-wife, and it was the day after the bombing,'' Rose remembers with a wince. ''We had a break, and I'm sitting with my attorneys with a sort of smile on my face, more like a nervous thing - it was like, 'Forgive me, people, I'm having trouble taking this seriously.' It's just ironic that we're sitting there and this person is spewing all kinds of things and 168 people just got killed. And this person I'm sitting there with, she don't care. Obliterating me is their goal.''

Source: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=30

When and where did I say that? :confused:
I'm not even American. I think I'd know there's world outside of the USA  :yes:
And I love the Union Jack. I wear it all the time on Def Leppard shirts. As for Japan, it's one of my favorite countries.
I have no idea what you're talking about :confused: Did you even read my post?

Cool! That's good to hear. I didn't see them on that tour since I had tickets for the Vegas show, but it fell through before that.

"America bashing"? 

What constitutes America bashing?  I suspect anybody who uses such phrases most likely construes liberalism/Bush-criticizing as "American bashing," and probably subscribes to an emptier, even more ignorant rhetoric.  I could be wrong though...

I dont see any of Axls new songs to be political at all...Sure, theres some "political" quotes in "Madagascar," but theres no discernable political message there.  I think its obviously more introspective than social (which I prefer). 

No, it doesn't have anything to do with criticizing Bush. If it was that, I'd be one hell of an America basher too. I'm talking about people like RATM who are communist and hate America and its system of capitalism and democracy.



Yeah, I agree with you about that.

Maybe these countries have attained statehood of US?51st n 52nd. :confused:

I guess the problem lies behind American anaphylaxis to communist shit. Who is still living with Marxism or McCarthyism? Let ideology lie and idiocy die.
Music is for everyone who?s got an ear for it.

ahh, I had the same thoughts too when I read that Tommy article.  Axl can be absolutely incendiary when he wants to, and regardless of whether it leans towards OIAM or Civil War, I am dying of curiosity to hear what he has to say. And not simply because I want to hear something different from a typical love song, but because Axl writes on a personal level and how things relate to him. 

It'll be different from RATM-type lyrics of course because there is the feeling of unpredictabilty as you dont know if it's going to be a Left-leaning or Right-leaning song.


Well, GNR still takes the heat from OIAM. But lyrically, Axl doesnt seem to care about pleasing people - he just writes honestly even if it's ugly and brutal.   So they might lose fans who cant stomach it, but it wont matter to the ones that can.

There's an article in the recent LA Weekly about 'The Return of the Protest Song'.   For some reason, I cant picture Axl writing a typical protest song (like American Idiot).  I think it will zig-zag between Left and Right which makes it even more interesting.  :yes:

great post random Jesse James  : ok:

 :beer:


Okay...thanks for clarifying.

I wouldn't personally stop listening based on an artists political views.? But when thinking of an artist putting their two cents in the political specturm I am reminded of the Dixie Chicks.? After their anti-bush statement, radio stations were having gatherings for country music fans to bring down their dixie chicks cd's and have them ran over with a bull dozer.? (and maybe that's why I could see the right attacking Axl today) There is also an extreme religious right that doesn't want to see anything with sex or foul language in the mainstream media (not that anyone is listening to these people) ...
I am of them opinion that a lot of art is spawned from a reaction to the world we live in by the artist.? So it is important to a lot of fans what their artist stand for...or how they think on a wordly level and not just a personal level.?
Anyways I'm sure Axl's had a lot of time to react to the world in which we live.? So Axl's social voice should be interesting.

Same here, but OIAM is a great example of a song that is both introspective and social.  The most interesting thing about that song is to see people bash certain parts of it, but ignore other parts.   I've yet to see someone who criticizes all aspects of the song equally.  And that exposes the person's bias much more than it does about Axl.

As far as introspective goes.... I'm very curious to see if he will show some humility in his lyrics.  Is it going to be more of 'They're outta get me!!" or will he admit to some fault?   I absolutely love Madagascar, but the lyrics dont admit to any fault.   I just hope that he manages to convey that he has learned some lessons from all this shit that has happened to him.  It will be a lot easier to defend him, then.

"Rural, redneck Republicans."  Sure there are many of those, but the Republican Party certainly is not dominated by them.  In fact, there are a lot of redneck Democrats as well.  Anyway, I agree that Gn'r fans have very diverse political views; all you have to do is look at the arguments on this board.  I sure hope he doesn't make politically charged songs favoring either side though because even though it's his right and he tends to do whatever he wants, it turns off more people than it turns on.  I think most of us are sick and tired of what rich Hollywood people think about politics, because they are not the ones that have to deal with economic problems, poverty, many crimes, etc.  I just hope it's a relevant album though, and I think it will be.

Catcher In The Rye could be one of those special lyrical song

By contraries I?ve been viewing OIAM as a song full of humility.

i agree although i think any humility that can be gleaned from OIAM is indirect. what i mean is that with a protest song (especially the kind of personal protest songs that Axl specializes in) you really are getting a glimpse of someone who feels beat up on, dragged down, and vulnerable. Sure, the expression of the feeling is strength, hostility, aggression but the feeling inspiring it is quite the opposite.
SO, while i would like to see if Axl's new lyrics show some self-reflection and possible awareness and recognition of wrong-doing even if they don't, we still get to see his weaknesses, admitted or not.

if there's a PRO BUSH song in there I would probably skip it.
And I will probably lose respect for axl.

You can be Pro-America, Pro-soliders but Anti-War and Anti-Bush tho. I have a feeling Axl might be that..

Ayla

LOL, I think people have a bigger fish to fry then Axl Rose, as the poster child for saying "fag". I doubt anybody has made a fuss over him for probably 13 yrs? :hihi:. So I don't think the 'left critics' are sitting around 'trashing' him these days as you imagine? :hihi:.

The last time I heard a right winger complain about Axl was probably about the same time I heard a lefty complain about Axl....sometime around 1987-1991....Yea...around that time.... :hihi:

Thanks for making me laugh though!? ?:rofl: :rofl:

Political doesn't always mean one side or the other...it means....political!  :hihi:

Doesn't mean he is going to be holding any one side as the truth and singing about it.

It may just be a loose fitting term defining his broader sense of the world these days. It happens when you grow up.....

Look, Axl has consistently been an enigma with regard to seemingly every aspect of his life...Other than Axl, who's to say exactly how he views current world events?  While the ideas he puts forward in some of GNR's songs are touched by a quasi-political brush,  his lyrics have never been overtly political.  Questions about war, mortality, relationships, conflict, etc...have all been major conerstones of his writing, but I actually believe that his Ego is the thing that makes his lyrics so universal...Axl consciously aspires to tackle the meat and potatoes,so to speak, of human existance....It's his acute sense of the melodramatic that shapes his work...Look at the artists he admires: Queen, Elton John, The Beatles, and so on....Axl's view of rock and roll in general, and songwriting in particular, having been shaped by such larger than life acts, has to be one of immense scope.  In Axl's mind, he writes about the human condition and topics that match the subject matter of the artists he had admired...That's why his music is larger than life and his persona is equally so....Such grand statements are par for the course as far as he sees RNR through his lens.
     His ego is such that when combined with his depth of varying emotions, every trial and tribulation that he endures in his life becomes almost too much to bear.....This is what makes an artist incredible, and what makes their lyrics universal..All he'll probably do, in my expert opinion  ::), is take the underlying emotions caused by the global turmoil of the past few years, relate them to traumatic events in his own life, and filter them through his, apologies for the unintended pun, rose-colored glasses...Sorry for the rant, I'm a douche...

i dont mind social comentary in music along the lines of a civil war, chinese democracy, or a OIAM
i in particuliar dont like artist force feeding you their politics like rage against the machune, pearl jam, and other bands and acts of the sort, which is why also i cant stand alot of the hollywood crowd like michael moore  so while social commentary is fine and can be done i just hope it aint to political

Right back at ya! The fun is all mine actually, because here is at least one article from 2003 where a bitter left wing critic from a mainstream publication savages Axl, says that even Michael Jackson seems sane compared to Axl, gloats about how Nirvana "eclipsed Rose and his band," basically proceeds to tear Axl a new one, and then bitches about how OIAM "depicted homosexuals as immoral disease-spreaders"
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=91

People like you really need to get a clue before opening their mouths. And even when critics don't openly criticize Axl about OIAM, a lot of the time, their antipathy for Axl is in fact fueled by his use of that politically incorrect word.

So long as you feel that way, I would politely ask that you remove the tag-line from under your name and quit the campaigning, as I feel imposed upon by your views......