Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I read how people want 5 guys to make rock music and how GNR are rock music etc etc

NO THEY ARENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *edit* of course they are rock music, im saying they are more than just a rock band, like eebs said how many can go from estranged to right next door to hell to patience to oh my god*
people tend to forget that November Rain was gonna be on AFD, that Axl fought hard to have that on AFD!

Some people make it out like GNR have always been this hard rockin band and like out of the blue started makin ballads and big orchestral shit.

I think axl wanted that all a long.

Some of you want GNR to be ACDC and make the same ole shit over and over and over and over again.

Axl is one of the most talented and most visionary artists ever and i want him to fully succeed and reach his entire potential.

Id much rather have Axl evolve from estranged than to write paradise city part 2. I think its exciting and mystical thinking of all the stuff Axl has done.

Its the only record i am truly psyched about, cause i know he is goin for something majorly new and great.

So i know everyone wants the hard rockin Appetite for Destruction era GNR but i dont, im glad the old band is no more and im glad Axl is attempting to do something thats never been done

So quit tryin to hold axl down and stop limiting him to one genre or style of music and appreciate him for what he is, which is a multi talented artist!

No he didn't, he didn't want it on AFD because it wasn't finished at that time.

This is why I like GNR - there are some bands, whose albums, and even songs, just blend into each other, so much so, you can have a difficult time separating song from song, album for album.  But with GNR, every album is so different and diverse... not to mention the songs!  I mean, compare have SCOM and It's So Easy, Patience with One in a Million, and Estranged with Right Next Door to Hell.  It can't get any better than that!

I couldn't agree with this more.? This is why I Still follow this band, in anticipation of something great.? Axl is aiming for perfection- in a time when many artists just do what they have to, to get the job done.? And as a consequence their music and utlimately the fans lose out.? Axl hasn't compromised his work or his goal because of financial pressure, time, or pressure from fans.? Axl could of have probably made UYI III in 1995....and the world would of cared less....but instead Axl is taking his time to make something truely great, something that is actually worth waiting for.

They're not rock music ???


I don't think this is true. Axl spent Ages perfecting this song, it was really his baby. One of the reasons the Illusions took a while to come out. He even went as far as saying he was going to quit the music business if NR didn't end up sounding exactly what he wanted it to sound like in the end.


In many ways, he probably did.


Yep, there are those who wanted this.


Along with the fact that you don't think GNR is rock, here you sound as if you believe Axl is going to create a brand new musical genre...

in guitar one magazine mike clink says:

"the one song that was a point of disagreement was "November Rain," It was an epic, but the rest of th band felt it wasnt right for the first Guns record-they wanted to keep it guitar oriented.? Obviously, Axl felt it was his finest moment, and it was, it's a great song.? That was one of the tougher hurdles to get over on that record."


sounds to me that it was ready,same as Dont Cry but they kept it guitar oriented, my point is people are like "gnr sold out, they started doin this bloated keyboard,horns shit"? but fuck move to the city had horns on it and it was done what? 1986?

I may be the only person that preferred the 976 horns era of GNR, i think its a great fuckin spectacle and adds so much to the ballads, listen to November Rain at st louis riot show, its pretty bad due large in part to the horrible backin vocals by the band, i know im in the minority here but i like that era of GNR the best!


let me clarify, GNR are not only a rock band! sure they are rock music, im saying they arent just rock music. sorry i shouldve clarified that better.

Great Thread!

The reason why I am so excited for CD is because it is going to be different and more experimental than previous GNR records. I don`t think he could have done it with the old band. If you don`t move forward as an artist, you eventually become a novelty act,  singing the old hits like Elvis in Vegas or Poison. Axl is not an entertainer, he is an artist.

Hey D - Respect to you man!!

I couldnt agree with you more! However much AFD grabbed me by the balls in 1987 to the world of GnR. It was most definetely the later GnR era that had me completely blown away. I think between 91-93 Axl  took them on in a huge way with his lyrics and vision! He moved on from the style that a lot of people didnt want him to leave behind, but I think he had to otherwise it would have kind of died there and then. That is why, I for one cannot wait to see what is gonna happen when the album drops. I just cant help but think that it is gonna blow music right out of the water!!

I adore the Illusions album - and if Axl want's to make an album more in that vein he won't get any complaiants from me - more songs like 'Estranged' and 'Coma' are what i'm after

That is probably why all of us are here.  We all think that Axl has it in him to create a real work of art here (even if some would like him to do it under another name).  I think that is why we all check this board everyday if possible.  That doesn't mean we agree with the way he goes about it sometimes.  I'm not sure what the problem is with someone voicing their displeasure with Axl's methods or approach?  I think he has done things rather questionably even since we have known of him.  And a record full of 9 minute orchestrated songs may not appeal to some (<----- me).


True we hope.  But he may be paranoid about getting it perfect that he compromises it because of that.  I hope not, but it is possible.

-TyRod-

Then why on the making of the videos does axl say:
"I knew november rain wasn't finished, and I didn't want anyone to help me write it"?

Agree with ya man. This album will be awesome with no certain type of rock music, all different styles. It will be great. I'm glad that Axl is doing it right.

Good thread. Like the last comment. There is nothing wrong in criticising Axl and new GNR (and their actions) if it is constructive.

I love GNR because of the huge variety in material. I agree that November Rain and Don't Cry weren't right for a first record - you've gotta announce your presence with that first record and so an all-out sex drugs rock n roll record was a big statement and sounded like no other, nov rain and dont cry wouldve only softened that blow. also, take a listen to the godawful cheesy, boring demo on the dont cry single with steven drumming. You can see how the sound wasnt quite right yet.

I love GNR's diversity and love that they still sound like GNR (if that makes sense). There's Axl's voice, Slash's guitar sound etc throughout the diff material.

The other point is, that I don't want to restrain Axl, I just wish Slash wouldve been willing to try different styles and advance too, cuz ill miss the sound he had on estranged, and rockers like nightrain. But unlike some, I still want a few rockers in there. I want the diversity, u know?

Tommy said in a recent interview that there were arguments b4 over which songs made it on to the old albums and that some wanted axl to sing their songs etc - maybe its not just slash though? maybe izzy wanted axl to sing his songs and he wouldnt? i dunno, just speculation.

I'll stop now, cuz my point is gradually getting lost in this ramble! lol

Bob

true adz but in the end he did have help writing it, i think we can all agree that november rain wouldnt be timeless if not for slash's brilliant guitar work. It would be an amazing song still but slash's solo's are perfect and some of the greatest solo's of all time which makes me scratch my head when listening to VR, i love VR but those solos make me wonder.


i think axl felt the old band peaked, that they could do no better than what they did on the illusions but axl wasnt finished evolving so he had to find others to take him higher to the place he wanted to go.

November Rain probably wasnt finished which is ultimately why it didnt go on appetite, still didnt mean at the time axl wanted it on there, on the makin the video he was a little older and wiser and probably saw that mike clink and the band were right but in that moment in time im sure he wanted November rain in some form to appear on AFD

in any band im sure u never know if u will get another chance, so for all axl knew AFD couldve been their only record and wanted to make sure he got his life's statement on it.

Of course it all worked out in the end.

For those worried about 18 coma's and 18 november rains i dont think that will be so, he may have epic stairway to heaven type rock songs, im sure there will be kick ass rockers on there, tommy said they had rockers more in the old gnr vein but just deeper lyrics

so im optimistic that axl is taking so long because he wants to please the appetite fan, please the illusion fan and please the newer fans and most importantly please himself which explains why it has been such a long process.

Well, I?m afraid I evidently love GNR of this ERA best. I live today and will be tomorrow.
And I?m sure many of us will.

I won?t hate it if they create a brand new musical genre.:headbanger:

No, Axl didnt felt the old band had peaked... He felt they didnt put much effort into his vision (like what he said about Slash in the press release). I prefer the GNR without the horn section and stuff but i loved gnr because of their musical diversity and not repeating them over and over on the albums. Hope this can keep up in CD.  : ok:

you know.. i agree with what has been said in this thread.. but i guess i'm just one of those sad people who would be pleased if CD ended up being an hour long axl rant..

Axl should do whatever his artistic vision tells him to do. However, you cannot expect him to keep the same fanbase if he starts writing 10 minute ballads only. I really like the Illusions songs but you can't limit people, if they don't wanna hear it..they won't hear it.  If people think the songs are sappy, there isn't much anyone can do.

Im an illusions fan myself, izzy duff and slash are cool but they only want to do the same ol' rolling stones acdc aerosmith kind of songs that last 3-4 minutes....AFD is great and all but I love 10 minute songs that have different rhythms tempos, etc...Its like a ride...Contraband is boring in the fact that its just another rock record....*ps: I own contraband* that's one of the reasons why Im glad they went different ways...axl can do his thing now and the others their thing. And we can have both.

I haven't posted in long time, and I don't know why I am now, but I think that this topic entrigued me. I think a lot is summed up when Slash was interviewed by much music when VR came here earlier this year. He said something along the lines of; 'I wish he would just release the album.? After all it's just a fucking rock-in-roll record.'
I would say that this is why Slash is no longer in the band any why Contraband is nothing great. JMFO

Contraband is the best basis for this argument here.


i love variety, give me 8 rockers, 5 midtempo regular length songs and 5 epics!

contraband 10 rockers 3 ballads just gets hard to swallow especiallysince the rockers blend together so much.
Contraband is a good record but honestly there isnt but maybe 2 great songs on the whole cd which are the ballads lta and ygnr, none of the rockers are anything special, slither did in my opinion turn out to be the best rocker

i think contraband proved axl's point how the old band wanted to just put something out that was easy and not very focused, didnt slash say it took 3 weeks to do the music to contraband?

I hold slash to a very high standard since i consider him one of the top 5 guitarist ever but listening objectively every solo on contraband is more "so fine" than estranged,scom,NR,paradise city,dont damn me,kohd, etc etc etc? slash can do better!

only thing i can compare it to is if axl's best lyric on CD only compared to say yesterdays or dead horse, those songs have ok lyrics, they are good but still we'd be a little dejected if they were on par with those same with slash on CB there are some ok moments that would be good for most guitarist but not the high standard that is Slash!

People don't want to limit Axl, they want to hear the freakin album.

there are those who use the overproduced argument,the bloated argument etc etc etc
i personally think it will be a great variety of new and old with an updated sound and awesome lyrics.


I think alot of times artists get in writing mode for 6 months and write all the songs for the record, well u burn out eventually and run out of ideas which is why u get 3 or 4 hits and then some filler

why cant every song someone writes be a hit? i mean if u can write 3 or 4 hits why cant u write 12? so i honest to God think axl has had seperate writing sessions then lengthy breaks to regroup on creativity and we are getting one big greatest hits album that we've never heard yet

ive been sayin this since last year and i honest to God think is the reason things have took so long.

Yeah but if you were Axl, and have been out of the spotlight, and have something to prove, would you release something you weren't 100% happy with? You would be kicking yourself in the ass if the album failed, saying I should have done this or that. I wouldn't release something on the grade of contraband. It's just sub-standard.

It's people close to Axl and old members who are holding up Axl. It's clear that no one wants to be a part of what Axl is trying to do. I think with bringing in new guys that sadly nobody has giving a chance yet but it's a great decision by Axl to do that. Yeah Slash is great but sometimes he's shady with gnr and axl. I really don't care I always perfer that gnr went out like it did. God only knows they would be like Aerosmith or metillica  these days  :D

Good topic.

I too am mystified by the amount of fans that want a record that sounds "exactly like AFD." Where's the growth in that? I've loved most of the new songs, and the fact that they are all so different from eachother bodes well for CD - I've been listening to the UYI records a lot lately, and the sheer variety on both albums is great. GNR is simply pushing the boundaries further, and I couldn't be happier.

what makes me optimistic is i already consider the blues to be a top 5 gnr ballad of all time and its suppose to be a filler so that alone really feels me with confidence

really the only song ballad i would take over the blues is estranged and maybe scom but really thats it!

where as no VR songs are better than even the worst of gnr songs, the blues probably would be in my top 15 of all time gnr songs! considering its a live recording and non studio thats pretty amazing!

While I agree with most of your points in this thread, I hope this is a serious exageration!
You can't honestly think 'My World' or 'Silkworms' are better songs than 'Loving The Alien' or 'Slither'?

lta is my fav song on contraband i consider it better than

think about you
anything goes
youre crazy
use to love her
youre crazy acoustic
dust n bones
live and let die
dont cry
perfect crime
you aint the first
bad obsession
dtj
the garden
garden of eden
bad apples
dead horse
14 years
yesterdays
shotgun blues
get in the ring
pretty tied up
so fine
my world
silk worms
chinese democracy
rhiad


i find loving the alien to be amazing

but most of the rockers would be better than maybe 2 or 3 on that list!

Some people just don't want things to change.

Since they liked AFD, they're hoping to get something similar. The problem is, it's not 1987 anymore and things have changed.


/jarmo

The problem is: they already changed the sound in UYI's, why expect the impossible? Sure, it could be this way if the old line-up were still togheter, but that's not the case.
Anyways, great topic. I agree with nearly everything D said. Good words, dude!  : ok:

In a span of 10 years, I would rather have 3-4 Contraband like albums, then no album at all...and by no means is contraband sub-standard....it might not be great but it is good/very good

But their seats of hearing sense have frozen on 1987 ever since?

ill have to respectively disagree liquid

ill wait 12 years for one life changing just unbelievable cd hell ill wait 15 years for just one more song that moves me and makes me feel the way estranged does

so yes id rather wait than have 3 or 4 contrabands, ive listened to contraband for about 3 months straight now and im almost tired of it already so i dont want 3 or 4 contrabands, ill wait on axl cause i think its gonna be worth it!

And he didn't think the band were mature enough to pull that track off at the time!

And D, I couldn't agree with you more. A mate of mine who doesn't like GnR tried to tell me their songs all sound the same. I laughed in his fuckin face!

I agree with D, I'd rather wait for an amazing record than just have them put out a mediocre one. I like contraband but there's no way I'll still be listening to it in 16 years like AFD.

I believe in always reinvinting your music because peole will get bored of it soon.

Agreed.? AFD is truly an amazing record that has been in constant rotation in my music collection.? I don't think Contraband has the same kind of long-term staying-power.? It's great to listen to sometimes, but 10 years from now, I doubt I'll be listening to it very much.? I have no doubt that I'll still be listening to AFD.?

That said, I don't want another AFD.? AFD is great for what it...an explosive, well-thought out record that was perfect in 1987.? It's by far my favorite GNR release to date.? Nevertheless, I love it when Axl pushes the envelope and creates something with true long-term staying-power (Estranged comes to mind).? Unlike a lot of other bands that stick to the same old formula, GNR has evolved and consequently the music reflects much greater depth.? The Blues and Madagascar reflect this evolution.? ?: ok:? Just my personal opinion.?

fuck 16 years.. i stopped listening to it the day i got the Hollywood Rose album (june 23rd) and i havent heard a lick of contraband since.. except for the fall to pieces video..

you know.. the things tommy said about the new songs really gets my hopes up.. also all this wait is building up a crap load of hype.. and from past personal experiences, when i'm very hyped about something, i guess its bad luck i guess but the end product never lives up to the hype.. hopefully this streak of bad luck will end with CD..

I laugh when I think about the way people get themselves worked up over this CD that has been amongst the missing for the last 4-5 years. How is anything going to live up to your expectations??
I'm also sick of the +3000 music experts that throw around their (unwanted) opinions of Contraband. It's great that you've been listening to Contraband for three straight months and got sick of it, but unfortuantly I've been reading your posts for about a year, but got sick of them alot faster. Why do people have to try and pump up their point of view on Axl's talent by attacking a CD that got released, gets great airplay, and is a favorite of rock fans. We know what Axl is capable of, but for those of us who aren't waiting for a CD the "Changes the World" the delays just get old. No one is trying to limit Axl's creativity, but what could be taking +5 years. A 16 track cd with 16 attempted Epics just seems very unrealistic, as well as shoe-in commerical flop. (sorry for my unsolicited unwanted non-expert opinion, but I didn't start the thread)

"ill wait on axl cause i think its gonna be worth it!" - if that wait doesn't work for you in the end let me know, I have a nice bridge for sale in New York.

so u think contraband will be better than chinese democracy?

if u take that bet u already lose dude cause "The blues" alreadysmokes everything on contraband!

If chinese democracy doesnt live up to my expectations ill be the first to admit it right here but madagascar the blues and those are suppose to be filler album tracks?

How can anyone bet against axl honestly?

Contraband is a good cd but its not a classic standin the test of time cd and isnt anything better or different than the other mainstream,modern rock stuff out today.

Well i prefer AFD because it's just so easy to listen to and it just rocks. I play guitar and that album is just bluesy rock guitar all the way through. I wanna pick my guitar up and play every fuckin song when i hear it. The guitars controll the music..Axl is second to Slash..he waits for him to finish unleashing his guitar ability before he lets loose with his awesome lyrics.

Though i also love The Illusion albums. They were so different and very good at the same time. But i wish they limited the use of Piano on it. I want to hear more louder guitars. The Piano is the one that controlls the flow on these albums...and the guitar on most songs is just a quiet Rythm in the background until Slash takes a Solo. I want that guitar to be louder and more important than the Piano...an incredible waste of Slash's talent. That's why we all see Ycbm, Back Off Bitch, Don't Damn Me as the ones that are closer to AFD sounding era GN'R. I wish Axl had limited the use of Piano and let the Guitars take a bigger importance. Can u imagine massive guitars...axl's brilliant lyrics..so deep and meaningfull with a piano in the background. Ah well that's the way i would have prefered them but i love them the way they are.

I play guitar too but there's a world outside the guitar players. I feel the same way sometimes, but the duet with Axl's piano in Estranged makes Slash shine even more to me. And they want to change a little, no big deal... Even VR had some ballads like YGNR and LTA, it's not "an incredible waste of Slash's talent" - those are the tow best tunes in Contraband, for me.
D is right, The Blues and Madagascar are the proof that Axl wasn't kiddin' when he wanted something more than a straight rock album. I think he's still in the right way to make good music.

i like axls ballads way morew than contraband but i enjoy contraband i think axl should do what he wants even if that is an album of all whistling (all though I wouldnt buy that) but i wouuld want gnr to progress and grow rather than do AFD 2, I enjoy epic songs so, im glad at what tommy said about the epicness of the new songs

me too. I love epic songs! (november rain, estranged, bohemian rhapsody, stairway to heaven etc....), I really love long epic songs with progression.