Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This is in no way meant as a contest of who's the best: GNR or VR. Neither is it a bash-topic. I love 'em both.

That said, here's my question:

Which one do you think of as better than the other one?

I was thinking about them today, comparing them. But I love the songs both so much it was hard for me to decide which one I find the best. So to me, they are on the same level. Which kinda surprised me, since there has never been a song that could even come close to a GNR song.

What do you guys think? Do you feel the same or do you think I am totally crazy?????

Sure thing


Oh dear - that didn't last long, i thought this wasn't a VR v GNR thread?


Lol, Loving the alien and Don't cry, same level? Sure thing......


Of course i don't.... :nervous:

Don't Cry was written to be a hit, LTA wasn't. Don't Cry has more hit-structured vocal melodies and chords and song structure, LTA does not. IMO the beginning of LTA is much more interesting musically than anything in Don't Cry, but the VR song doesn't have a peak like DC and from the middle it's a bit... I don't know... it loses its curiosity and smartness, not to mention that Slash made better solos for the other two VR ballads and IMO even DC has a better solo. So I think DC is better, but YGNR surely beats Don't Cry. It's my opinion, not a fact. De gustibus non est disputandum.

Although I like both songs,  I think that Don't Cry is better than LTA.   Don't Cry just has that true ballad feel where as LTA doesn't.  The Don't Cry solo is better than the one in LTA (even tho i think that the LTA solo suits the song very well). 

And no..ur not totally crazy...it's a tough decision..both great songs

Really?  You know this how?  Wasn't Don't Cry the first song GN'R ever wrote?  Do you really think 5 drug addicts highest priority was writing a hit at that time?  Especially seeing as it seems to be primarily an Izzy/Axl song, and we know what Izzy thinks of fortune and fame.

In the making of Don't Cry video, the band are talking about how the crowds used to respond to that most in their club days and they (the band) knew it was gonna be a hit. Plus there are 2 versions if i'm mistaken, so maybe he meant that they altered it abit to become a hit. Maybe that's what Mikkamakka meant.

Well, the only difference between the two is the lyrics, so I can hardly see how they altered it to become a hit, especially when the alternative version is the one least people like.

And there's a difference between knowing it's gonna be a hit when the crowd have heard it, and writing it, specifically to become a hit.

Thanks for the help, Matt  : ok: I didn't mean it wa written to be a Top10 hit, but as I stated it has the classic 'slow hit song structure', and yes, I'm sure that when they wrote/rewrote it, they wanted to write a really popular song. IMO it's the only GN'R song of the type. And don't forget that when they wrote it, Izzy couldn't have known what fame is. Listen to his album, he haven't written a similiar song since then.

I like Loving The Alien ALOT better...

Don't Cry in the day was good but I don't think it stood the test of time.  I never listen to it anymore, Axl's over dubs are horrible and the lyrics are your typical cheesy love ballad. I do like the music though. I played LTA at work the other night and everyone here loved it. I am not making that up either, everyone wanted to know who it was.

Wasn't Don't Cry also ripped?

I don't know for sure but I read somewhere a few years ago that some singer/songwriter form the 70's said that he wrote it. And that a judge agreed and that Axl settled it out of court? Anyone knows more about this?

dont cry the original is somewhat over rated

calm down gnr freaks its true

the lyrics to the original are average however the alt version is amazing

loving the alien is better than dont cry

there i said it!

the way i interpret both songs loving the alien hits me harder than dont cry


however the blues is 10 times better than both songs!

Hell yeah, only Estranged can top that one (ballads that is....)........

im sorry... i just find the word : sometimes is all the time and never means maybe...
so then he starts to use the words sometimes and never in the song, are you sposed to see/understand them as allthe time or maybe? and the lyrics doest do a shit for me...

so no further *gough* i pick Dont Cry as a fav. before any slowed paced VR song......

i get more out of "sometimes is all the time and never means maybe" than anything on dont cry


as read sentences loving the alien makes no sense

i relate LTA to shit in my life, for instance when i was suicidal and in my great blue funk for 2 years i can ask the questions and the lyrics are the answers

do u ever think of killing yourself?? sometimes is all time

would u ever do it? never means maybe

the song when related to certain situations takes on a completely different context, however just reading it as literal written word its rubbish


Dont cry alt version is amazing, ive never dug the original as much

just the part on the alt version
"and when u are in need of someone my heart wont deny u, so many seem so lonely with no one left to cry 2 babyyyyyyyyy"

thats powerful

the original doesnt really do it for me

its almost like as GNR fans we hold GNR songs up on a high pedestal where nothing can touch them and we cant really dissect them to see that some GNR songs arent all we make them out to be.

i guarantee no matter how great CD is, or no matter how great Contraband is or could have been, most people will never openly admit any songs being better than original GNR songs even if they are far superior

The Blues is the 4th best gnr love song ever behind estranged,SCOM and november rain but most people wouldnt rank it as high just out of loyalty

You Got No Right i agree is better than alot of GNR songs but no one would admit that!

I agree with you on the fact that it's really hard for the hardcore fans (incl. myself) to ever find music, or the ability to admit that, that's better than the original GNR.

I don't think that YGNR is that great. It starts out fantastic and the solo is the best on the entire CB album. But the chorus isn't that great. It just doesn't get to that "overwhelming" point where you get a total adrenaline shot throughout your body. Just my opinion.....

It's unfair to compare something we are really into right now with VR to something we've been listening to for 13 years lol

No surprise here, I think LTA is alot better than DC.  IMO it has a better solo and you can't even compare the lyrics.  I could have written the lyrics to DC.  And that part at the end of DC where Axl holds that note forever (well let's face it a computer holds that note forever) is lame and a prime example of over-production.  DC has never been one of my favorite GNR songs.

LTA is my favorite slow song on CB.  I just love the part that goes "I never knew how lovely were the aliens, lovely were the aliens."  That being said, I prefer the rockers (both GNR and VR) to the slow songs. 

-TyRod-

I think YGNR is the best ballad.

but YGNR and LTA definitely have the best lyrics

Yeah, I think the same. My mother who listens radios 8 hours/day can run out of the world when she hears the ending. She calls it 'disabled coffee machine'.  ;D

i think axl can hold that though, i have done it twice in my whole life and its damn near impossible, but hell axl's opening VMA scream is fuckin long as shit also, im sure he couldnt do it live but its possible that he can do that

i believe also it was studio magic but i do think he has the capabilities to pull it off


i do love dont cry, dont get me wrong, its amazing, right now i like LTA better, now 10 years from now or 5 years from now, i may like dont cry better but right now LTA is a song thats a couple levels below on estranged

when im down and feel bad had a fight with the lady or whatever, i actually find myself putting on YGNR,FTP and LTA

Don't Cry is way better than LTA, the only song that gets close to it is YGNR which sounds a little dissapointing on the album.

The problem with LTA is that it sounds too repetitive, the lyrics are also very simple and could've been written by anyone let alone Scott Weiland. As with most songs off CB its Slash that pretty much saves their credibility.

And "Dont Cry"s lyrics arent simple?

Well, considering the fact that Don't Cry is one of my all time favourite songs... my answer may in fact be somewhat biased. 

With that being said, my choice is definitely (duh! :)) and always will be... drum roll please... Don't Cry.

I never used to like LTA at first, but after listening to it yesterday, I like it more and can relate to the lyrics.  That said, Don't Cry has always been one of my favorite Gn'r songs.  I would rank Don't Cry above LTA, but not by all that much.

Dont Cry is the prototypical made for MTV cheesy love ballad. That did nothing GNR's reputation, mostly because its a love song. At the time Axl wasnt showing much love for his Gf's anyway, so i dont know why they wrote this. Fake emotions-fake lyrics-made for MTV. The alternate Dont Cry is probably Axl's true feelings, so i like that version much better.

LTA is good. Definately more modern, so it probably isnt fair to compare them.

Don't Cry hands down but I do LTA but Guns will always be number one for me

Loving The Alien is a better song in general, I like it a lot more.

The music is very diverse and it has a nice little swing into the chorus. Great song!

Loving the alien

I dont think the last note sang by axl at the end is studio magic, he could do it to be honest, he's a preoffessional singer : ok:I gotta say damn LTA and Dont cry are so close I cant pick one :no:

Maybe they wrote it back in 1986 when that stuff was happening to them?
If you think GNR would write a song to get on MTV, you have another thing coming.

I think the Demo version of LTA is magical so it's hard to pick one but I'd have to go with Don't Cry out of pure sentimental value.

Um, go get some old boots. Axl holds that note just like on the album. Its not going to sound as clean or annoying as the album version, it sounds better actually live. He does the same with songs like patience, scom,ycbm and prob a few other that I cant think of right now.

Loving The Alien is a great song it?s just not as good as Don?t Cry .

My pick Don?t Cry

I'll take Don't Cry, which is one of my favorites from UYI. I like Loving the Alien but it's a matter of intangible 'feel', and Don't Cry works better for me.

I like Loving the Alien  myself it's an awsome song. Although that opening part of  dont' cry is just great. I also like that shannon hoon is on the back up vocals. Plus the video kick ass too : ok:

Don't Cry

He probably could but he didn't. You can here the split if you listen closely.

Don't Cry is better than LTA...
YGNR is better than both of them..

I'm totally confused ..... But it's all so FUCKIN GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like DC more.Concerning the long lasting Axl note, I think he did this:he recorded on track with his voice lasting as long as posible, the he recoreded another one that started when the othere voice died, and like that unitl the last time that he does this low voice that closes everything.





Baby Slash//

'Don't Cry', not contest.  'Loving The Alien' sucks compared to it. Axl defiantely did hold that note at the end of 'Don't Cry' by himself without "studio magic." If you watch the Santiago, Chile '92 concert, at the end of 'Wild Horses' he does basically the same god damn thing. And for people saying the lyrics arent that great, well, it was his first god damn song, thats pretty good for a first song. You can see that he had improved just by listening to the alternate lyrics (yes I like them better.)  Scott has been writing songs for years and his lyrics still suck, anyone can write lyrics like that. Nothing Velvet Revolver has done or will do will ever touch anything GN'R has done. Slash and Duff got the bad deal here, they went from the best singer and frontman in the world to Scott Weiland.

Temper Temper little one...... Your opinion is fine, but LTA does not suck comopared to DC.  Axl definately uded "Studio Magic" at the end DC.  That's not saying he can't hold a note that long because I know he has... I got news for you, the 2nd DC lyrics were better than the first but they are both lame. I think Slash and Duff got a great deal and so did the fans. Instead of sticking with Axl and being stuck in the studio for over a decade, they get to play music live for us, record music and have fun. I think they and the VR fans are pretty damn happy with Weiland.

1. Axl did not write Don't Cry-that is why the lyrics are so simple and cheesy-has Stradlin written all over it. Axl's love songs are a little deeper and more negative in general. Axl probably helped with Don't Cry but Izzy has the main writing credit. 2. Don't Cry stinks stinks stinks-it drops Gnr in to the hair metal category and should have been left on the shelf-maybe released as a b-side, along with Back Off Bitch, Get in the Ring, My World and Shotgun Blues (unnecessary petty songs). 3. I would take Loving the Alien overall even though it kind of fell flat with me after a lot of listens. Great solo by Slash and the musical arrangement isn't as cookie cutter as Don't Cry. Just my two cents.

I am for sure! Too bad Izzy isn't with them though. He wrote some of my fave GNR tunes....ah, well you can't have it all...

yeah, Izzy mostly wrote Dont Cry, hence it has nothing to do with Velvet Revolver and is not a fair choice for which ones better, but Dont Cry (alt) is my pick : ok:

I would rather compare Dont Cry to Fall To Pieces. Fall To Pieces is a Dont Cry sort of song.

I personally would take the demo version of Don't Cry over Loving the Alien anyday.  There is so much raw emotion in that version that can't be captured and it doesn't have the cheesy overdubs. It really is a beautiful GNR moment.  Loving the Alien is a cool song but it just kinda played itself out on me i guess.

About the fake feeling, thing take a look:
( Taken from www.gnrinfo.tk/ )

Axl: I was sitting outside the Roxy, and you know, I was like really in love with this person, and she was realising this wasn't going to work, she was doing her things, she was telling me goodbye, and I like sat down, and just started crying, and she was telling me 'don't cry'. Next night we got together and wrote the song in 5 minutes. He'd been through some things with her, himself.

Axl: It was [about] a girl that Izzy had gone out with, and I was really attracted to her, and they split up, and we wrote the song.

So, fake feelings, ha?





Baby Slash//

lol

Still ill go with Don't Cry (original).

I love Don't Cry and definitely prefer GNR to VR but I think I'll have to go with LTA.
It's my fave VR song.? :)

Me too I think.  I love Dirty Little Think and Loving The Alien the best......

LTA is just average its not even close to dont cry, either version.
And saying LTA was not written to be a hit is bullshit.
Every song on VR album they were trying to make a hit.
Give me a break, just when I thought i have read it all, you get a thread like this.
What is next, falling to pieces is better than nov rain  :rofl:

Axl wrote the ALT lyrics to dont cry, izzy wrote the orginal.

Btw since ur bashing get in the ring, you know its not an axl song right?
its a duff song  : ok:

What the fuck is wrong with you? You think this guy wouldn't have said he thought GITR should be a B-side if he thought Duff wrote it and only said cause he thought it was an Axl song???  Is this part of your paranoia that everyone is out to get you and Axl???? The guy is obviously an Axl fan being his name is Madagas and at the beginning of his post he is saying that Axl's lyrics are deeper than Izzy...

HEY EVERYBODY!!!! JUST INCASE YOU DON"T LIKE GET IN THE RING...........IT"S DUFF"S SONG, NOT AXL'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LTA blows Don't Cry away......

Dave knows I 'm an Axllite and if I had to choose any version of Don't Cry I like the ALT lyrics much better. : ok: However, as a song, I just don't like Don't Cry-simple as that. LTA has a Bowie feel to it that catches my attention. Don't Cry has a hair metal feel to it. As for Get in the Ring, every part of the song is embarrassing but Axl's rant is the low point of his career in my opinion. Someone with the success Axl had attained at that point didn't need to stoop so low. Same goes with parts of Shotgun Blues.  :-[

After AFD put GNR a "cut above" the other LA metal bands, the likes of "Don't Cry" (and for that matter, "November Rain") sunk them to the depths of the rest hair metal, no better than Poison's "Every Rose Has it's Thorn", Skid Row's "I Remember You" and the Crue's "Home Sweet Home".  All crap.

I don't care for LTA whatsoever, but it's light years better than Don't Cry.

It's not even close IMO.

Now, Falcon, I wouldn't put Nov Rain in there. It is not your cup of tea however, most consider it an epic along the lines of Layla and Stairway. Sure, some people make fun of it, but they also make fun of Stairway. It is a classic rock song with a wicked ending, whereas DC is clearly a sunset strip hair metal weeper. Big difference in my humble- well educated- epic rock ballad opinion. ;D

So I guess LTA and YGNR sinks VR to hair metal right?

yes since the other songs he called petty songs were written by axl.

and LTA is just boring as hell and makes VR sound like hair metal.
BLAH.  VR is very mediorce.

Dave, 1. I sold the VR album after 2 weeks. 2. LTA and YGNR don't sound anything like hair metal musically, more llike Bowie and the Beatles-obviously inferior versions of these two artists although I do like the musical arrangements of both songs and Slash's solo's are killer. I just don't like most of Weiland's lyrics or his vocal style. 3. My World should not have been put in the petty category-it is interesting but should have been left as a b-side to a single. The other songs are just immature and unnecessary. Back Off Bitch should have been left as what it was-an AFD leftover, same with Don't Cry. Shotgun has great music and chorus but the "kick your ass"  "IQ" stuff again, does not reflect well on Axl. He was much better than that and certainly held a position in the rock community where he had no reason to be verbally sparring with a tool like Vince Neil. :peace:

Hardly..

As Madagas said, LTA is pure Bowie and I'd say YGNR has much more of a STP/Nirvana kind of feel, both superior IMO to the epic poo of DC and NR.  Keep in mind, I'm no fan of either VR selection so I have no vested interest in either song.  In DC's and NR's defense, those songs are like 15 years old and were products of their time, created by a band who'd lost any sense of direction and who were at the forefront of the pompous and overblown.

Well, the first part of Nov Rain is overblown and pompous. I prefer my piano ballads to be stripped down ala After the Gold Rush Era Neil Young. Too much fluff at the beginning but still a good song with nice guitar solos and again, the ending is incredible. It would be nice to hear a naked version of Nov Rain done around 1990, not the old one from AFD era.

But wait a second...

On the subject of Contraband...



 :o

 :hihi:

Dave, Im afraid your hypocrisy and dishonesty is reaching Slash-like proportions...Very disappointing.? :no:? But after witnessing your noble efforts to to expose Slash as a liar and hypocrite, youve inspired me to do the same.? Thanks man... :beer:

I personally like both songs a lot.

The above expose' might just throw someone into the same type exile grunge did Axl years ago... 

 :beer: 



way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too funny.

Man, you are surely obsessed  :hihi: But I like it  : ok:

Not at all...I remember these statements because when they were made, I recall thinking they were no more than a superficial attempt to appear somewhat "objective"...And since Dave is a firm believer in pointing out hypocrisy and dishonesty, I figured Id make him proud and try my hand at it.  ;D

Why do you single out Axl and not the rest of GNR?

YGNR or LTA will not even come close to the impact NR had. NR elevated GNR into another level in term sof making a ballad. Whether you prefer ballads or not is not the issue. Fact is GNR's stock rose for the most part when that song was introduced.

YGNR is VR;s best song, IMO, but it doesnt come close to NR. I doubt it will even "crossover" and be VR's SCOM or whatver like many around here predicted FTP would have.

The fact that NR was and still is played on radio despite it being a long ass song, says it all.

Of course it is...it has a modern sound whereas DC was released more than a decade ago.

So the song is Axl telling himself Dont Cry? Thats deep  :confused:

I don't really like NR, although you are right, it had a very big impact on GN'R (more than it had on the musical scene). NR is a special song for a rock band, but kills a 'street rock band'. OK, they changed their musical direction, you can't play the same music for decades (only Rolling Stones can do it). But IMO NR is a boring song... there isn't anything musically interesting thing in the first minutes. The solos are among the best guitar moments of history and the end of the song is pure genius, but the lyrics, the piano and the vocal melodies are below the level of an average GN'R song. Sorry. (Estranged is much better.)

I cannot compare NR to YGNR. Both of them are ballads, but that's all, these are quite different songs. YGNR can 'battle' with Don't Cry or Patience.

You are so right. Even the acoustic demo of NR is so much better then YGNR or LTA. I even prefer that one over the UYI version.

The thing is with the VR songs is that they are great songs, but only in the way they are produced right now. And like NR and other GNR songs, if you take away everything and just play it on an acoustic guitar you still have really great songs. And that's what's missing in VR songs. They're great, but only in the way they are right now. They miss the emotion Izzy and Axl could put into a song. Most were written acousticly, even WTTJ. And that's how most great songs are written, cause if they work that way, you have a great song.

Care to reply Dave?


Good work Booker  :yes:

Because the other members kept active and Axl didn't, too worried about keeping up with the musical Jones'.

As for Don't Cry having more of an "impact" the LTA, that's in the ears of the listener, we're not talking about career makers or breakers, just a song comparison and DC had a major negative"impact" on this fan.  Just because I'm not a fan of the bad 80's power ballad genre in general doesn't mean I can't dislike that piece of crap on it's own lack of merit...

I disagree, i love the demo of loving the alien - that's a different version

How can you say that when you have not heard the acoustic versions of LTA and YGNR?

Kept active doing what? Snakepit?Cmon man.Snakepit bombed. All old GNR members were inactive until they decided to do VR. Axl has been active since 1999 making music.

Well, yes. 

Whether you question the quality of the work, Slash, Duff and Matt expecially have kept going, not letting the musical trends of the time dictate their activity.  Hell, even Adler is out there doing it....

Even if Axl's has been "active making music since '99",  what the hell would call late 93 until then, vacation?

Unfortunately, Yes. From 94-99 GNr was inactive. the first part of those yrs the old band took a break, lawsuits, etc....then as it went on they started to disagree. then they left. New gnr began making music in 99/2000 and the band as it is today began in 2001...

Yes...

Come on, youre not that dense to believe your opinion of quality equals acitivity, are you?  Whether you like Snakepit, Blues Ball, Loaded, Neurotic Outsiders, Slashs session work, or Izzys solo records is irrelevant - theyre all evidence of activity.

Comparing anything by VR to GnR? Blasphemy!

Dont Cry is a freaking awesome song...let us never mention the two in the same sentence ever again. LTA is so damn cheesy...I knew that a lot of you would think that "sometimes blah blah blah...sometimes is all the time and never means maybe" ding-a-dong is profound and genius. If he must write crappy lyrics, I salute him on having the same consistency on performing them.

BTW, the only decent VR song is Superhuman and that's because Weiland isn't in his typical tortured martyr persona, surprisingly. That guy should go play in an emo band.

Booker wow you went back that far to find an old quote of mine? Good work, do you copy and save all my replies or did you search post by post to find that? Just curious.
As for LTA, at first I really liked the song, that was after a few listens, but the song after hearing it more times over the last few months the song just got stale and old.? The song just does not stand the test of time like Madagascar or the blues. The more times I heard the song the less I liked it.? ? And yes like I said the ballads are some of the best out there but that is because music sucks these days so its going up against bands like good charlotte, nickelback and jet.
Oh yeah VR should be so proud to be barely better than those guys.

Here is a question for y ou booker.? ?Since songs can grow on you, like oh my god did to a lot of gnr fans, don?t you think its possible for a song to have the opposite effect?

It's difficult to compare the two songs right now, because they are both products of their time.

I personally prefer LTA; Don't Cry, though a good song, always sounded a little dated and cliched to me, even given the time that it was written.

That's a good point. Of course many of you will prefer the VR track, you've been listening to Don't Cry since 1991.

When VR releases their second album, most people will immediately say it's their best one. Maybe after a while they'll realize that it wasn't as good as "Contraband". Only because you've been listening to "Contraband" since June 2004.

It's a natural reaction.

If you still like Loving The Alien as much in 2017 as you do today, then it has stood the test of time. ;)



/jarmo

I agree as well.  I really like LTA, but I am sure part of that is because it's newer.  I remember thinking Madagascar was a great song too, but I kind of got bored with it and haven't listened to it in awhile.  I've felt this way about countless songs.  Time will tell if I have the same view of LTA.   That's what makes Appetite such a great album.  I don't listen to it every day, but I still can throw it in the CD player every few weeks and it still just rocks...

I've heard a lot of people say they got bored of madagascar too including myself

You are so blind in your battle to stick for Axl. YOu make an ass of your self. The guy is sticking up for Axl's lyrics.

Then all you have to do is listen to a live version of November Rain from 1991 or 1993. During both of those years November Rain was played stripped down to the core. ;)

Oh we all know how overblown songs like Right Next Door To Hell and Don't Damn Me are. (sense the sarcasm) The thing with you Falcon is that you single out November Rain and Don't Cry and pretend those were the only songs on the Illusion albums. (just like how you ignore the 1991 and 1993 Use Your Illusion Tour) I mean since when is a song like You Could be Mine created 'by a band who'd lost any sense of direction'? How are songs like Dead Horse overblown? See all you do is nitpick all the little details of the Illusions but completely ignore the rest of the material. Have you even seen the St.Louis 1991 show? That show has double the angriness and double the rage than the Ritz 1988' show in which your oh so glorious 'Appetite' decade resides in. Also, how can you compare November Rain to Don't Cry. One song is a rock ballad and one song is an epic in proportion that can be compared to the likes of Bohemian Rhapsody and Stairway to Heaven. I don't mean to insult you, but if you watch any 1991 live performance you will notice that you're dead wrong about the band and how it became 'overblown'. Hell I bet you haven't seen the European 1993 Tour bootlegs. For you "a band who'd lost any sense of direction and who were at the forefront of the pompous and overblown" is one that has variety. I can clearly see that.

You speak like every single song on the Illusions was like November Rain. You magnify any aspect which you might find negative. The Illusion albums had everything from Country songs (You Ain't The First), speed metal songs (Perfect Crime, The Garden of Eden), punk songs (Don't Damn Me), epic ballads (November Rain, Estranged), epic rockers (Coma), hard rockers (Back Off Bitch, You Could Be Mine) to blues songs (14 Years), progressive rock (Double Talkin' Jive), 'hippie' rock (The Garden), etc... That is why I consider the Illusions a work of art. It's like having an artpiece with variosu different shades of value. That was the power of Guns N' Roses (one which you will never understand); they could do two songs of an entire different genre or sub-genre but still sound like Guns N' Roses. So where are the back-up singers on Civil War? Where is the horn section in Locomotive? See this is the perception you give off. They were not afraid to take musical risks, that is why I respect them greatly. They rebelled against what the public and media wanted their next album to sound like. They completely ignored what record companies and producers told them for the sake of sales. That is focus.

Also I'm gonna cover this next subject since I'm here anyways. You always speak of overblown videos. Well how was the video for You Could Be Mine 'overblown'? Did you consider that video that demonstrated the band's 1991 Ritz performance of the band too 'pompous'? Or how about the Live and Let Die video? What made that 'bigger than life'? Was it the packed stadium that made the video 'overblown'? So I guess you found the low-budget black n' white Yesterdays video too 'overblown'? I mean what else could be more overblown than the band recording themselves playing a song club stlye? Really. Or how about The Garden of Eden video? That video was recorded with about a $2.00 budget and was a one angle shoot. Surely you must have seen it, surely "overblown" must come to mind. Especially the part where the band is playing at a tempo of about 130 and headbangin' very intensely. But how could I forget the Dead Horse video. You know the video where all they show is the band goin' insane on stage. Surely they must've spent a big budget on that video as your "horn section" and "back-up singers" were made invisible, which must've cost millions of dollars. (and also they must've paid the United States military lots o'
money to let them borrow that kind of technology)

Face it, you single out songs like Don't Cry and November Rain very vaguely. Your musical stereotypes ain't gonna get you anywhere dude. Also please stop with this whole "grunge thing". Guns N' Roses sold 3 times as many copies of albums worldwide as the most prolific Grunge band in history, Nirvana. From 1991 to 1993, the time were Guns N' Roses were supposedley 'destroyed' by Grunge GN'R managed to sell 32 million copies of the Illusion albums worldwide. Also if I remember correctly it was Eddie Vedder and not Kurt Cobain that made flannel mainstream. The only thing that put Axl into hiding was himself, the only thing that destroyed Guns N' Roses was themselves. Not one outside element did that. Also by saying Don't Cry 'is a piece of shit', you're putting the song in the same category as Stacy's Mom which I know you think 'is a piece of shit' as well.?

The End.

Actually, he singles them out because they exemplify what hes talking about.  I believe his opinion is that the band as a whole was unfocused...so whether they did a few concert videos, or straight-ahead rockers doesnt really matter, because they still had the overblown videos, grandiose production, and back-up singers.  If its his opinion that the band was bloated and unfocused, surely the odd concert video isnt going to remedy it.


Actually, both are rock ballads.  And Falcon is no fan of ballads.


Not every song...but quite a few.  Now, maybe I shouldnt be speaking for Falcon, but I think I understand his pont of view enough to provide you with enough insight before he does it himself.

Hes a fan of AFD-era Guns, and surely you could see how an AFD-era fan might not care for the UYI-era Guns.  Face it, they were bloated.  You can cite this video and that performance, that doesnt erase the many overblown aspects of the band at the time.  Playing double-pianos atop a motorcycle, huge, preposterous videos featuring dolphins, back-up singers, keyboards, horns, etc. 


And thats probably why he considers them bloated and unfocused...

Also..."Dont Damn Me" punk?  "DTJ" prog-rock??  Speed metal?   ???


There might not be back-up singers, but theres probably enough whistling, rain storm effects, and keyboards to turn Falcon off.


Again, maybe not horns, but the length and keyboards are enough to turn him off.

I understand you like these ambitious, diverse songs...and I agree with you.  But thats not Falcons thing, and I cant blame him for finding them unfocused, bloated or self-indulgent.


It is?  It might be ballsy, but I wouldnt say "focused" is an appropriate description.


Well, it was a Terminator 2 commercial...


You know what hes talking about..."Estranged," "November Rain," and "Dont Cry".  Yes there were other videos that werent as big, but that doesnt negate the existence of these three.

Booker do you have nothing else better to do tonight?

I am just curious booker do you bash led zepplin IV too since most of those songs can be compared to the syle of estranged, nov rain, coma, locomotive, civil war and breakdown?

I don't think I need to add anymore to the above.

Done and done.

^

Were the beatles self-indulgent because their vids were much more elaborate than the gnr vids?