Here Today... Gone To Hell!

sorry if this has been posted before but i liked it and hadnt seen it before

http://www.spin.com/images/bigillusion1.jpg

Posted by: SpinOnline on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 01:58 PM
 
 
Illustration by Danielle Huthart
By Chuck Klosterman

Why is Axl Rose eating Eminem's soul?

Here's the thing about modern teenagers: They like rap. It speaks to them. Rap music (sometimes referred to as "hip-hop" by sociologists) offers today's youth a sense of urgency and desperation not seen since the "heyday" of late-'70s punk-rock artists like the Clash and Boston. This phenomenon is best illustrated through the work of a popular Caucasian known as Eminem, a man who spent much of 2002 as the unsmiling cover boy for youth-oriented magazines such as Spin, The Face, and The New York Times Magazine. It would seem that Eminem is a new kind of cultural Minotaur: the irrepressible cad who flouts society's conventions by candidly critiquing pop culture and sporadically threatening to murder people. It all seems quite innovative.

Yet this is not as you may suspect, true believers. This has been done before. In fact, this has completely been done before, because Eminem is Axl Rose. And I don't mean Eminem is like Axl Rose in a metaphorical sense or in a philosophical sense or in an allegorical sense; Eminem is literally reliving Rose's career in bizarre, hyper-specific ways. My proof:

Both hail from the Midwest and express violent anger toward their mothers (Rose on Guns N' Roses' "Bad Obsession," Eminem on pretty much every track he's ever recorded).
Both reappropriated their given names for reasons that were simultaneously personal and aesthetic (Rose renamed himself after discovering the identity of his "real" father; Eminem titled his most visceral album after his legal name to make it more "real" to listeners).
Both have been critically reviled as homophobic, yet both seem vaguely obsessed and/or connected with gay culture (Rose once sent flowers to the Pet Shop Boys, who later sang the song "The Night I Fell in Love," about a Shady-like character). Both artists were also defended by Elton John, who performed with each at high-profile awards shows.
Both are fixated on burying women in the backyard (Rose in the GN'R song "Used to Love Her," Eminem in the video for "Cleanin' Out My Closet").
Both attacked seemingly innocuous enemies (Axl went after the likes of Vince Neil and Spin founder Bob Guccione Jr.; Em went after Moby and Chris Kirkpatrick).
Both sing about abusing "bitches" they were romantically involved with (Rose on "It's So Easy," Slim Shady on "Kim").
Both are diminutive white males who, after discovering weight training, suddenly wanted to appear shirtless in public.
So what do these "coincidences" tell us, beyond suggesting that Eminem soon will disappear into the Sedona desert for ten years before emerging with a band featuring some dude wearing a KFC bucket? Perhaps they tell us this: What always survives the evolution of culture, and what tends to be replicated most closely by subsequent generations, is inexplicable--a manifestation of fucked-up alienation. Logic would dictate that commercial success comes from creating a product that people can relate to. But cultural success--the ability to exist as an idea, years after your tangible work has lost its relevance--derives from embodying a persona that almost nobody can relate to. Somehow, the marriage of weirdness and bad judgment is its own kind of eternal reality.

Case in point: Justin Timberlake. When J.T. performed in that stupid detective's hat at last year's MTV Video Music Awards, everyone's reaction was the same: "Oh, how cute--he wants to be Michael Jackson." I can't believe that more people weren't aghast that someone actively wants to be Michael Jackson. At this point, Jackson is no different from Howard Hughes: His life's work has been completely dwarfed by his desire to lie in hyperbaric oxygen chambers and collect the bones of the Elephant Man (not to mention his being accused of child molestation and calling Sony racist for allowing him to sell only 58 million albums). No rational person views Jackson as anything except a freakish example of why profound celebrity is the worst thing that can happen to anyone. Yet people like Timberlake (and like Eminem) still aspire to that kind of public self-destruction, because that kind of losing is actually how you win. And that's because profound celebrity is always less disposable than art.

 

Good article. I guess the main difference between the two artists is that Axl is a genius and Eminem, well, sucks big fat moose cock.

Hey I have a question. Do you think Eminem and Axl had a chat at the 2002 MTV awards?

I like some of eminems music i guess.. if im drunk and it comes on in a club...


but Axl has talent and eminem doesnt.  they both have the same rage but who cares... eminem is just a rapper.

Axl vents his anger with a huge amount of talent.  He also has other sides to him in his music besides anger.

 :rofl: :rofl:

Serious note: Does anybody think people will be listening to the "Real Slim Shady" 20 years from now? I doubt it, but I do think people will still reminicese about 'Sweet Child O' Mine' and "November Rain.'

Yeah it was a good article I think people will still look back at Guns more but there is only one Axl

I enjoyed reading that, thank you : ok:

That's ridiculous.  Just a "rapper"... so why don't you snap your fingers and start rapping?  If you don't need talent, then we should all be able to do it?  Also, how is all of Eminem's music "angry"?  He writes emotional songs, as well as joke songs.  In fact, the majority of his last CD wasn't angry at all.  You may prefer Axl to Eminem, but that doesn't mean he isn't talented.  Apparently Axl has taken over producing duties for Chinese Democracy.... Eminem picked up on producing a lot faster than old Axl.  That's a talent in itself.



WTF are you talking about?  You're saying Eminem won't be remembered?  He's one of, if not the, biggest rap artist ever.  An Elvis-like figure.  Maybe "The Real Slim Shady" won't be played years from now (even though his VMA performance of the song is one of the most remembered in the history of the show).... but how about "Lose Yourself"??  You don't think people will remember an Academy Award winning soundtrack song?  A soundtrack song from Eminem's #1 movie off of his #1 Soundtrack from the same year as his #1 Solo album which included a handful of other huge hits?

Rap music is the dominant genre for this generation, and you're saying that people won't remember it's biggest artist.  If that makes you feel more confident that "Rap music is crap music".... then continue saying absurd stuff like this.  I'm not a fan of Celine Dion's music, but I don't doubt that she has made a stamp, and that she has talent.

FUCK YOU EMINEM

sky, i hate to tell you this, but you are completely and totally wrong. the talent level of eminem can not even be compared to that of axl rose. rap music is nothing but a bunch of recycled loops and beats from other songs along with rhymed lyrics. and lets be serious for a moment, eminem isnt exactly writing his music in iambic pentameter. anybody who's anybody can download a program, create a beat, and put lyrics over it. what takes talent is creating an actual, authentic song. eminem is good at what he does, but it should not be overappreciated. to praise eminem and put him on the same pedastel with an axl rose or a freddy mercury or a john lennon is a sin.

Again, if all you have to do is download a music program, recycle a beat, and throw some lyrics on it... why don't you go out and do it?

How is Lose Yourself not an "actual, authentic song"?? It has a piano, guitar, and drum track and it has lyrics that tell a story.? It was a crossover hit (Fuck, I only ever hear the song on my local 'Edge' station... an all rock format, jumping from Nirvana to Eminem).? So why is a song like that not authentic?

Eminem is a sought-after producer and he also runs his own record label... on top of being the most popular rap artist in the world.? You're saying that you can pull all of that off without being talented?? :no:

BTW, I'm sure some people would say putting Axl Rose on the same pedastel as John Lennon is a sin...

because i dont want to.


my radio stations have done it to, and its just because people like it. im not arguing people's musical interests, im just saying that when it comes to the talent that it takes to create a song, eminem is far below other musicians.


he is able to do that because he has a lot of money. because he was ridiculously promoted on mtv and various media outlets. his music is forced down people's throats (see the radio station argument).


i didnt say that. i was just making a connection. john lennon is the greatest musician of all time.

Eminem is NOT an Elivs like figure. not even close. Eminem is a gifted writer and rapper no doubt, but he was also, in many ways, preselected, premarketed, and prepackaged by Dr. Dre and alot of record execs. Elvis started a culture change- he combined styles of music: gospel, country, and 'black' music like r& B and sold it to a 'white' culture, paving the way for great social change. Eminem has done none of those things...rap music ( from Run DMC to NWA to Public Enemy) was pouring into the 'white'  suburbs long before he came along. Hell, the Beastie Boys were doing it long before he was...and ALL the aforementioned artists had a much bigger impact in bringing the social cultural trends of urban America into the mainstream pathing the way for a slick-marketed product like Eminem.

As for why Axl Rose and Guns N Roses will be more rembered than Eminem: I will not be one to say GNR were original in any musical sense, they certainly brought many influences to the table that are very easily distinguished, nor did they change the culture of America in any siginficant way (I don't think)...But they certainly didnt have the promotional machine Eminem enjoyed...they were passed up by nearly every label that came close to signing them, they played crowds of 10 people...and suddenly they were the hugest band in the world---everywhere from the USA to Japan to Israel to Lebanon to Brazil...all in a scant period of time. Their music, now most of it over 10 years old, has raido cross over appeal- still played on modern rock, classic rock, and (occasionally) top-40 ish radio formats.

And as the Spin article implies: the Eminem story really is just a fainter retelling of the Axl Rose story, and people will always remember the original more than the imitation  8)

Sure he is - a phenomenally successful musician doing "black" music for a white audience.


Really?  How so?  Because half of Eminems breakthrough major-label debut was actually the independent EP that Dr. Dre heard before signing him...So please inform me as to what was pre-packaged...

Yes, it was marketed.  Just like every other record ever made.


Like it or not, he has.  Theres a million young white kids who dont listen to rap music (and probably dont even interact with black people in real life) that worship Eminem.  His impact is enormous. 


And Eminem has made it even bigger by appealing heavily to those young white kids (most of whom probably dont recognize the Beastie Boys as hip-hop artists or know who Run DMC is).  None of those acts sold 1.7 million copies in 1 week.  In fact, no other solo artist, in any genre, has done that.  You simply cant downplay that kind of popularity. 


 ???


You dont know much about Eminem pre-Aftermath, do you?  Its fine if you dont, but dont speak like you do when youre so blatantly wrong.


Same with Eminem.


I dont listen to top 40 radio, so maybe you can tell me what youre talking about there...

Speaking of cross-over appeal, be sure to look out for Eminems next single on your top 40 station...and modern rock station...and rap station...and alternative station, just like "Lose Yourself" was.


If you believe that, fine...but youre only fooling yourself.  As an Axl Rose fan, you can keep telling yourself a million reasons why Axls better/more important/etc., but just take a look around you.  Read the Rolling Stone cover stories dedicated to building the Eminem legend, hailing him as a genius.  Check out the charts - youll not see that he himself sold 21 million records in 5 years, but has shot his other projects to #1, platinum status (8 Mile, D12s albums, 50 Cent/G-Unit/etc.).  Hes starred in a blockbuster movie about his own life, etc., etc., etc.  The point is clear.

And Im not even a big Eminem fan.  I think hes a great rapper, but a lot of his music doesnt appeal to me.  However there denying his popularity, impact and importance in pop music.

I hate Eminem. He's music irritates me. And I'm sick of hearing about him bitching all the time and he never has anything interesting to say. Compare the lyrics of "Civil War" to anything that Emimem has ever written. Compare the melody, piano solo, and song structure of "Estranged" to anything the Mr. Mathers has ever written. I mean, yeah, they have some things in common, but musical genius is not one of them.

ouch, where's the love, Booker...ok I'll concede my knowledge of Eminem pre-Aftermath is sketchy at best, so I won't argue on something you obviously know more about. but i will not concede that Eminem is even close to being on the pedastal of importance in American culture and music that Elvis was/is, nor will he ever be.
 Aesthetically it's easy to say they both took 'black music' and made it popular to 'white' audiences, but the fact is, when Elvis hit the scene he set off a firestorm that would pave the way for the modern music industry, from everything marketing to performance. His embracement of 'black' music in a certainly much more racially hostile climate is at least somewhat attriubtable to the accpetance civil rights movement (at least in the boomer generation) in the decades following his initial arrival. His hip swaying controversey stemmed the beginnings of the sexual revolution. Moreover Elvis's crossover appeal ( from his movie roles to his militray service) would eventually reach beyond young people to cover many other age groups- he parlayed initial controversey into overall societal acceptance ( something a sociopath like eminem will never be able to do).

Secondly, to say that eminem is reaching white kids who don't otherwise listen to rap is simply untrue....rap albums have been consistently been consumed more by suburban white males since (I speak to this not only from reading about it but from my junior high and highschool experiences, where most of the school was white, and the predominantly popular artists  Tupac, Dr. Dre, and Snoop Dogg) the mid to late 90's and till now than any other demographic, including black males, whom the music is supposedly being produced for...Eminem's success is probably based more on his 'controversial' lyrical content and, as someone else mentioned, ridiculous overexposure on MTV and other entertainment networks than white kids who dont know rap being amazed at some 'new' form of music.

But enough about it, ultimately, Eminem's legacy will be determined by a larger group of people than you or I. And the point of the Spin article is to compare the similarities of Axl and Eminem's experiences. And we don't know the end result of either. Ultimately, I believe (escpecially if CD is released) Axl will remembered more than Eminem as a musical visionary who risked fame and credibility for his artistic vision, whereas I see Eminem as a talented man who has had the backing and blessing of many more people within the media industry as a marketable star with appeal to one key (albeit important) demographic 18-24 year old urban and suburbanite kids. Time will either prove me wrong or right.

very well said sky, look guys we might not like rap music or what not, but to deny eminem's talent is ignorant, what he does is hard to do, he produces, he writes, he performs, its hard shit to do, if not everyone would do it, hell theres alot of money in it, so while I dont have to like his stuff or buy his cds i can appreciate his talent.  Hell for Dr. Dre to acknowledge Ems talent says alot cause Dr Dre is a legendery rap producer, and the man knows talent when he sees it, from Snoop Dog to Em.  Axl is a talented person in his own way and so is Marshall Mathers, lets just leave it at that,

peace :peace:

sky72-

eminem is a gay piece of shit

So was Vanilla Ice.....

Beastie Boys still are.

If you feel like continuing the discussion about Eminem, there's always the Bad Obsession section.




/jarmo

Surely you understand the difference between Vanilla Ice and Eminem?


Sort of...Beastie Boys have (and always had, to an extent) more of a rock appeal than most rappers.  Their most straightforward hip-hop album (Pauls Botique, which is also their best) was their least successful.  And theyve never had the same kind of artistic credibility that Eminem currently has.   

Yes.
(http://mitglied.lycos.de/liberadze/hammer.gif)


Now, if you want to talk about other artists. Do it in Bad Obsession (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=9.0)

I only responded to what Jarmo wrote in this thread (which happens to be half about Eminem, so not discussing Eminem is a little tricky isnt it?).  But if discussing Eminem is prohibited, you might as well just lock this thread.

Surely Axl must have eaten vanilla ices.

I don?t know about eminems soul but I bet he prefers Rocky road.

Exactly Booker.

The only thing Im wondering is, how long it will take the Grammy's to get the bright idea of pairing Axl Rose and Eminem for a duet. They love that shit.

Oh, and to the dude that said eminem sucks moose cock (or whatever colorful analogy that was), remember that Eminem has won an Oscar for his music. How many outside the John Williams and Disney camp, can say the same about their music.

I like Eminem's music too - but c'mon Oscars are and always have been a joke - an award decided by a bunch of old men and dependent on current fads

Its nothing to cheer about really and it certainly doesn't make Eminem 'good' because of it.

All i gotta say is that there is no way Eminem is like an Elvis figure! Eminem and Axl do have similarities but that dont meant they are on the same level. Axl has an amazing talent and has acheived so much in the short time Guns was around. They hit it big and they hit it fast 'cause of their raw, real talent. Who else could go more than 10yrs without an album and still be the most sought after artist on the planet? Who else could stay outta the limelight that long and still hold such an important position in the music industry? Dont get me wrong, im not bashing Eminem but they are not similar in their careers. Eminem is doing wot Axl has done. Axl's done it all and Eminem is jus repeating it all. i personally dont think Eminem wont be remembered in 20yrs time, i dunno y, but i jus think his music aint rememberable. It aint got that uniqueness and it dont stand out and it aint really done anything to the music world. Guns N' Roses made a hellava difference and made such an impact. Eminem cant be compared to Axl, no way, Axl is in a much higher, successful and better league. Well, thats my 2 quid thrown in

you dont have to like Eminem of his music, i dont like his music that much

but you are not ebign fair if you are saying tha he doesnt have talent its jsut a different kind of talent that you are used to or are able to appreciate

he would not be the star/character he is if he was talentless

COuldn't agree more....most "classic rap" is often perceived as a joke or it just sounds REALLY out dated.  However, classic rock is just legendary and STILL inspires new artists.   I guess there are exceptions to the rule, maybe old public enemy or beastie boys still gets a listen, but I think its more in a nostalgic way, not in a "man, I really dig "fight the power".

I think eminem legacy will be his outrageous behavior and shock value, not necessarily his songs. 

to bump or not to bump, that`s the question : ok:

He's not saying he won't be remembered, he's saying you won't hear his songs much - which is true.

Rap is a fad that has gone on WAYYY too long. How throwing lyrics, if you can call them that, on top of a sampled drum-beat has lasted twenty years I cannot understand.

If the black youth of America started to make something different, I'd be impressed. But it's the same, always the same. Same beats, same angry voices, same music videos, same clothes, same attitudes, same song narratives etc etc...

Where is the independent thought...?! I can't tell two modern rap songs apart....

Rap needs to change the record. Or just go away. Thats my 2c.

Wow.

I'm not the biggest fan of rap, I have to admit. So I can't comment much on that genre.

But if you take the word "rap" and substitute the word "rock"...and substitute black with white..and substitute beats with chords or riffs.....

You'd have just written an article from the early '90's on the state of rock and roll.

It's eery.

Every music genre as it's genuis, rock as john lennon, rap as 2-pac, dance as paul oakenfold.
But with every genre you get the crap. e.g fightstar, 50 cent, cheeky girls!
it's too hard to say that eminem isn't a great figure in music coz their's people that either hate him or love him!
You my find it hard to believe but there's people who think guns n roses are the most over-rated band of all time, with just SCOM makes them a one hit wonder!

So it's opinions that decied who's legend or not!

Like with disco... there will be the day... :hihi:

I've listened to some rap in the past and marshall mathers lp is a great rap album and Eminem is very talented just like Axl but in a different way, rap isn't rock, kinda like having a great film and a great theator actor, they are both great actors but do very different kind of acting.

Eminem seems kind of stale now. Glad the A-man is returning, show him how it's done.

this argument has been going on since the gnronline message board (I know because I started a topic on it back then).  I think that Eminem and Axl Rose are having almost identical careers as the article has stated.  For all of those reasons and more I think that is the case.

As for Eminem not being talented.... haha ok, keep telling yourself he is not.  I always tell people if you want to hear what kind of talent Eminem has then listen to Hailie's Song, Marshall Mathers, Kim, and The Way I Am.  Lose Yourself will never go away, it will be played right after or right before WTTJ at sporting events for years to come.  Its ok to leave the secure nest that is rock and roll people, there is some interesting stuff out there....

You're right.

But I guess there is more variation in "rock" music.

I mean rock n' roll, goth, metal, grunge, indie, country, hard rock, soft rock, emo, nu metal, punk.... all come from guitars.

How much variation is there in rap...?  :-\

I don't know. I don't listen to too much rap so maybe I'm bias but everytime I hear a rap song I'm like..."I've heard this all before..."

Journalists just can't get enough of Axl Rose when it comes to comparisons with other artists.  :confused:

... and the reason I'm on this board is because he doesn't compare. He is in a league of his own.  : ok:

i wouldn't be at all surprised if Axl listens to eminem.

Axl to me is the greatest talent ever in any conversation. ?However, to deny Eminem his talent is absurd to me. ?He is a phenomenal rapper. ? I mean unbelievable. ?Just because you do not like a particular form of music does not mean it is not good. ?Stop picking on Eminem. ?

Eminem is very talented. You don't sell 60 million+ records in the world without talent... he was still the biggest musical phenomenon no so long ago... people have a short memory. However, I think Axl is more talented.

I think you can.

If you have the right look and a good manager, you can sell shitloads. And your music can be crap too.

Saying Eminem is not talented because he is a rapper is just as ignorant as saying "Axl isn't talented - he doesn't sing - he just screams"

If rap doesn't take talent - then everyone in here should be able to make a hit and make millions.  Give it a shot.

Eminem is supremely talented both as an MC and as a writer.  His music has taken on a creativity and raw emotion (similar to Axl live) that only 2Pac was ever able to create.  Talent transcends genres.

ok im not a fan of eminem but you people who are calling him untalented are very wrong

I think Eminem is ok.

But when I listen to his albums I let about 3 songs play and fast-forward the other 12....

You're right.

But I guess there is more variation in "rock" music.

I mean rock n' roll, goth, metal, grunge, indie, country, hard rock, soft rock, emo, nu metal, punk.... all come from guitars.

How much variation is there in rap...? :-\

I don't know. I don't listen to too much rap so maybe I'm bias but everytime I hear a rap song I'm like..."I've heard this all before..."


Hip Hop, rap, Ganster rap, club bangers, street rap, poetry rap
Don't quote me on this, but this is what i was told were various different styles in hip-hop.
the one you see most common these days is bling rap or ganster rap, you know:
Girls naked shaking there arse's, money being flashed, lots of jewerly, cars etc, and the words they the same thing!
some people in hip-hop hate having this style representing the genre, like i hate the fact that coldplay are the flag wavers for british music!

The article didn't mention the styles that each artist brought. ?Axl with his bandana and long hair wearing the jean jacket and Em with his "unique" bleached blonde hair and jumper suits.

Em isn't as talented as most people think he is.  Some of his lyrics came from some unusual places. (The HOK) heh

I think it's just because you don't listen to it. ?I feel the same way about country music - but I don't really listen to it. ?I think there are many, many people that wouldn't see a distinction between Metallica, Cinderella, Av7x, Bon Jovi, Tesla and Slayer. (i.e. my parents)

Too bad Axl didnt write bad obsession or its so easy  ::)

Anyone and I mean anyone can tell the difference between Slayer and any of those bands.

Quite a bit. Theres periods of certain sounds being popular, such as in 1992-1995 when Dr. Dre, Snoop Doggy Dogg, Tha Dogg Pound & Warren G were dominating with the "G-Funk" sound on the charts, or I guess Dr. Dre Snoop Dogg & Eminem's "2001" sound. But i guess in general u got gangsta rap, which tends to come from the west coast, talkin about gang bangin i guess, then you got poetic rap, where its just like poetry but rap, you got i guess what you could call battle rhyme rap (think the free styles in 8 mile), you got your dirty south rap, i guess theres many sub divisions & cultures that destinguish one rapper or producers musical/lyrical style from anohters

lol

I cant speak for the entire world, but a majority of ppl i hang with still listen to old school rap & love it way more than todays watered down commericial rap. From N.W.A. Eazy E Ice Cube Nas's early shit Snoops early shit 2Pac's original music Notorious B.I.G. Bone Thugs Mobb Deep. They all spinning in our decks more than the new stuff. So yeah, what your saying is wrong its the opinion of yourself, not neccessarily others. I think ive seen & talked to enuff ppl to conclude theres alot more old school rap fans out there than you think

Booker Floyd link=topic=14314.msg250667#msg250667 date=1092023310]

Sure he is - a phenomenally successful musician doing "black" music for a white audience.


Really?  How so?  Because half of Eminems breakthrough major-label debut was actually the independent EP that Dr. Dre heard before signing him...So please inform me as to what was pre-packaged...

Yes, it was marketed.  Just like every other record ever made.


Like it or not, he has.  Theres a million young white kids who dont listen to rap music (and probably dont even interact with black people in real life) that worship Eminem.  His impact is enormous. 


And Eminem has made it even bigger by appealing heavily to those young white kids (most of whom probably dont recognize the Beastie Boys as hip-hop artists or know who Run DMC is).  None of those acts sold 1.7 million copies in 1 week.  In fact, no other solo artist, in any genre, has done that.  You simply cant downplay that kind of popularity. 


 ???


You dont know much about Eminem pre-Aftermath, do you?  Its fine if you dont, but dont speak like you do when youre so blatantly wrong.


Same with Eminem.


I dont listen to top 40 radio, so maybe you can tell me what youre talking about there...

Speaking of cross-over appeal, be sure to look out for Eminems next single on your top 40 station...and modern rock station...and rap station...and alternative station, just like "Lose Yourself" was.


If you believe that, fine...but youre only fooling yourself.  As an Axl Rose fan, you can keep telling yourself a million reasons why Axls better/more important/etc., but just take a look around you.  Read the Rolling Stone cover stories dedicated to building the Eminem legend, hailing him as a genius.  Check out the charts - youll not see that he himself sold 21 million records in 5 years, but has shot his other projects to #1, platinum status (8 Mile, D12s albums, 50 Cent/G-Unit/etc.).  Hes starred in a blockbuster movie about his own life, etc., etc., etc.  The point is clear.

And Im not even a big Eminem fan.  I think hes a great rapper, but a lot of his music doesnt appeal to me.  However there denying his popularity, impact and importance in pop music.

Sorry, i agree with all these, i love it when ppl get totally owned for speaking on things they dont know anything about

Of course Eminem doesn't compare to Axl.  NO SHIT!!!  I don't like Eminem but you can't deny how great of a rapper he is.  It takes a lot of talent to do what he does.  To say "all you have to do is make a beat and throw lyrics over it" is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard in my life.  Come on now, you may not like the guy but yes "It is very ignorant to deny his talent."  Grow up some of you.

The comment about classic rap sounding outdated is crazy......  you still hear people pumping Run DMC, Eric B & Rakim and Public Enemy from time to time.  Not to mention all the Dre/Snoop/2Pac stuff that is now 15 years old.  (Good lord I'm getting old)  That music has certainly held up more than Bon Jovi and Motley Crue. :) 

Okay, so they have some points in common. But Axl is, to my opinion, more than just all about anger, homophobia, racism or bitch slapping.

Sure, this is part of his personality, but there's much more than that.

Eminem, in four albums, is always saying the same : his mother that was a bitch with him bla bla, his wife he wants to kill bla bla bla, his baby child he loves more than anything and nobody will do her harm or he'll get mad bla bla bla, bitches, faggets, etc etc etc. Always the same shit.

Axl on the other hand has written about plenty of things.

Uh.... Axl hasn't written about much since 1991.  All we have is about 6-7 leaked songs in 15 years.  As much as I love Axl, I wouldn't exactly brag about the breadth of his body of work.  Hopefully, that will change very soon when he releases some of the 28-30 songs he's supposedly recorded.

just a bit off topic... I always thought Marilyn Manson = Axl Rose... for many reasons (ie. appearing on the scene/disaapearing from the scene)   ;)

maybe in his latter albums he was repeating himself, but out of his carrer your left with the masterpiece!
The Marshall Mathers LP, I've seen numerous "the best albums of all time" listings and eminem has the only hip-hop album on nearly every list i read, to be respected in your own genre is one thing, but to be respected by nearly all music genres, that says something about him!? :peace:

Has Eminem ever said anything about Axl?

not 2 my knowledge, if he hasnt then axls probs the only 1 lol

Nah he did dress as him during a performance of D12's "My Band" at an awards show if i remember. It was done in good taste of course

i agree, it's ignorant to deny his talents as a rapper and as a lyricist. his rhymes are crazy. that being said, i have thought of these and more similarities myself. the difficult childhood, the anger, the coming from the midwest to LA to make it, the homophobia accusations, the racism accusations, the playing with elton john, the spokesman of a generation label, the rebel thing, the controversy... although that's where i want to seperate them, because as much as eminem is controversial through intentionally provoking, axl was and is a walking controversy in himself. he never tried, and that's the difference right there. axl is the last true rock n' roll rebel.

Now that Axl's dropped the rapper look, everyone can just shut the fuck up (including me) about these comparisons.

you must've completely missed the point.

No, I wasn't talking about your post.
I was talking about the thread in general. I had even posted in this thread before making fun of Axl's rapper look.

oh, ok. no problem then. : ok:

can people stop talking out of their ass like they know shit? actually eminem has mentioned axl rose once, in an interview in 2002 or so (or 2001) kurt loder (a big axl fan) brought the similarities about the homophobia accusations to his attention, and eminem responded "i don't know axl rose or anything about the way he was raised, so i can't really comment on that". at least he didn't diss axl, if he had done that i would've lost every bit of respect for the guy.

Yea i remember that, that was a while ago now though!!

yeah, i think i mentioned that. ::)

How am i talkin out my ass u moron. He did dress as Axl during the performance so ur the one attacking me for no reason u fn moron good to see u r banned

The article was OK, but a little thin on the ground aside from some (admittidly interesting) simillarities. There were no real comparisons with their music (as has been said, Axl didn't write the songs which were mentioned) or relationships with their respective bands.  I don't think anyone's accused Eminem of being a meglomaniac lol.

Not the greatest musician, but, in conjunction with Paul McCartney, he was the greatest songwriter.

who has the better solo work lennon or mcartney?

Neither.

George Harrison's solo work is far superior compared to either in my opinion.

Def not the best song writer. Bob Dylan shits on Lennon.

Ever listen to "The Plastic Ono Band" album? If not, do so and then tell me what you think of Lennon.

Harrison was better for the first wee while, but the muse left all of them for a while.  They were better together.  Remind you of any other bands? ::)

no offence, but their wasn't much worldwide outcry when harrison died, and i'll think the same will go with Mcarteney. To write something like imagine takes a genies!

Thats because his unfortunate death was a long time coming...

He wasn't shot in Manhattan or anything...

Not sure where you live, but there was plenty of coverage on Harrison's death here in Canada...

in the UK, but i think if u ask most of world who was the best songwriter ever was, i put lennon in the top 3 if not number 1, but as said above their best work was in the beatles not argument about that.

Beatles were good.

But John Lennon? "Imagine" was ok... Apart from that, the dudes MEGA over-rated.

You wanna talk about the solo work of ex-beatles...? Do it in the right topic in the right section.

Eminem is Axl's illegitimate son from wild groupie sex in Detroit.  Seriously, these two are cut from the same cloth.  Both very talented, very pissed, and very outspoken.  A collaboration would be awesome!

i agree, would be cool to hear for sure! :beer: :smoking:

insane clown posse would kick feminem's ass!!!!!! but really, eminem is very gifted & theres nothing wrong with looping & sampling beats, im pretty sure guns will do it on chinese democracy.

I don't think the author of the article really has a clue about the meaning of the GnR Songs he referenced.  bad obession about hating his mother....thought it was drugs
Used to Love Her.....Izzy's Dog buried in his back yard
It's So Easy.....about life pre-AFD explosion and how things could come to them pretty easily
the reference about Bob Guccione Jr....this artcile was written by spin....the same pub the caused the rant

maybe I'm wrong but as for comparing Axl to Eminem, the only common factors are their white and from the middle of america

Lennon's cheating, he's using genies :D

Seriously, though Elenor Rigby also takes a little help from some genies to write.