Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Military personal have been called back to Iraq after their time is up. Many about to retire have also had to come back for yet another stint. The link below touches on a few different aspects of this. It is clear that the military has itself spread rather thin here, and one thing is for sure: The USA needs all the military help it can get right now.

So I am calling on you: My Fellow Americans. Those of you who have: Supported Bush this entire time, supported this 'war' in Iraq, and who honestly believe that the Saddam/Osama connection is the God's honest truth. I am asking for your help for these Americans who are laying down their life for what you believe is the truth.

I am asking that you go down to the nearest military branch (your choice, this is America, we have all kinds of choices here, it's great isn't it?) and sign up tomorrow. At the very least, you could sign up as a reservist, if you had a really busy schedule, I understand. Hey...I'm busy too! But remember it appears that many of the reservists are going over as well now, because our military is thin now.

If you choose not to sign up to join your brothers (and sisters) in the war against terror, I am requesting you post WHY you will not be willing to serve your country at this time. Please explain to me in full detail why YOU would not be willing to put your life on hold (and most certainly on the line) to hlep out your country, and the men and women who help to defend it. They need your help, and so do their families.

Thank you and God Bless.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0513/p03s01-usmi.html

Well, given that noone has claimed a Saddam - Al Quada acconection in such that you have claimed so far, I will not agree.

Can you imagine the shit Bush would be faced with now if he had ignored that the warnings, the implications, everything that the intelligence agency told him?

I still stand by Bush, and I can find no fault in his decision making.  Look in the past all you want, but what happened, happened.

I will attempt to give you a better response in the morning, if so is requested, or something.  : ok:

ah informer  4.0 , now that post was fucking genius. pure genius i say!  : ok: its gonna really stir the shit.

i'd really like to see how the pro war people respond.

Please do, because your post confused me.... :confused:

LOL, I thought we could get a better understanding here. I know Hannity and O'reilly are too old to fight. I know damn well they would if they could, it's just bad timing for them.  ::) But these younger pro-war guys here, I need to know if they can give America the help it needs right now.

ya know what, I would go and enlist if I were amercian, not for BUSH and his ideals but for his army military that has to follow and enforce his decsions.

I'm confused, what do you mean?

I can imagine what would have happened if Bush hadn't done something to cover up the fact that we're no closer to finding Bin Laden now than we we're three years ago, and that hardly anything has been done to break up the al-qaeda networks.


You find no fault in the fact that he told the world that Saddam had WMD's, when he knew and the CIA knew they didn't?  That he let Colin Powell stand in congress, in front of national TV cameras, and point at blurred photo's and say "here you can clearly see a biological weapons factory"?


This might be a good idea...

There was links between Saddam and Al Quada.  Noone in Bush's administration claimed Saddam was somehow connected with Sept. 11th.  Gore claims Bush is trying to implant that idea into people's mind, by, shockingly enough, doing something so devious as stating the facts as they were (which the U.N. report backed up).


I know you think everything Bush does is part of a conspiracy to trick people, but I still can find no fault in how Bush has handled the situations.  I don't know everything that's happened or went on, or which possible missed opportunities he's had on catching Bin Laden, but I'm pretty sure he's been doing his best.  I don't really believe Al Gore would have caught Bin Laden by now, either.


Well, I don't know where you're getting the fact that Bush knew there was no WMDs.  He was very open about the information and why he believed they had WMDs, Saddam had WMDs in the past, he wouldn't tell us where they were, and he wouldn't allow inspectors to check his country for them.  It makes sense to me.  Even the 9/11 commission didn't find fault in Bush over the WMDs.  So you can either believe Michael Moore, or whoever you're getting your information from, regardless of what official information we have, because you think all those democrats are in Bush's pocket, or.... believe something more logicial.   : ok:

Why are you getting all off subject?

Why not answer the original post?

This has, and is, being discussed in other threads.

Will you put your life on hold and volunteer to go fight in this war you support?

You are a young man loretian. Why not go serve your country? You can always come back to school afterwards right?

Don't avoid the question and try to hijack the thread.

Why can't you pro-war guys answer my simple question?

Will you put your money where your mouth is and sign up for the military? If NOT why?

I wasn't trying to avoid the question, I was just getting at some of what you were saying, as far as the Osama/Saddam connection.  I mean, come on, the U.N. even agrees with Bush on this, and you state it like "and honestly believe the Saddam/Osama connection."  Who doesn't?  Anyone who doesn't isn't aware of the facts.  But I see your point, and I'm sorry, I did get a little off track.  

I'd also like to say, I don't think anyone is pro-war.  That's like saying people are "pro-abortion" - nobody wants it, some of us just think it's a necessary evil.  I happen to believe if you don't stand up and fight for what you believe in, someone will tear it away from you, and peace cannot come without war.  Yes, I know you disagree that what Bush is doing isn't "fighting for what's right" or anything, I just have a problem being labeled "pro-war."

Nevertheless, it's a valid question.


They won't let me join them.   I test positive for certain drugs.  My younger brother is going to join in a year.

Assuming the drugs were not a factor, if I felt like I could do more out there in the military, I would join.  We are not in a state where we must "fight or die", and as so long as that's not the case, we need people to continue to run the country.  The company I work for depends heavily on me, and even though I've considered quitting at times, I have to weigh a lot of factors.  If I didn't have the job I have where people depend on me, and I was drug free, I'd probably join.  It's something I've seriously considered.

By the way, I'm not in school.

I don't appreciate this wise ass post from Informer.  Trying to pull a Michael Moore copy, and it's stupid.

Anybody being called back up has a contractual obligation to do so.  They are fully aware of this when they sign up.  Stop trying to make it seem like these people are being forced against their will.

By the way, the military is meeting and exceeding their recruitment needs.  There are no problems on that front, despite what you may think.


As far as I go.  When Bush gets re elected, there's a very good chance I am joining the Marines, so go fuck yourself.

I didn't say that people are being forced against their will. Don't try to twist what I am saying around. They are being re-upped because we have a shortage in our military. Besides I took the article from a Christian, right wing magazine so you crybabies could not scream "liberal". But you still managed to pull MM's name out of all this. Proving that you didn't read the link, or look at the source for the article (which would be something up your alley anyway). And instead just used a quick cop-out and attacked me on a personal level comparing me to your evil (I like to call him patriotic) Michael Moore.

You don't like the wise ass approach then too bad. Sorry I hurt your sensitive little FEELING. You should make a rock solid marine with how sensative you are.

Good way to avoid the question and attack me personally"Go fuck yourself" was very intelligent and original I might add. Did you copy that from the Vice President's don't-know-what-to-say-so-tell-'em-to-fuck-off move the other week? He just told a Democratic to 'fuck himself' too! Man you guys are all alike. I guess it all starts at the top and works its way down. :hihi:

Loretian...read the 9-11 report? Iran is now the central focus and it turns out that (suprise) Iraq never had connections to Osama. If you want to debate me on that, go to the other thread I started ABOUT THAT. But that is neither here nor there. You can pick apart my question if you'd like. But it was a simple question. If you believe in this war, then you are pro-war. It's pretty simple. I'm not defining you as a person who likes to kill or condones violence in all situations. I am being pretty straight forward here. So save the kid stuff for the highschool debate team and approach my question in an adult manner. I.E. don't pick it apart to avoid the fuckin' question.

So DRUNK why not sign up now? Why wait to see if Bush is the president once more? Why didn't you answer my question?

You know what they say DRUNK: that once you have started with personal attacks it just proves you don't have an argument.

So calm down and answer my question!

I mean, why aren't you signing up now? I will tell you why: Because you don't want to go over there and see fuckin' action that is why! You guys will all come out and say how right Bush is, and how war is the only way, and ignore facts. But when it is time to pony up and YOUR ASS is on the line then it becomes "next year", and "If Bush is re-elected". What a crock of shit!

You guys don't put your money where you mouth is. I'd bet you any amount of money you wanted (held by a neutral third party in a paypal account) that if 1) Bush were re-elected, and 2) The war was still going on, that 3) You WOULD NOT join the Marines. No fuckin' way pal. I'd put any amount of money down on that you want.

No, but we are in a state where the people who joined the armed forces have been asked to go above and beyond what was originally expected of them. Because the military is low right now.

So you can sit home and support a war, and at the same time ask these brave men and women to endanger their lives more than they should? While other pro-war supporters won't step up to the plate to fill that gap? Where is the "support for the troops" I've been hearing about all this time? I guess it's just a verbal hurray for them?

Nobody going to step up to the plate and help your fellow Americans out?

Two excuses so far. Keep 'em coming.

iraq is damn too hot in august, i think november would be a cool time to go to war.

How about you calm down and don't insult members of the board? This is in the board rules. You can disagree with someone but not insult them.

You call it an excuse, yet you completely ignored most of what I said.  Basically, no matter what reason anyone gives for not going out to fight, you're going to claim it's an excuse - as if the only acceptable thing to do is you believe in the war on terror is to go out and join the military.

You're not asking for a reasonable debate, you just want to be shitty.  I'll keep this in mind next time you start a thread like this, and won't bother posting.  Let me know if I'm wrong.   : ok:

Cause Im sure most on the left are always to willing to go be peace keepers in the humanitarian efforts they always espouse.

Your laughable :hihi:

Besides I am serving my country right now Informer.  Are you?

No your right.  He makes his guerilla warfare like posts and then leaves a thread.  It usually happens right after you take the effort to refute every ridiculous contention he makes.

Reasonable debate is not something INformer is capable of.  He has said it himself on other posts.  How he is not interested in debating, but just trying to piss people off.  I would definately suggest ignoring his posts.  Its not worth bothering.  We get some great debates on this board with people on all sides of the spectrum.  Informer is not one of them.

so night train are you currently enlisted in the army?

i don't see why you're all getting angry at informer, his post had a valid question. Forget where he got his info from and all that. It makes sense, you support the war, the army is recruiting, you should join.

this thread isn't about debating, its about a simple yes or no answer, and if its a no explain why. we have all the other iraq/9-11/bush threads for debating.

so far:
loretian can't enlist cuz of drugs which i think is a valid reason.

looks like gnr nighttrain is" serving his country" so i take that as enlisting.

and drunk.........well he got too angry.

all it was was a simple question. no need to bring in evidence and facts and figures.

and this whole guerilla warfare business........what the hell.......its a message board not a damn prank phone call.....nobody is gonna sit around here for ages waiting for replies. you make a thread or whateva.....post some replies in others......then you leave. Maybe you've become so paranoid and see it as "guerilla warfare". ::)

Are you enlisting? If that's the case I really respect that and hope nothing bad happens to you! :peace: : ok:

I can only guess that the company you work for doesnt mind your drug habits, and yet they rely on you heavily.  I presume your habit isnt serious enough to affect your work output then.  

I have 4 good friends in the USMC (Marine Corps).  One is a reservist (my roomate), and the other 3 recently returned from Iraq where they served in security patrol.  I was told by them it was a dangerous job, and they have returned significantly changed from their experience.  They lean more towards anti-war now, having seen the results up front.


Are you referring to a miltary draft?  If it ever came to that state, I think the tide of public opinion would swing heavily towards anti-war.  No one likes to see dead bodies draped in flags on tv.


That's good to know.  But if we ever came to a state of "fight or die", would you give up the drugs for your country?  Carrying an M16 under the influence is unwise to say the least.  

btw, I find it amusing that you're part hippie (i.e. long hair, drugs, music tastes), but you are obviously pro-war.   So much for the 60's.  :P

No, they don't mind.  My habits aren't out of control and it's really nothing major (I know how cliched that sounds to say that, but I'm not on coke or anything), but it's the truth.   The drugs do affect my personal life, but I keep that separate from my professional life.  Btw, when I say "drugs", I mean weed and alcohol, with the ocassional trip now and then.  : ok:



I imagine seeing the bloodshed and death of war first hand is an unnerving and sad experience.  I think everyone is anti-war, we just disagree on how to best achieve peace.


No, I just mean the "war on terror" isn't at a point where we might actually lose yet.  We've layed the groundwork and are beginning a very long and tough battle that will last a long time, and the need for enlisted men doesn't outweigh the need for people to continue running the country, and for businesses to continue operate, etc.


Absolutely.  I've given up drugs for times for other, less important reasons.  When and if I get married, I'll be raising a family, and I don't want drugs or booze to be around my kids (or my wife, for that matter).


Yeah, a lot of people do.   :)  The general hippie movement of the 60's was a reaction to the removal of humanity and compassion in the ultra-industriliast America of the time.  In that regard, I agree with a lot of their sentiment.  Their replacement, scientific naturalism, for the most part, was no better and still lacks humanity and does not account for many conditions people face on a daily basis.

I am not pro-war, I just believe we need to proactively deal with the terrorism problem.  I don't want to live in fear of being blown up every day.  The situation might not seem that bad now, but Sept. 11 did happen and it was merely a precursor and a warning for what the future could be like, if we continued on the path we were on before Sept. 11th.

Oh...are you in the service?

I am not in support of this war and never will be. This question was for you guys who support the war and feel it is the right thing to do. If I do not support the war, how then could this question be asked of me?

I serve my country by asking questions and helping others in need as often as I can. I dedicate my time endlessly to anybody I can help. That is how I contribute. My family has served their country in the military for years and understaning the severity of war, and is against occupation in Iraq.

What do you do? Make cold calls for Bush donations?

No I am not asking for a debate. I am asking a question from you guys and I want an answer.

You call it shitty because you don't like what I'm asking you and it makes you uncomfortable. The dentist makes me feel shitty too, but it is necessary. Your conscious can also make you  feel shitty.

I think random had some great counter points for you and you are dodging those as well. Especially about the drug part.

BTW you did not answer the question but rather try to throw it back in my lap. You won't get off so easy. Are you in the service? You are how old? Early 20's? Why aren't you signing up to support your fellow Americans and this country right now? Guess it's ok, as long as it isn't you over there.

Instead you take pot shots at me to avoid the question. People who read this, understand that, and it does nothing but discredit you.

Which I gave, which you then decided to respond in an absurd manner.  I'm sorry, but you didn't address any of my points, you just accused me of something.


That's a fine way of saying it, but I think you're the only person that takes what you have to say seriously.


At this point, I'm not surprised you're even writing this.  I directly responded to everything he had to say.

Look, you obviously have your opinion and you have no interest in having some sort of discussion about it.  You could have called you thread "I believe you have to enlist in the military if you believe in the war and absolutely under no circumstances is it acceptable not to, so please respond so I can insult you about it."  It'd be a little long, but it'd be a lot more accurate.

 ::)

I'm not gonna waste my time with this anymore.   I will happily discuss things with those have respect for other people and their opinions.

This is what I expected.

Next.

wow nighttrain i didnt know they made helmets big enough for your fat head....., better yet, I didnt know they were going to assign a full reserve divsion to shovel all your shit! ....LOLOLOLOLOLOL, So I guess your joing the airforce.. I hear they are looking to buy some blimps, and ur so full of hot air you could put a nuke in orbit.



oh a firend of mine asked me to put in a little line for you oh great and wise night train



There is no terror, Cassius, in your threats;
For I am armed so strong in honesty
That they pass by me as the idle wind,
Which I respect not.

- Willie's Caesar

So you support Bush and what he's doing.  You believe what he's doing is right.  You want to be safe.  You don't want to see another 9/11, and you would help your countries army...but weed is more important?

Ok...

No, like I said, I would give up all drugs, including weed and alcohol if I needed to.  I have seriously considered joining the military, but regardless of the drug testing, I don't think I would enlist.   It's not like I'd just be going off to fight a war, I'd also be leaving behind a lot of things.  If I felt the situation was so dire that I would do more good fighting rather than staying here, I would enlist.

If everyone who supports Bush enlisted in the military, we'd have a lot of problems and they wouldn't be with the military.  For many young men and women, it makes sense to enlist, but that's simply not the case for everyone.

edit: I realize you might not have read the whole thread, but when I originally stated my mind on this, I first explained why I could not, and then explained why I would not.

If I had just gotten out of high school, or just gotten out of college, looking to start my life and make a little cash, as well as develop some discipline, I would probably enlist.  This is the situation my brother faces, and that's why he's planning on enlisting next year.  This is not my situation, I am the most senior person (next to the owner) at the approx. 20 person company I work at, the whole company depends on me.  I have people that depend on me financially too.

There is an appropriate time for a person in my situation to enlist, and I don't believe now is the time.  Some people in my situation might believe otherwise, and I have a lot of respect for them, but we each have to make a decision based on our situation, there is no one blanket right or wrong for everyone in this case.

No, right now Im working for the US Attorney.  So I am sacrificing less money to serve my country.

However, post graduation I intend to go into either the FBI or perhaps join the military.  I will most likely go where my skills fit what is needed for my country.  If thats armed combat, so be it.  If its the FBI, so be it.  

Besides, just cause your not in the military doesnt mean you cant support a war.  

Furthermore, I understand that many people disagree with the war in Iraq.  I can understand the legit grounds for doing so.  Even I recently havent been as pro-war for Iraq as you make it out in your post.  Just because I refute Michael Moore's lies and I believe that there was legit reasons to go to war doesnt necessarily mean I think the war was right.  I simply believe that Bush was acting on the information given to him, which could lead a reasonable person to believe everything that was said before the war.  In fact most democrats said it themselves.  In most of these posts I simply refute the ridiculous contentions that Bush had bad motivations, that there was no evidence of a threat to suddam.  

Again I will ask you then, what about the war in Aghan?  Were you in support of that?  Why didnt you enlist?  What about all the many humanitarian efforts and problems that you say are out there?  Why dont you enlist for those?  That is the logic we are dealing with.  You think you are making such a brilliant point, but your not.

But yet you refuse to debate this stuff.  Instead you have these conspiracy theories that you are unable to reply to once refuted.

Thats great, and I respect that!  

Im not the biggest Bush fan believe it or not.  But because I defend him against your ridiculous conspiracy theories, Im making cold calls for him?  

If you were a Bush supporter after 911 which you claim, then why didnt you sign up for the military in the campaign against Afghan?

Your post pretty much speaks for itself.

I dont see how you think Im so arrogant on this board.  I guess its just because you disagree with me.  Many disagree with me on the board, but make good points.  All you seem to do is make needless mindless attacks.  

For awhile I thought you were making some pretty good posts.  But now Im back to my original perception of you, which is that you have nothing meaningful to say.  That is why on your first post you had to rip off something from a website and post it as your own.  You cant come up with anything on your own with any kind of substance.

I didn't believe that was a correct move either. I supported Bush to an extent. As a citizen of the USA I supported him. Then he fucked it all up.

Still won't answer my question 'eh?

Conspiracy theories...bah...I guess you are calling the 9-11 report a fuckin' conspiracy theory then? Hell even Joe Scarborough said it was a helluva a read and very scary. My other posts are from authors who do serious homework. One is testifying at this time. What conspiracy do you speak of? Give me a break. That is all you guys can say when you run out of steam. It's just like saying "american hater."

You keep claiming I run away from your refutes. Like I've said now 3 times I don't always check back. I post shit to get people talking and asking more questions. I am not going to repeat myself, reread my posts.

I am making a good point. You guys (most not showing up for this thread I see) who have said for MONTHS that war was the answer are too chicken shit to put your money where you mouth is.

I didn't support the attack of Afghan after 9-11. It was stupid. It would be like blowing up OK after the bombing of the government building. Stupid.

The question is not for me. The question is for the young males (on this board) that are quick to judge those of us who are against the war. I want their feedback. You can try to put it back in my lap all day long. But it is still does not matter about me.

You are still avoiding the question. Just like I knew you would. At least you had some balls to come into this thread. Where are all the other pro-war guys who have been preaching for so long?

Your answer is good enough for me. To an extent. I would have looked at it with much more respect if you hadn't tried to turn it around on me. I'm obviously anti-war anyway, so why would you think a question like that would even make sense?

I'm not gonna get into any points other than the title of the thread, because it's late, and I've been there before with both of you.

I hadn't fully read the whole thread Loretian, I read most, but did just skim a few posts, and I obviously missed the bit where you explained about your job.  That's a perfectly good reason, as is GNRNightrains, I mean, you can't really be asked to throw away however many years of studying Law because you support the war.  When you graduate, you'll probably be of a lot more use to your country than you would be getting shot at in Iraq.

But, I know there's more than 2 people on the board who supported the war.  I know i've argued with more than you 2.  So where's the rest of them guys?

Are you a recruiter? I have been HARESSED by recruiters threw highschool. THey will tell and promise you anything to get you to sign up.

It's kind of funny recruiters are asking you to DIE for our country yet the recruiters don't go over there and fight. Why not used disabled Veterans who could use a job to recruit... Wait that would keep people from joinging looking at Handicapped Vets.

I will be voting for Kerry and that's my anwser. My question for you Informer is are you a recruiter or whats your connection to the Armed Forces then?

My family is military (both sides) but I am in no way a recruiter. Re-read my prior posts.

It is a tough sell to recruit now. I mean, you are going to see action more than likely. My friend was in the reserves with 3 kids, and he went over there. So if you join up, good chance you'll be going. I can only wonder what they are saying to try and get kids in now. The must be pretty creative.

That is a good question about vets doing the recruiting. But if they were disabled, it might not be a great selling point.

Yes its got to be hard to recruit when you are missing a limb or in a wheelchair.

If you watch 9/11. (I'm not asking you to agree with everything Micheal says because I don't) There is a scene in which the cameraman follows around to Marine recruits in Flint, MI.

To this black kid that wants to go into music they tell him "You know Shaggy. He was in the marines, if you want to get into music the marines can help"

To another kid who wants to play basketball "You know David Robinson. he was a marine and played basketball for us and then on into the NBA, the marines can help you play basketball"

Then the recruits talk about going to the mall were the poorer kids go, because they have a better time recruiting young men from poorer households.

I had Marine, Navy, Army, and Coast Guard recruits at my high school everyday and they were the same way. They way they promise the recruits almost anything has to change. Wether you are a Dem or a Reb, or an Independent (me) I know there is a shortage of troups but you can't lie and promise young men the world.

I voted for Bush in 2000 because I thought he was the anwser. But since then the way his cabinet acts and does things displeases me. I'm not a Cheney fan, and it sickens me why Bush can't fire a single member of his cabinet for mistakes. There were huge mistakes made on Iraq and on the 9/11 and yet he hasnt changed anything.

Informer... All you seem to want from people is that they answer your question, about why not go and enlist yourself since you've been so pro-war in the past. If you read the thread through, GNRNightrain has said that he himself hasn't been too happy about the war since new information has come up. What he said, was that at THAT time, when desicions had to be made, it was justified to go to war, whether the information that was given to Bush was distorted or not. As we have been proved later, it was. And not a little. In the light that we see things now, it is a whole different matter, and I don't think anyone in their right mind would go to war on such soft grounds.

About GNRNightrain's counterquestion: Why won't you go and join one of the humanitarian organisations?, was, in my mind not a way to avoid the question, but rather just to point out how ridiculous your orignal "go enlist yourself" thing was. Just like he said: You do not have to go to war to be pro-war, just as you don't have to be a part of green peace to think that pollution is wrong. They are opinions. Plus he did comment on his future plans which should've been more than enough.

Informer. I am/have always been 100% against this war, but by posting such exterme posts that can't even be taken seriously, you're really not helping anyone to change their opinions.

Here's my take on all of this.

Firstly, like many others I supported Bush from the beginning. I even supported the Iraq war based on the knowledge that we were given. I mean, hell, we got Saddam, so that's worth something no matter what. I do believe however, that any invasion of Iraq could have/should have waited at the very least until after we got Bin Laden. He was and still is public enemy #1 as far as I'm concerned.

Now, yes, we have Saddam. So you know what? Let's get the fuck out of Iraq and get the troops back home. We handed control back over, and now we're out of reasons to be there. We did whatever job we were supposed to do there, so let's get everyone home safely.

At this point, I don't know who the better choice is. Both Bush AND Kerry are for the draft. And you know what? I don't feel like being TOLD by someone that I have to go fight a war that has run its course, and I have too much going right in my life for once at this point that I don't feel like ending up on desert sand with a bullet through my skull. Kerry wants to get 40,000 troops, yet he doesn't want to go to the National Guard? What the fuck? They're both full of shit at this point and I really don't think one is better than the other. Since this is going to be my first time voting, someone better give me a damn good motherfucking reason for me to vote for them. All politicians are liars anyway, so right now, neither one is looking all that good to me.

I still stand by this: Whichever one can honestly say that they are against a military draft and can stick to that will have my vote. Unless you're in my age category and feel the same way I do (i.e., not wanting to fucking die), then don't even bother responding, because you have no clue whatsoever.

-Jeff

I agree with you on this part.   Everyone now says that Bush/Cheney/Condi never explicitly stated a connection btwn Saddam and 911.  In that case, ousting Saddam does not prevent Bin Laden from executing another 911 because he (bin Laden) is still alive and free!! 


We got Saddam, but what about all the Al Qaeda people who ties to Saddam? (according to Bush)  Did we catch all of them?  any of them?  Or did they escape down a rabbit hole?

I think we should stay until we know the new Iraqi government doesnt collapse and lose to an Al Qaeda dictator/warlord.  Otherwise all our efforts to prevent Iraq from being a breeding ground for terrorists would be in vain. 


Well, very few pro-war people actually want to stand in the frontlines to defend the country - they'll tell you they can serve their country in better ways than being out in a trench.   And who can blame them? 

Frankly, I doubt either Bush or Kerry would actually reinstate the draft.  Because that would make him a very unpopular president.  It's much safer politically to just round up all the poor people and send them off to war.

Knowledge you were given?  More like lies that you swallowed.  How anyone believed any of the reasons Bush or Blair gave for the war is beyond me.

Nice.  Real nice.  The only reason that our "leaders" have left is that we went to war to liberate Iraq, and free them from Saddam.  Why?  Because Saddam tortured them, and made them suffer.  What do you think is happening there now?  Do you think it's the land of milk and honey?  Just because there was a report on the news, and they've got a president, it doesn't mean they have control.  No-one has control.  The troops are the only thing keeping terrorists taking control of Iraq.  Pull out now?  Yeah, great plan...


Not everything is about the war.  Kerry and Bush have different ideas about other things you know.

Um...do you think anyone wants to die?

ya know what night train, man, everytime you come on you do the same thing that you are accusing me of, "case of the pot calling kettle black?"

seriously u attack everything that people try and do, then say you dont, you say its valid points, but when you go on the same topic 1 milllion times and say the same thing and are not open to the possiblty that you could be wrong that makes you arrogrant, the fact that my opnion can be swayed, makes me objective, the fact that "amercia is the greatest" , and everywhere eles wants what amercia has is arrogrant. I dont want private health care, i dont want shooting on every cornor, i dont want racial biais, I want the potpouri not the melting pot of cultures you so proudly call home. frankly Canada Owns you when it comes to social issues, you can make this a my cock is bigger then yours, but it dont get you anywhere.


FYI foreigners can own properity in many coountries in the world NOT just the US!

I debate the topics, you dont.? Read your last post to this thread, there is no substance to it what so ever.? It is just an attack at me cause you disagree with me.? It makes you look dumb when you attack me instead of debating the issue and refuting what I say.

Thats not true at all.? I only try to point out the facts, and refute things that are absolutely not true.? Point out one fact that I have posted that is not true.? Please.
Ive never said that there isnt complete valid arguments against the war in Iraq.? I only refute some of the ridiculous conspiracy theories that are based on false information.?
Example:
-Bush said that suddam was involved in 911

I also try and point out and refute things that make no sense to me:
-those that say there was no valid evidence of WMDs
-why some back some humanitarian missions and not others
-why some say that there is no threat to the US anymore
I could go on and on and on

Cause you disagree with me

Your opinion hasnt swayed in regards to the war in Iraq, neither has mine.? But Im arrogant and your not.? If you will see there are many on your side that dont change your opinion also, but because you disagree with me I am the arrogant one.? I feel Im very open minded, and will notice that if you read some of the other threads that I post in.

I never sit and say that on this board.? But I do believe it.? DOnt you believe it about your country?? If I didnt think it was the greatest I would go move to where I thought was the greatest.? There is nothing wrong with national pride.? I hope that you think that your country is the greatest.?

Your ridiculous, you are putting words in my mouth.? Where have I ever said this?? You are just pissed because I pointed out that you made an idiotic post.
However, we do have a lot of things that a lot of countries do want.? So does your country.? So do many other countries.? Many people around the world are hungry, have no jobs, and live in dictatorships where the average person dies at the age of 20 of some disease.? That doesnt happen in my country or yours, so people do want we have been lucky enough to have.

I dont remember ever arguing health care with you.? Because I have refuted ridiculous contentions about the war I am:
1)arrogant
2)I think everyone wants what the US has
3)I think we are the greatest country in the world

Keep going . . .

And these are things that I want?? Please point out to me where I challenged you to compare our countries?? If you want to debate these issues I would be happy to, but dont try and put words in my mouth.

If you read this entire thread you will notice that you are the one attacking the US.? I never said we are better than anyone.? I never put down any other country.? All I see is your antiamericanism coming through, because I never gave you any reason to make such a ridiculous post yet you chose to just bash the US on your own.

So you dont like the US and want to live somewhere else.? Thats fine.? The US isnt for everyone, but a lot of people sure seem to like it, I being one of them.?

I dont know how Canada got into this conversation, but I disagree with you that they own us on social issues.?

Please tell me where the fuck you are getting your shit from in this post.? Is there some mysterious post that you are responding to that I wrote while I was drugged out on LSD?? I dont know where I ever brought up owning property, let alone compared the US to one other country in this thread.

That's great and everything. But it doesn't answer the question to the original post now does it?

This is my point. Although NONE of the people I'd like to see come to this thread really did. Which says it all. No I don't blame anybody for not wanting to get shot at. But that is the point, what they forgot, the value and importance of human life. If they think about their ass getting blown up all of a sudden the 'call to duty' can wait. I hope those reading can see what hypocrites these pro-war bullies have been over the last year during all this. I really want to make that point. Not one person came forward and said they were signing up and going to fight, and that they had been, and still are in favor of the war. NOT ONE.

Remember these pro-war posters called us "traitors, un-American, Bush-haters" etc etc etc. Just like faux news anchors liked to call the anti-war groups. Bully tactics pure and simple. A shame, but it is what it is. So all these people who claimed war was the only way, and we didn't love our country if we didn't agree with them (or we could leave) are where now? NOT HERE that's for sure.

Interesting read - although I can't get by the fact Christian and Science are mentioned in the same phrase unless talking about the dark ages.  I just can't pick up that paper......

I used that as my 'source' (more of reference really) because it was not of the liberal media. All the conservatives would cry foul if I posted a link to MichaelMoore.com. It helps drive home my point being something from their side of the fence. Tougher for them to attack it too.

yeah, let's send more young people with promising futures to be shot to death in the middle east over nothing. good idea. you're a really good person.
i'm sure the families of the young people you encourage to be victims of civil war and mass murder will think of both you and george w. bush as heroes.

oh, after reading more of the thread i figured the original post must have been sarcastic.
well yeah if the pro-war people want war then go down there and fight it yourselves, don't push young gullible soldiers ahead of you. go on, get shot. if you are stupid to even believe bush' lies for one second then the world won't miss you anyway.

What was the point of bumping this?  ???

because i was looking through threads and found the idiotism blinding so i had to say something.

yeah ! bump bump bump !!!  thats the sounds of the 50's as they're hitting in my trunk  !!!

bump bump bump !!!

um, yeah, but the last post is like 2.5 years ago.....

he can't help.
he is a racist.

and this is a sad thread

Who is racist?

what  the fuck? racist?
that's the second time you've insulted me without reason today. what the fuck is your problem?
i'm just gonna ignore your posts from now on, as you have no credibility what so ever.

I'm diabetic. Sorry pal.

if you are going to questionize my abilities in the english language, when I dont heir from an englishspeaking country, i define you as a racist.

it may interest you to know that i am not from an english-speaking country myself, you can ask aimz about that. i still handle the english language, and i don't appreciate being generalized into a group of native english speakers. racist.

You're kidding, right?

OK, so if someone questions my French-speaking ability when I'm not from France, Quebec, or North Africa, would they be a racist too?