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Cultural news roundup

Thursday July 15, 2004
The Guardian

? Tommy Stinson, bassist of Guns N' Roses, has announced that the band's long-awaited comeback album, Chinese Democracy, is "almost done". The album was originally due to appear soon after the collapse of the Axl Rose/Slash line-up in 1996. Stinson, the band's longest-serving member after singer Rose, puts the delay down to "legal and other issues" including "ego management" and the "psychological mindgame" of keeping a large band "simmering but pulling in the same direction". He expects Chinese Democracy to appear late this year or early in 2005.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/...1261754,00.html

I thought Dizzy was the longest standing member of GNR after Axl? ???


I wonder if Stinson will get fired or in shit from Axl for these comments:-

'Stinson puts the delay down to "legal and other issues" including "ego management" and the "psychological mindgame" of keeping a large band "simmering but pulling in the same direction".'

 :o ::)

Expects?? Problem is...he expected the album in 2002, then in 2003, then in 2004, etc. I would like to believe but... :(

Thanx for the info though.

Ignoring the shoddy journalism of the piece, I'd like to know exactly what he means by "ego management". Sounds like it's difficult to keep all the members happy and focused, and everyone pulling together for the band   :-\ Maybe he's referring to the Buckethead situation?

As for the positives. Yet again someone saying around the end of the year. The label targeting November sounds more and more plausible....  : ok:

@#$%Muther

Just say if this is true....my guess it would be early 05. Just to make the wait longer. And late this year-early next year gives them 6 months.

Put the fuckin record out once and for all :rant:

well, I think this band is not togheter.

seems that they don?t "hang out" like friends... did you see any pics of the guys hanging out like normal rockers? is so fucking cool see the old pictures of axl, slash, duff drinking a bear in a bar ... you know ... "news" like that just make me realize that they don?t know shit and they?re not caring if this album will be release tomorrow or in 2007 ... "when they need me, they will call" ... try to say that to your girlfriend, "when you need me, call me, ok? but till then, don?t boder me ... keep doing your stuff ... " you know what you happen, hun?

all of this lead me to think just one think:

Axl will release this monster, could be one, twoo or even three albuns ALREADY RECORDED, but the fact is, he?ll never enter in an estudio again, this could be the last Guns N Roses ride ... and he wanted to be remembered.

To be honest, what Tommy said about "ego management" and the "psychological mindgame" of keeping a large band "simmering but pulling in the same direction", could have been said by any band member from 1989 onwards. It's just the way it's always been in Guns N' Roses since they became huge.

As for the band never being together RnT. I can see why you might think this way but most bands, unless it's before they become big, spend a lot of time apart. Especially as bands get older and they have many other commitments including families. They don't 'hang out' together. A lot of the time they get together when it's time to record or tour. It's the way it is. You can't go back to when a band was young, and struggling, with few commitments.

So don't feel diheartened by this  : ok:

@#$%Muther

Toimmy could you at least use words other than the already typical and predictable "Almost Done"?.

Thanks Renato, but the link didn't worked.

Please post the full link, because like VoodooChild someone said, the link didn't work. Plus from http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/ I couldn't find the article. So until I've seen the source myself...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1261754,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1261754,00.html)




/jarmo

I have nothing against Tommy however I wish he would keep his mouth shut unless he's got anything concrete to say about Chinese Democracy. All he is doing is fuelling speculation with empty comments like 'Almost Done'.

And its about time someone official gave us some sort of guidelines.

Although he may be, I think people are mislead about Tommy being "clueless". The article starts off by saying he has "announced" that it's almost done. That makes it seem like he went to reporters and for no other reason started talking about CD. What probably happened was Tommy is trying to promote his solo cd, but since he is in GNR, and he gets asked the tired old "when is the new cd coming?". Instead of giving a well thought out answer, he gives the automatic "soon", or in this case it's "almost done". Just another way to look at what could be behind the rest of the band giving these generic answers.

Early 2005......... :hihi:

It's safe to say that if it doesn't come out in November, or by May (knowing how Axl throws around the word "soon" he probably has an interesting definition of "early"), nobody should expect it to ever come out. I'll still HOPE it someday comes out, but I'll never expect it to after that.

Well fuck me... here we go again.

Hey, I got a Buckethead update uh...exclusive. Where do I post it?

Yeah meanwhile, the human beings in the room are ready to retire.

Nothing from 2004 except yet another press release about how something that was supposed to happen is no longer going to happen. There is a real shocker in the world of GNR.

Let me guess, 2005 is going to really be the year? We have been hearing this song and dance since 96-97 with nothing to show for it. The only part of the equation that has remained the same in that time frame is Axl, which is why we have no album.

To think it was just a week ago most of the lemmings around here were wetting themselves that CD starts in November....must be nice to live in blissful ignorance like that.

Axl will record music 'till the day he dies man.  :yes:

He just may not record as GNR after these next records are released. :nervous:

Unless there ends up being a full reunion of the original memebers which is still a long-range possibility IMO.

I could see him just going solo after this next big conquering of the world takes place. Less hassle for him.

Naupis, the whole thing is pure comedy. November my ass...as usual now we are moving in to early 05 then spring then a big summer tour then xmas 05. What a complete joke. Tommy should shut the fuck up or just say " I have absolutely no idea when the album is going to come out-that is Axl's call. In the meantime, I am releasing my own record and touring." ::)

 :hihi:

Let's assume he's right this time and it will be released in "early 2005".  But when was Tommy supposed to be touring with all his other bands?  I thought he was booked the whole year.  And isnt he going to promote his solo album?

Then what little publicity he has would completely disappear.

I could swear some of you don't even read this message board.

November was a date given by the label/management as a target date. There is nothing unbelievable about that, and so people are thinking this is positive news. After all isn't it?

Nobody here said "it's definitely happening in November". or as Naupis says:

And now Tommy says end of year/early 2005. End of November is practically the end of the year. It basically confirms that November is a target, but as we all knew already that could be delayed.

@#$%Muther

i think tommy was being sarcastic with the ego management and those comments

he said late this year or early 2005

that coincides with what we've heard, early 2005 could be in case they hit some sort of snag in the mixing process

an album has to be issued to a label by a certain date in order to be released in november, i know this cause Creed talked about it on the "weathered" cd, and said they had like 2 weeks to mix it to get it out in time

so if the mixing goes smooth we could have it in nov, if it hits some snags, early 2005, i take that as being positive

some of u people jump off and on the bandwagon faster than anything ive ever seen before

just relax!

Any news is good news....

Tommy Stinson knows as much as we do.  So Take this as a grain of salt.

I think those comments were very focused and were specifically about BUCKETHEAD. : ok:

The album is going to come out eventually.  I doubt it will come out in November, but no later than spring/summer of 05'.  


November is 4 months away.  It's not happening, no way.  Christmas is 5-6 months away.  Once again, doubtful it will be out then.  it's likely to come out after that.


There are the legal issues, which ARE big deal.  They also have to book a tour. Set up promotion etc.  

if it were to come out in November, then we would have had to have some sort of statement now.

Everyone talks about these legal issues, they must not be that big a deal because Slash/Duff are also involved in all of them yet they have been able to release a #1 album and tour in that same time span. Its not like Axl is the one huddled away in a legal library somewhere devising a defense strategy looking for case precedents. We need to get off this already.

Next year he is going to be 43 years old.....his window of being a viable rock star not viewed as being over the hill is closing big time. Yet there is no sense of urgency to get out there and do it while they still can before being viewed as a novelty act in the same realm as the stones and aerosmith.

If its not out by November, then they have to wait until at least march to let the post christmas season lull pass. We all know with the way this band operates, the more time they have to release the album, the better the likelihood that something goes wrong. March is 9 months from now.....something will most certainly go wrong between now and then......Axl is an accident waiting to happen. Someone will quit, or he'll sue someone again, or something will leak.....there is no doubt something like this will happen and all of the Axl defenders will get on here and chalk it up to bad luck and say just wait, in another year and a half CD will take over the world.

Its just an album, 50 albums worth of material or not, there is no need to spend 8-9 years making 15 songs perfect enough to put on a CD and release them. It just does not take that long.

So in other words he has NO idea about the albums release, 'sorry, who's this Guns and Roses your talking about.....?' :hihi:

The legal issues are not Axl related, but Guns N' Roses related, so Velvet Revolver is not affected by them.

Yeh well fucking said. Axl get ur fuckin ass into gear : ok:

Estranged-

No shit their not VR related. Most of them are involving the partnership suit.....which all three are involved in, the Hollywood Roses suit....which all 3 were in, the old greatest hits suit.....which alll 3 were in.

My point was that most of the legal problems Axl is having, Slash Duff are having as well because of the GNR relation and whatnot.

Just because you have pending litigation does not debilitate you like it does Axl. People around here think because you have a court case pending you can't do anything, I was just pointing out that Slash/Duff are perfect examples of people who can handle both a music career and a court room.....it is possible.

Only one thing left: when will we give up waiting? I've been fuckin' waiting for this album since Matt Sorum said in early 1993 that it would be released in 1994. It didn't happen. If they don't release it next year, I will give up. If it wasn't our band, we would be laughing all the time on what a loser band it is, and the fans are completely idiots, because they can't face the fact it will never come out. 2005 or never...

Tommy and DIzzy are the best non-political politicians...they have mastered the vague, non-committal answer :P. Oh, Well. There's still 5 months left in the year, we'll see.

No - they just have no idea what's going on :-\ Lol, i'm pretty sure we know more than they do!

We'll never quit waiting. Its not like we're sitting in the record store waiting and life is on hold. We'll just continue to exist and do as is with no new GNR material. The whole thing is ridiculous because there are most certainly 15 songs in the bunch that could make a killer CD, and to waste the prime of your musical life is equally ridiculous. It is embarassing to be a fan of the new GNR as there is nothing to tell people to even justify why you like them other than that they are an above average cover band since they won't release an album. I would like to get some friends into GNR, but what, am I supposed to give them bootlegs of the new band covering old songs. I mean the whole thing blows. 1 album, 15 or so songs is all we ask. I refuse to believe after 8-9 years there aren't enough songs there to release something.

I?ve had enough of this shit....I`m gonna masturbate right now.

contraband is a good not great cd, i would rather axl take 6 years and make a cd on par with afd and uyi than rush and make a cd like contraband

contraband is a great cd, i listen to it bout everyday but where i listen to afd and uyi's 13 years after i bought them, and i listen to the blues,maddy,cd,oh my god, and even silk worms 3 years after i heard them, i cant say contraband will be in rotation in my cd player this time next year

good cd but not a classic memorable cd ill be spinning for years and years

so i want axl to get it right

writing one perfect song is hard, so 15 or 16 perfect songs will be amazing and worth the wait!, as long as he releases it before i die ill be happy!

When I said waiting I meant caring about the band and reading message boards. I'm sure I will know that the album is released without reading 'news'. GN'R and the 'new album' is still a part of my life in a daily base, but I'm close to end this. I will only listen the old songs, won't disturb myself by the actual 'release date' expectations, 'cause it will be a Guiness record if this album is ever released so even political newspapers will report that. It's not a threat, 'cause Axl and the Nu-GN'R doesn't need me, doesn't even know that I' on the world, doesn't even care to respond fans' self-censored questions. It's just a feeling, but it has never been this strong.

I have a lot respect for anybody that has waited for 11 years for something like CD.

I'm sure Axl has more than just those 2 cd court cases to settle up. He defiantely has the 2002 court case to finish up and that has nothing to do with Slash and Duff, who knows, there might be even more we dont know about. And personally, I will wait for as long as I need to for this album, because from what I have already heard, the material is awesome. I dont want an album like Contraband, there is not one song on that album that I will be into 2 years from now. It's such a half-ass album, the whole mixing and shit was rushed, I cant even listen to it at full blast b/c it sounds fuckin distorted, it sounds like shit. With all the old GN'R stuff, I still listen to it today, and all the new stuff we've heard, I still listen to today, I barely listen to Contraband and it just came out. I'm glad Axl is taking his time b/c I dont want a half-ass album. I'm glad he's going over this album with a fine tooth comb.

PS: And in reality, it hasnt been 11 years since THIS album has been in the works. Just b/c Matt Sorum said that an album was gonna be out in 1994 doesnt mean it was this one. All the material, with the exception of This I Love, probably didnt even exist back then.

How many politicians really know what's going on ;)? Anyway, I'm pretty sure you're right...I doubt they have little contact with anyone associated with the label or anyone else...they're just the players on Axl's magical ride.

The actual idea that some of you believe band members know as little as we do is ridiculous. They know all about what exactly is delaying the album, what stage it's at and possible time frames.

What is likely tho, is that they know about as much as us as to exactly when it's gonna be released. You know why? Because nothing has been set yet. Duh!

As for legal actions - We don't know exactly what repurcussions the various legal actions are gonna have on Axl and GNR because we have no clue as to exactly what's gone on. So, to compare VR and Guns N Roses in terms of that is a total nonsense. You're assuming....

 @#$%Muther

Let me ask you a question.

After Slash and Duff left gnr, what major band/album have they put out besides Contraband?

Yea Slash and Duff have done thier solo stuff, but they havnt done anything of significance to the mainstream until VR, which began in what 2003? SO lets relax and stop acting like they have been pro active since leaving gnr...

As for gnrs legal issues. Im sure there is a lot. A lot of shit regarding the old band. The new band, the album, etc. Its a lot.

When this album finally comes out it will be #1 and it will be #1 longer than VR stayed at #1 and you can count on that.

The band knows eveything about the band. If you think otherwise then well.....

I think Axl has more legal trouble with the aborted tour and prolly the label than the Duff and Slash case. Thats why he prolly cant tour and/or release da CD. This is just pure speculation based on the fact that Slash and Duff are touring and released a cd.

Everytime I read a quote from someone who claims to have some sort of scoop on when the album will drop I just think back to the words spoken by Axl himself back in 1997:

I guess Mr. Rose is self producing this thing. I find it funny how NIN was suppose to come out this fall but now it is push back til early 2005 Yeah I would agree that this would probably be last big thing that he will do. Now with "hollywood rose" cd that thing is awsome. Yeah it only has 5 orgininal demos but its something offical.   I think Axl must have tried to stop it b/c when you buy the record it comes with a promo card with a band named the numb ones and it says across between VR and Jets  :no: :).

When the fuck did Axl say such a thing? (If he ever fucking did)

Read the "fucking" post again and open your "fucking" eyes. :o

Where is a better question

Right. Now again, where the "fuck" can I verify that information? :hihi:

IF this album is done...and thats a BIG IF then Axl has a serious choice to make...
Release the album and tour with one less gutairist then the music will require.

Or wait to see if something with Buckethead can be worked out.

Or find someone to play Bucketheads parts on the tour.

Any of those 3 choices have issues with them...Issues Axl has to think about carefully.

Not "again".  This is the first time you've asked "where".  And if it's that important to you - call up MTV and ask Kurt Loder about it.  He reported it on a news bit in '97.  Best of luck, smartass : ok:

Kayoss,

you're the one acting like a smartass.

Cheers,

Wasn't that when Duff and Matt were still in the band - so much for a band democracy.

LAte 2004... believeable...
Early 2005... this is really stupid because we all know big albums don't come out earlier than May... So it will be late 2004 or mid 2005...

Oh yeah.
 :beer:

Not that it will come out early in the year (or at all, for that matter) but "big" albums have come out before May....

Soundgarden and NIN both came out in March of '94
Pearl Jam in February '98 and March 2000
Depeche Mode in March '90
NIN's live album in Jan '01
Rage Against the Machine in March of '96

Granted, none of these albums were nearly the event that a new Gn'R CD will be but just because it's not the standard doesn't mean Chinese Democracy won't come out in January, February, March or April.   I find it hard to believe that this is even a factor in the whole scheme of things but if it is, it's likely a low priority.

I wouldn't expect the release of Chinese Democracy to be a major event. IMO, this isn't going to be comprable to the release of the illusions were people line up at midnight to buy it and soundscans 1.5 millioin in the first week. Although the record label needs to make as much money as possible on this album so I think you will see it around the start of the christmas season if at all possible....that will be Geffens target date. If the November date isn't met than there will be a big problem for the band.

estranged,

Read your buddy's first response before criticizing me.

I just asked a question man, so calm down... And BTW, I never insulted you, so why bitch at me with that smartass fucking thing?
Anyway, back to topic...
I don't think we'll see CD this year.

I never said you insulted me but since you brought it up - when you said :  "When the fuck did Axl ever say that? (If he ever fucking did)" you insulted the credibility of my original post and implied that I made it up.  If you're gonna take that kind of tone with someone spouting vulgarities and making subliminal accusations you have to expect a reply like the one I gave you.  So don't try to water down the initial feeling of your first reply just because I chose not to let the issue go.  I ain't sweatin' it - just settin' the record straight.

Youve still yet to give any real source, and "I saw it on MTV news a long time ago" isnt exactly valid.

I didn't insult the credibility of your post nor did I imply you made that up, I was just asking about something  which seemed strange to me and that I knew nothing of. Just 'cause I said "fuck" or "fuckin'"...  it means nothing, it's just an expression, so dontcha take it so hard.

Peace
Rock on :beer:

Like I said - it was 1997.  I didn't exactly take the time to write down the exact time, day, and program that the news bit aired between.  Besides, I wasn't "reporting" it or adding to the rumor mill.  I just said that whenever someone other than Axl pulls a release date out of their ass about Chinese Democracy I think back to the comment MTV claimed Axl made.  Whether you choose to believe it or not is irrelevant to me.

And Gunner Fucker...

I don't care if you say "fuck this" or "fuck that" a thousand times but you can't be seriously trying to deny that your comment of "If he ever fucking did (say it)" was implying that my comment was made up.  But at any rate, bottoms up.:beer:



 

What, this quote? (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1429812/19970807/story.jhtml)

"All I can tell you is there will be an album when Axl says it's done."

Axl never did say it to MTV in fact, it was Geffen executive Bryn Brindenthal.

The bit I'm referring to aired before then.  I remember seeing that article sometime after.  Whether Axl actually said it to MTV or not makes no difference as they just repeated his words which is exactly what the Geffen exec. is doing in his quote.

there's a page and a half of bullshit now, with you two arguing about some dumb quote, and to set it straight I heard that too.  And it was Axl that said it.

Can't we all just get along?
 :peace:

I'll be linig up at midnight for it

I'll be lining up at 11:59 for it.

I don't read the message board for a few days, and when I do I come upon this news. Or quote. Or whatever. I am 24 years old. I will be 25 in February. In the time it has taken Axl to leave GN'R, stay quiet for a long time, form another band, and record this album, I have done the following. (I am starting my timeline from 93, when this whole thing started)

-Graduated from grade school '94
-Gone onto and graduated high school '98
-Attempted college and trade school '98 and '01
-Moved three or four times '98-present
-Had 4 boyfriends
-Had two cars
-Got married '02
-Aquired 25 tattoos and 22 piercings

And I still wait. I live my life, but I wait. I have waited every year, like everyone else. I want November to get here. I would love the album to come out. When November comes and goes, IF there is no album, I will be disappointed. Same as every year. But, you know what? There's some sort of material recorded. Sitting on a desk somewhere. Waiting to be heard. So I wait. I've waited too long to give up. To pack up and go home. The only GN'R fans I know of are the ones here. I never see fans around anymore. I will be here in November. And beyond. Will you?

Yes, I will.

I actually finished grade school in 1997 and then I finished junior high school in 2000. I graduated from High School on June 6th, 2003.

I'm not trying to mock you or anything but I just think a lot of people have timelines like that. Every since Axl Rose has started talking about CD through to know, that is basically the time period that I have grown up in.

yeah, but GnR is now a dictatorship... and it wasn't back then... Axl couldn't do jack shit to stop the members expressing their views.  We RAREly get any view from new band members now and I suspect its because in the back of their mind, they are concious of slagging off thier boss.

I suggest you watch GNr BTM.

Axl doesnt want them saying much because he wants to keep everything a secret and a surprise. When CD has an official date and the promos/interviews begin, we will begin to learn much more about the members in the band, the whole GNR experience, etc from the members themselves.
Till then the PR side is a dictatorship for the time being. BUt thats only on the pr side not the music side....

I agree.  I'm a year older than you and have been waiting basically half my life to get my hands on CD.  I'll keep waiting until it comes out.  Very well said.

No doubt. I know Axl will have some tasty stuff for us when CD comes out.

Oh, and....
Nice work  :beer: : ok:

@#$%Muther

I look at it this way...

I became a GNR fan in 96, right when the band broke up. After Duff left in 97, and we didnt get anything after OMG in 99, I was pretty much convinced I'd never see Axl perform live ever. After the cancellation of the 2001 tour after RIR3, I was completely sure of it. Then, all of a sudden, I'm watching the VMA's in 2002, and I hear Jimmy Fallon yell out "Guns N Fuckin' Roses!" The opening riff to jungle, Axl, and my jaw drops....3 months later, I was in Boston, witnessing the best concert of my life....we all know what happened a week after. Point is, even when things looked their bleakest, Axl came out and surprised me...the thought that he can do it again will keep me around  :)

Oh, I absolutely agree. I was the same way in 2002. I heard rumors that GNR would be playing the VMA'S. I wasn't going to watch it, because I heard the same rumors in years past. That night, I came on to this very message board, and read that there was a chance they would be playing. So I sat for 3+ hours waiting and hoping. When Pink came on stage with that t-shirt, I knew it was for real. And yes, when Jimmy Fallon announced it I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I was fortunate enough to see them play at MSG, and that is a night I will never forget. I know Axl has something up his sleeve, and it's definately enough to keep me around.


Oh, and thanks for the compliment Muther.  :) If I knew how to put pics up here, I would post a pic of my Axl tat. By far my favorite one I have.  ;D

Now that Axl has given Tommy permission to say a release date, I am just wondering if Axl can keep to it. Even if it doesnt come out in November could we be seeing it by the end of Mar 2005? Thats the latest you could consider early 2005.  I know Tommy just didnt pull that from his ass, Axl must of told him to tell people that.

So even if its not November I will be cool, but come march we can mark it down as Axl & Co's lieing.