Here Today... Gone To Hell!

We all know the music part is taken from toyko and the 2nd half of estranged the vocals are from toyko also, but where do the vocals of the first half of the song come from? Are they axls new voice in the studio or from a diff show?

If they are from the studio then that is what axls voice will mostly sound like on chin dem.

I believe they're re-done in the studio, especially since that's NOT what Axl sounds like at the actual Tokyo '92 show.

-Jeff

Its all re-done in the studio, including the 2nd part, which doesnt sound like Tokio at all... Axl never sounded like that live.

I could name like 5 or 6 songs that Axl didnt re-do the vocals in Live Era. Thats a shame, cause its really not a live album

All of the vocals on "Estranged" were re-recorded, including the second part.  If you notice, Axl changes one word in the last line of the song that gives it away.

In the Tokyo DVD, Axl says "But everything we've ever known's here.....".   But on the Live Era version, he sings "seems everything we've ever known's here..."

So that's a dead giveaway, in addition to the fact that the vocals sound slightly different.

The only vocal parts Axl did not re-record are the spoken intro ("nothing better to do than commit hari-kari"), and the "ladies and gentleman, on the keyboards, Mr. Dizzy Reed."

Which were the songs he re did in the studio (and how do we know that he did this?)

It's obvious that Axl re-recorded other songs for Live Era.  The most blatant offenders are "My Michelle", "Nightrain", and "Rocket Queen".  Christ, he never even sounded that good in the studio, much less live.

"Sweet Child o Mine" music was taken from the June 6, 1992 Paris pay per view show, but the vocals sound different on Live Era, so he re-recorded that one too, or he used a pro-tool to take the vocals from another show.

But the three songs I mentioned above are flagrant re-records.

Its not that hard to notice the songs he re did... Its almost the entire album. From the top of my head, the songs he didnt totally re do (although he may have added some overdubs) are

Patience
Dont Cry
Its so Easy
Knockin on Heavens Door
WTTJ
Yesterdays
Maybe Paradise City

Thats about it. The rest of the songs you can clearly notice they?ve been re done, Axl never sounded that "clean" live

Yeah, I have to say, much as I love Axl as a singer, he has a studio produced voice for the most part.  His vocal deliveries were always erratic and inconsistent throughout every live bootleg I own and every live show I've ever seen.  He would always flub and scratch notes, and sing certain parts off-key.

Dizzy,

  I don't mean to question your knowledge, but are you 100% sure that SCOM Live Era is from Paris, 6-6-92?  I have this show on audiocassette (I listen to it all the time).  It started out with Sail Away Sweet Sister (best intro. of it I've ever heard) and then they rip into SCOM.  But, a big but here, Duff screws up the intro. lines on bass guitar on the Paris show I've got on tape.  In my opinion, the Live Era SCOM is not Paris, 6-6-92.

BTW, "Paris, France, and the rest of the world watching...Do you know where the fuck you are???" kicks ass as an intro. to WTTJ.

Anyone else who knows the answer to this please weigh in too.  Thanks.

-Axl4Prez2004

Yeah it is from Paris 92. You can clearly see that on Slashs solo after that "Where do we go now part...". Its the same as it is in Paris. About the bass line, they may have fixed it in studio

The official list of live performances compiled for Live Era states that "Sweet Child O Mine" was taken from Paris 1992.  I was going by that.

how many times do i have to say this
the live era SCOM is NOT from paris, its from toyko.
Axls voice sounds just the same.
And the 2nd part of estranged is the same as toyko, the voice is just the same.
Maybe he changed one word in the 2nd part, but that is it.

Do we know that the re-done vocals on live era were not taken from another live gig and placed over top of the music from another gig.

I.E didn't they do 2 or 3 nights in tokyo... maybe the vocals were from the first night and the music from the second...??

Just trying to give axl the benefit of the doubt that he didn't actually sink as low as to re-record his vocals for a live album in the studio

The scom vocals are not redone since if they were they would have sounded much cleaner and higher.

If axl did redo the SCOM for live era, the whole thing would have sounded like the 2nd part of the big daddy version and it doesnt. The same goes for estranged, you can tell where the vocal t racks are differnt. The 2nd part of estranged is from toyko and not redone.

Live Era - Axl re-recordings....

Disc 1:

Nightrain
Mr. Brownstone
Welcome To The Jungle (after "do you know..." intro - some later verses original live)
My Michelle
November Rain

Disc 2:

Pretty Tied Up
Move To The City
You Could Be Mine (up to 'quickfire rant')
Rocket Queen
Sweet Child O' Mine
Estranged (after 'commit hari-carie' intro)

Dave here is the source listing for Live Era, taken right off of gnrontour.com. Sorry but I trust John's knowledge a little more.

Disc 1
1. Nightrain [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]
2. Mr. Brownstone [London, 8.31.91]
3. It's So Easy [Paris, 6.6.92]
4. Welcome To The Jungle
5. Dust N' Bones [New York, 5.16.91]
6. My Michelle [London, 8.31.91]
7. You're Crazy [Tokyo, 12.10.88]
8. Used To Love Her [Tokyo, 12.10.88]
9. Patience [1st half - Mexico '93 OR Paris, 7.13.93; 2nd half - Paris, 6.6.92]
10. It's Alright [Houston, 9.4.92]
11. November Rain [Tokyo, 2.22.92]
12. Coma [Omaha, 4.10.93] * ^

Disc 2
1. Out Ta Get Me [London, 6.28.87]
2. Pretty Tied Up [Tokyo, 2.22.92]
3. Yesterdays [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]
4. Move To The City [Tokyo, 2.22.92]
5. You Could Be Mine [Tokyo, 2.22.92]
6. Rocket Queen [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]
7. Sweet Child O' Mine [Paris, 6.6.92]
8. Knockin' On Heaven's Door [London, 4.20.92]
9. Don't Cry [Tokyo, 2.22.92]
10. Estranged [Tokyo, 2.22.92]
11. Paradise City [Las Vegas, 1.25.92]


Also it is evident that the entire album has been re-worked. In the cases that the Vocals weren't completely re-recorded they were touched up. Even the guitars are noticably re-recorded in places, Just listen to the guitar into from Pretty Tied up. Take Live Era and listen to it side by side with any bootleg of the show or the DVD......nothing about that guitar sound is even close.

Can you tell  me what does "hari -kari"means???  ??? ???

I couldn't care less where John thinks the songs are from, its just his opinion, its not offical to say the least. Do me a fave. Get out the toyko, the live era and the paris show.  Listen to Axls voice on all three and you tell me if you think Axls voice is from paris, he even changes words in the Paris show and its not the same on live era.   And how do you know what I know or who knows more than me?? Just use your ears, is that so hard to do?

We all know these songs have been cut and pasted and what I am telling you is, the  voice on SCOM is the one from toyko.

It has to do with sucicide for people in japan.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=4226



/jarmo

Speaking of Big Daddy
I Listened to the Tokyo Version of Sweet Child O' Mine along with the Live Era Version and the Big Daddy Version.

The Live Era version doesn't really sound much like either because it was touched up alot, but It sounds alot closer to the first half of the Big Daddy version than it does Tokyo. And if I'n not mistaken wasn't Big Daddy live from Paris.........and again if I'm not mistaken......isn't the reason the morph was done is because Axl was working on that track for Live Era (along with reheasing the old material with the new band.

Did you even listen to the paris version and then live era?
axls voice on live era is shot to hell but on paris is much better  and cleaner

Dave Axls voice in SCOM was redone in the studio. It doesnt sound like Tokio IN ANY WAY. The same goes for Estranged

BTW, in SCOM, the band playing is from PAris, thats for sure. Duff loses tempo with the bass line, the solo is the same, especially the last one

my point is axls voice on live era is not from paris.
It sounds like toyko just cleaned up.
And the 2nd part of estranged is from toyko only the first part is redone.
If axl re did the vocals from scom in the studio then his whole voice would have sounded like it did at the end of big daddy scom but it does not.
You can tell axls voice on scom and the end of estranged is shot to hell.

Most people in here started off by saying that his voice wasn't from paris.......it's from his home studio in his basement......It is imposible to pinpoint most of these songs based on his vocals...because they aren't from live shows in most cases. The music from SCOM is without a doubt Paris.......his vocals could be from any studio in LA.

Yeah now I get your point. But his voice was re done in the studio, it sounds NOTHING like Tokio, even if its cleaned a little bit. And the 2nd part of Estranged is redone, it sounds NOTHING like the tokio one, which is way more raspy

Edit: And example. The part where he goes "well I jumped into the river" is from tokio. After that when he goes "too many times to make it home", thats not from tokio anymore, thats re recorded

Am I the only person that things Jungle is from Tokyo
'92? Not saying that Axl's vocals weren't redone, but the music sounds basically the same to me..especially Matt's drum outro at the very end. Any thoughts?

Also, yes, Dave - I'm with the majority of others that agree that SCOM is from Paris '92. Again, the vocals could have been touched up or changed completely. The music is identical though, bro. Its the same with the version from Big Daddy..Paris '92, but Axl sounds totally different on that version too. Believe what you want, but Live Era's version is Paris '92.

-Jeff

I am not disputing the music part is from paris, I am saying his voice is not, but I dont think his voice is from the studio either because its still too shitty (hoarse) and it would be more like the end of scom big daddy or the first part of estranged.

But for all we know he could have taken the voice from 4 diff shows and made them one. But I listed to toyko you are right its not from that show either ,but his voice is closer to that than france.

On live era axl kinda studders the first verse (seems to me) but he does not neither on toyko or paris.

Okay Dave, now you're being ridiculous.  I am sure you don't really believe that Axl would waste time and studio money to change one word in the last verse.  He re-recorded the second part of "Estranged", plain and simple.  The evidence could not be any clearer.


That's what these guys have been saying all along, Dave.   :yes:


I agree, I think he took it from another show, because he could've easily redone it better than that.


We know he did some studio work on a "live" album because it's just there man.  You will never find a live bootleg anywhere where Axl sounds as good as he did on "My Michelle", "Nightrain", and "Rocket Queen".  As I said before, he doesn't even sound like good on any studio recordings.  The vocals from those three tracks were obviously re-recorded and then even tweaked after that, they were not taken from any live shows.

The non-Big Daddy part of SCOM from Live Era could have just been a studio rough take. Axl may have treated the re-recordings as in a live situation - a one off. The section in Big Daddy that features the new band is far more 'controlled' and perfected than any of the studio vocals on Live Era. Interestinly so since Axl is just a perfectionist.

This is really a great topic...(i mean it). ;)

Does this actually means that Axl was in the studio, and singing the Estranged part again, so its more like a studio version than live version???

And the other songs too???

I most say that i have never heard Axl singing so fantastic before, than in Estranged....

Yes, or he took vocals from another live performance and put them over the Tokyo music.  Either way, none of the singing vocals from "Estranged" were taken from the Tokyo show.


The vocals on the songs I mentioned before are obviously re-recorded in the studio.

Most if not all songs on Live Era were re-done vocally. You can tell just by listening to any show during the UYI tour and Live Era. The reason that they dont sound like his vocals on Appetite For Destruction is because he sang the way he used to sing live. If he sang the way he did on AFD or UYI, then people would defiantly know that he re-did the vocals, this way, singing like he did live, it would be a little harder to tell if he re-did vocals because he kind of sounds like he did on the UYI tour.

I have never thought about it....

Re-recorded is not just, remastered or mixing, is it?? He is actually doing the song all over again... Hmmm

Are other artist doing the same...? Because sometimes it sounds more studio than live versions...

Do you know what period of time Axl did that??

He did this around the time they were putting Live Era together. So probably around '98 and early '99.

July 1999. There is circumstancial (sp) evidence to suggest thats when he did it. Look at the 1999 news archives on this site.

what about the guitar part, Slash couldnt have done them in 98-99???

What Guitars??There?s no modified-re-recorded guitars on Live Era.The only guitar that?s changed is on Rocket Queen, That there is no Gilby-guitar, just Slash.Apart from that all the guitars don?t sound like re-recorded. :no:



Baby Slash//

They must have done something to guitar part... It sounds very clean... More than another booklets.... :-\

Most bands do fix up live albums.  The [live albums] that aren't fixed probably aren't worth listening to more than once or twice.

---Paul Stanley (KISS), 2003

Listen to Pretty Tied Up from Live Era then listen to it from Tokyo, then tell me that the guitars weren't re-worked........

Ill have to go home and listen to this album most carefully?which songs are we arguing were re done?

I really dunno why they did it. Fuck, it's the only song on Live Era with no 2nd guitar!! And this song is the best rhythm guitar work ever!!! (ok, it's top 5 at least)
Izzy played a lot better than Gilby in this track but Gilby is better than nothing! When Slash starts the ending solo we only can hear that annoying Dizzy's keyboard in background.  :no:
They could put the Tokyo version (even with a lot of fucked ups) with Axl new vocals and it would be way better. :-\

Yeah the Tokio version is the best ever for this song. That ending solo, when Slashs guitar and Axls voice complement each other is great.

BTW, theres no rhythm guitar in Estranged either

No way!!The best RQ live is Ritz 88!!!Yeah!!

BTW, theres no rhythm guitar in Estranged either

Once I was wondering this and I listened only to my left speaker: I thought there was a very very low rithm guitar, but it may be Slash guitar(wich is actually on the right side)
Damn, I?ll take a good listen now.......


Baby Slash//

No way dude. They fucked up all the time, Axl forgets to sing in some parts. Its just fucked up. The best for sure is Tokio. That Slash solo after that rap thing is awesome

No, Axl didn't "forget" to sing that song at the Ritz '88 show, he got pissed about something and walked offstage.  So yes, two parts of "Rocket Queen" from that show are missing vocals.

SCOM live erea version was totally redone in studio
and one thing about "nightrain": the mix and Axl's re-recording voice KICK ASS!
the mix on "nightrain" is phenomenal! the sound is really impressive. I hope we will heard a mix like that in "chinese democracy"...

If SCOM was totally redone in the studio then why does axl sound like shit?
Like I said, if it was tototally redone i the studio axl would have sounded like he did at the end of big daddy scom, but he does not.

I think I am the only one who thinks Axl sounds good on SCOM. He sounds exaclty the same as in the other Live Era songs

Do you mean like shit?Really dude, from 91 on Axl singed SCOM  horrible .
But in 87, 88, 89, he sounded awsome!


Baby Slash//

My guess is that when re-recording vocals they were still going for a live sound. If they didn't go for that live sound then it woud have been torn apart. Like Paul Stanley said all live albums are touched up, but they still have to sound live.
Big Daddy wasn't meant to sound authenticly live.

Axl cant make his voice sound like its blown out (and that is how he sounds on SCOM).  They just cleaned up a vocal track from another version.

Haha, I just listened to Estranged again. Two things about this:

1) There's no second guitar in the first half. Only Slash. Suddenly, when Dizzy goes with the piano solo, the clean rhythm guitar (Izzy/Gilby with Slash) starts. I assume that the second half of the song was from another source/show and...

2) When Axl sings "... and you don't walk so proud anymore and what for.." I can hear him singing (turned the volume really loud to hear this) "wow" right before Slash's solo. Exactly how he did in Tokyo. I guess Axl recorded the vocal over the original track.

Something like this happens in SCOM. When Slash plays the intro, I can hear (again, had to put very loud) Axl singing the ending of Bad Times (...to be in looooooooove..).
My point is: maybe the first half of Estranged and Rocket Queen could be only studio takes over some random drums/bass (??) live tracks. Can't think in another reason to not put rhythm guitar in Estranged first half and Rocket Queen.  ???

This is something that has always bothered me for some reason.. In my opinion one of the main reasons Estranged is as good as it is, is because there are the 2 guitars, on parts even three which you can clearly tell apart... This is very characteristic in all of the live shows after '90 or something. Izzy's or Gilby's guitars can only be heard in very few parts, like in the beginning of Don't Cry. Usually the 2nd guitar just drowns there, which I think is a pity. Not saying Slash's playing wasn't enough... Just that I think many of the songs would've been better if a decent rythm was present.

Like I said above, actually there's 2 guitars in Estranged, but only in the 2nd half.
But I agree with you, I think it's a shame. I love Slash, but the songs were made with 2 (or more) guitar tracks. Sounds wierd and like missing the heavy sound.
That's what I liked with the 3 guitars new line-up. All the guitar work in Rocket Queen was there. :)

Why all this re-recording. Why didn't they just record the songs and release them the way they are. Thats the only way to get their unique sound live.

Well the vocals are obvious, we all know Axl has an incredible insecurity complex, so he undoubtedly did not like the sound of his voice on many tracks.

As far as the guitars go, maybe there was a blatant error and they didn't want it on the record.

Yes, like Estranged. At the ending of the piano solo, Slash play in the wrong time (before it needed) in the original version in Tokyo. In Live Era, he re-recorded the guitar (altought I still can hear the original record under the new one).

I'm not sure if I buy that one, because there is another error Slash made in that recording that isn't fixed on Live Era, it's the original guitar from Tokyo.

Well, you don't have to buy this one. But you can listen carrefuly to the part I said. I can hear 3 guitars in this moment of the track and it's obvius to me that two of them are Slash but one is louder. Or even you can hear both versions (Tokyo and Live Era) and compare. The original guitar is brighter than the re-recorded. You can't hear this thing in the whole track, though. I dunno about this other error. If you tell me, I can hear it with more atention.

A quick question:

If Axl and Slash weren't on speaking terms when Live Era was released. And they only talked through there managers from an article i read.

How come Slash re-recorded some of his guitar parts?

Did axl ask him to?

Very true! :smoking:

Why would Axl have to ask him?   Slash probably just did it on his own to fix a few mistakes here and there, it had nothing to do with Axl.  Hell, I'm sure Slash didn't ask Axl to re-record the vocals.

So what??Didn?t Axl re-record almost all of the songs at least a bit?? That parts in ich he didn?t sing could have been re recorded.



Baby Slash//

He would had to re-record all the song, because his voice in Rocket Queen@Ritz was too far from his new voice.