Here Today... Gone To Hell!

So there's a thread on the solos on CB, but what I really want to know is what do you think of the lyrics on CB?

The only song with lyrics that stand out is HeadSpace.

I dunno ... when you talk about songs like FTP/LTA/YGNR .. they often seem lacking lyrically. Incomplete.

And sometimes it gets even worse because it seems cliched.

Now I loved Scott's voice on a number of songs. But this was before I read the lyrics. I mean he's outstanding on many tracks .. Illegal I/FTP/HeadSpace/YGNR/LTA .... but lyrically he only stands out on one.

How is this compared to his work in STP?

I agree headspace probably has the best lyrics on the album, but I don't like the phrasing when he says "..fuckers in my headspace" it sounds crap to me.  The rest of the song I like though.

I think all the vocal melodies are pretty awesome, but the lyrics are deffinitely the low point of the album for me.  I mean, what the fuck is he talking about "I never noticed how lovely the aliens were"???  It doesn't even seem to be a strange metaphor tieing in with the rest of the song.  It just seems like random crap.

I honestly believe if Axl had been given these tracks, and had been allowed to arrange them, and write new lyrics and vocals, this album would be three times better than it is.

Basically Scott sounds like an amateur.

So because youre unsure of its meaning, it has none?  


Sigh...

I like VR and i like the way Scott sings


But the lyrics are a disagrace - they make no sense, any one of us can write random lyrics about doing drugs - the skill is to write emotive coherant lyrics that mean something to the audience - take Paradise City for example, do the lyrics literally mean anything? No - but they create the appropriate image and emotion

Buts whats Sucker Train Blues about for example? Oh u can guess - but the lyrics mean nothing

Not one song on Contraband means anything to me thank good the guitars etc compensate!

I think the lyrics are solid overall.  Some of it does seem to be nonsense i.e. "Sucker Train Blues" but I am sure it means something to Scott.  Scott is definitely less wordy than Axl, but it works most of the time.  As for LTA I think the "I never noticed how lovely were the aliens" line refers to Scott's children.  I think it is a cool line and fits well with the song.  Just because you don't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Yes - but in this case the lyrics really don't make sense - but worse they don't really create an image or emotion which lyrics should - u can't relate to the lyrics either - over all, not a great effort by Scott...

The lyrics on CB are not outstanding.  They are good, but not great.  However, the music is exceptional.  If you gave these songs to Axl and told him to write lyrics and sing the songs without him having any input in the music, you'd get a great fucking album IMO!  

I'd be afraid to give him a say in what I consider to be outstanding music as it is now.  I'm afraid he'd rework it a million times and add orchestration and voice over nonesense, and the music would lose its hard edge.

But Axl is superior to Scott when it comes to writing lyrics.  It takes him longer also.

-TyRod-

First of all, even so-called nonsensical lyrics are open to interpreatation.

Second, who are you to determine whether they make sense or not?  You dont understand them...If they make sense to Scott and others, then what do you know?


Speak for yourself.

Hi Booker - one wonders if visit the board just to disagree with people

Even u - the world's most zealous VR fan (oh dear....i'll be in trouble for that), even u can't claim the lyrics make sense or are very good - if i cared i would post in sections to demonstrate Scott is either still on drugs or has no idea what to write any more :P

And...u say u can relate to the lyrics? So ur a recovering drug addict who's wife has just taking your children off with her? Damn, sorry to hear that man.

Booker is right.  Just because they don't make sense to you, doesn't mean they are nonsensical.  They mean something to scott, and no matter how much fans want to be greedy and think the lyrics should be accessible to them on first listen, it's scott and the band's song, not yours.  I personally believe STB is written about a heroin trip.  Scott did this on STP's 'trippin on a hole in a paper heart'.  By the title, you can see that the lyrics don't make sense on a traditional level, but who cares.  I think scott's mysterious lyrics take the imagery to another level.  Kind of makes the songs bigger than just your ordinary rock song.  A lot of it is difficult to understand, but i find it fascinating to peer into the mind of a bi-polar heroin addict.

THEY FUCKIN' RULE!

I'm tellin' you guys that these lyrics DO make sense- its just how we INTERPRET them!

The lyrics are mainly based around Scotts life!

I think his voice fits the music fine!
He is Gunner go far!
He rocks!
I mean i adore YGNR- but all of the songs rock- bothe lyric wise, voice wise, and also music wise!  :beer:

Just because you personally relate to them, doesn't mean that nobody relates to them.  LTA connects with me very much, as much as any GNR ballad.  Other songs that connect with me lyrically are Headspace, Big Machine, YGNR, FTP, Slither.  Some of the songs I am not quite sure exactly what Scott is singing about, but lyrics are only one way to get across a meaning.  There is also tone and atmosphere and attitude.  I think Scott does a good job of using other more abstract artisitic words and singing styles that leave the songs open to interpretation.  That's just my opinoin though, I am not trying to present it as a fact as you seem to do with your opinions.

I think the difference in lyrics from Scott's Writing to Axl's writing is simple. Axl's writing in songs seem to tell a story. They are songs people will sing along and can relate to. Scott's lyrics are the kind people will sing along to and interept in a way to make sense to each listener.

Axl the story teller with his wonderful novels that make great ballads and his rockers who makes us drink that extra drink at the bar when we hear his songs. Songs like Nov Rain can be related to about the true love that just wont last

Scott the poet. With his lyrics that make sense to some and make no sense to others. Like a true poet they can be interepted in any way the listener likes. FTP could be interepted in many ways by the listener

Eventually i will copy down a load of VR lyrics to illustrate my point - but instead i will just ask u open ur booklets infront of u

Some how i don't think the worlds great lyricists are quaking in their boots.....

Anyway to keep this thread vaguely intresting:

What do people think each song is about - i don't detect any meaning to any of them - 'rape my tapeworm abortion' ::) - so maybe between us we can get some idea of what Scott thought he was writing about.....

I explained my interpretation of STB in my previous post.  Other than STB I don't believe most of his lyrics are difficult to understand.  In fact, by Weiland's standards, they are downright transparent.  Just make a small effort, and I'm pretty sure you can understand the meanings.  If you can't "detect any meaning to any of them"  then I question your ability to comprehend and analyze.

Touche!

Okay then whats the meaning of say - Superhuman? Scott's experience with Superman?? Or the delightful Headspace?

Don't answer with 'drugs' - try and be a little more constructive

What on earth is Illegal i song about? And Spectacle? I am sitting here with the booklet reading 'rocket bitch is blasting off/right on target yeah/boots laced up i'm here to go' and i have no idea what he is on about

Drugs. Great. Some people can write about drugs and make songs that make sense.....

why do you do this to yourself?  here goes:

Superhuman- Obviously this song is speaking of his battles within the last year with chemicals.  Specifically, he is telling his story through a female character.  Superhuman refers to the fact that we, the ordinary fans, look to rock stars and celebrities in general, to be heroes, or superhumans.  It also refers to the feeling that you get when you are high, like you are invincible.  If you have kept up with Weiland news the past year you would notice that he references real life situations.  Gettin high crashin cars and makin mistakes, that refers to his DUI that is hanging over his head right now.  "A man is a destination never known, sometimes dressed up like a red hot lady in pumps'...yep, duff has talked about weiland dressing up in drag and going to MacArthur Park to score drugs.  

Headspace- This song isn't difficult at all.  He's talking to the media, as well as the thoughts he's had while contemplating suicide.  He says he's trudging through a mine field, built to blast, can I make it will I last.  Basically, this is the junkie lyfestyle.  At anytime he could overdose and die.  When is he going to hit that mine?  The fuckers are the media and people who question why he's such a fuck-up.  He further references them as the cancer and the leech, sent to bleed him of disease (in other words, suck out a story about his addiction.   Living taking chances, isn't all that it's meant to be=Rock and roll glitz isn't all it is cracked up as.  Perhaps the best lyric of the album is next:  Dying with your face on a T-shirt isn't all that original, directly referencing Kurt Cobain.  When Kurt killed himself, thousands of alternative kids had a kurt cobain T-shirt with his face on it, and under his face was his birth and death dates.  Weiland says that isn't the road he wants to take.

I have more interpretations, but i'll go ahead and post these.

Spectacle-  another song to those who doubt him.  He uses the 'boots laced up, I'm here to go' as a fight metaphor.  Like he's fighting against the verbal assault of other.  'In the end I'll stand alone'--he will take the insults, but when all is said and done, he will still be around, be successful, and have a legacy to boot.  'You write the list, now write me off'-those saying he is the next in a list of rockstars to die.  'Rocket bitch is blasting off'-he's the rocket bitch, which he uses to tie into the 'blasting off' phrase--simply means his career is taking off with this new band.  'It begins to rain and I'll knock you right back down again'--the media are vultures.  They wait for something to go wrong, then kick you when you're down.

Some cool insight there - i guess your right, but i don't know about you but i could have written that much better and clearer - a song where u need to know the guys life history and slowly disect each line to work out just a educated guess isn't really my idea of a great song writer.

So you're saying that a lot of David Bowie's songs are shit because a lot of his songs don't make sense to those with tiny minds and can't interpret the songs or relate to them in their own way. It's the same with Scott. That doesn't mean that his lyrics have no meaning to him.  Just because you don't understand his songs doesn't make them random crap, or that they have no meaning at all.


It's all a matter of opinion, and how someone interprets the songs. Just because the lyrics don't make sense to you, doesn't mean they don't make sense to another person. Booker only said that because you don't understand them, doesn't mean that they have no meaning at all. You don't know what Scott pictured in his mind when he wrote the songs. And you don't know what other people think of when they hear the songs.

yeah, sorry izzy...I came across as a bit of an arrogant ass in those posts.  I just really get into debating.  No offense meant though.

Yeah the lyrics do make sense but they are a bit to simplistic like they were put together with no real thought the lyrics may have some meaning to the band and to some fans but they certainly do not show any lyrical skills on the part of Velvet Revolver

Don't put words in the poor guys mouth - and please, there is no need to insult people who disagree over a song

Its a rather strange point to make that because Scott understands them they make sense and have meaning - a person might believe that the moon is made of cheese, Tony Blair is his daughter and aliens live in dustbins - doesn't change the fact thats nonsense, yet it means something to them

Obviously the songs are intended to have a meaning and made sense to the author - doesn't make them good lyrics

I would describe good lyrics as those that convey something the listener can understand and/or relate to and which are relatively easy to interpt.

If one has to guess and repeatedly read through the booklet my guess is something hasn't gone as well as it could have - Scott knows of his problems, the songs make sense to him, but Joe Bloggs on the street that likes the album but barely knows who's in the band won't know about these problems -  to him it will make no sense. An understanding of the audience is crucial  - Scott is demonstrating a very limited understanding of this.

U don't need to even know who Axl Rose is to understand 'Estranged' its accesible to anyone - but if u have to know of Scott's problems with the media to understand 'Headspace' or about his DUI to understand Illegal i etc than Scott really hasn't done a good job

I was gonna actually start a topic about the lyrics. I have heard some people knock them. I personally think there are some awesome lyrics on this CD. Thats all I have to say. It's all a matter of tatse.

my beef is for that half the record if you want to know the lyrics you need to look in the damn lyric book, nobody here could understand what hes singing just by listening

and the lyrics are weak

Headspace has the best lyrics on the album

Izzy, these are the kind of lyrics I prefer as well.  But 'good lyrics' (like good verse) means different things to different people, and even different things to the same person at different times.

Among the rockers, I think Big Machine, Do it for the kids, and Headspace are easy to interpret.  I would not call them masterful lyrics by any means, but they fit the mood of the song.  As for the ballads, I interpret them in different ways each time I listen - I like that.  


I had to read through the booklet because I cant really make out what Scott is saying in the fast songs.  It was like that at the concert too.  

The song lyrics that I was completely put off by is STB.  So they're about drugs?  Fine, but listen to the lyrics of Space Oddity by David Bowie.  Now there's a brilliant song about heroin, and it tells a story!  : ok:

here is the bottom line

i love VR i think their cd is good, but im defending my bro izzy here


if I had wrote those lyrics

if nickelback or creed or fred durst had wrote those lyrics

if scott wasnt with slash and duff and matt and wrote those lyrics

i would then love to see how many on the board defended those lyrics

scott does well singing those lyrics but if u just read the lyrics alone by themselves they are pretty mediocre and i dont understand how anyone could argue otherwise

Good post,

In my defence i readily acknowledge that while i don't believe the lyrics to make much sense and be badly constructed that they do fit the songs and are quite catchy - i like Scott's singing style

My point was just about what the lyrics mean - after all i like the songs, the weakness of the lyrics doesn't destroy the album but i think is a point that can be raised with it

Its pretty evident that without the lyrics booklet and an deailed history of Scott's problems the songs are virtually impossible to decipher

Now maybe that works for some people but that just seems a weak effort to me

See, that is how you would describe good lyrics, but someone else might have a different opinion as to what makes good lyrics. Think what you want to, but I still don't think you should claim that his lyrics have no meaning when you don't know what was in Scott's mind when writing the songs. I think good lyrics are ones that many people can relate to at different times and interpret in their own way, and that doesn't have to mean telling a story.


All I said was just because they don't make sense to some of you, doesn't mean that they don't make sense to anybody. Of course if you take them literally then of course they aren't going to make sense, but who is that closed minded?

And as for them not having meaning, as I said, you don't know what was on Scott's mind when he wrote the lyrics. If you don't understand the meaning, fine. Doesn't mean there isn't one. Different people can relate to the songs in different ways, and just because we don't know what Scott was thinking when he wrote the songs just by listening to them, doesn't mean that we can't have our own interpretation of them. If you just cannot in any way relate to the songs, fine, but speak for yourself and not everyone.


And a lot of people might think that the Jean Genie lives on his back and loves chimney stacks... That whole song, and many other of Bowie's songs, some of my favorite songs ever, can't be taken literally, but that doesn't make them bad songs or bad lyrics. And people have their own interpretations of his songs and can relate to them in different ways.


Tell that to Bowie fans - and there are many of them. I don't think they think his lyrics are shit just because they "don't make sense."

erm... take a listen to YOUR stuff before slating VR's music!  haha... I mean... Holy shit dude... what's this crap???

"no one pays the price i pay
everybody's talkin', walkin' away
but no one pays the price i pay
everyday
i'm the one"

... duh


I'd actually like to point out one thing here... to all the jackasses who seem to forget... lyrics mean the least in a vocal part... the most important bit is the MELODY!  Which Scott has loads of.

I have to agree with Izzy,

People who say that lyrics are open to interpretation and cannot be classified as "good" by one person, that's bs.

This kind of thinking opens up the door to 13 year old pseudo intellectuals writing nonesense and then hiding behind the notion that "lyrics are open to interpretation"  to sound smart.

A great lyric means an effective and creative way of sending out a message. A great lyricist will find a perfect point of balance between these two.

Otherwise, if you claim this issue to be so subjective, whats the point of arguing over it? Well the point is, it's not as subjective as many of you want it to be, and at the end of the line, there are quality standards.