Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Have not been around much lately (working like mad, writing, going to shows, etc.), but as I was burning down the freeway today while rocking out to "Sucker Train Blues," I realized a few things that Velvet Revolver did (some so obvious it is sick) that Axl and company should have done in 2002.

Looking forward to your thoughts, and hope the Sanctuary team is taking notes;  moreover, as I will express later:  I think right now is their last opportunity to make this new GNR work, but only if they drink enough prune juice to get off the pot.

1)   Releasing a single for a movie, and then promoting it, making a video to go all over the internet, and pumping it for radio play was VR's first brilliant move.  OMG could have been significant, imho, if only a video and push was made for radio play.  Moreover, a few 'secret gigs' playing about four or five new songs at that time would have primed the band for a huge return.  Instead, we get Axl's forced explanation, and nothing.  No radio interviews, no gigs, no video, no net streaming.

2)  Rehearsal, rehearsal, rehearsal!  It is obvious, that VR rehearsed vigorously before they recorded.  They were able to cut a solid rock album in about two months of recording.  Strikingly, I think Frontline mentioned that recording costs were very low and that this came from all FIVE members being at rehearsals and contributing. The albums production is perfect!  It is important to work hard at whatever trade one chooses--and if you are a musician, practice and most importantly practicing interaction with other players is a must.  You must learn how to "team" write if you are hoping to be a great band.  Solo writing is for solo artists.  Great rock bands depend on a freight train-cohesive rhythm section for the leads to 'snake' around--this fusion in the writing and playing comes from hours of learning each bandmembers intricacies, and leads to the magic.  If only Axl and co. would rehearse together.  I am sure they have some, like before Rio, and their aborted tour, but from what I gather personally, and from the new bandmembers comments Axl is still AWOL from sessions, and does his vocal parts solo.  Not good--not really a band.

3)  How ingenious to do a theatre tour to build buzz!  How frickin simple and practical!  How financially sound, and wow what a way to make the product desired.  MAKE IT EXCLUSIVE, SOLD OUT, AND INTIMATE FOR YOUR DIE-HARD FAN BASE.  MOREOVER, IF YOU SCREW UP, ONLY 2000 PEOPLE SEE IT, AS OPPOSED TO 9,000.

When VR sold out their theatre tour in ten minutes--it became a headline.  Moreover, the ticket became a hot item:  "it's a sold out show!"  
Start with reality, and work into the stadiums.  Moreover, the bootlegs sound quality is ten times better.  

GNR's 2002 tour should have been a theatre tour, with then secondary arena dates scheduled in the following markets:  Toronto, LA, New York, Miami, Philly, Phoenix, Mexico City, Rio, Tokyo, London, Sydney, and Paris.

Could one imagine the press they would have received had they scheduled 25 theatre dates (2000 seaters) and the inevitable sell out of all dates on the same day it went on sale?  That is how a band generates buzz.  Moreover, due to better acoustics and intimacy--reviews tend to be better.  The press, just a many music fans, love the blue-collar nature of dirty rock bands, playing dirty theatres with smoke filling the place, and booze pouring.

4)  Sex, Drugs, and Rock n' Roll!  It sells, it works!  VR embrace their dangererous past, and promote danger in vigorous ways.  Axl's PR man should tell him to quit cutting down Slash in a condescending way for being loaded, and just embrace the story and explain just how crazy those days were.  Stay a bad-ass.  The fans want a rock star, and if that is your trade, embrace it.

5)  Use natural talent, and build on strength of players in the band.  Don't try to be something you are not.  VR laid down simple heavy rhythms and used Weilands great harmonizing/improvising a harmony skills, and Slash's snake like ability to slither around chords to perfection.

IMHO, Axl's strength has always been his ability to put emotion into std. Stones type rock songs--the players and talent to rock are there (Stinson, Finck, Fortus, Brain, and Dizzy are stars in their own right) now get in the room and cut thirteen rockers written by everyone.  Rehearse, quickly and spontaneously record and schedule theatre dates.

6) Sanctuary should ride the coattails of VR's rock revival and the buzz coming from the Behind the Music and a possible Press field day with a GNR vs. GNR competition.  It could be the last chance, and a perfect chance, to explode within their own means and have street creditibility at the same time.

Just my two cents--your thoughts?

Yep, that's it. VR did a theatre tour as a strategic move to "intimate the fan base" and create better sound quality for bootleggers. It had nothing to do with the fact that they'd come nowhere close to selling enough tickets to have an even halfway successful concert tour.

#1 Axl did RIR3 in 2001 that was huge promotion, he even got quite a bit of good reviews for Rio, if he released a single soon after Rio, then they would have taken off. That is probably what Axl had in mind for RIR4 but BH left the band and it put a wrench in his plans.

#2 Not to bash VR here but the album is just decent, there are a few great songs but too much filler, they should have taken a few more months and worked on the songs more and the album would have been better. Also, like mentioned before supposedly Axl and co  have done 3 albums to be released over the next several years, so that is a wait and see. If that is true, and we get 3 gnr albums over the next 3-5 years then it will have been worth the wait. Just look at how much the songs have evolved from RIR3,. They have gotten so much better; I wonder how much better the other songs we have not heard got during this time.

#3 Gnrs 2002 did not sell out every show for two simple reasons. One, there was little to no promotion for that tour, most people did not even know about it.  Second, they did not have an album or single to go with the tour. If gnr had a single on the radio and a release date every show would have sold out of came close. Most of the big markets like Boston, NY and Philly sold out or came pretty damn close.  Look at how well overseas gnr did, that is bc they were promoted over there.

#4 I don?t want to hear 40-year-old men talking about sex and drugs it just sounds stupid.  Axls lyrics are much deeper and that is why a lot of people prefer his lyrics to other musicians.

# 5 I think Madagascar is one of the best gnr songs ever written and that is nothing like he has done before. Before estranged came out Axl did nothing like that before. Axl likes to progress in music not make the same album over and over again like ac dc does.

#6 Axls music will speak for it self, and when it?s all said and done, I think Axl will release an amazing album and it will have been worth the wait.

I agree with you dude 100%!

This point makes sense and is well thought out.

Keep it simple.

Axl should have stuck to small venues. He would have sold them out for sure. I think his ego was too big for that. I really do.

I am listening to this album right now, and these guys did a great thing. There is power and sweat behind it.

Of course it isn't AFD. I didn't expect, or even want that. But I did get what I thought I'd get, and a little more.

Great post.

The VMA's and Rio were two wasted opportunities that will not come around again. The ball was dropped heavily on those, and I am hoping whoever advised them to do those with no material on the way to capitalize off the buzz needs to be fired. Those opportunities will not come around in the same form again as GNR is viewed as somewhat of a failed venture thus far, and they will have to re-prove themselves before they are handed headlining slots again after they bowed out of Rio. I think everyone on this board would be amazed how easy all this might be if there was actually a cd coming out in the forseeable future.

GNR will do all the interviews,press, singles, videos,etc...when the album is ready. That is the key. No more stop n go's. When they are ready to release the album that is when you will see a promotional and marketing scheme liek no other......

I agree. Ive been saying this from day 1. Gnr should have went on a qucik major city tour in 2002. It could have been arenas too. Just do the major cities. Create a buzz and the band still gets out of the studio with a purpose. Instead they went on a dumb tour.....

It might sell but it doesnt mean shit. I dont need to see 40 yr olds try to do what they did 20 yrs before. Its gay and shows immaturity in my eyes.
Axl is still a badass . He just not the immature badass. He still does dickhead things but its much different than back in the day.

I wouldnt sya it was perfection. IMO VR's album is rushed. But aside from that, can you wait to see what gnrs album sounds liek before you deem their music a failure or not the proper way to do things....

They have done that and produced more than 50 songs together. Actually 70 songs/3 albums worth. I agree they should release it but obiviosuly theres a lot more that goes into this.


Im not worried 1 bit in terms of promotion for GNR. The only obstacle is getting an official release date. Once that happens , the marketing and promotional plans the company has planned will kick into gear. It will prob be much like VR, maybe more. Theres a lot riding into this project. SO the promotion/marketing will be there. They dont need to take lessons they need to just get Axl to release it. Its as simple as that.

YG-
I know you always point to the 3 albums thing as a good thing, reason we have no album but don't you think its a little ridiculous to record other albums before you release one? I know the point is to do some 2-3 year tour(and we all know there is absolutely no chance Axl can handle years of touring without some type of meltdown), but if the first album isn't recieved as well as hoped by the public they may have to try a different approach, and leave them with a whole bunch of material that they can't use right away/ at all. I think that has been the cardinal mistake of this entire project. They should have recorded one album and went from there. Depending on the publics reaction it will shape alot of what GNR does from that point on. Plenty of artists have put out good albums that don't sell well, and poor sales of this album will kill this band. He should have just put all his eggs in one basket and not worried about what happened next. Also, appearing before he was ready to actually release an album killed the whole mistique of the new band by appearing and then dying off again. He will never be able to re-create the VMA's....that was the time to strike.

I agree that VR has done everything perfectly up to this point.  I think the club tour was brilliant because club shows are always better than arena shows.  They are already getting a reputatiuon as an amazing live band.  Actually releasing an album was also a good move  :).  Whether or not it is a good album is a matter of taste, I personally think it rocks.  While I can appreciate Axl's desire to do things his way, it seems like he fucks up every step of the way.  Going on an arena tour after being MIA for 10 years without a new album and playing all the old GNR songs without any of the other original memebers (but with a dude wearing a KFC bucket on his head) and then cancelling the tour half way through is classic Axl.  Nobody else could pull that off, I will give him that.

Aside from the 2002 tour when exactely has Axl "melted" down? The 2002 tour was a bust. BUt where was it goin. There was no point in it and it was poorly planned. It has nothing to do with GNRs future. Plus its not like Axl has never toured for years at a time....

Its a fair point. But they obiviously have a plan and are sticking to it. They obiviously feel strongly about the material as well.

I think its safe to say theres still a mystique regarding the material and whats locked in those vaults.

I understand what your saying but they have a plan. This band began in 98/99. They were ready to go ahead with it but then bucket left. Now they have to get that situation fixed. This is a touring band and the players involved love to tour. They want to attack this while the iron is hot. So whenever that bell rings it will be a GNR blitz for a few years{providing the material is good}. Its not rocket science....If the album is excellent everything wil be fine..if it flops it flops.....the thing is they are doing things on their terms. iTs up to you if you wanna wait or leave. or both or whatver the fuk u wanna do...either way your gonna find out fo yoself

Naupis I understand your point but then I understand why Axl wants to record 3 albums before releasing 1 and thats simple. He has hired personel there, once the contract runs up from one of the members they can easily leave or just break the damn thing like Fuckethead did. And he would need to rebuild the band again. Recording 3 cds now ensures that he has the intact band he needs to record them.

I'm sorry, with all due respect I have to laugh at the '3 album thing'. How long have I been hearing this BS? I mean, we don't even have a release date for one album here ! Some of you guys need to pinch yourselves and wake up!

No offense really, I'm being serious.

VR took something, had a plan, and is living it right now.

Axl will get another chance. But only with an album, and he knows it.

Why is it bs? If you wanna say the whole process is bs fine, but to say that what they actually have is bs is being dumb. They have 3 albums worth of material. Whther you think they will release 1, 2 or 3 is your opinion but you cant dispute fact.

Gnr has made 3 albums, has a plan and when there ready they will be living it as well....

The three album myth is just that:  myth, until it is released.  I remember clearly in 1995 Matt Sorum and Duff saying that they had thousands of hours of DAT tape and many songs done.  We never saw any of them, and one by one the members left.  Sometimes it seems like this is a coached PR statement, like "suggested answer to questions in interviews" as defined by the GNR team's public relation dept.

On the other hand, I am sure that they have 70 riffs, parts of songs, choruses, progressions, and what not, but not all are completed songs.  I think that rehearsing, writing--like maybe renting a remote house in Argentina for a month where all the bandmembers would lock down--and creating together would finish this product.  Until one album is done, I would not believe that there are three completed albums.  Here is one example of an uncompleted song:  Chinese Democracy.  The tempo is always being tinkered with; moreover during the verses "It don't really matter..." before the chorus there is little to no rhythm or guitar chord progression providing a back drop or something that Finck can rip around, and compliment the lyrics with.  Fortus could slam power chords in those areas with Finck sliding and vibing off it; but, it is just not there.  Another unfinished piece is Silk Worms.  The songs need work, and catchier guitar sections and some melodic rhythm.  Therefore, I doubt there is truly three albums worth of finished material.  If there was one album of material ready, Interscope would have released it instead of the Greatest Hits.  I think that was released to recoup the CD recording costs.  

Axl seems to confuse "rehearsing" with "recording" and it ends up costing much, and that brings unecessary pressure and bad karma into the project.  Heck lock down, with the band who is more than willing, at your mansion if you have to.  My suggestion:  bring in Izzy to write some basic chord progressions.  Hell, Gilby Clarke is available if need be.  Whatever they do though, they need to write at least six strong rockers to go along with "This I love," "The Blues," and "Madagascar" which are all great slower tempo songs.  Put on Crash Diet, OMG, and Shadow of Your Love and all of a sudden there is a 12 song album.

But, guys Axl has a real chance here.  The buzz that would be created by announcing a release date in the near future, and then scheduling theatre dates in LA, New York, Chicago, Philly etc. would create a press feeding frenzy:  "Axl's Guns vs. Slash's Revolver."  I can just see the headlines, and the buzz!

Posted by: younggunner  Posted on: Today at 06:26:03am  
Quote:
How long have I been hearing this BS?
 
Why is it bs? If you wanna say the whole process is bs fine, but to say that what they actually have is bs is being dumb. They have 3 albums worth of material. Whther you think they will release 1, 2 or 3 is your opinion but you cant dispute fact.

Quote:
VR took something, had a plan, and is living it right now
 
Gnr has made 3 albums, has a plan and when there ready they will be living it as well....  


Have you heard these mythical 3 albums or have any evidence that they exist?  From different sources you could probably prove that there is 1 albums worth of material.  If Axl is your only source, I am not sure he is the most reliable person.  If he actually has a plan it is either the dumbest plan ever or it is so diabolically brilliant that us mere mortals could not begin to understand it.

Now THAT'S a good idea!  :D

To the people who insist the whole three album thing is a myth.

Brian May stated a few years ago that Axl had 3 complete albums worth of material that axl had him listen to, he also said Axls singing on the songs were outrageous, so those 3 albums also had vocal tracks on them. Brian May is not in gnr nor he is associated with them, it was just a few throw away questions in the middle of a Brian May interview about what he did in gnr and what he heard.  So why would Brian May lie about there being 3 albums done? What is so hard to understand about this?

Question:  Does everyone concur that this would be good timing for a late summer/fall theatre tour, with a 3rd week November release?  

NY Times headline in October could be:

"GNR retake the Ritz:  Axl's Guns vs Slash's Revolver!"


AP
New York

Axl Rose, playing a surprise gig in the theatre which arguably brought GNR into America's living room in 1987, rolled out ten previously unheard songs, combined with the legendary hits in front of a raucous wild-eyed crowd.  Rose put to rest rumors of his demise, and comfortably led his talent-laden Guns through a two hour set, with an  encore consisting of Civil War and a jaw-dropping tribute to the late John Lennon titled "Catcher in the Rye."  

Rose, who did not comment on the dismissal of eccentric guitarist Buckethead, or his recently gone quadruple platinum old partners in Velvet Revolver, displayed the raw vocal range which led to his meteoric rise.  The new songs, many penned by Stinson and Fortus, returned to the melodic, guitar driven blues based tonic which defined the bands 90 plus million selling catalog--although all had a very contemporary edge and did not seem dated.

After the show Rose mentioned that "we had become extremely bogged down in the studio for a few years, and Tommy brought in about twelve songs, Robin brought in some great riffs, and Richard started figuring out chord progressions.  It finally came together last spring, and we were able to go in and record the final 10 album tracks in about 10 days.  Obviously Cather, The Blues and Madagascar--which will be on the album--were already finished. It was time for all of us to rediscover our muse, and enjoy working together in rehearsal creating something so emotionally powerful, yet playful and contemorary.  All of us have battle scars from our past excesses, and we drew upon our pains to write and finish these songs."

What's next for the rejuvenated Gunners?

"We will continue to do club and theatre dates in Chicago, LA, Miami, the Filmore in San Francisco, and then head to Europe for dates in Stockholm, London, Paris, and Berlin.  The album drops in November, and if all goes according to plan we will do Vegas NYE show, take off January, and then begin a Spring and Summer festival, and amphi-theatre tour."  

"We're going to scale back from our last tour, which partly was my fault, but logistically was too much too soon for this band.  We really needed more time building our cohesiveness before playing 30,000 seat arenas.  Plus, we did not have the album ready, it was not the most brilliant business move we've made."

Will the Gunners be back at MSG anytime soon (2002 was great if anyone missed)?

"If plans hold together, we should be playing there in February or March.  See you then."


_________completely hypothetical, but would work imho

So, do you think this is a good time to strike?  I do

Fact?  ??? Why 'cause Axl said it?  :hihi:

Fact!!???? You are living in FANTASY WORLD!!

You saying "fact" takes all all cred. away from you bro!

FACT..... :rofl: :rofl:

This is how you guys define a fact: Axl mentions something a long time ago. Then you guys whip it into a frenzy for a year or so on this board. Then, you've said it so much you believe it's true.

I'll only take it as a fact..when I have the 3rd album in my hand.  :o

I didn't say Axl wasn't going to deliver. But from what he has shown us so far it doesn't look to good. Hey, I was ready back in 2002 , and the guy dropped the ball! So I base what I say on that FACT.

Well whoop-dee-freakin'-doo! Brian May said that Axl had three albums worth of material.

So what!

I don't see any albums. I don't see Axl dropping a release date. I don't see a band that does ANYTHING. This is not a band that I see.

So you guys can sit back and sing all day long about 3 albums if it make you feel better. But he hasn't given us jack shit, and he probably won't!

Thank you old man!

Somebody with some common sense! And a good sense of humor to boot!  ;D

So does anyone think it's time for Axl to convene the forces and get the show on the road--like this could be the moment?

BTW--anyone catch that NY Ritz fantasy plug.  LOL!!

At the VMA's Axl said that they would be back in the studio after the American leg of the tour and take if from there.

I feel that there were 2 very good reasons to do the 2002 tour they did.

1) To let the world get to know the players as Guns N' Roses (hence playing the old songs)

2) To allow the players the experience of playing together that builds the chemistry that is necessary for a band.

and about the size of the shows...  I believe the smallest attendance they had was approximately 6 thousand and the largest being 15 - 20,000 (not sure on the largerst number - if anyone knows I welcome the info).  A club/theatre tour (if this was even an option for them) would have left many, many fans out of the shows.  As far as playing the smaller towns/cities - if they had 'skipped' them (again, if this was even an option for them) again - it would have left many fans out in the cold.

about the 3 albums - sure, no one can prove their existense.... but, is it really beyond the realm of possibiity - probability even - considering the amount of time that the material has been in production?

regarding marketing and promotion - I agree that nothing will or should happen or be said at all until everything is ready to go - the album is signed sealed and delivered mixed and mastered.  Then a release date announcement.  After that the record company, having a major investment in the balance - will, I believe, do everything right as far as promotion, adverstising, marketing, etc.   (btw: how awesome were the tour radio adverts!?)  The band likewise, I believe, will do the right thing. Its their baby - I'm sure they will be proud to make the proper announcements, appearances, etc.

A lot of the pre Contraband promotion was about the evolving of VR.
We have already seen this with Guns N' Roses.  (thats what the past few years have been - including the one-off shows and the tour).

Well, VR have created a street credible buzz, Axl had a circus that drew a crowd, but eroded the base.  VR's base is growing, due to the wise decisions they made.  Moreover, RCA did a great job of not over-promoting this product, but promoting in the right places at the right time.  VR is going to debut at #1, and up to this point, it seems they could be leading a revival of modern rock.

 ::)Yeah, right.  They FUCKING SUCK!  They're not going to lead shit.  The material isn't going to inspire anyone.


They'll go number one, and then the album will drop off the charts immediately.  There is no long term value for that material.  It is all sold on hype so far.  

Yeah ur tellin me : ok:

But they didn't get back. Every 'band'member is on holiday since then. This band does not exist. I wonder when they've met all together or only with Axl, 'cause it's been months they had a conversation with Axl - on telephone.

IF a tree drops in the forrest and you do not see it, does that mean there really is not a tree?

People asked for proof that axl had 3 albums of material, a person that is not axl, and you got it, so stop claiming there are not 3 albums.  Were you in the studio to prove axl wrong? No you were not, but May was, so he knows better that you or who ever else doubts it.

You are kidding me right?
I really hope you dont believe that.

You saying that they didn't get back is pure speculation on your part.  So is saying that every band member has been on holiday since then.

Just because there is a comment from a band member about last speaking to axl on the phone a few months ago does not prove either of your statements.

Just because the band members have done/been doing solo work doesn't prove your statement.

You said they didn't get back.  I say they did.  Don't argue things that can't be proved right now.

You say this band does not exist.  I say it does.   I can't offer proof because they haven't released an album yet and the are not currently touring.  Yet, that doesn't prove they don't exist.  (Ever heard the saying about trying to prove a negative?)  Again, lets not argue what can't be proved.  

Anyway, I thought this thread was about thoughts and ideas about GN'R promoting thier album when its ready?  

If you wanna talk explore your theory about the band not existing you should start another thread.  

Crap, crap, and more crap!

Before I start on the original points...

What is so difficult to comprehend about the idea that Axl has a lot of material (enough for three albums) and plans to eventually release at least three albums? If he said that, why is it so difficult to believe? It's pretty simple and even obvious isn't it? Dumbest plan ever? To difficult to comprehend? How can anyone making these comments not be classed as a total idiot?

VR leading a revolution? What planet are you living on. Why do people here live in fantasy land? The album sounds great and I have every respect for them, but there ain't gonna be no 'revolution'. On top of that Minneapolisnewsman, you state:

"VR have created a street credible buzz, Axl had a circus that drew a crowd, but eroded the base.  VR's base is growing, due to the wise decisions they made.  Moreover, RCA did a great job of not over-promoting this product, but promoting in the right places at the right time."

How the fuck do you know? We've got no sales figures yet, no evidence of anything your saying. I'm glad we can congratulate RCA on a great job despite not producing any results yet. I think I might aswell congratulate Axl on the great album that is Chinese Democracy  ::)

And the rest.....


Are GNR trying to promote anything yet? No. Why would they want to promote OMG? Secret gigs to prime the band? Well GNR did start with a small venue in LV. Also, what do you mean 'prime them for a return'?


Riiiighttt...... so you've been with the band have you? Seeing how they haven't spent any time together. The whole of CD has been written individually? GNR haven't rehearsed together? It's funny how people here go mad when someone believes in something Axl said, but people just accept as fact any old crap that is just random guesswork. If they wrote all the songs together musically and laid it down so they all liked it and even contributed some lyrics maybe and then Axl has to just record the vocals, why the fuck would the band need to be there for that?


When GNR start doing things on tour or when recording just to be financially sound and just to sell a product, then I will give up. I hope VR didn't do these shows for that reason. As for headlines, I think the return of GNR spoke for itself.


Again, if that's what you are as a band, fine. You shouldn't do things to get better reviews and impress the press. The new GNR are not the old GNR, imagine robin, buckethead, and Axl doing that! It wouldn't work unless your expecting them all to dress in leather and act like rockers as well. That would be selling out!


Same again. New GNR are not from the eighties. They are trying to do something new.


Anybody can see that this VR record was laid down a little too quickly, and the full potential of the band hasn't been fulfilled. They can do even better if they take a little more time


You've got to be joking..... right?

Your whole thread talks about VR's great tactics. Firstly these are all the obvious things a band like VR should do, they haven't done anything extraordinary. Secondly, you CAN NOT EVER compare the processes for promoting VR and their album with the things GNR should do before releasing CD. Different band, different look, different music.

P.S. VR and juggernaut should not be used in the same sentence.

Phew, got that out my system  :)

@#$%Muther

I agree with SLCPUNK and Old Man.  If he had 3 albums of material 2 years ago how come we haven't heard any of it? (aside from the 5-6 songs) I'll believe in CD when I hear it. Not before, how many release days has it had? How many cancellations. Come on people. You can't honestly take anything said about this 'Chinese Democracy' album to heart. There's been so much said about it but with no action.  Maybe Axl called it "Chinese Democracy" because like actual Chinese democracy, IT AIN'T EVER GONNA HAPPEN!  That would be like his sense of humor wouldn't it?! Well? Wouldn't it? (sorry if this thought has been voice before.)

I was really excited after hearing "Slither," that was a refreshing track that was as good as anything Old Guns had put together (without trying to be GN'R). Unfortunately, that is the only song on the record that will have any success. They have put up the full record on several internet sites (Rolling Stone was where I heard it) and it sucks. Nothing but cliches and groans on top of Slash's guitars. "Set Me Free" is probably the second best song. It's obvious they just put a lot of effort into one big track as a selling point, and crammed together the rest. VR might be better off not releasing anymore singles, because if songs like "Sucker Train Blues" and "Fall to Pieces" start showing up on the radio, the record will be immediately pigeon-holed into a one hit wonder category. If "Slither" is the only thing the general public has heard, people will like that song and be tricked into buying the record thinking there is more where that came from.

The Michael Jackson stuff was a joke, Snakepit was horrible, VR was a failure but a much more valiant effort. Maybe next time Slash hits it because he's been getting better with each try. Unfortunately, Velvet Revolver is not it.

Here is something GN'R can learn from VR....

once the album is out - its time for the bandmembers to stop telling people how good it is   :rofl:  
time to let the music speak for itself
sure do your videos and release your radio singles...
do your interviews and appearances / photo ops etc.
do your shows...
but let the MUSIC speak for itself
its kind of embarrassing (or you would think it would be for them) to keep talking  themseves about how dangerous and sexy the album and the band is.  If its dangerous and sexy you don't have to tell people that!  They'll figure it out!

Any more advice?  Oh, tell Chris Pittman if he bangs 18 yr old chicks everyday just because he is in Guns N' Roses - to keep it to himself.  And uh... tell Brain that if he ever shoved a crack pipe up his ass - we dont' wanna know about it.   ;D

The music will speak for itself people.

 :peace:

I understand your point. But just because we haven't heard them yet does not make the idea of having that much material, or planning to release three albums ridiculous/fantasy/unbelievable. It's perfectly reasonable. There has been a lot of crap talked about it, but this seems a lot more reasonable and normal than some things that have been said.

@#$%Muther

Thats ludicrous.  Of course they didn't go for a fucking concert tour (I assume you mean arenas and stadiums).  For fuck sake... even Axl's band had problems doing that (as overall sales figures will blatantly prove).

VR needs to settle itself and make sure it can do that kind of shit before entering into a foolish business decision like that.  However, I am certain that they will be doing arenas next year.

No release days and therefore no cancellations.

Get your facts straight. Chinese Democracy have never had an official release date. If you want to discuss then at least get the history right. Go check with Sanctuary or any other possible label. There has never been a release date. VR had a release date and it got pushed back and then released. See? Easy?

I don't know about perfectly reasonable. or even reasonable.  I would say maybe possible. But with so many let downs on speculated release dates, I'm just not optimistic anymore. If it comes out perfect! if not I'll listen to something else.

On that note, VR, imo, have some pretty good tracks, and I am, overall, happy with the album, I don't think it sucks ass as some people suggest. It's definately not Guns just as it's definately STP (I love both bands, btw) it's Velvet Revolver! They are a new band with a new sound and IMO shouldn't be judged against their respective former bands, it's not fair. You can definately hear some STP at times as well as some G'n'R type music at times. But if you are expecting STP "Core" or G'n'R "AFD" you are gonna be let down. Besides thats pretty high standards. Don't you think?

Great idea, I will start a new topic. But Tommy said that after the 2002 'tour' the band went to holiday. Later he said that they'll be back together rehearsing from 2003 September. It didn't happen, Tommy has been doing his solo album since then. Maybe they have a new bass player?

Richard Fortus said that he recorded his parts 2 years ago, then went to the tour, and nothing.

Robin Finck's on holiday, working on his new look.

Aunt Ger can surely tell if Dizzy did any work with the other guys in the last 18 months.

Buckethead left.

That's it.

 :hihi:


 :beer:
I know we're not supposed to post just to say "I agree"...
but what you said is so true I had to applaud it.



once again - well said : ok:
making sure to play small venues just so you can appear like a bigger fish in a small pond?

and rehearsing to the point that when you go into the studio its rote?  Musicians creativity should not be limited to this.  What is being suggested - that in the studio there should be a sign "Play it like we rehearsed it.  No fucking around.  We are on the clock.  No creativity allowed here."  

Not for nothing... but when is (having) less money (to spend) ever better than (having) more money?
 


I agree.  GN'R should do whatever the fuck they want.
Axl Rose hasn't shown his face on TV in the states but 2 times in the past decade yet he is still recognized as one of rock's biggest stars.  

Sometimes the best appetizer/foreplay is a taste/tease.

Psst...  there are things that go on that we don't know about.
Believe it or not - its not like everything that goes on is posted abot on the internet.  There are people who know things who don't talk about it on the internet.  :o

shocking, isn't it!  ;D

Does Axl even have a PR man?? I dont think he does.. He NEEDS a PR man if he ever wants his new band to anything more than an Underground band.... a PR Team and an albume would help him out alot...

Get him interviews, TV spots, Soundtracks... then he can talk about Slash anyway he wants... who cares how he speaks about Slash anyways.... its his lack of the basic PR that has has pissed his fans off not his speaking about slash....



this is why he needs a PR man.... he has nothing to offer fans except broken dates and broken promises......



I disagree with this.... The tour would have ended up a success if they had played bigger citys to begin with.. but when you play Fargo, Nampa, Colombus, Cleveland but never play L.A, Miami, Texas, Phoenix, Denver or any other major towns of course the tour income is less playing in Fucking Nampa or Fargo than Los Angeles or Denver...



They played 5 of those citys and 3 more were already scheduled....


HE NEEDS:
an album,
a PR plan,
a webpage
a guitar player
and to start giving a fuck about his fan base.....


He has none of those... and untill he does he will continue to fail....

He has Guitar players. He needs to release a Fucking Album, First and foremost. the rest will fall into place afterwards.

obviously not enough to take the stage at RIR.... so he needs a fucking guitar player..


you need a guitar player to release an album... if buckethead left on the terms that Axl said he did .. dont think for one second the red head will keep his parts on CD(his baby) and let him get any royaltys from it... no way... he will find a new guitar player and re record the parts.....

Good Point :)


It's been 11 years already, what's another 2 right? :rofl:

The only thing GNR has to do is release the album. Thats it. Whne that happens and the music is good evrything will be fine. You wont have to worry.

Till then if it makes you cream your pants when you think that they have no material and the music side of the project is a mess...good for you...but its not the case....Along with Brian May, "who said if GNr are trying to make a perfect album they arent too far off", there have been a few others who have said they have 3 albums worth of material.

Again if you doubt we will ever see that material is one thing...and thats fine, its fair but why be an ass and say it doesnt exist when it really does. Why the fuck would the band and peopel lie about actual material.

Thats the problem. You all think GNr is some sort of comspiracy. Its not. Actually its pretty simple.
Ill do it slowly for you...
Band began in 98/99..began to explore sounds, record, band started to solidify...
2001...bucket came....made even more material....
2002-vmas, tour...now do we all remember that Axl interview after the vmas boys and girls? What did uncle axl say? "we will go back and do some more recording"...now what does that mean? it means they werent dont with the material yet....
3003/2004...Axl is ready to release, but gh is released...Axl is ready to release...bucket quits...hence our current delays....

Was that so hard to understand? Shit has happened along the way. Lawsuits etc. When the time is right it will be released. You can either wait or not wait. Or both. But dont be a lil pussy about it in the meantime. Especially when more than liekly your gonna be kicked right in the face by the music of the monstrosity that is known as gnr...and youll like that kick in the face....

good god i dont want to wait 2 more years.. i just want a single!! i dont even care about the album anymore... id settle for a single!!!! this is too much... but i still come to the sites everyday for an artist who hasnt done a damn thing and I never go to the sites for the bands who i enjoy and produce...

god damn i feel stupid waiting for this fucking stupid CD...

I agree with you outlawaxl. I've been doing the same thing now for a couple of years. When they went on tour in 2002. I thought, "OK here we go!" but, WRONG!!! now here we sit 2 years later and nothing. Come on AXL release a FUCKING ALBUM already. It'll all be good, buddy, just drop the damn thing. It ain't ever gonna be perfect. (But to all your fans it will be!!!)

Someone said once, "Music is never finished only abandoned" but I don't know who, sorry.

what evidence makes you believe axl was ready to release CD in 2003 or 4? I haven't seen anything that points to that- in fact we've been fed the same bullshit for a couple years about how its always right around the corner by the bandmembers ("by june" "by late summer" "by fall" "by early next year" etc etc etc), and then axl says its not even coming out "soon"...

plus, why does axl always need all these excuses... i mean, come on, scott weiland was in fucking lockdown facilities, yet VR were able to put out a solid record in just a couple months. Wanna know why? Cuz they are a real band and not a one-man-show pretending to be a band.

What does GH have to do with CD? Considering Axl didn't even get to pick the track listing or write anything for it.  Just Axl's mad so everyone has to wait again. Whatever. Release an album already!!

It kind of gets lost in the shuffle with all the BS this band has been through the last several years, but I continue to feel that the biggest "misstep" the band and their management team made was failing to capture the momentum following their TRIUMPHANT Rock in Rio III performance in Jan. 2001. They had received mostly glowing reviews for their New Year's Vegas show (including from the NY Times) and then Kurt Loder (MTV) lavished them with the following praise for their Rio performance:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1437951/20010115/story.jhtml

The stage was perfectly set for Guns to make a HUGE return and they had the credible mass media support without even launching the sort of professional PR campaign many of you are suggesting. The legacy and appeal of the Axl Rose/Guns N' Roses story was alive and well. BUT, if you recall, due to Buckethead's "potentially life-threatening illness", Guns had to cancel their entire European Summer '01 tour, which would have given them the opportunity to solidify their reputation as a tremendous live act capable of rocking hundreds of thousands and would have confirmed the fact that they were coming back FOR REAL. Instead, the cancelation (even if legitimate) brought back heaps of negative memories of Axl Rose, GN'R and their "unreliability" as a live act. Unfortunate but true.

Of course, Buckethead may very well have been sick, though after reading Axl's latest press release re: Bucket I have my doubts, in which case it's nothing more than a bit of bad luck. And to be fair 9/11 happened a few months later which effectively made rock concerts and rock "comebacks" etc. irrelevant for several months anyway. But STILL- something, like putting Madagascar and The Blues out as singles should have been done to keep the wheels churning from '01. Instead, one is left with the impression that GN'R has been chasing its shadow the last few years making vain attempts trying to recapture/recreate the actual momentum they truely had in January 2001.

That to me is the great mystery. What actually happened in the Spring/Summer 2001 that led everyone involved with the band to apparently take their eye off the ball when they truely had a good thing going.???

Vr is a completely different band. Im glad they have made an album in a few months...thats why tehir album sounds rushed and doesnt click for the most part...
Im not saying you have to take 5 years to release an album but you also dont have to do it in 2 months. Theres no right or wrong way. What makes it right or wrong is when it finally gets released and the music you make is good....

Keep telling yourself that

I disagree. Look what happened with OMG. There was no video, no promotion, no album follow up.

Plus the blues and Maddy arent singles. They are songs that help make an album great. They are the role players. So if GNr were to release them what would be the point? Jyst to release soemthing?

You have to understand GNr are going to go and do things properly when the time comes. Their singles will have videos and then be followed by an album. Much like Vr and any band does whren releasing an album.

Buckethead came in and they made even more material....

There are a lot of new songs that were just done in the last year that we feel that ?okay, well that bumps a lot of stuff off the previous list but it's time to stop that now and wrap up the baby. -Axl 2002

it was time to stop that in 2002!!! 2004 is half OVER!!! there will be nothing in 2004 either..... NOTHING.. Just like those silly questions everyone sent to him...you get nothing from this man but empty promises and cancelled concert dates....

but yet i still come to the site everyday and never visit the sites of bands that are out there everyday ...

like i said earlier i feel like a fucking fool waiting on this fucking CD...  it took YEARS, YEARS of dissapointment for me to get to this stage... and now i just think Axls a fucking cock sucker and talking shit.. hes never going to release a god damn thing...  if he wanted to release a single he could... he wanted to show up at RIR he could... but its always an excuse .. hes been given every chance by every fan and music industry, concert promoter, media...

but still nothing more today than at the Vegas show on 01/01/01..

GNR can learn NOTHING from "Velvet Revolver's juggernaut"  coz he doesnt care..

I think the main point ultimately is that Axl should not have "returned" until he knew he had a final product CD-wise to tour with. I'm sorry, I love and support Axl but he's shot himself in the foot with this whole last 3 years of stops and starts. It does not engender the confidence of the media, his bandmates, his fans, or the general public in his new album and it basically just leaves him exposed for the BASH-FEST he's been subjected to since the VMA's. It's really too bad. Rather than wasting the band's energies and in some case patience (BH) on the aborted, and ultimately grossly counter-productive '02 North American tour (even the buzz from the MSG show got trashed in less than 24 hrs.)- wouldn't his efforts have been better spent in the studio finalizing the goddamn album? Had he done that- he could today be enjoying the hero's welcome he received in 2001 with the added bonus of a completed kick ass album to back him up.

He had a strong hand to play with the media and general public and he played it WAY TOO EARLY.... way before he was ready and now he's paying the price.  :no:

:yes: well put dude....

I think only promotion Axl needs is name Guns N Roses and he has it...  :)
when CD comes out it will be nr1 everywhere even with no promotion... but he has to release it though...  ;D

In that same press release it said that aftrer the tour concludes they will go back and finish. What did Axl say after the vmas? After the tour finished they will go back and finish up the recording.....tour was supposed to end in 2003.

NO1 is sayin you have to stay

because you know that theres a good chance that this band will deliver....

Thats basically because when you read the hsit thats on the internet on a daily basis it builds up and causes that frustration, etc. Yea the band has said a few times it will be out soon or whatver...but they always say if everything goes right.
You choose to believe the lionel ritchie interviews, you choose to believe Axl goes to mental hospitals, you choose to believe all ceo's of record companies,marketing managers etc that we have here in the gnr fan community. As a result it builds up and now your fed up. Yea GNr could have kept us updated along the way but they didnt. O well. The mystique is still there.

What does releasing a single accomplish? Lets say they release a single and it does well...then what? where are the additional singles to follow, the videos, the album to go witht he momentum? Theres no point...

When GNR are ready to go ahead with this you will get GNr for the next few yrs. Relax....either wait or leave.

They dont need to learn anything because they have their own plan. The only obstacle with this band is getting their shit together and not having badluck. Im sure Axl has a lot to do with that badluck but some shit you just cant control. So when everything is set will will get gnr and the singles, videos, ALBUM,tour, interviews,magazines, website and everythign else you can think of.....one of these days soon will be the word....

well it gives the band a sense of accomplishment, they make music to share it with the world, it makes money, it pleases fans, it pleases the band, the management, the record labels.. it gets the music out there...

then they have made music, shared the music.. made some cash on the way, established an idendity as a new band and not a cover band...

you have to walk before you can run... he refuses to even fucking step...

there is no point in a single??????????????? what the fuck does that mean??

what plan is that?? you have seen this "plan?" its written somewhere?? or you just belive it exsists... they have no plan... they had a plan and its a very simple plan.. you have to record music, release music, tour, release albums,.. have a website, a fan club, upcoming dates... thats the plan... its the same plan for all bands... Axl has none of these... so he has no fucking "plan"

this is not a band... the only one who needs to get his shit together is the fucking singer.....

like releasing music? or showing up for concerts? or updating your fans? is that the shit you "just cant control"  coz it seems to me if he did these things he wouldnt have the problems that he has now....


everything was set in 2001... its not anymore....


sure it will... I think we have seen the last of Mr Rose for along time....... lets remember this post come Christmas time and 2004 will be over with nothing new either... watch..

i used to have the blind faith in Axl Rose that you have now... so i know you will disagree with everything i have posted ...

You have to be joking about releasing a single on it's own don't you? That would be a total fuck up. Establish the band, make them achieve something? From one single?  :rofl: :rofl:

You have to walk before you can run.  :rofl: So you're using that old chesnut to justify randomly releasing a single on it's own with no album to follow straight away?  ::) Could it be any more ridiculous?

As for a plan, why can't you see that a plan means releasing a single then an album then touring on it? There's nothing complicated about that, in fact isn't it what this thread was about? How GNR should follow that sort of plan?

Yes we haven't had anything, but how does that mean shit about the idea that when something does happen it will follow the usual sequence single, album, tour?

Well, just as we have faith in GNR pulling it together you seem to be putting all your faith in Axl being the problem in everything to do with the release. So how does that make you right? It seems you're guessing as much as the next person.

And what problems exactly is Axl having now because he hasn't released anything, or cancelled concerts? None. What are you talking about? The only problem they've had is Buckethead leaving and that could have been down to anything, especially seeing as he wasn't sitting around doing nothing, waiting for Axl.

@#$%Muther

how else would you release a single? thats why its called a "single" coz its on its own...

how so? I dont see how releasing a single would be a total fuck up..  a soundtrack or a single on its own.. either way its getting some music out there...

ummm no... ::) they have to release an album of course... and VR released a single and that got some music out there and got the intrest in the band started...

no im saying exactly that... you have to start with a single (walking) before you can run(releasing an album) .. This is a simple concept...
VR's album didnt follow "straight away" .. when was The Hulk released? almost one year ago.... If he cant get 12 of his 75 songs ready for release than something is wrong...

any more ridiculous than the situation already is?? no i dont think so..
no guitarist, no new music, suing your record label, and this "plan" was supposed to have started in 2001..

thats exactly what i said... he has to release something... start somewhere(single).. but he stops and starts and stops again and thats why i think he has no plan...

no there is not.. thats why im upset that he cant even follow it...

yes... and my points were, Why doesnt he?? its a simple plan that almost all bands follow... its proven, it works,.... but the fact that he cant even follow 3 steps upsets me...

?

I have faith that he could do it if he wants too... but i dont think he wants to anymore coz its such a simple 1,2,3 plan that anyone can follow it... the fact that he chooses not to release any music, tour, single or album makes me start to think that hes just talking shit... hes delivered all promises but no results...

It doesnt... how can i be right about something i know nothing about?? im only giving my opinion...

of course iam...

the record label releasing old ass material is the problem he has because he hasnt released anything....

Clear Channel will prob never sponsor a tour of North America with him is the problem he is having because of cancelled concerts..


what are you talking about? id say Record labels releasing albums against artists wishes and the biggest concert promoter in North America pulling the plug on the last and most likely any future tours are some pretty big ass problems...


sense a pattern here??

A perfect example of how the internet gets its bad name.

I'm a huge GNR fan, especially of slash and Axl. I'm a guitar player who considers slash a big influence. I've been listening to contraband non stop since tuesday. I really like the CD. HOWEVER, that being said I have to say that Contraband is not going to usher in a return to rock. There is nothing ground breaking, earth shattering or monumentally influential about any of the songs on the cd. Let's be real here, you'll never hear any of these songs played ont he radio 10 years from now. So I have to disagree with your comment minneapolis guy about how ground breaking the cd is. It's just straight ahead rock and roll. One thing that really dissapoints me about the cd is the fact that there are NO kick ass slash solos. All very generic.
That's all

The only way rock will be saved is if a new young band comes up. Thats it. The music landscape is so much different now that rock just has to take a backseat in the overall musical landscape.

Although MTV, corporations, boy bands,rap etc have pushed rock to the back of the cycle....rock has no band. ALl these up and coming bands i hear and see are flat out pussies. Nothing dangerous. Rock also has itself to blame. Its just flat out boring and predicatble.

Rock/grunge died in the mid 90's. It hasnt been back. Theres been some good bands to come along but nothin over the top that takes the whole musical landscape by storm. Its a different world.

too true... but most new bands cant capture the danger of the old rock bands... they arent dystroying TV's and Hotel Rooms and jumping into crowds coz they are dangerous.. they do it coz they saw it on TV done by the originals... GnR, Motley, Led Zep, Stones..

Sadly IMO Rock has been pushed to the edge.. as far as it can go.. Untill someone new comes along and does something new or exciting its going to stay the same "oh thats just another rock record"

Marlyn Manson was close put he was at the wrong time in music... Rock was dead when Manson said that....

Metallica tried with thier new album... I liked that album but its just all been done before...

I really belive the only one who can bring the "excitement" and "danger" you were talking about back to Rock n Roll is W. Axl Rose....

will he?? I guess thats what were all waiting to see... Try or Fail it will still be good music.. it might not set the world on fire again but it will be good music....

IT's funny we are all sitting on our asses telling people who have lived the rock life and have been on top of the world.

People telling Axl Rose how he should go about his life and business - nah nah doesn't work like that.  If you want that, follow Pop Idol and that shit cause Axl Rose is his own artist.

I really don't see him approaching the promotion of CD too differently than the way he has with the past albums.  You'll see a couple of big interviews but i don't think he is going to bust a gut doing all the PR - he doesn't trust the media and GNR never bothered with tv appearences ect  

And those criticising VR for being 40 yr olds singing about sex drugs and rockn' roll embarressing ?? What the fuck have you done with your life to fucking judge people living and loving their jobs that they are too old??

They are not sitting in front of a comp sticking their noses into other peoples lives - you are, we are.  These guys are not actors when you bought Appetite - that was the real deal. So to say you cant be into all that at 40 is fucking stupid.  (chills out lol)  no but that pissed me off.  They have all nearly died for their passion you know? so to look on it as some kind of marketing thing is just bull.

Let Axl and VR both do what their into -  let them get on with it. They have all been there and done it, we are just mere on-lookers.  Let them grow  if you can do better then let's hear it.  That's the only way rock will become at the fore front - more perminantly again - is if you go and support local bands, actually buy their albums and go to gigs, not just downloading everything - new bands need sales.  Record companies don't let bands grow anymore, it's all down to cold cash.

And as with all music you have to listen with an open mind otherwise nothing will ever be as good as the stuff u have listened to for years- simple.
 

too true... but most new bands cant capture the danger of the old rock bands... they arent dystroying TV's and Hotel Rooms and jumping into crowds coz they are dangerous.. they do it coz they saw it on TV done by the originals... GnR, Motley, Led Zep, Stones..

Sadly IMO Rock has been pushed to the edge.. as far as it can go.. Untill someone new comes along and does something new or exciting its going to stay the same "oh thats just another rock record"

Marlyn Manson was close put he was at the wrong time in music... Rock was dead when Manson said that....

Metallica tried with thier new album... I liked that album but its just all been done before...

I really belive the only one who can bring the "excitement" and "danger" you were talking about back to Rock n Roll is W. Axl Rose....

will he?? I guess thats what were all waiting to see... Try or Fail it will still be good music.. it might not set the world on fire again but it will be good music....

I would agree with most of what you said there particuarly with the Marilyn Manson and Metallica points.  Metallica - that was a strange one because whether people claim to like it or not it is a brutal fucking album.  

The problem is nothing is perfect enough anymore the internet has turned music fans into geeks lol and everyones a critic.  You have people moaning about production - i'd like to hear what they have worked on themselves but from that you have people planning out a bands PR schedule too lol  This is not The Sims you know? lol

Marilyn Manson was really - i think, the last big rock star and even he pales in comparison with the GNR guys. His master piece imo was Mechanical Animals - since then he has seemingly tried to go back wards rather then keeping himself fresh and new.  And has lost alot of his original fan base from what i have seen.  

  At the moment you have "metal bands" dressed like boybands and  jumping aroung on stage but looking fake and goofy on it you know?  

If you look at the gothy bands like HIM and the new ones Rasmus, they look like copies of what has been and haven't got the material that makes the artists they are copying great.  With most bands these days, they either have the look but not the music or they have some great songs but their albums full of fillers.