Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I am a big Gnr + Slash fan and i had high expectations from Contaband as it was made by 3 persons who made UYIs.

For me it is just a good album but it is not great and it doesn't come close to AFD and UYIs.

The main thing that i really dislike about VR is not scot weiland, is not the shitty production,  is not the few buried slash solos nor the
lyrics.

The Worst thing that pisses me off is the Comments of VR and especially Slash,Duff,Matt.

1st slash claims that It is the best record he made. Thats obviously Bullshit cause in this album he is playing less solos and lead guitar than his previous records. His solos are not as emotional and imaginative as in the Past (except YGNR + FTP). Also I cannot find riffs in the album that really stick in your mind except maybe superhuman + slither.

2nd Slash claims that He cannot compare Vr to anything. I mean this is Bullshit again. How can he feel that Vr are so great for him and they only have one album that is not released and they are together for very little time. Even Scott was in the rehab for the most Part. How Can he Even try to compare VR with GNR which was his whole life and artistic career  and made him Who he Is

3rd espacially Matt claims that Scott is the Best frontman and i think Duff and slash agreed on that. I mean Axl Is far superior to Scott.
1st scott is influenced a lot in his attitude by axl. then Axl has more trademark Voice than scot and His Lyrics are Far better. Just Listen At the monsters Axl has composed.

4rth and most important. They all Fucking claim That They are Here to bring Back Rock And Roll. In all the concerts Scott claims that they are the real rock And Roll. That is Bulshitt. You Cannot claim Things Like that. Things Like That are Recognised By the Audience And People. They are the Real test and History proves how significant each Band Was. When you make stements like that even before releasing the album the Biggest Chances are that you will look like Fool afterwards. How Can This Been The Return Of Rock and Roll when Your Frontman is A Clear Alternative Frontman. Second When you choose as a producer Someone who produces albums that are not even close to Rock and Roll. 3rd How Can they save rock and Roll when  they are doing  everything the music indistry implies and they do exactly the same thing every band does to release an album and Tour nowadays.

To me Slash, duff, Matt are not as true as they claim anymore and they are trying to be succesfull by not really following their Hearts.
They Could have Pick another singer rather than scott. They choose him cause he was succesfull so they could hit the big maney for sure.

My predictions are that we won't see another VR Album.

I really wasn't going to answer this thread because there are so fucking many of them and hardly any say anything original or intelligent, but you do make some good points.
I pretty much agree with everything you said (especially Scott not being as great as Axl-- even though i think Scott rocks and am glad he is the one fronting this band) and this is why none of it bothers me: it's good enough. it's going to be better than anything else out there. And on your point about them being too pushy about how badass they are, how they are going to bring rock and roll back: yeah, i totally see what you are saying, but you know what? those guys are more badass than these little boy rock bands (and i am not talking about boy bands, i am talking about all the music out today) and they have cred to spare, so when they are posturing a bit and talking shit a bit, i remember how much more hardcore these guys are and it's okay.
 :)

Time to rip everything you said apart.

1. It really pisses me off when people say there won't be another VR record. They signed a 3 record deal.
2. Maybe Slash feels different about this work than any of his work before
3. He can't compare it to anything in the sence that he doesn't think it sounds like anything else.
4. Not another Axl vs Scott debate. Slash, Duff and Matt chose Scott. They chose who they wanted. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks they should do, they are grown men who can make there own choices.
5. I don't knowwhat album you listened to, but this is rock n roll. Alternative is a relative term. If they didn't have scott you wouldn't be using that term.

Why do you think they chose Scott? I think GNROSAS has a point, they knew they might go places that they couldn't if they had somebody else singing for them.

Is anybody ready to admit the possibility that it might be the case or will it just be "no, they chose him just because of his talents, you're just a jealous Axl fan!"?



/jarmo

 :confused:

We've already admitted this possibility several times in different threads.

We even discussed how Weiland is the key to KROQ and other modern rock outlets.  And I believe we did it without bashing Axl.

It is entirely possible to be a VR fan and support them, but also discuss things like this.  

Of course he is going to say that, as every artist is going to say their latest is their greatest. Maybe he feels different about this than any of his other work, because they worked together to complete this, and are proud of it. It wasn't that easy with Guns N' Roses. What do you expect him to say? That it's a fucking piece of shit of a record? Of course he is going to say it's his greatest.


Who are you to say that what he says is bullshit? So you're saying that he is lying, yet you don't know how he feels. You didn't experience the making of the band or album for him, so don't try to tear everything he says apart and try to prove it wrong. Leave him alone, because you obviously don't know what you're talking about. Is he not allowed to be proud of his new band? He was talking the process of touring and shit, and about the relationships between them. Not the music itself.


Again, most likely because they're working together and have less problems and complications. They don't have to deal with Axl's ego anymore. I don't think they enjoyed kissing his ass all that time, while they claim to enjoy being in this band with Scott. They didn't say that he is a better singer or songwriter than Axl, they don't deny Axl's talent at all and even defend him (at least publicly). When they said that they were most likely referring to the relationship between them.


What is it if it's not rock and roll? I believe they have brought back rock music, as it is more rock and roll than I have seen on MTV in all my life. Well, as far as I can remember. I see them doing just that, what they are intending to do. You can't claim things like that? They can claim whatever they want, because they are a "dangerous" band, you see. :rofl: (The only thing I find ridiculous are the "we are a dangerous band" statements from Duff.)


How do you know? Did they tell you so? That could be true, or not. I don't know their reasons for choosing Scott, and neither do you so you can't say that as a fact. They say they wanted him in the band before STP even broke up because he was friends with the members already. And as Jizzo said, and I was going to say, they chose who they wanted - who cares why? They're happy with their choice, and they are doing well. That's all that matters - not anything that you have to say.  


Since it is you that holds the crystal ball, can you tell me a few other like, when is Chinese Democracy going to be released? I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to know. And while you're at it, there are other things I'd like to clear up... but nevermind. They have a three album deal. Also, you said this is just another Snakepit, right, well even they released two albums. I honestly think we'll see something else from them because by what they say, they seem to have their hearts set on this band, regardless of what you may think, because you don't know.

So, my point is, you have no clue, so you aren't one to say anything, especially calling them liars. So it's your post that's "bullshit."

Ya, I hate it when musicians say things like that and act like prostitutes. They everything that is over the top about their current work...sell themselves using bold words. The more I hear from those 3...the more credibility they lose.

Best album he's done? Is there anyone who actually thinks this is the truth? Slash must of practiced that one a couple of time in front of the mirror to make sure he keeps a straight face.


Not every artist...some people are honest. Besides, he can say its a good CD...he doesnt need to flat out lie and make a point of saying its the best because, we all know this is not true...just a careless statement to make people excited about Contraband.  

You have a point there. Most artists will say it's their best work (they probably feel like that - as Slash stated after UYI that people who thought AFD is better are dumb - or something close to that). But deep inside he might know it's not wrong. Anyway, there's no reason for people here to start debating what Slash is and what he isn't thinking. What I think GNROSAS was saying was that what Slash say isn't true. And everyone here will (well, maybe one or two wont) agree that Contraband isn't the best album Slash has participated in making.


Again, Slash claim he can't and it's pretty fair to say that what Slash say there is wrong - as long as he compares it in quality. Socially it might be true. But why do Slash need to state these things? Is he just doing it to tell Axl that "I'm better now, I didn't like working with you". When people say those things, I rather think they mean the opposite.


If they really were here to bring back rock they wouldn't have to state it. This band wont change things and if they do it's because very few rock bands comes up these days.


Again, this isn't stated as a fact, it's a claim. And it sure is a possibility. They probably have their reasons - but the documentary, TV commercials - these guys really wanna sell!

fuck all you loosers who have nothin better to do than talk shit about VR! Maybe Contraband is not greatest rock album off all times, but it's the best nowadays for sure...

Yeah, sorry about that.

I was just expecting something like one of the replies that can be found further down this page.....



Got anything to add to the discussion?




/jarmo

Worst thing about VR, well that's pretty obvious, they don't have Axl  ;)

Seriously, I like the band. Excited to hear the album and all, but I didn't like the fact that they cancelled their European spring tour due to Scott's court case and rehab lock-down. Now if they come to Europe over the summer, they wil play festivals and I'm not too crazy about festivals. I rather see them in club.

I don't like the Velvet Revolver name either. Even "The Project "was much better.

I'm yet to be "touched" by VR music, I haven't heard any of their songs yet, with the exception of YGNR, Slither and Set me free...I'll comment on that next week. I liked YGNR when I fiest heard it, not too crazy about the other two though.







 

Aye, Slash, Duff and Matt helped make the UYI albums, but who did most of the songwriting?

Axl n' Izzy.  :beer:

My opinion is that Axl and Slash wrote the BEST uyi-songs. Seems that Slash needs Mike Clink and/or Axl to get the best out of him. I still like Contraband, it's 4 out 5.

Imfuckingcrazy i see your point and in no way i have a crystal Ball.
I cannot be really certain about what these people really feel and cannot say that I am 100% right. To me their actions lead me to believe what i wrote but definately i am not their mind. I was so critical about the situation because their actions and comments sound and look Hypocritical to me.

Ive been saying this since day 1 of VR

That would make about 95% of his fans dumb, but it's HIS OWN OPINION whether or not he thinks UYI is better (though I wonder if he would say that now...? Maybe)! You're right, Surge. Of course he is going to say this album is his best, because of course he's going to be proud of this band, and their latest album. Isn't he entitled to his own opinion, as a human being? Just because you don't agree with what he says - and I think most of us can agree that Contraband isn't his best, including myself - it doesn't mean that he's wrong, that he is lying and what he says is "bullshit." And as conny said - why should you buy it if it wasn't better than any previous stuff?



Yeah. As I said, you don't have to agree with everything he says - you can hate the album for all I give a shit, but just because his opinion doesn't match yours, doesn't mean that he's a liar.


You're right... and I think that is why, because there are very few rock bands around. To me their music is more real than anything out there today. Are you saying that their music is no different than the other "rock" bands out there? I'm not saying that it's smart to make such claims though. I think they are just reassuring us that that's what they're here to do. But yeah, I suppose that's for the people to decide, because if they don't live up to that, and the "dangerous" claims, they are just going to end up looking like fools. I think they should earn that title by letting the music do the talking. I find some of their statements to be very... child like. Maybe that's because Axl did the talking for the band when they were in Guns N' Roses, so they really have no fucking clue now that they have their own band? Because they say a lot of childish things, and that's the only excuse I can come up with for it!
???
???
???
I'm with you there. I've kind of gotten used to it, but that's sad they couldn't come up with a better name and had to rip it off of Guns N' Roses. It's too similar. Though, "The Project" is okay, I don't like it that much either. Sometimes I think it might be cool. But I definitely would have rather they named it that if for no other reason than the fact that Velvet Revolver is the same as Guns N' Roses. Another thing is "Velvet Revolver" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue - too many v's I guess.

So you're not going to allow yourself to enjoy their music because you disagree with their comments?

Yeah I think their whole "search for a lead singer" was alot like Limp Biskit's "Search for a lead guitarist" They get alot of free plublicity from TV, RADIO and MAGAZINES hypining the band, when all along they have someone in mind. Listen to Slash or Duff, They knew the second they talked to Scott he was the man they wanted.

Why take a chance on a new singer and sell about as many records as a new snakepit album, when they can pick Weiland and be considered a supergroup. I love VR, but Scott was picked for a reason... TO SELL

If you seen any STP videos or concerts, you could tell why VR decided to pick Scott to front the band. When they say there bringing back rock and roll.. im pretty sure they meant playing live concerts.   Just check out the stp multimedia page. Scott pretty much blows away other lead singers when live.

Do you think its really that cut-and-dry?  Thats such a simple-minded assumption.

They chose Scott Weiland because he was the best guy for the job, on all fronts.  No question, his history and what he can bring to the band "business-wise" were taken into account.  But I believe what he brings musically was just as important a factor.  

Thank you Booker for not understanding my post and making "simple-minded" assumptions about it.

I didn't say that was the ONLY reason, as you pointed out, there probably were more reasons.

They didn't choose a guy like Sebastian Back because they would've sounded like Skid Row. That kind of music doesn't get played on modern rock radio stations does it? Instead they got Scott and where is VR played?

As far as I remember, they didn't say anything about not choosing Bach (or anybody else) because they sucked. Bach was just "too Skid Row".



/jarmo

Bach obviously doesn't suck. He has a cool voice and he does it great. But yeah. When picking Weiland they got a guy with a more modern sound - which is something they obviously wanted. It just seems like Weiland has gotten a way too big part of this thing. But they didn't want to release an 80s record. Anyway, why couldn't they have done that with Bach and Izzy in instead? Or taken it further back than GnR to some even more Stones inspired rock mixed with some modern music? With a good producer that could've happened. Did they just not do it due to their incapability to actually sound fresh and new on their own?

Contraband is an OK album - none of the songs are bad, but then again none really really stand out.  It's all solid but I doubt that I'll be listening to it much by fall.  Having found mp3s of it I must say the production and mastering were horrible (though I hope that whoever made mp3s screwed up the quality).  Again, record co.'s think that 'louder is better', and thus they kill any true dynamic range.  Furthermore, there isn't much diversity on this record in terms of length, lyrics, instrumentation/orchestration.  However, it is better than most albums out there these days (isn't saying much).

BTW "Fall to Pieces" sounds like "Back and Forth Again" from Snakepit 1.0, "You Got No Right" sounds like STP's "Sour Girl", and "Loving the Alien" sounds like Pink Floyd though it's the best of the three ballads.

"Do It for the Kids" is the most new sounding and interesting song they've attempted.  Other than that it's a mix of Snakepit, Duff's solo stuff, and STP.

And you're right - S. Weiland was chosen because of his new rock alternative scene with STP.

Exactly.  

Scott is famous.  Scott has a big fan base.  Having a well known dude with a fan base=more support from the record company and more records sold.  If they had chose an unknown, then VR would have Snakepit like success.  Nothing more.

Do I think the boys honestly believe Scott was the best frontman?  Absolutely not.  I'm sure out of all the people they auditioned, they came across some star like unknown's.  There definitly had to be people better than Scott.  However, if they chose an unknown singer, they wouldn't have gotten all the press and success they're having now.  That's the truth.

Another benefit of having someone already established is that the band becomes more equal.  All those guys are already rich and have experienced it all.  A new guy in that situation might not function well.  

If they wanted that they would not have had dave in the band either!
and scott isn't all that well known...im pretty sure that slash has a bigger fanbase.
if they really eanted to go for a celbrity lead singer they would have got someone more in touch with the youth like marilyn manson or kid rock or someone
if you look at the live performance's , you can make out scott is exuberant and enthusiastic bout this band.....and they do share some sort of chemistry

I was thinking about that too when I listened to it, but couldn't figure out what it sounded like.....

So it was a Snakepit track.



/jarmo

WTF are you talking about?... and Like a Stone sounds like Black Hole Sun.....  ::)

Anyways, I think there was some truth to the bands comments about Scott walking in on his audition with confidence.  Any unknowns that came in would probably be in awe of playing a song with Slash and the other gunners, and any confidence would be a forced "Look I can handle this position" shtick.  Scott's pretty famous and wouldn't be intimidated at all by playing with those guys.  Neither would a Sebastian Bach, but they wouldn't have a good sound.

The 2nd verse of YGNR...

"Funny right here I find myself
Inside a paper cup
Without a warning or a reason it's a treason
With no answer"

...sounds very similar to verses in Sour Girl (both vocally and instrumentally).  But like I said it's still good.

There are some solos that just click in my head and remind me of some Snakepit ones (esp. Snakepit 2.0).

 :confused:

You might want to elaborate on that one...

Slash, Duff & Scott physically CANNOT AFFORD to be 'dangerous' individuals any more. The consequences would be catastrophic for their lives.

Matt is in his mid 40's, and Dave looks timid. I very much doubt trashing hotel rooms will be on the cards.

So how the fuck are they a 'dangerous' band??

Leave the new guys to be dangerous bands. And if they don't want to, fine. Sit back and laugh at how badass you were and how much of a pussy they are!

On with the rock, out with the talk. It's one thing that IS KILLING ROCK MUSIC.

how about, the guys thought Scott was best for the band and his "cred" (if you want to call it that) was an extra incentive.

I think they chose Scott because he is a great performer and is one of the few guys left who has a true rock star persona.  Not to mention that he is a good singer and wirtes good ocasionally great lyrics/melodies.  As far as YGNR sounding like Sour Girl, that's just retarded.  They are still dangerous because even though are supposedly sober right now, you never know what will happen with them which adds a level of excitment, something you ain't gonna find with Hoobastank.  And link old GNR, they do and say what the want whether other people like it or not.

That's something that Slash actually said recently I think about Snakepit 2.0... He said something along the lines of him never really gettting it to gel properly because he was the only one of the band who had been there, done that sorta thing. The rest of them were virtual unknowns, and probably awestruck simply at the notion of sharing a stage with Slash, opening for AC/DC etc.

Everyone has to be on the same page for the thing to work I think.

worst thing about them is scott weiland. next the music.

Hmm... somehow I knew I was gonna get slammed about Sour Girl but whatever.  To me the Scott's chorus melody of that song is very similar to the vocal melody of the 2nd verse in YGNR.  If you don't think so that's fine, but when I'm listening to it I'm simply reminded of Sour Girl.   The rhythm and tempo, and that clean guitar sound are also similar, but enough... They are both good songs!

And it's true - there's nothing "dangerous" about this album or group, and while they will have some success, I highly doubt that GN'R-type rock (solos and all) will be mainstream again this or next year.

I just hope they don't release Fall to Pieces as the 2nd single - it would put them right back into the 80's in the eyes of the media (due mainly to the cheesy lyrics).  YGNR or LtA(S) are, and would do, much better, if in fact they want a ballad for the next single.

So what?  Every musician enters the studio with the intent of making the best record they can possibly make, and Slash has made something he's really proud of.  Just because you don't like it doesn't mean Slash is insincere when he says it's his best effort.


Okay you just contradicted yourself.  On one hand, you say it's bullshit that Slash can't compare VR to anything, then you turn around and say that there's no way he could compare it to GNR.  So which is it, Mr. Wishy Washy?


Being a great frontman isn't just about being a great singer.  Scott is obviously a better frontman to work with, and that is important for a band.  



Why the hell not?  He listens to the same music the fans will hear.  Is he not entitled to his opinion of their music?  Is he not entitled to be confident about the effect he wants their music to have?  They are the most real Rock n Roll music I've heard in years.

Basically all your statements questioning their sincerity are based on your opinions of GNR music, which is irrelevant in relation to VR.

They said that right now Weiland is the best frontman out there.  I agree.  You dont - thats your opinion.  

They like working with Scott. If you saw them at the smashbox or even the slither shoot you could see the chemistry between them.

I love Axl but these guys are probably glad they have found someone with talent and who wants to work at the same pace as they do.  

And to even comment on the dangerous band thing - fuck man, you have obviously only got into GNR in the last 5 minutes, otherwise you would know they have done more than their fair share of excess!  A bottle of Jack a day(and god knows what else)  is brutal.

They physically cannot live like that anymore, they have responsibilities to their families now.  Does that take away  from their ability to make great rock n roll? Of course not they may be older now, but they sound fresh and energised.  To set up a band and get an album out within a year  - not many do that.

It would be superb to see Axl work at that pace.  Too much time has gone already.

From day 1 of "The Project" i wanted them to get either: Scott Weiland or Mike Patton.  So it was superb to see it come to life.  They look, sound and feel exciting.

The main reason they got scott is to sell albums.
They know with scott it would appeal to a lot more people than if they would have gotten Bach. If they got Bach then they would have been looked upon as a hair metal retred band and modern rock stations would not touch them.
So event though Bach is a much better singer and songer writer, scott equals more album sales thus they picked him instead. Here is the simpliest way of looking at it.
What album would sell more, one that sounds like stp or one that sounds like skid row?

Perhaps the difference between those who are into VR and those who have a problem.  Is really just over who the singer is?  

I know i love STP anyway and i'm being totally honest when i say if Bach was there i wouldn't be half as interested in VR as i am with Weiland.  

Have you seen the GAK bootleg?  Fuck man Bach murdered everything he sang - when playing with really great musicians, he just looked out of his depth.  I mean come on anyone who even attempts to out do Axl on the live stage is just going to look foolish.  AXL is the man.  

The difference between Axl and Scott - put in basic terms is that Axl is your Plant/Jagger and Weiland is your Iggy/Bowie.  They share certain qualities but are different worlds.  

I think Weiland is as close a talent to that of Axl's than anyone out there at the moment.  In terms of depth of charactor and lyric writing.  

Haha, is that so?



 :hihi:


 : ok:

OK - just got it, and it's as I feared.  The mastering sucks (George Marino at Sterling Sound, NY)!  People these days think it has to be loud to be good.  ::)  It ruins dynamic range and distorts the sound.  Unbelievable - it's all these nu metal bands that have nothing to offer except dB's.

Firstly, it's amusing how Booker pointed out your glaring contradiction.

Secondly, Bach is indeed one of the best singers alive, but I don't see how you can call him a great songwriter, because he's hardly written anything in his career.  Most Skid Row lyrics was written by their bass player Rachel Bolan.  Bach didn't even contribute vocal melodies a lot of the time.  On their first album, there were 11 songs, and Sebastian Bach only cowrote one song.  The other ten, he had no part in writing.  He contributed a bit more to the later albums, but hardly any lyrics.

haha, Booker..well done! :hihi:

Oh no I was wrong about Bach writing lyrics but he is still a better singer, and the reason they picked Scott is because the know they would sell more albums will scott? You really think if they had Bach as the lead singer they would be getting as much air play or hype?

I thought that was lying?  

So even when you "wrongly" thought Sebastian Bach was a better songwriter and singer, you thought he would "really make the album suck"?  Your backpeddling on this one should be stunning, although chances are youll just dodge the question.


But, correct me if Im wrong, "he would really make the album suck," right?  So what are you trying to prove?


So the possibility that they genuinely preferred Weiland as an artist simply doesnt exist?

I said the Bach album will SELL LESS because VR would be viewed as a hair band.
The album could be better but it would still sell less than the Weiland VR.
Got it  : ok:

As for the best choice, that was josh todd but they did not want to work with him.
So answer my question.
What singer would sell more albums with VR, bach or weiland?

 :confused:

The quote is right there...you said:

"Im so glad they didnt pick Bach, because he really would have made the album suck."


Weiland...whats your point?  That in no way indicates that the VR guys secretly wanted Bach but settled for Weiland to sell more records.

STP, because they're a better band.  :nervous:

Scott is a great vocalist.  They didn't pick him BECAUSE he would sell records, they picked him for what he can do musically.  Contraband is a kick ass album with some really great songs on it.  I love it start to finish and I am pleased to have another great album with Weiland all over it.  He is top notch.  You people who aren't digging it are wasting your time here telling people who do like it.  Why do you bother spouting off about shit you, don't know about and can't control.  VR are rockin' and why can't you appreciate it.  Axl will put something out sometime and then we can have this discussion, maybe.  But for the time being, feel blessed that we have this album in a music world that is currently full of nothing but fucking shit.  The album is brilliant, if you just shut up and listen to it.

Dennis

I'm sure Weiland's following and more modern sound did have an influence on Slash and Duff.   He's a great front man and has the sound they were looking for, so who can blame them for going for a proven commodity?  You think the GN'R / VR comparisons are bad now, imagine if they had picked Bach!  He vocally is similar to Axl in that he has a great range to go along with his strong voice.  Not only would they have been dismissed as a flashback to 80's hair metal, but it would've looked like they were trying to hold on to their GN'R heritage too much by picking a singer similar to Axl.  I even remember Slash saying in their search for a lead singer, they had people trying to be the second coming of Axl and they totally wanted to avoid that.  The GN'R comparions will never stop, but by picking Scott instead of Bach, they have a much better chance of establishing themselves as a new, fresh band....

Scott was perfect for this album and he kicks ass the whole way through. I am so glad we have this, I have been waiting for music like this for a long ass time. I liked Skid Row in the day but I am SOOO glad they didn't pick Bach for this band.

Thats So Fucking True!