Print Page - why Chinese Democracy will be a disappointment

I was listening to Contraband and reading some reviews and it hit me

Chinese Democracy will be a huge disappointment when we hear it at least at first

Velvet Revolver we love cause of the GNR connection, we all had unattainable expectations for VR

this is why i think most people dont like Contraband all that much, cause the expectations were just to high to match

having said this, look at the CHinese Democracy expectations, not only are we anticipating it more than contraband but the mystique it has built has even a whole new level of pressure

so how can chinese democracy be a success?

we have in our minds the greatest songs in the world awaiting us but can those songs live up to what we think they are gonna be?

just look at fall to pieces? the next november rain? hardly

so anyway chinese democracy can live up to expectations or are we all gonna commit mass suicide from disappointment when we hear it

what does everyone think?

With th exception of 'Silkworms,' I've been greatly impressed with every new piece Axl has played, and if he ever gets his legal shit worked out and his thumbs out of his ass, I have no doubt this album will be great....but if you mean we will dissappointed b/c it won't be another AFD (like people are saying about Contraband), well, then I guess you could be right...but I don't want AFD, I want to see the musical growth Axl has allegedly been focusing on the past decade. It all depends on the standard by which we are judging new material: album sales, resemblance to old material, or on its own purely artisitic merits.

Its an interesting question. And whenever the release date comes there will be much more in depth discussion on this very topic.

It depends if your talking baout sales or just music. We would all love to see gnr have the whole music world by the balls again. But that is asking for a lot. The material on CD would have to be so magical it captures everyone of all genres.

The more realistic throne for GNR to regain is the rock throne. Who has it right now? Linkin Park maybe eventually VR......

As long as Im happy with CD I consider it a success. And as long as the people who have been supporting axl and the new band are happy with it then I cant really ask for more. As long as the album is good as gnrs past efforts in the sense that its great music and very different and unique but all works...idk as we get closer ill make more sense...

Quote from: younggunner on June 02, 2004, 06:58:45 PM

:peace:

I think he said it all.

D, we all had a long wait and high expectations for RIR3 and hearing the new songs, and we were all impressed with Maddie, The Blues etc..

So I think if the material is good.. or at least above avg.. we will like the songs.

Contraband has been a disappointment because the material is no more than average, and with the combination of Slash, Duff and Matt, we expected more than average.

When i heard Slither was the first single, I thought it was a bit odd as it wouldnt have been one of their best tracks.. but sadly, it is.

Quote from: D on June 02, 2004, 06:02:28 PM

IMAGINE, JUST IMAGINE FOR A SECOND what?s going on in Axl?s head since 97...

if there?s 16 songs amazing and 2 songs "ok" in 18 of CHINESE DEMOCRACY, we?ll see a lots of reviews ( midia ) rating this album "just good" ...

I look at it like this.
If Axl releases the album it will have lived up to my expectations.....People have to be down to earth and realize this man is not a fucking Einstien of music because IMO there is none....If you can't listen to the album and say "Hey these are some killer tunes" or "Hey this album is a hunk of shit" than your an idiot.......If the songs are great noone can deny that fact IMO....If the songs are great you can't say it didn't live up.
What the fuck are you waiting for?....A listen of Chinese Democracy while getting a fly to the fucking moon? :smoking:

Chinese Democracys myth and hype has made it legendary years before release. However, its that hype coupled with the insane amount of time invested in it that will ultimately make it a disappointment to most. Because at the end of the day, its only a CD. Its not going to be the Holy Grail - the perfect album that many have invented in their minds. Its going to be an album of 16, maybe 18 tracks and when its over most will probably wonder "Thats it? 14 years and $13.5 million for that?" And thats not to imply that it will be bad - Im very confident it will be great. Possibly a genuine classic (not just a classic due to extenuating circumstances)...but nothing can justify that amount of time and hype. Thats the curse of his situation. Its been too long and too anticipated. The expectations are now unrealistic for many.

The only way for him to truly live up to the hype is to open the floodgates and release an awesome DVD, a book/booklet detailing the last 14 years, as well as demos, extra tracks and possibly a second CD. But that obviously wont happen. Thats the only scenario I can picture people being ulmtimately satisfied with.

Axls best move would be to release the next album as soon as possible. Like announce a release date a month or two after the first one...that way people understand that theres more, and that this one album isnt everything.

If people are expecting Sweet Child, Paradise City or WTTJ Part 2, it'll disappoint the masses. Screw the masses. Screw the critics who will pan it no matter what. I just want to hear it!!!

Now if D is right though, and a mass suicide is indicated...do we wear the purple shrouds and black Nikes like the Heaven's Gate cult of years past? Or will it be kilts and red and white Converse. :hihi:

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Chinese Democracys myth and hype has made it legendary years before release. However, its that hype coupled with the insane amount of time invested in it that will ultimately make it a disappointment to most. Because at the end of the day, its only a CD. Its not going to be the Holy Grail - the perfect album that many have invented in their minds. Its going to be an album of 16, maybe 18 tracks and when its over most will probably wonder "Thats it? 14 years and $13.5 million for that?" And thats not to imply that it will be bad - Im very confident it will be great. Possibly a genuine classic (not just a classic due to extenuating circumstances)...but nothing can justify that amount of time and hype. Thats the curse of his situation. Its been too long and too anticipated. The expectations are now unrealistic for many.

The only way for him to truly live up to the hype is to open the floodgates and release an awesome DVD, a book/booklet detailing the last 14 years, as well as demos, extra tracks and possibly a second CD. But that obviously wont happen. Thats the only scenario I can picture people being ulmtimately satisfied with.

Axls best move would be to release the next album as soon as possible. Like announce a release date a month or two after the first one...that way people understand that theres more, and that this one album isnt everything.

For the most part I completely agree.

Cd will contain 18 tracks and then another 10 extra tracks....And you mentioned that they should follow up with additional albums...As you probably know the plan is to release the second album a year and change after cd and then the 3rd.......

What gnr will probabaly do is when they finally go ahead they will have a big ass press release explaining gnr's present and future. SO when things get rolling we will know much more....And when that comes peopel wont concentrate soley on the amount of time it has taken aspect....

While I agree he has been working on more than one album's worth of material....all bets are off depending on how the first album is recieved by the public. If it does not do well, he may have to rethink what else he intends to release because this has to be a commerical success to protect his legacy. CD bombing comericially(even if the music is great) blows this whole plan up of just releasing the material he has already recorded.

Starting to see all the promotion it takes to get people interested in your project like VR has had to do, I am just not sure I ever see Axl wanting to do that. I mean a new radio show every day or a concert every other night, does anyone actually see him doing that for a prolonged period of time. I am just not sure he can consistently make nice enough to get peope to give him favorable reviews, because he needs to start kissing some ass right now, because if the critics slam this album it is going to hurt, that just the way it is. Some will look past his antics and just at the music, but I would hate to see people hold it against the music just because he doesn't make nice with them. Certainly plenty to ponder.

Quote from: Booker Floyd on June 02, 2004, 08:38:47 PM

i totally agree. well put.
about the rest of the world not knowing about Chinese Democracy?? Guns N Roses were the biggest band in the world. Then they disappeared. Even if people haven't heard of "Chinese Democracy" (which i highly doubt), they will think it's odd to hear from Guns again and will wonder, as we do, if 10 years was worth the final product.

Either way though, i don't care what everyone thinks. I just want to hear what Axl has to say. He's certainly mastered the art of perpetuating the mystery around him and his image.

holy shit i agree with booker :nervous: :nervous:

he is dead on the money that was what i was wanting to say but couldnt say it like he did

bookers post was the point i was trying to make

it can be better than the illusions but im expecting shit that will just make me jump 20 feet in the air and love songs that will make me cry and make me wanna pass out

im expecting nothin less than the voice of God and its unrealistic but the hype and mystique and the fact he said the blues isnt a big gun, i mean the blues is on par with the greatest gnr songs ever *projecting what a studio version would sound like that is* and if that isnt the best than holy fuck!

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Starting to see all the promotion it takes to get people interested in your project like VR has had to do, I am just not sure I ever see Axl wanting to do that

Gnr will do that and then some. Mark my words, Gnr will be a promotional/marketing machine when they get ths thing going.

And its not all Axl. Axl is obiviously the main member put the record company will also be introducing the other members of gnr into the spotlight in terms of promoting. All of the members will be in various magazines/interviews etc. So its not gonna be an Axl show.

The only thing im mad about is bucket leaving. IF he ever came back fugedaboudit....

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because he needs to start kissing some ass right now,

Taht is one thing Axl/gnr will never do

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because if the critics slam this album it is going to hurt, that just the way it is. Some will look past his antics and just at the music, but I would hate to see people hold it against the music just because he doesn't make nice with them. Certainly plenty to ponder.

All of that is very valid. Hopefully peopel will judge the album on the music. Thats all I will ask for. If they dont liek the music fine no problem but just hope they dont liek it because of the hwole situation. Time will tell.

Whne gnr do things seriosuly I think the media will take them seriosuly and be more professional about their reviews. we shall see though....

as long as myself and gnr fans are happy with the material thats all i care about

You couldn't be more wrong. I didn't really notice all that much hype for Velvet Revolver and 'Contraband'. But you see, the songs we've already heard from the new GNR have matched a lot of our expectations (IMO), so we shouldn't have anything to worry. Obviously, it would be next to impossible to match the hype 'Chinese Democracy' has going for it, but Axl will put forth his best effort, and you can't find any better than that...

When I say hype I am just referring to getting yourself out there. Doing the talk shows, showing up at radio stations every morning and playing your single, pre-listening parties, going to TV shows you don't like, and all of the daily rigors that come with promo. It seems like a new Slash/Duff interview pops up daily and Axl will have to do the very same things. The promotional work is a grind, releasing the CD is the easy part.

Quote from: Booker Floyd on June 02, 2004, 08:38:47 PM

Chinese Democracys myth and hype has made it legendary years before release. However, its that hype coupled with the insane amount of time invested in it that will ultimately make it a disappointment to most. Because at the end of the day, its only a CD. Its not going to be the Holy Grail - the perfect album that many have invented in their minds. Its going to be an album of 16, maybe 18 tracks and when its over most will probably wonder "Thats it? 14 years and $13.5 million for that?" And thats not to imply that it will be bad - Im very confident it will be great. Possibly a genuine classic (not just a classic due to extenuating circumstances)...but nothing can justify that amount of time and hype. Thats the curse of his situation. Its been too long and too anticipated. The expectations are now unrealistic for many.

Axls best move would be to release the next album as soon as possible. Like announce a release date a month or two after the first one...that way people understand that theres more, and that this one album isnt everything.

I totally agree with you. I'm sure it will be a great record, if Axl ever releases, but no album needs 10+ years making. And I was quite surpised when I heard RIR3, when they played (hopefully) unfinished tracks, such as Riyadh and Silkworms. I hope Axl will release the damned album in months- but it isn't likely.

Quote from: bucketface on June 02, 2004, 06:12:51 PM

i am expecting chinese democracy to be a double album. if there are less than 20 tracks... i will be dam disapointed... i will also be disapointed if im still waiting for the album this time next year. :crying:

2 cd's in 1 box or 2 boxes each with 1 cd in? (Use Your Illusion style).

I think there will be 30 tracks released on 3 cd's (each in their own box + sticker).
Ca$hing in even more so than UYI I and II :beer:

Guns n Roses and prince are the two greatest innovators of marketing and strategy

GNR with the two albums on the same day, Prince with shipping singles to radio without the record label even knowing, Prince giving out musicology cds at concerts and they count on the charts

so i expect axl to do something different, not release it conventional like everyone else does

This CD im expecting to do to music what Nirvana did to the 80's music

todays music is fuckin trash, somebody and something has to change it, why not W Axl Rose?

he has the talent and the ability and its time the music world needs W Axl Rose!

Quote from: matt88 on June 03, 2004, 03:18:40 AM

Well my expectations are good for CD from what i've heard. Nothing excellent like the old gunners did. So if the album measures up to the old standards i wont be dissapointed but my hopes for it arent that high and thats a bonus

yeah..same thing here..and what I've heard the songs from Axl and co. it won't be a disappointment for me..but I'm not saying that it's going to be #1 album for the next 2 years either..

I'm very curious about Chinese Democracy but I can't say I'm attaching myself to the outcome of what I may hear (if and when it is released). I already like the title track, Chinese Democracy--so at least I know there will be one song that reaches my soul...other than that, I'll just be glad (for Axl) when it comes out because I think (just my two cents) he needs to let go of this thing...and take the Doris Day attitude of Que Sera, Sera...whatever will be, will be...

Quote from: kupirock on June 03, 2004, 08:28:02 AM

Quote from: D on June 02, 2004, 06:02:28 PM

Velvet Revolver we love cause of the GNR connection,

...or not ::)

ok dude like if slash,duff and matt wasnt in this band anyone on this board would give two fucks about them

no fuckin way!

yeah we are lining up to hear a scott weiland solo disc arent we?

facts are without the former GNR members a very small percentage of us would give a shit!

Nice post Booker. I agree, people will want more than just a standard 16-18 song cd. Simple as that. I do. He should either make it a double album up front with 20-25 songs or IMMEDIATELY announce in his first press release for Chinese that this is only the first album and give EXPLICIT details as to timeframes for release of the rest of the material and where he is at in regards to recording the follow up record. This will deflect some of the shit the press will give him for the length of time in the studio. Of course, none of this will happen. :'(

It can't disappoint as long as you remember it's just a band. These are just people with guitars and whatever else playing music. I walked into the door labeled VR with an open mind and liked what I heard. I've kept an open mind with CD as well, what I've heard so far I enjoy.

I'm not expecting anything more than an album called Chinese Democracy from a band called Guns n' Roses. If it sucks, I'll either not buy it or return it if I have already made the purchase.

Quote from: younggunner on June 02, 2004, 06:58:45 PM

As long as Im happy with CD I consider it a success. And as long as the people who have been supporting axl and the new band are happy with it then I cant really ask for more. As long as the album is good as gnrs past efforts in the sense that its great music and very different and unique but all works...idk as we get closer ill make more sense...

Good point!

i will be happy as long as axl has evolved and the album sounds fresh and new, nothing like it out now or nothing from the gnr past

i think VR sound dated already in a way, its like they tried to hard to recapture the glory days instead of letting natural evolution take over

chinese democracy will have to be on par with the illusions in my opinion for it to not be a disappointment to many due to the long wait and just all the mystique and time surrounding it

thats all im saying

it can destroy appetite and still disappoint some, cause most people who have such a loyal alliegence to the old band will never admit if its better

if its released wait and see the negative responses

I don't think Chinese Democracy will be a disappointment. I mean, sure, us here are super hyped about anything remotely related to GNR, and if the album were to ever be released (hey, I am a bit skeptical in that department) this board will be filled with the comments made by supporters and the haters of the new material (just check another section of the board to see what I am talkin' about).

Truth be told, from what I have heard so far, in particular, The Blues, Madagascar, and Chinese Democracy... I enjoy. I think these songs are very nice. I liked The Blues immediately and after a few listens, I was definitely a fan of Madagascar and Chinese Democracy. Silk Worms is a bit different / experimental, but it is good in that way. It is not something we have heard before, or come to expect (okay, maybe after My World anything goes :)).

The only disappointing factor is the delays... but you know what, life happens. Things (good or bad) occur during good or bad times. Plans change, people change. I am just hoping (again, not all that much as the skeptic that I am :)) GNR will release their CD when the time and energy are right.

Quote from: D on June 02, 2004, 06:02:28 PM

well, i've loved every last song i've heard from nu-gnr and if CD has anything similar on it i'll love it

Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Guns N' Roses => Guns N' Roses => Topic started by: D on June 02, 2004, 06:02:28 PM