Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What up fuckers(as slash called us tonight)

just got back from the show got there at like 530 waited on line, finally got into roseland at 645 . waited till 8 for the opening act. they fucking sucked they got booed off the stage the did this Anti Bush thing that fucking blew

I was standing on the rail on Slash's side... I was the guy wearing the white t shirt that said Where is Jeff Isbell?      

On to VR... they have amazing stage presence when they hit the stage the place went nuts... they played sucker train blues and falling to pieces.. they were both great. Scott said how this song is about him turning his life around and kicking the habit....they played brownstone its so easy and used to love her as expected they all rocked

BAsically it was just a fun night. a good reminder of what a rock band should be. its an incomplete feeling without ax and izzy but u take it for whats its worth scott impressed me ... Velvet Revolver rocks!

Well isnt trying to be GnR. They are out there doing something completely different. Its like comparing Audioslave and saying it just doesnt sound like Rage. Its not suppose to.  

FYI - my friend got us to sit with "friends and family" - just off to the left of the stage, but one tier up (there is only one tier up in the place) So, i got to see an entire cross-section of the band, which was cool, but never got the straight head on angle, which i prefer, and the sound is better then on the side....BUT, we were about 15 feet from scott and slash and duff!!! :)

Some observations:

1) Slither fuckin rocks, big time...BIG TIME
2) the place was PUMPED at the beginning...tons of energy in the crowd
3) They started kinda late...the opening band SUCKED COCK, but we had to wait about 45 more mins for VR, which kinda sucked
4) again, the opening band sucked moose cock
5) Falling to Pieces is not all its cracked up to be
6) Some of the new songs sounded generic, just plain ol' rock - a couple of the new songs were really good, but others were kinda forgettable...but again, its hard to tour without releasing the cd
7) Scott is good, he used his bull horn alot, and ended the show with the siren going off from the bullhorn into the mike, then walked off stage with it still going off...but to the point...scott is good...but he is without a doubt NO AXL ROSE
8) the crowd lost some energy in the middle, without knowing the songs
9) when you're not drunk, drunk people are annoying
10) Slash looked cool, duff looked excellent, matt looked kinda old in face, but in better body shape
11) Set Me Free was HOT!!!!
12) Matt fucked up, he thought they were going into Sex Type Thing, and played it, and no one but Duff played along, he stopped, the band talked, then started Slither
13) Slash thanked NYC for being so supportive, Duff was very good recognizing the crowd as well
14) OVERALL = 8.5   it never went over the top...they should also lose Used to Love Her...was kinda bland (i guess scott cannot do alot of gnr songs) *** MSG in 2002 = 9.5/10 there is nothing like Axl fucking Rose
15) Scott had words taped on his monitor for Used to Love Her and Brownstone....kinda lame...he kept looking down at them during the songs
16) I think this band will rock, but no one can do anything to the degree that Axl can. Finally seeing Slash and Duff in person was fucking cool, but i wasn't star-struck like i was with Axl. Axl is just the best, period....he IS rock n roll......or was??? shit!

Yeah in Detroit Scott changed around the lyrics to Mr Brownstone. I was sober and singing along. I know the song like heart and he was on a different page then me and my friend. Thats the one thing that bothered me. We all know Scott danced with Mr Brownstone. We know he used to do a lil' but a lil wouldnt do it. But he needs to learn the words or just not sing them

AHHHH I HATE YOU!!!!! Im only 16 and would DIE to see Slash and Weiland perform. And when I heard they did I used to love her I almost kicked my mom in the face  :rant: . These guys seem like they'll do fine as a warm-up band for GnR

Well then he's just like Axl, isn't he?  Because Axl has had teleprompters for every song since the UYI days.  Dude, virtually every singer has them.  It's tough to remember the words for songs that are not your own, and it's tough to remember every word when you have to perform in front of a live audience.



Haha, dream on, these guys will never warm up for Axl.

you make a good point about alot of singers using telepromters, and axl using them....however, this situation is alittle different:

Scott should know that ALL eyes are on him. People are just waiting for him to fuck up gnr, and he cannot memorize those songs???? come on!

He should put the time and effort in to memorize the songs AXL wrote, someone who is naturally going to be compared to.


But i gotta say Scott is good and has some good stage moves. Slash was great on stage tonight!!!! But Scott is good, entertaining, and a step up from normal rock singers. He's good, not great, and totally not in Axl's league. But like i read somewhere....bottom line is THIS: VR are playing shows and putting an album out in a few weeks!!!!!! we are getting music!

Axl is home watching Judge Judy.    :(

Just got in from a very long day. My day started at around 9am where i met up with BiPolar and then headed to the city.

We were like the 3rd ones there so we were ready to go. Just hung out at the venue all day and talked gnr,stp, and vr with some cool fans.Now to the show...

I had right up fron on the rail in front of Slash.

If you thought CKY sucked wait till you see Living Things.....lol anyways fuck them...

Ok so we waited for about an hour for VR. I think they came on 930-945.
Same setlist as usual.

Im not gonna go into each song and all that stuff. Let me tell you about the show in a different way. GO SEE THIS BAND....Seeing Duff and SLash was unreal. It was unbelievable seeing them upclose like that. It was amazing to tell you the truth. I was blwon away by their performance.
Plain and simple this band rocks and you def. should check them out.

The show ran smoothly for the most part. The band messed up a lil here and there but nothing big. They should drop used to love her because it slows the show down and weiland cant sing it. Other than that the other gnr songs rocked. It was awesome.

It was a great show andeveryone should really check it out. Its an unbelievable experience. Duff had such an awesome stage presence. He even winked at me when he saw my Chinese Democracy shirt. It was funny but he smiled. Slash was awesome. I was looking foward to seeing him for the first time and he definately didnt dissapoint.....im tired i had a very long day.....but definately go check out the band. They rock....peace and enjoy

Hey W, Bailey, I saw you there. I was in a black GNR shirt with the yellow star. I was on your side inside, and I too was on the Slash side of the stage, though not as close.

LOL :hihi:

I just arrived home from the Velvet Revolver show at Roseland Ballroom.
It is no secret I am a huge Axl supporter, but after seeing this band, they ROCKED!

In my book they put on one of the best shows I have ever been to.

I won't put a set list, or a detailed analysis, but let me tell you, if you have a chance to go to one of thier shows. DO NOT HESITATE. I almost did and I would have missed a great show.

Scott is no Axl Rose, but he is an awesome front man. Slash sounded phenomenal, and Duff, sportign an older look, was pretty damn cool, too. Though I know he didn't look right at me, Duff did stare in my direction for a few seconds, and it made me feel happy that he definatley saw me, and the people I was with.
Scott was right in front of my brother at one point and locked eyes with him.

I was wearing my Yellow Star GNR shirt, and I was standing close to the stage on Slash's side.

I'm too tired to really write a lot, but I give it a 9 out of 10.

For anyone that was there, when they played It's So Easy, who was it dedicated to? I have my ideas but I want to make sure.

In my opinion the best shows I have ever been to in order are:
GNR
VR
Pearl Jam

Everything else kind of falls into place after that.

I'm really happy to hear that, younggunner  :beer:  

I think deep down (waaaaayy down), the Gunners all still got a whole lotta love for each other  :)

While I really do appriciate the review bro, you're review was very bias. I know you're a Axl fan, as I am... I believe you were a little too hard on them with your Axl/Scott comparisons. Axl Rose was a great frontman, now Scott is a great frontman.

Axl Rose's real days went out in 1994. Since then, we've gotten 1 song on a studio album and about 20-25 shows. All that in 10 years. Velvet Revolver will have played that in 2 more weeks. VR is what Axl wishes he was.

You can call me what you want to call me but I am right either way you approach this. Scott Weiland is what Axl could've been.

Axl Rose broke up one of the best rock bands in the world. Scott Weiland is no perfect singer... but has a hold of his career, unlike Rose who still can't finish up 1 album.

TR

Okay holy shit for the love of god enough of the AXL/SCOTT comparisons.......post the damned review of the show and get on with it......stop the whole arguing bit....it's going on in a whole 40 million other posts.  I pray to be a mod on this section of the forum some day.

I've have never been to a show so Chaotic as this one before!! The energy was incredible! I lost my shoe, my digital camera and my pants!! Luckily I was able to retrieve all 3! :D  

When Scott introduced FTP he said how this song is about him turning his life around and kicking the habit and the place just went nuts. They cheered sooo loud. It was a great moment as was Slash & Duff thanking everyone. It seemed like they were shocked by how energetic the crowd was! It must've made them feel really good inside!

Suckertrain was the highlight for me! When they hit the stage me and TOR went nuts!!!!!!! I couldn't believe it! it felt so good. It was so surreal knowing that we are amongst the first to see this band while they are still pretty much underground! I couldn't believe how many people knew Slither!! I thought it got the best reception along with Brownstone, Sex Type Thing, Big Machine, FTP, Set Me Free,   It's So Easy & Used to love her, which everyone sang along with huge smiles on their faces. What a night!!! Man! I can't wait to catch VR next time. Next time will be a much bigger show for sure. This band is gonna be HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna work on getting the pics up tommorow. I bought the shirt with the band picture on the front! I'm broke but I couldn't resist!

Your shirt is too funny, that's awesome!! And about the opening band..I wish they would save their hippy bullshit to themselves. I am pumped they got booed offstage.

I agree.. I defiantely had an empty feeling when I saw the "Guns N' Roses" in 2002 and there was no Slash or Duff playing all their tunes.  But this is VR and besides a couple of covers for the fans they are doing their own thing and Axl is not supposed to be there.

Hey awesome review bro.........sounds like the show kicked ass.....I have to wait to the damned 31st of July to see em at Rolling Rock  :(

what!!!!!! the crowd went nuts for Used to love her! Everyone was singing along. It's the biggest sing along in their set! and it doesn't nearly slow down a show as a ballad like FTP. Plus those breathers were crucial because the crowd was chaotic during the other songs! I couldn't wait for them to do FTP and Used To Love her. So I could actually breathe and snap a few pictures without the fear that I was going to get knocked to the ground and lose my camera.

i can understand a teleprompter for you could be mine, locomotive, coma especially but mr brownstone? cmon how much more simplistic is that to memorize?

same with its so easy and used to love her

i guess its good though to have a cheat sheet in case u go blank, it is definitely a comfort, and if i ever get to that level im gonna have a shitload of prompters also

rather have a prompter than forget a song, how fuckin embarrassing would that be?

THIS BAND IS NOT GUNS AND ROSES! this band is called VELVET REVOLVER. when are you people going to realize that,axl is gone,he'll never be back 'cause he has no voice,gn'r is gone 'cause axl took it away,now is velvet revolver time so enjoy the show.

Haha, that is funny.  It's cool that Duff had a sense of humor about it though.  And it's great to hear a known Axl fan give such a positive review of the show.  : ok:  Tomorrow night for me!   8)



Your pants?   :rofl:  Now that's a chaotic show!   :hihi:

I am surprised they allowed cameras in there.  I'd love to take pictures, but I'd be too afraid of losing my camera or having it stolen.  I always take my watch off too before the crowd really gets going.  But I'm pretty sure I could hang onto my shoes and my pants though.   :hihi:

Just because Im an Axl/gnr fan doest mean i never liked slash and them. I have always liked slash and duff. Anyways enjoy the hsow and i took some really cool pictures so hopefully ill get them up.

Awesome show!!! Had a special feeling to it. The opening band was aweful. They literally got booed off the stage(people are there to have a good time, not to hear your personal oppinion on politics you arogant bastards!!! Dont impose them on me whether I agree with you or not!!!) Well anyway, Slash rocked as usual and seemed in a very good mood as did Duff. Its so easy was the highlight of the night for me. Hey did anybody notice Gina Gershon sitting on the side in the VIP area? She is smoking hot!!!!

Yo I saw Gina Gershon there.... she is mad fine



and for everybody in this thread who started hating on the GNR/VR comparisons......COME ON!!!!!!!!

3/5ths of this band was in GNR

OFCOURSE THERE IS GOING TO BE COMPARISONS!

was gina gershon wearing a red skirt? i saw some fine woman in a red skirt from the balcony on t he other side.

i thought t he show was great but they should have thrown some of the gnr or stp songs into the middle of th e main set to break up the new tunes a bit.

You better explain how you lost your pants  :hihi:

Some thoughts about last night.
I was up in the VIP section, (the balcony) where the family of the band sits (i was a few feet away from Duff's wife and from music exec Clive Davis (they obviously had the best seats, they were reserved tables). Since i was up top, i had a different perspective on the show because i could see everything: all the audience and the band.
i disagree with whoever said that the show never reached fever pitch. I could see the entire crowd and let me tell you, they OWNED this crowd. There were many moments where the place was about to explode- It's So Easy, Slither (which was fucking RIDICULOUS in how good it sounded), and the last song they played
I don't need to elaborate on Duff/Slash because obviously they are amazing. Matt too. And the chemistry is incredible. you really feel these guys feeding off each other. But scott is second to none as a frontman. First of all, his VOICE!! it was hard to believe we were listening to this live. He has one of the best, clearest voices in music today. Absolutely incredible. He is THE man for that spot and he owned the crowd. Truly did.

I was standing next to a guy who works for ClearChannel and he told me that the music industry is pretty sure that these guys "are it". There is nothing to compare to Velvet Revolver right now. They are the best on the scene.
And i'm saying, they were absolutely incredible, the crowd was delirious and i am so excited to see their album go #1.

By the way, i initially said that Fall to Pieces wasn't all i had hoped, but it absolutely does grow on you, and Scott's voice is so beautiful and Slash's guitar work is really great too.

 : ok:

Oh, also, i got to stand with a few fans/family with the band (minus Scott who i hear doesn't do these pre-show appearences) while they signed autographs, took pictures (all before the show) and they were all so fucking cool. They are really great to their fans, especially Slash who couldn't be any cooler. Coming out and shaking hands can be a pain for musicians, but they really looked like they wanted to meet with everyone and were enjoying it, that is wasn't a hassle to hang out for a bit with their fans. Duff's wife was there also, standing gaurd, making sure no hot chicks got near her man (not that i blame her), but it was pretty funny. I was kind of pissed i got so close to them and forgot my camera, but... next time.  :)

Gina was in jeans and she was in the VIP area on the right hand side. Right by the stage.

some great posts in this thread

i didn't notice gina gershon, but i was on the balcony, near the wives. i DID see one black woman with a reserved table...i thought maybe it was slash's mom?????? don't know. she looked like she was there by herself.

some final thoughts: it NEVER did go over the top, trust me. yes, the place was going wild on the floor, but thats b/c most of those people were kids who just wanted to mosh. yes, there was a bit of a mosh pit going. some of those guys were my friends from my neighborhood, some hoodlums! lol again, i thought it was an 8.5 maybe 9....it was fuckin cool...not magical, but very very very cool.

and by the way, SLITHER was unreal. i think MAYBE that was the song that brought the crowd closest to going over the top. everyone was fuckin singing the chorus, it was HOT!! that song is SO FUCKIN GOOD....perfect for scott. and jesus, slash nailed his solo AMAZINGLY...much better then the frozen letterman studio.

in closing, it was cool sitting with the wives and friends, but i rather be on the floor. MAYBE thats why i never felt like it went over the top. CT, MSG - i was on the floor and it was psychotic magical madness!!! but you're all right about axl, he's done NOTHING....what a fucking shame. Can't believe Fortus was there...hhhmmmm....Axl must be home in his basement painting or playing with barbies. all the "MEMBERS OF GNR" are either on tour or spread around the country. i think Axl just rather sit in his house and smoke weed....thats the only thing i can think of.....WHY WOULD HE NOT WANNA DO GNR????

SLither rocks, hardcore, set me free is hot...this band is going to explode, there is nothing else out there to even compare. must've been cool for them, and slash in particular, to come to nyc and have a mosh pit and crowd surfers in the audience. yea, it rocked.

Cant believe all this talk about GNR and comparisons to VR and blah blah blah.......

For all you people saying Scott is no Axl, well then you never saw STP live.  I've been an STP fan since day one and have been lucky enough to see them in concert a few times including at Roseland in 2000.  Scott Weiland is one of the most amazing front man period and while everyone else looks at this band as GNR with a new singer, I look at it as this amazing singer / performer with a new band that just happens to include 3 ex-GNR guys who are incredible performers in their own right.  Just like I have decided not to compare them to STP, there's no way they should be compared to GNR.  

They are a brand new band and they completely rocked last night!!!!  I made it up to within 5 people from the stage and it was definately mind blowing.  

Anyone who gets a chance should definately check these guys out......

(Gina Gershon is so friggin hot in real life!!)

Who was the opening band at the NYC show, wasnt it Silvertide like the rest of the tour?

no it wasnt Silvertide

it was a group called Living Things i think

they said they were from St Louis

like i said they sucked huge balls

It was a great show but not magical and ill tell you why. Scott Weiland. He was awesome but he doesnt have that charm or charisma. DOnt get me wrong hes awesome but he doesnt have that magical factor.

btw...not to make this another gnrvr thing...but how come no1 makes fun of weilands cop gear and the way he dresses yet many of you make fun of pittman who has the same look?Just somehting i thought as i watched last night.....

Well I dont believe Ive ever commented on Pittmans style of dress, I think one reason is that Weiland is the frontman, not a keyboard player.  It might be a double-standard, but its a little more acceptable for a frontman to me flamboyant or ostentatious than a second keyboard player/effects engineer.  

Axl might get made fun of for the biker shorts, but I dont think anybody knocks the cop hat.  A frontman can pull it off...keyboard players, not as well apparently.  

Were obviously not all going to agree on this, but i think that Scott's voice surpasses Axl (and i love Axl). He isn't Axl, and he has his own thing going, but i found his performance extradionarily effective. I liked his little dancing (more than Axl's running and jumping). I like his strung-out heroine chic look, i like the megaphone, i like the black eyeliner. Scott Weiland brings a "hip" sort of glamorous element into this band and will help to attract a different type of fan, the kind of person who would NEVER be seen at a GnR show (or one with 3/5ths of the new members). I couldn't believe seeing these kids walking around the VIP section. The punk kids, the real alternative kids. They are not the rock kids, but Scott has crossover appeal and will snag an audience that is rather snobby and elitist about what music they like. I can't tell you how surprised i was to see these people in the audience.

And Booker, i totally agree with you. I don't really make fun of people's clothing either, but the musicians (expecially the second-stringers) DO need to show some discression. Scott looked hot in his little police hat.  :yes:

I've been saying this since the day Weiland was announced.

The credibility he brings from the alterna/modern rock crowd is unfathomable.  The same audience that Slash had never sniffed in his prior bands is now bowing in reverence to VR.

Who said he couldn't "evolve"?.....

Evolution complete.

Oh, have you? Well done you!!  : ok: Because you are absolutely right. There were people in that audience who wouldn't be CAUGHT DEAD listening to Guns N Roses, much less at a Guns concert but they like and approve of VR. Amazing! I had to see it with my own eyes.

The transformation/perception has been amazing to witness.  I was listening to KDGE (modern rock giant) in Dallas yesterday when "Slither" was announced, the DJ said something to the effect (paraphrasing) "Here's Weiland's new band, VR.. Slash has a great solo in this song...Oh My God, I just mentioned Slash.  I've never said that name on this station before.."  

From a Joe Perry-esque existence to modern rock guitar hero..

How cool is that?

sorry for the dumb question, but what does this mean?

From a Joe Perry-esque existence to modern rock guitar hero..

do you think that VR are going to be absolutely huge and the next big thing in music, ALL music? because people last night at the concert seemed to think so...



ETA: and if the answer is "yes", then do you think they will be ready and willing to carry the torch left behind when Guns and Nirvana bowed out? That's quite a responsibilty for a bunch of guys with families and who, really, just did this out of their pure love for making music (and not some need for money/fame/etc..)

Slash has been associated with blues based playing (like Perry) for years.

Now he's associated and plays with the likes of Dave Navarro and Billy Duffy, highly credible players within the modern rock realm.

As for VR "being the next big thing", with the mass popularity of old GNR or the musical influence and social relevence of Nirvana, highly unlikely.

Billy Duffy from The Cult is modern rock?  ??? His band was popular even before Slash/GN'R.....

I think Tom Morello is a better example.


But it's interesting that the band is considered "modern" now that they have Weiland in it. Loaded didn't exacly sound like Snakepit, but I guess they weren't "modern" enough.



/jarmo

I agree 1000%.  And I will boo their asses too if they start preaching politics onstage.  Politcs are the last fucking thing I want to think about when I am at a concert having a good time.

Absolutely.  Just like Janes Addiction,  The Cult have been a staple of modern rock radio since the early days of KROQ and are played daily on that station and others formatted that way across the US.

Morello is a fine example as well, although Slash hasn't played with him to my knowledge.

Perception is reality...

1.  With regards to "bowing in reverence to VR" - I dont know if they're quite there yet.   But you probably have a better pulse on the mindset of those 'snotty and elitist' kids than I do.

2.  These snotty kids who wouldnt listen to GNR - wasnt it because GNR got too big?  See, in indie/alterna-land it's not cool to be big - IMO the worst influence that Nirvana had on modern music.  So if VR does ever get big, they will lose these fans.   'I'd rather be dead than cool'   :-X

But you're right - the transformation from essentially being irrelevant to today's music to gradually becoming accepted on modern rock radio is fascinating to witness.   :yes:

I have always wanted Slash to be recognized for his talents - including his amazing blues-style brand of rock n' roll (which you contemptuously dismiss as 'Joe Perry-esque'  :rant:).  If Weiland and his silver pants can open up people's eyes & ears to this, then I'm all for it.  

SOrry but its not even close. Axl has much more of a range and he just sounds bette rlive. Again Weiland is excellent but he doesnt standfout at all. When you see him live youll see what i mean.
I totally agree. He isnt axl and he doesnt have to be. Hes great at what he does. And i truly like him a lot. But i wasnt blown away by him last night. I was hanging with stp fans all day and after the show they told me how disappointed they were and I was like how can you say that the show wasnt great. They told me that Scott didnt seem to be the same as he did with stp. These peopel have seen him a lot too. Thats from his own hardocre fans. What made the show great for me was duff and slash. Duff was fukin awesome. Now i know why old gnr ruled. Im glad i got to caprture  some of it last night.
Overall he was fine. Hes supercool the way he moves around and dresses. I love it but it just seemes liek something was missing last night.
It was liek that at the gnr show too. Kids wanna see something thats different and good. Both of these bands supply peopel with that. Obiviously scott will bring over more of the "alternative" type fans but overall it was the same as the gnr in msg that i went to.


  I want really referring to you booker, but I'm pretty sure ive read some of your posts that have commented on Pitmans look. I could be wrong though. But it was more towards the peopel who do.

As for your point...its valid and i understand but its also rnr....a guy in a band can dress any way he wants...there are no dresscodes to your posisition in a rock band....

Yup, totally agree. That lead singer was WAY arrogant for someone who is in an opening band... ::) The stunt with Rumsfied fucking Dubya in the ass was crude and not terribly original or funny. Though it was pretty funny to watch them get their asses booed.  :yes:


ETA: i wanted to mention that i WAS at MSG for the Guns show so i have seen Axl live and still maintain that i THINK that Scott sounds waaay better. Also, i absolutely DID NOT see those kids at the Garden. Perhaps you don't know the kind of kids i am talking about. The NY downtown "hipster" scene. Trust me, wouldn't be caught dead at a Guns show. Some are my friends and they make fun of me for liking Guns N Roses  :'(.

You are.  I knew you werent referring to me.  Im not even familiar enough with Pittmans appearence to comment on it...But like many on here, you make assumptions on my opinion and presume its fact...


Im not advocating any dress code, and I dont care how Pittman dresses, just offering a possible explanation of some peoples opinions.

I wasnt assuming naything...i actually thought you have made comments on it. But maybe not. I really dont write down who said what....your the one who jumped out on it...

Why offer an explanation? If you havnt been involved in this issue or dont know much about it then why even involve yourself. The people who i was adressing can handle it themselves....

So who are the people that would be caught at a GNR show dead (or alive) these days...creed fans?

Or would creed fans also prefer VR?

I don't really pay attention to that stuff

Honestly, people who don't want to believe that the 80's are over.  :hihi:
No offense, but to many people, Guns N Roses fans don't have terribly sophisticated taste in music. They are mainly angry teenagers, metal heads, guys who worship Axl, girls who want to fuck Axl, not really intelligent, savvy, wealthy, accomplished, beautiful.... that's the perception.
Look, i am a fan, but i am reporting what i see and hear out there. I live in New York City which is as diverse a population as you can find and a fairly decent cross-section of America and the westernized world, for that matter. It's sort of funny because i got the same shit when i went to see VR than when i saw Guns back in 2002- that it was going to be mainly a "new jersey" crowd. that kind of says it all, if you understand what "new jersey" means.

Just wondering about the crowd that goes.

That was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but, the mere fact that these types if fans would even be at a show Slash was playing is cool to see.  As for me having " a better pulse on the mindset of those 'snotty and elitist' kids", it's not that at all, I just find the constant movement of popular culture fascinating.  



In part yes, but mostly it was the lifestyle GNR led and the larger than life  manner portrayed by the band during the UYI era.  They became everything they weren't during the AFD period and were blatantly grandiose in everything they did.  Hence, a major backlash by a certain sect of fandom, they needed something else to make their own instead of a band that had started out like "Rocky" in Rocky 1, but ended up the rich bloated character of
Rocky 3, ripe for a knockout.  

I think this element of fans has decidedly decreased since that time period, but, these kids who harbored those sentiments are now your DJ's and program directors at stations who follow the formats set by the music class standards of the early nineties.

Same things happened in the late 70's with the English punk movement, as it always does, history repeated itself.  But this time, in the midst of the MTV era.

I would hardly call my "Joe Perry-esque" description of Slash "contemptuous". No doubt, Perry is legendary, but he's hardly a blip on the radar screen of some of the fans VR is apparently reaching.

And yes, Weiland and his silver pants have gotten Slash to a different audience, that's a good thing..

Well said Falcon.

"They are mainly angry teenagers, metal heads, guys who worship Axl, girls who want to fuck Axl, not really intelligent, savvy, wealthy, accomplished, beautiful.... that's the perception"

Very interesting comments Badgirl.

I've found the die hard male Axl fan to be the kid who was in high school, say 15 to 18 at the time the Illusions came out, .  Anyway, they bought the Illusions, probably hadn't been into AFD much but really dug the opus-like material they and found on UYI and immediately got connected to the huge entity GNR had become.  The big arena shows, dramatic video's, Axl's shenanigens etc.  These kids didn't realize GNR had become a parody of themselves and just weren't considered cool anymore.  They were too young to remember the punk era and the social impact of that time and too blindly loyal (fixated to an extent) to understand why everything changed the second "Smells Like Teen Spirit" broke.

As soon as you become the biggest band in the world, you're not "cool" anymore.



/jarmo

To a degree, yes.  

But..

At least in the US, it was time for a social and musical enema. Things had gotten stagnant and excess became very uncool.  GNR had become everything excess represented, so to blame it soley on being "the biggest band in the world" isn't exactly the case.  They (GNR) perpetuated the
notion to the greatest degree.

Right Now in highschool is cool to like GNR again. But back when I was a freshman, I wore gnr tshirts and everyone made fun of me for liking them. But now there is nothing cooler to wear than my roxy VR tshirt

I absolutely agree with this assessment- like i said, not exactly the most aware, savvy of fans.. more just blind worshipers. Look, Axl was the kid who got beaten down and all those kids who have been beaten (the kid with bad skin, the chubby kid, the kid who could never play sports, etc...) see him as their spokesperson, their hero. They see him getting hot girls, blowing cash, living the high life while at the same time, suffering and broken hearted, and the combination of relatability AND fantasy is too much. I think that's why he draws so many, rather obtuse, die-hards.

Funny anecdote- just a few hours ago, my brother and his college friend stopped by. They are both 30 (so prime age when Guns were big). My brother used to love Guns (especially Slash because my brother plays guitar). He and his friend were in a college band (in Indiana) and when his friend saw my Guns book, we started talking about the band. My brother rolled his eyes, and Dave (his friend) mentioned that when he was in high school, he saw them in Indiana. I told him i had that show on DVD. He was totally pumped and we watched most of the show (it has one of Axl's best rants). Dave was totally psyched and my brother could not have been more bored. We then sort of joked my brother for being "too cool" to like GnR, despite liking them just 10 years ago and how i always have to throw in the disclaimer that "i am an unapologetic" Guns fan and i don't care what people think about it.
But that's really the state of the public perception today. It's not "cool" to like Guns and it hasn't been for a while. I am only 25, so i am not too aware of the musical landscape pre-80's (sad, i know), but i am smart and acute enough to try to stay on the pulse, and guys, it aint GnR!  :hihi:

Jizzo, with all due respect, where do you live? Because certain areas of the country are more known for the arts (new york in particular- it's the cultural capital of the country) Detroit as well, LA too. No offense, and i don't know where you live, but just because Guns N Roses is hot where you live, does not mean it is popular overall. I mean, shit, there are parts of this country that aren't aware that the 80's are in fact over!

I was a little brusque in my last post to you - sorry about that, but I cant let you get away with a "well-said Falcon".  I know you're a Guns/VR fan or else you wouldnt be here, but I distinctly remember you describing his guitar work as '9 minute opus butt rock' or something to that effect.  That's a bit on the contemptuous side, dont you agree?  



Yes, GNR became bloated and that was a major element of their downfall.  But for me, it was also specific events that added up to it - for example, if Axl hadnt antagonized Metallica during the ill-fated Guns/Metallica tour, then Kurt would have had to fight both of them.  OIAM didnt help, of course.  Instead Axl continued to make enemies while Kurt placed his pawns, ready for a checkmate.  It is sad & pathetic that GNR's music should be essentially forgotten due to this battle.

So enter VR!   Make people remember!


How Orwellian of you Falcon O' Brien...   Are you saying that if VR gets airplay on a KXYZ modern rock station, then people will obediently swallow VR as 'one of them'?  

That says something about the sheep-like nature of these 'snotty & elitist' people.   They wont listen to GNR because Kurt told them not to, but throw in Weiland and there is mass confusion!   Is it ok to like Slash if I am a hip punker?  Decisions, decisions.  



Good point... I hadnt thought of that.  The young hipsters who listen to Hoobastank dont know/remember the parody days of GNR and may accept VR, while the old hipsters are bemused and jerkily mention Slash on the radio.  

VR is doing a good thing by playing KROQ's Weenie Roast.  I cant really gauge how big they'll become...  I remember when people said The Strokes would be the next big thing, but it didnt happen.  

Another good thing is their down to earth image despite their obvious rockstar qualities - something Audioslave doesnt have.  If they can play both angles, then perception really does equal reality  :D

For all their talk about dissing the Rockstar persona, if these punkers & hipsters embrace VR it just shows that people do want (and need) the rockstar in music.  Because without one, you end up with someone like Fred Durst.  

Axl could sound even more Amazing live if he would just stand still but he likes to run around and that does not come across good when you are singing live.

Agreed.  But I believe that whatever few fans Axl has left are aware of this.  They would have to be really obtuse to not know it.   But one thing this board has shown me is the general perception of GNR fans as 'New Jersey' types is completely false.  I have encountered some witty & intelligent people.  You post here and you dont consider yourself obtuse, do you?


Jizzo lives in LA - hence his Roxy t-shirt  ;)   If he says that it's cool to like oldGNR, then it must be attributed to VR and not nuGNR.   In that sense, I truly appreciate what Weiland can do for this band.  I hope to become a true fan of him once I hear Contraband.

Key word there being "some" (witty and intelligent people). No offense, but it seems to me that the majority of rabid fans are neither. Moreover, i am far from a typical GnR fan so i wouldn't use me as the example.
We are free to disagree about this, but from having been at the MSG show and this VR show, and seeing the people who get their early, stay in line for days (thus, the die-hards), i think the "new jersey" (and even THAT is generous) assessment is right on.  :hihi:
It's funny, because i often say that Axl Rose would never want to hang out with the people who worship him the most. Does anyone remember that article (posted here) where he comments that for every 10 people's hands he shakes, 3/4ths of them try to pull him in... And how annoying that is to him (paraphrasing greatly here).

Sure.  Guilty as charged.  I do not enjoy that era of GNR whatsoever.  I understand why some do, just not my taste.

Not the "Joe Perry-esque" comment though.  Nothing wrong with that at all, Slash just seems to have moved from that style with VR.


I don't think it's forgotten, just not revered, not regarded seminal.

Notice when there's positive GNR mentions/footage etc, it's always AFD related.  The Illusions are never cited, hell, not even mentioned when discussing the GNR legacy.


Not necessarily.  However, it does get them to an audience they must crack to have any amount of success in todays musical landscape.


Agreed.

To say VR will be the "next big thing" is a bit short-sighted, but the mere fact they can recreate themselves in a manner in which they're taken as a different entity and find success in a different fanbase is a great accomplishment.

Your last comment about Axl was interesting... I truly wonder how he feels about us.

One thing I'd like to add is that while you may or may not be correct in your assessment of the American fans as being the 'New Jersey' type, it is not fair to say that of the international fans.  They have an entirely different perspective on music than what we see in the US.   It may be that they are less worried about being hip and punk than just liking decent music regardless of the public perception of the band.

Source: NEW YORK POST (newspaper), Friday, May 28, 2004
ROCK REVIEW
VELVET REVOLVER

Iron fist in Velvet?s glove
By DAN AQUILANTE
(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/nypost.jpg)
ANYBODY who was looking for Guns N? Roses II at the New York City debut of Velvet Revolver would have walked out of the Roseland Ballroom Wednesday sorely disappointed.

Although the majority of VR?s crew are ex-Gunners - Slash, Duff McKagan and Matt Sorum - this band, which features former Stone Temple Pilots singer Scott Weiland as its axle, definitely has a personality all its own.

Together, these boys made music with an old-fashioned heaviness and aggression that spits in the face of modern pop.

This was music to band your head to - part metal, part industrial, edged with a sense of danger.

The bombastic arena ballads that GNR was famous for were MIA during this tight, 90-minute show.

This was only the sixth public performance VR has played, so it wasn?t perfect.  But nobody expected that.

The chemistry between the former Guns was intact, but Weiland, who in the past suffered from a bad case of lead singer syndrome, was feeling his way through the music.

Take the concert opener, ?Sucker Train Blues.?  Although it?s easily one of the top tracks on the band?s upcoming ?Contraband? album, Weiland projected the walking-on-glass attitude of a week-end guest who almost spilled red wine on the new white couch.

But as the show progressed, Weiland ditched his inhibitions, eventually turning in a riveting performance.

The turn-around song was ?Fall to Pieces? which the cavernously thin singer introduced by telling the fans he had just kicked heroin and lost his wife when he first heard the tune.

From then on, any sense of aloofness was gone.  Weiland sang back to back with guitar ace Slash ripping through tunes, he climbed the drum riser to get up-close appreciation of Sorum?s beats and he worked the front rows like the pro he is.

Guns fans were given a taste of the past with the oldie ?Used to Love Her? and a top-shelf ?Mr. Brownstone,? while devotees of Stone Temple Pilots were treated to ?Sex Type Thing.?

If Velvet Revolver gets polished by the rigors of the road, the band will become one of rock?s most dangerous weapons of mass distraction.
end


Source: DAILY NEWS (NYC newspaper), Friady, May 28, 2004
RUSH & MOLLOY
BY GEORGE RUSH AND JOANNA MOLLOY WITH BEN WIDDICOMBE
Photo credit:  LARRY BUSACCA WIREIMAGE.COM
(http://gypsysoul.lunarpages.com/dailynews.jpg)
THE HITS KEEP COMING: Steven Van Zandt took time out from whacking people to hobnob with Velvet Revolver triggerman Scott Weiland at a party for the band at the Hotel Gansevoort.

Band on the run
Some of rock?s baddest bad boys were up late Wednesday.  But, sorry to say, they were all behaving.

The evening started at Roseland, where former Stone Temple Pilot Scott Weiland and Guns N? Roses vets Slash, Matt Sorum and Duff McKagan unveiled their band Velvet Revolver.

After the show, Gina Gershon, Sean Penn, Andy Hilfiger and others moved on to the party Tony Theodore prepared for Arista chief Clive Davis on the roof of the Gansevoort Hotel.  Some got tired of waiting for the band. (Penn moved on to Marquee, where he hung with Leo DiCaprio and Gisele Bundche.)

When the Velvets finally did show (around 2 a.m.), people were checking their eyes - especially those of Weiland, who has battled heroin.  But a spy tells us: ?Scott seemed like an altar boy.  He was clear and sharp.?

Another source credits Davis with keeping ?four very volatile people together.  He?s a father figure they respect.?
end

I wasn't saying that about the International fans, though i have to be honest, i am not clear on how people in far eastern countries relate to Guns N Roses... I know that music is without boundaries but i don't get how people who go to the shows barely speaking English (some, not all of them) can understand the lyrics (which is half of the listening experience). Perhaps it is the chaos and the rebellion they are responding to, but i still find that quite a narrow experience when you consider the depth of Axl's lyrics.

But, i have the utmost respect for European fans and their taste in music. I can only speak about Europe as it is the only other continent i have spent time in.

About Axl's feelings about his fans. I can't be certain, though i am quite confident in saying this, i think they appreciate and need the die-hards, but they wouldn't want to hang out with them.
Generally speaking, people are attracted to those who have their own life, their own interests. Most famous and accomplished people don't want someone gushing over them (at least, not forever). If Guns N Roses is your entire life, then that says something about the quality of your life and the kind of people that will be attracted to it, no? Again, i am not speaking of all Guns fans, but there seem to be quite a few who live and die by this band.

badgirl:


Hmm, I wouldn't say that at all.  I'm your age, and it definitely wasn't cool to like GNR during the bulk of the 90's.  However, over the last few years, I think this has changed decidely.  

I see kids today wearing GNR shirts.  Check out "trendy" stores like Urban Outfitters.  They sell GNR shirts right along side Eminem, Metallica, Rolling Stones, and Nirvana shirts.  Hell, I was in a bar the other night and It's So Easy came on--and people were singing along.

And did you see the VMA's?  They got a huge reaction, and despite a shoddy performance, were treated like gods by the MTV VJays (and even that chick Michelle Branch).  

I think it's definitely cool to like GNR again.


Falcon

I wouldn't say they aren't cited at all.  They'll typically have a clip of the November Rain video thrown in there...

But yeah, it's clear the Illusions aren't remembered as fondly as the AFD/Lies era by the media... I think only diehard GNR fans (like a lot of people who post here) regard the Illusions as highly as AFD.

I am not disagreeing with you that in the 90's it wasn't cool to like GnR. I have maintained that all along. Furthermore, you cannot judge a band's popularity by the reaction to bar songs. I too hear the classics come out in bars when people are wasted and react quite positively to a little nostaglia. But they also jam that way when "Here I Go Again" comes on and you know they aren't out there supporting Whitesnake.
Furthermore, again, it depends on where you live. I am confident there are people in America wearing Guns N Roses shirts, however, they are not in the major cities (where the money is, where the tastemakers are) of NY and LA, and if they are, they are few and far between.
Appetite for Destruction is still a hot album. Always will be. Most everyone agrees that it is the shit. The band, on the other hand, is not.

Well, I think you are flat out wrong.  I live in Atlanta, but travel to cities like New York and Miami quite often.  


You and I agree that AFD is remembered as a cool album.  GNR is remembered for AFD mostly nowadays.  

Well, Minneapolis isn't really in the same class of cities as New York or LA, but I wear my Guns N' Roses t-shirts around occasionally.  Granted, it's usually before I go to a (house) party, and after I've gone a couple of weeks without shaving, but I still think it helps complete a very "drugged and drunk" image for me.

Actually, aside from when I saw VR a few weeks ago, I've never seen another person wearing a Gn'R shirt here.  I really don't see Gn'R as ever being "cool" again, at least in that NY/LA way.  That's not to say I believe they could ever achieve mass popularity again, but I can't really see the "snotty, elitist" artistic types from NY/LA ever really accepting them (since the AFD era) again.   If Axl succeeds with his new Gn'R, that'll only give them more reason to despise him.

Of course, I'm saying this from a very "midwestern boy" viewpoint; I've never actually been to NYC and all my time in LA was spent doing other, non-music related things.