Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Just heard the Minneapolis show, and man is that a beautiful song. Slash's guitar is practically crying at spots on it. This song will be a crossover Smash for them as its not too hard or overly complicated. Just a beautful ballad. I can't wait to hear a studio version, and I can't wait for the masses to hear this song. It will fit into so many different types of radio formats as the guitars are not overly agressive, and it will be huge. That and You got no right will certainly get more than their fair share of radio play when the time comes. I am more excited about VR than ever right now.  :drool:

Yeah, the song was great, I liked it for the very first time I've heard. Slash's guitar reminds me of Led Zeppelin's ballads - such a brilliant playing, a fine theme with a lot of emotion.  : ok:

absolutly rrrright.
this song roxor.
VR is da bomb. i really enjoy that mineap show. i hope we get more soon, and i sure hope they come and tour in europe ....

VR is saving us !
 : ok:

How can i hear this song?

Thank you, please

Visit the Mineapolis thread, there you'll find the Bittorrent file you can download.

I disagree. I think its a pretty good song but not a timeless osng or anything. The comparisons to scom or NV arent even close. The song has no energy to it. Slash guitar work is pretty dam good in it but aside form the chorus with the guitar the song isnt that good. He must sing the chorus a zillion times.

If this is the song Vr or their fans are banking on, you are all delusional. The song that should be talked about is Illegal I. That song has a great feel and vibe. Has energy and isnt repetive.

The song is great because it is simple. It's soft and Slash's guitar is amazing. The nature of it will allow it to be played on so many different radio formats because VR aren't pigeon holed into a certain niche in the rock world. It could easily become a huge song because compared to anything else out there, it blows them away in terms of being a heart felt ballad with Slash's guitar crying. it's not overly long to prohibit it from being played on the radio, and I can already see a killer video. I am sorry you don't like the song younggunner, but the formula in it screams cross over hit, which will only add interest to the band. The song is not supposed to be the second coming of NR. It is what it is. Most of this generation has never even heard Slash's guitar showcased, there will be plenty of people who love this song. Sorry its no maddie or the blues. :confused:

thats like saying Coma is better than sweet child, jungle and paradise. A song doesn't have to go on and on to be a good song. Don't get me wrong Coma is problably in my top 5 fav songs

I'm not a fan of the song by any means but I do think it has the potential to go about as far as a power ballad can go in this day and age.  

It has a chance to reach multiple formats and varied forms of audience, hell, it'll probably get some run on pure pop stations that play Britney and the like.

That said, I doubt seriously it'll reach the heights of success SCOM did, I mean c'mon, that song was released in a time when the power ballad ruled the airwaves and it's generally considered one of the classics of the genre..

Oh, there will never be another scom or NR. First NR wil never be repeated because there is no station that will continuously play a 9 minute song. SCOM will never be repeated because the song had a classic riff that was like lightning in a bottle, you can't recreate the wheel again. Also, MTV doesn't play rock music video's so that doesn't help either. All that being said, at about 4and a half minutes it is a tame enough song it will end up on pop radio and various different formats as stated above. VR doesn't have a built in niche like GNR or STP where they are strictly classic rock or strictly alternative, but can be whatever at this point. The song will have the same appeal a nickelback song would. Top 40 will play it, as well as the hard and modern rock stations. That is its best chance at success as it is not a hard song and the guitars are extremely melodic.

Im sure it will be a well recieved song. All im saying is that Ive been reading these fan reviews  that compared the song to scom or nv. And in no way does the song have any of those vibes or resemble them in any way.

Its a pretty good song. The guitar work is excellent. Its not slash at his best but its def. the best thing ive heard from him since gnr. The strengths of the osng is slash work and the chorus...

It def doesnt come close to maddy.

 after i hear a better version i can judge it more objectively.

While I do think Fall to Pieces is a great song, I am going to have to agree and say Illegal I is definitely a song to talk about as well. I have it from the Minneapolis show and it sounds awesome!

can sombody send me an mp3 of this song?

I am just sitting here listening to this song right now, and am just blown away by the melody of it. It's nice and soft, and I can just see Slash making that guitar cry the way only he can.....the more i listen the more simplistic the song gets....scott is right about the melody on this song, it is just fantastic. It won't blow anyone away the way a NR did, but man is the melody on this song just beautiful.

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE PUT UP AN MP3 ?????
the torrent file is too large to download, it will take 6-7 hours :(
and if you do put up fall to pieces, please put up Illegal I as well
thanks

Someone posted this link on another thread:

http://www.mama-kin.co.uk/downloads/Velvet%20Revolver%202004-05-15,%20Minnealpolis/

Make sure you copy and paste the whole link instead of just the red part.

Without sounding redundant, I at least have to concur with most of the points posted above, both negative and positive...The song has a simple enough melody to stay forged in one's brain for weeks.  The song will succeed within multiple formats and be a huge hit for the band, however, while I don't take everything at face value, I have to admit that the barrage of press articles which constantly compared the song to NR and SCOM definately had me lined up for some disappointment...Needless to say, through my own false assumptions, largely due to the tremendous amount of hype generated by the press about the song, I admit I was left feeling a bit underwhelmed...
I think I anticipated a 6+ min. epic, with full blown, self-indulgent orchestration, etc....Then again, that was always Axl's vision...
I actually downloaded the full show, but have promised myself to only listen to this 1 song...The quality is not nearly at an acceptable level by which I could reasonably assess the songs...It's not fair to VR, and it's not fair to a fan such as myself who is, and has been for months, awaiting the album so excitedly...Who knows?  Perhaps the studio version will have the 24 guitar overdubs with violin and cello I was anticipating...If not, decent song anyhow, just not what it was reported to resemble....I WILL PERSEVERE AND HOLD OUT UNTIL THE RELEASE!!  I really should stop deceiving myself so badly...the anticipation is killing me!!!  I WON'T LISTEN!!!  I CAN'T LISTEN!!


Cheers,
Joe

Nope, Duff distinctly said that while he thought about putting in cello, they kept it simple.

I have yet to hear this song, and will refrain from doing so until the albums released (well...until May 28 in Philly).

Good to see you Booker....I've recently returned to school and have found the albatross that is academia pretty overwhelming...been absent for a spell, but hopefully i can re-adjust and manage my time a bit more efficiently...I hope to be at least a bit more consistent round here....
I'm in full agreement with you...no more songs until I can hear them as intended on the 8th...I only hope I can hold out and avoid the inevitable leak first...

I'm one of the ones who will not download anymore until the album comes out but isn't this odd???
I jumped at the chance of downloading new GN'R's songs as soon as they were online, but I wanna hold out to hear the album for VR, apart from already hearing Slither, SMF & YGNR.

I guess it's easier with VR when their album release is only weeks away, whereas the GN'R album doesn't even seem to be on the horizon at this stage.

Does everyone remember a few years ago, when there was an unknown guitar section played in the background of the Estranged "Making the Videos" that was speculated to be the background for "This I Love"? The opening guitar to "Fall to Pieces" sounds VERY similar to that, but I can't tell because of the shit quality of the MP3. Is anyone else recognizing similarities? Could they be the same song?

And speculating even further.... Is fighting for the rights to the unreleased material during the GN'R partnership era a possible explanation for the Slash/Duff lawsuit?

That's really cool to hear, I love that little guitar doodle that Slash plays in the making of Estranged, it sounds a bit like the intro to Yesterdays but much more melodic. Slash is the king of melodic/emotional guitar pieces. I hope it is the same song!

regarding the song FTP


"all the slash's solos in the world couldn't save you... from all the crappy lyrics you have inside!"

this song lacked feeling, a good guitar solo, a good voice, and better lyrics. not an epic, not decent. half good and that's cuz duff and matt are playing it. other than that. that song just doesn't do it for me.

i'll take the blues any given day over that.
the weird thing is YGNR sounded a lot better than this, and this is song is what they're considering for they're second single! way to go VR   : ok:

The weird thing is, you are in the minority. Most people here have expressed there love for FTP. Yes it isnt as Epic as a November Rain, but it sounded so beatiful, Slash's solo is great. Its all a matter of a opinion & if we were to go to the polls now, most people would feel this is the smartest single selection for the 2nd single

Not saying you cant have an opinion, but dont make it sound like your opinion is the only one which matters & that VR shouldnt use it as the 2nd single just coz u dont like it

Besides what is our opinions based on right now, its based on a badly mixed concert bootleg, i think all of us should at least wait to here the studio version a few times before passing judgement 100% on it

good song. I like a lot "do it for the kids" too". I'm stannding for the album versions to make a real judgment, but I pretty like them. However, I still prefer "the blues" and "madagascar"... ;D

Thats how i would describe it. Its a good song but def. not this masterpiece of a song that i was lead to believe. Its catchy and slash is excellent on it. But its not like a classic or anything. Naturally im gonna compare what vr claim to be their best song or whatever to gnr, old and new...and this song doesnt come close to anything of the old and nothing of the new.{maddy or the blues}.

I just think if they took their time with this song especially it could have been a classic. Instead its good but could be a shitload better.

Song will do well. But then as scott says ...fall to pieces

it lacks any type of good lyrical inspiration. Musically its excellent but aside form the chorus the song doesnt serve itself justice.....

check out illegal i ...that should be the next single

all these songs are neither bad nor great. "Contraband" would be an honnest Rock n' Roll album. average/good, like 12/20. maybe 13/20 if they are well done in studio. it is ok. not fantastic but ok. However I repeat it, it's not close to what we have already heard of Axl's new material. Madagascar and the blues are better. Only "you got no right" could be as great.

See I somewhat disagree on the song being emotionless and without feeling. From what I can make of the lyrics thus far, at the very beginning of the song Scott opens up with "been lonely since you've been gone" and so on and so on. Not complicated stuff, but simple enough people will connect with the song as everyone's felt those types of emotions before. Because it didn't take him 10 years to right the masterpiece about having his heart broken doesn't mean it its not heart felt.  It's sounds like they're his most heart felt lyrics on the album from what he's said, and throw in Slash's crying guitars and this song could become very popular. The thing that would have made it better is the excessive production Axl likes....I somewhat like that stuff, but thats not these guys styles. As duff said, they could have put in orchestras and this and that, but they wanted to keep it simple. I think this is an example where less equals more.

If there is God then this song will be a huge hit!  :yes: Definitely one of the best songs since GNR era  : ok:

I totally agree. For the most part, the songs are good. But they arent great. Its just rock. I was expecting some great sonsg and more sleazy type of songs because thats all the band has been talking about. Making sleazy old school rock. The only track that comes close to that idea is suckertrain blues. It has an old school aerosmith feel to it....After that its all reg rock. stuff that we have heard.
Idk, to me it didnt have chilling feeling when i heard it.
Im not saying you have to write a masterpiece evrytime or that it has to be a full scale production. ALl im saying is that the song has gotten much hype from the fan reviews and it doesnt come close to the descriptions. Again the Slash solo is excellent. And the chorus is too. But if they took their time with this song it could have been a lot better.
I understand they want to keep it simple. im not saying it needs an ochestra and cowbells and all that. BUt it just seems like its not complete.

I totally disagree. I think the exact opposite for this song, in particular. I understand the bands philosophy is to just "rock and keep it simple". Thats fine witht he rest of the songs, but this song had potential to be something instead they watsed it.
I think that whole lets keep it simple thing is way overated. Just to do something just to keep it simple limits you. ANd if your content with with that then fine but why watse all the talent? this band has a lot of talent with slash and weilan and duff....but to watse it ...idk....

like many of the songs, ftp is good but could be better..its a pattern im getting used to with slash since he has left gnr....

The thing I just don't get is this whole 'could be better" comcept all the time. Anything could be better if you keep tinkering with it all the time, and that goes for any GNR song ever written as well. There comes a point where when you're sitting there listening to it you think it accomplishes what you want and you put it in finished box, not the perpetually working on it one. Slash and Duff have said many times we still probably wouldn't have the illusions had Axl had his way and kept working on them more tweaking them, so does that mean those could all be bettter as well. I think the songs accomplish everything VR wanted out of a debut album.....there are some catchy ones that will be singles, they have good riffs and they rock. They weren't trying to reinvent the wheel like Axl is. It is just s difference in musical philosohphy, nothing wrong with that that signifies the guys aren't trying hard enough. I would bet we will see significant growth on the second album as they still are a new band. Frankly, compared to old GNR stuff it doesn't match up.....but what does? Compared to everything else out there right now, I think VR is as good or better. Axl will never release an album so we won't know what he's doing, but even he so far has pretty much just reinvented illusions era stuff, so its not like he is exactly been Mr. revolutionary himself. I think the thing we need to realize about Slash, Axl, Duff and the rest of them is that GNR music was made with the 5 of them, and take any one element away and you aren't going to get better than the original GNR because they were all necessary to make that music. Slash/Axl were like Perry/Tyler, Richards/Jagger, Page/Plant.....take one away and neither are ever the same. They may still make good music, but never to the level of their creative bests together. That being said, we should be happy we at least have some new material to listen to that at least sounds like a motivated and focused slash....which we hadn't seen in a while. FTP sounds like vintage slash, which makes me happy.

Except for th eblues, songs liek maddy,cd,rhiad,silk worms and omg wouldnt be on the illusions.

Im not saying you have to be revolutionary.

That might very well be true...but the last member has yet to unveil his material. Till then we have to hold on to that comment.
I agree. I like vr. Im not trying to knock them at all. They will def rock. Plus tehre a great live show. But they make it seem liek there the next big thing in rock. And there not. There better than all of the shit out there but Im not going by those standards. Im going by the standards they have all set in their previous efforts with stp and gnr. Im glad we have some new material from the old guys. I'll prob check out the album when it comes out. Im even going to see them in nyc. There a talented band but they are limiting themselves imo with thier musical philosphy. That doesnt make it wrong at all. Thats why gnr split up. musical directions. no1 is right or wrong. When cd comes out we will have a better idea of who had a better vision....

How can anyone compare this song to SCOM? Its not even close.
Its not even close to the blues.
The blues lyrics are by far better and the guitar solo is the blues is better than FTP also. Btw I thought slash HATED playing ballads, guess that is just another lie eh?

.
Subjective.



Non factual.

Dave,,Dave,,Dave you cant comment without animosity towards ex members even if u try,eh?

You must be kidding. Robin Finck should have take some guitar lessons first, then form a garage band, but shouldn't ever join GN'R... He's the second worst instrumentalist GN'R ever had (Mr. Close-friend Tobias is the winner).
FTP's guitars blow away every guitar theme from the Nu-GN'R, however if Slash has a band, I will always miss Axl and vice versa. But I had to face that they can't stand each other, so we get only great (or sometimes mediocre) stuff, but never a classic.  :'(

I am not kididng and Finck is an amazing guitar player.
Axl seems to think and so does Trent.
They would not have them in their bands if they did not think he was good.
As for VR I am sorry to tell you but they are alternative rock they are not hard rock like old gnr was.
So call the new gnr nu gnr all you want but their songs are much better than VRs.

As for you Falcon of coarse its subjective, everything when it comes to music is.
So what is your point? Instead of stating the obvious why not make an opinion and stop wasting peoples time.

Can everyone just wait until you have the fully recorded studio versions of the songs?...comparing bootleg live versions is silly. Songs could be dramatically different in the studio-ESPECIALLY Axl's-who the fuck knows what is going to be on the album, let alone what it will sound like. Buy Contraband-listen-absorb, then hopefully one day buy Chinese-listen-absorb, THEN make an argument. Arguing about soundtrack songs and shitty live bootlegs is a waste of time. Just my two cents. Both Axl and Slash sound much better in the studio than they do live. ::) ::)

I've already stated my opinion so why repeat myself and really "waste peoples time"?

My point is goofy blanket statements such as:

"Its not even close to the blues"

...and the forever popular:

"The blues lyrics are by far better and the guitar solo is the blues is better than FTP also."



Both are merely one persons opinion (stated as fact) whose post reflectled a lack of objectivity.

Therefore, their opinions (stated as fact) shouldn't be any less respected, but debunked as rhetoric and taken less seriously.
 

 

i havent heard fall to pieces yet but i can guarantee two things

one the lyrics wont be better than "the blues" the blues are some of the finest lyrics mr rose has ever written

but on the other hand i can guarantee that mr slash's guitar solos and melodies piss all over the blues' guitar melodies and solo's

i have to wait and listen to fall to pieces first, but this is what im anticipating

D-

The melody in this song truly is fantastic. I am not going to get into a New GNR vs. VR and what is better debate, but the song is Slash at his finest and I think we all know what he is capable of in terms of writing beautiful melodies. The blues is a great song and so is FTP.

Someone said already that the beginning has a hint of GNR's "Yesterdays" in it, and I'd agree with that. It's a really nice melody. For some reason when I listen to it i think its got the same vibe like that Pearl Jam song..i think its called "Elderly Woman Behind A Counter In A Small Town" or something really long. I dunno why I think of that song when I hear this, maybe something sounds the same but i cant pinpoint it.

scott weiland rip off eddie vedder? surely u jest!

Falcon you really need to get a clue.
I am so sick of your  bullshit.
Everything said on these boards are OPINIONS when are you going  to understand that.
I NEVER stated anything as fact its just your little imagination wanting to start shit.
Tell me how I stated it as a fact?
 I didnt say its a fact that so and so is better.
So tell me how.

And again yet another slash lie, he always said he hated ballads yet he is doing quite a few in VR. Good job slash. : ok:

Heres something different,Dave-gnfnrk getting all aggressive when he reads that other people actually like something he doesnt like..Axl will save you buddy,keep hanging on :'(

I am not getting aggressive that people like the song, I am getting annoyed at Falcon for trying to say because I said the blues is better that I am stating it as fact.

You slash lovers really need to learn how to read and comprehend. It?s not too hard.

Anyone will half a brain can see that, but I guess some people just make up stuff or ignore the true point to try and start shit.  ::)

Whether he says he hates ballads or not, he always done them...so wheres the inconsistency?  He did them in GNR, Snakepit, guest appearences ("Street Child")...and hes still doing them in VR.  

Quite a few?  Quite a few is the 9 or 10 ballads on UYI.  VR has 3 amidst an album full of rockers.

But why am I trying to reason with you?  ???

3 songs out of a 12 is a lot.
That is 25%.

As for the UYIs you say they had 9 well that is 9 out of 30 songs which is 30%
Pretty close if you ask me

After examining each of our posting history, one would venture the cluelessness wouldn't be pointing my direction.


Objectivity is a tough concept to grasp, hang in there, it'll all click....
sometime.




Wrong.  Plenty of facts are discussed on these boards, along with our share of shameless fanboy propaganda stated that way.



Here you go:

"Its not even close to the blues"

"The blues lyrics are by far better and the guitar solo is the blues is better than FTP also."

How's that for examples of opinions stated as fact?

More facts:
As you'll see in my post regarding this song, I don't like it.

As you'll see in my post history, I'm hardly a "Slash lover".

I say the following with all honesty, and to some degree, pity.

Not attacking anyone by any means, I never have.  

That said, It seems as though the emergence of VR and the success/attention etc. the project is getting is taking the levels of bitterness displayed by some to all new heights.  

The album is 13 tracks with a bonus ("Bodies," I understand).  Thats 14 tracks.  "Negative Creep" is supposedly a B-side as well...

Thats beside the point because percentages are meaningless.  Its simple: 3 ballads is 3 ballads...not would I would call "quite a few".

I really don't know what the point is your getting at.

Yeah I agree Finck is a good guitarist, but his style is hardly any more hard rock like original GNR than the comparisons you are making with VR.
Silk Worms, Madagascar, hard rock? I think not.
And that's not saying the songs are bad.

But everything I've heard from VR is most defeinitely hard rock, at least to my ears it is.

I think it's a modern take on hard rock, a definate evolution for Slash and Duff.  No more over indulgent solo's or clanking basslines.  

The live show is definately a throwback to GNR pre Illusions.  Loud, sweaty balls out adrenaline fueled riff driven rock music.  Not to mention the presence of one Scott Weiland.  Questionable wardrobe but unquestioned
charisma.  The Weiland /Slash dynamic is incredible as well.

Back on topic, I still don't care for the tune.  Just my opinion of course..

No surprise there...We knew that from the very first description of the song... ;D

Is there any ballads you do like, Falcon?

A throw back? Oh you got that right, they lamely ripped off the gnr into.
You wanted to best, well they didnt make it.....etc etc

how fucking orginal is that  :rofl:

Yeah, they ripped themselves off... ::)

So clueless... :no:

Good to see your criticism is limited to something as trivial as that  : ok:  Of course now youll go ahead and struggle to pick apart the actual performance, but youre just as transparent and childish as ever.

Two that come to mind:

SCOM of course, the song is just so damn good it transcends the genre.

"Edie, Ciao Baby" by The Cult, probably a stretch putting it in the power
ballad category but a little less aggressive than what I'm accustomed to from one of my all time favorite bands.

And to clarify, just because I don't care for songs like Madagascar, The Blues, NR, Patience, Don't Cry,and for that matter FTP, doesn't mean they're not good songs, just not my cup of tea.  My musical tastes were bourne out of punk, moved towards British new wave/goth and evolved into the alternative mainstream of the early 90's. Power ballads just weren't prevelent within those genres, therefore, my lack of regard for them.

GNR ripped off Kiss in the fist place, so the mention of originality, or lack thereof, falls back on GNR.

Hmm guys...

I'm a huge fan of GNR and VR work... along with the kick ass shit that came off Apetite... I love Axl's ballads.

and right now Fall To Pieces sounds like a boring ass Nickleback song with a Slash solo... maybe I'll come around. I am just not impressed at all by this song (according to the fairly good bootleg I heard...)

I already gave my view on this song and I will on the others when I have time.

This thread keeps going and going and going...  :hihi:

I havent it heard it yet (waiting for June 8th), but I would like to know if FTP sounds as if it could be on Lies?  
What I mean is, does it have that raw acoustic feel to it?  I love that sort of stuff.  Oh, and there's no piano in it, right?  Just guitar?

Na, lets not get crazy here. The song is very good. And vr is a lot better than most of the shit out there.


Def wouldnt come off Lies. Its more of an illusion type song. Its just guitar. Slash really shines on the track. If you ask me, if they took their time with this song it could have been a classic but its still an excellent song.

Just a thought here Dave, will you be attending the VR show in Boston 5/29?  GNR is undoubtedly your favorite band, and seeing as how 2 very prominent former members and 1 other former member will be in your area, I was wondering if your bitterness will prevent you from attending or will you witness the closest thing you'll ever see to AFD era Guns?

It's your basic formula power ballad, albeit with very a very good
guitar player and a helluva frontman with an emotional investment in the song.  Not much of an accoustic feel..

No keyboards in the live setting..

I believe the subject of your and Falcons posts was "the live show" (because I dont believe that intro has anything to do with "Fall To Pieces").


 : ok:

As for your opinions on the other songs, dont bother, because theyve already been given a million times.

Each review will be "ITs average, their nothing special, it sounds like STP alternative rock, they dont hold a candle to maddy or silkworms, lmao slash is scuh a lier@! Maddy blows them away cuz their avrage, etc., etc.".  This should fuel another 300 posts for you.  Same goes for Younggunner.  "Im a fan of Vr, their good until the big boys come out to play.  Each song is average.  Theyve got good guitars...i mean the guitars are great but...Vr will rock in a very average way, but Gnr will rock the world!"  ::)  We already know...

By the way, seems like youre paying an awful lot of attention to a band that youre boycotting...downloading bootlegs, making numerous posts about them on several message boards, etc... :hihi:

Falcon, how was the crown on the floor when you went? A lot of moshing or no?

Booker and Falcon people like you are just trembling after hearing this bootlegs since you have heard how mediocre these VR songs are.  :beer:

 :confused:

Yeah...especially since I havent heard the bootlegs.. : ok:  

And you continue to look more silly with each post...

Very violent.  Fights, moshing and surfing.  Mostly toward the front if, subsiding as you get farther back on the floor.

FTP gave us a break for about 3 1/2 minutes, then they hit us with "Big Machine" and "Set Me Free" and all hell broke loose. ...again.

I am a fan of VR. I have always been a fan of stp. I have been listening to stp longer than i have been listening to gnr. And I have always loved slash and duff and what they did with gnr.

And yes thats how i feel. new gnr to me is the greatest band in the world. i dont think any band nevermind vr is as good as them. But that doesnt mean i dont listen to music other than gnr. VR will and does rock. Im gonna go see them when they hit ny. Its gonna be a great live show, with some of my favorite players.

They will rock but yes gnr will rock the world. thats my opinion of course but to me gnr has a lot more potential than vr.

As for my opinions on the material and band...its not much difdferent than you my friend. The way you just described my take on vr is the same way you are with gnr. You go to great lengths against them but always throw in a few "but i still like them"....

I defend what i think is an unfair gnr review of the band or axl...u say im an axl loyalist who cant take a negative review....yet when there is a negative vr articel you give us a journalism 101 class and go to great lenghts to dismiss the article. Not the same with gnr though...strange...


Thanks falcon. Im going to nyc. Ill be up front i just wanna enjoy the show. its gonna be fun... Im not much into moshing. If buckethead comes maybe i will feel more comy in moshing....

I was actually in KC to hear the songs for myself, feel the energy emmitted from a well oiled five piece rock and roll band.   Read my review on this very board, it was quite detailed....It's not all emoting fanboy blather, an objective recounting of the nights events if you will.

No boots needed here Dave.

How about we stop talking about FTP like it's the only song on the album and talk about the brilliance of "Do It For The Kids"

Sorry guys, I know replying to my own post is bad board etiquette but I just realized my question to Dave was shortsighted to say the least.

I somehow forgot Dave wasn't a big fan of AFD era GNR and suddenly remembered he also considers Coldplay a rock band.

With those 2 facts in mind, an educated guess would say a VR show might frighten a person (not naming names mind you) who held similar tastes.

I seem to have answered my own question now haven't I?

Thats the most stupid song title ever... The song is good though

You also forgot that Dave isnt really a GNR fan so much as he is an Axl fan, and that his opinions concerning ex-members are bizarre and irrational to say the least.  Asking him a question requiring even a modicum of common sense or objectivity is futile.

Booker dude, if you think Dave is childish, and discussing with him is pointless and futile, why do you bother. Just let the guy love Axl, is he harming you in any way? Man, youre fucking bitter  :P

Good question, dude.  However, dude, lets not play stupid and act as if all he does is just "love Axl".  He posts plenty of inane, negative bullshit pertaining to anything non-Axl.  I already know the response: "But Booker, dude, youre negative too..."  Im not even going to get into that discussion, Ill just say that its beside the point, because youre pretending that Dave is just a poor victim who gets picked on for no reason.  Well, if you believe that, youre even more clueless than he is.  And if you think observing and commenting on his bullshit is "bittnerness," then youre once again very mistaken, dude.  

I am really loving Fall To Pieces. This song is definitely a grower. The more I listen to it, the more I fall in love with it. Slash's guitar work is excellent as usual, but I think Scott deserves some props for his excellent vocals.

I didnt say he gets picked for no reason. He gets picked because he posts that he thinks GNR is better than VR and that The Blues is better than FTP and shit like this. Hes posting his opinions, which happen to be different from the majority here. So what? BUT in the other hand, the same way you bitch about him posting "negative bullshit", thats what you do on about 50% of your posts, the other 50% are for slamming Dave. And Im not pretending dave is the victim, and Im not defending him, its just that you find every opportunnity to slam him and his "Axl worship". And its becoming repetitive and boring, DUDE  :P

I find Dave's constant comparing of VR's material never being as good a nuGN'R boring DUDE.

Thats boring as well... But thats him expressing his opinions, while Booker just slams him over and over

Dave isn't being slammed because he prefers the new band to Velvet Revolver. Plenty of posters have stated the same thing, but you don't see anyone getting slammed except Dave. The difference between Dave and the rest is that Dave acts completely juvenile about the whole matter. I have no problem with him not liking the material, but I can't take him seriously when behaves in such an immature fashion. It's like he went and deemed Velvet Revolver the enemy because they are not with his hero. So when he sees the enemy getting positive attention, he has to run in here and keep fighting for his hero and try to prove Axl is better because he has some sort of inferiority complex.

The other reason people are tired of him is because he is completely predictable. Can you honestly say Dave is being objective? No way in hell is he being objective. Dave doesn't like VR because he simply won't allow himself. He will never listen to them with an open mind because he feels he has to prove Axl is right. His mind was made up a long time ago. He isn't posting his opinion to contribute to a mature discussion, he is posting his thoughts as part of some bizarre crusade for Axl.

Compare him to D and younggunner and you will see what I mean. They both are "Axl fans" but they are listening to Velvet Revolver with an open mind. They may prefer GNR, but we all respect them because they can express their opinions in a mature, rational, manner. Dave just acts like he is an 8 year old arguing with another child over his favorite superhero.

thanks girlgunner! glad u have read my post

i love velvet revolver i love everyone in it

i have a softer spot for axl but i love the other guys alot and will support them!!! : ok:

And how many VR fans are objective?


By the way, VR using the same intro as GN'R did 11-13 years ago is funny.  :hihi:



/jarmo

:hihi: @ dave making an idiot out of himself & avoiding these issues, which shouldnt be suprizing

More than you probably think..."Objective" is relative, as in not completely blinded by hero worship.  Yeah, yeah, VR fans "bash" Axl all of the time, because we should all be thrilled with cancellations, no-shows, band members leaving and an album thats been in the "finishing touches" stage for 5 years with no release date.  I dont see a whole lot to be excited about in the GNR world, so I would think that criticism is fairly "objective" in this case.  Because when it comes to the music, I think many so-called "bashers" such as myself have given a generally enthusiastic reaction, minus "Silkworms".  Its all of the other bullshit that gets the criticism, and it doesnt really extend to the music.  Our opinions of Axl are based on him and his actions, and dont relate to any ex-members.  I dont feel the constant need to post in every thread on why I think "Set Me Free" 'wipes the floor' with "Chinese Democracy," etc.  

And Ive seen you try on several occassions to compare VRs delays to GNRs.  I shouldnt have to address this, because the ludicrousness of comparing 3 or 4 delays of a few months/weeks to Chinese Democracy should be apparent to anybody with some common sense.  Because when it comes down to it, VR delivered on their promise to get out an album.  It was a little later than wed hoped (apparently due to Greatest Hits, which is apparently a result of Axls situation).  But here they are, doing a tour (which even I didnt expect) and putting out a record - all in the span of little more than one (1) year.  And I like all of VRs new music, just like I like Axls new music, however with all of the live shows, appearences, interviews, new music, etc. etc., dont you see how there might be a small difference in the attitudes toward each band?  Why one would generally be more positive about one band than the other.  This is the kind of stuff that is genuinely exciting, and trust me, if and when Axl and Co. ever get around to doing this, Ill be just as excited.  But nothing of any real excitement relating to GNR has happened in 2 years...thats the way it is. Its just a shame that supposed GNR fans have an opportunity to get behind 3/5 of their 'favorite band' but are taking this time for granted because they feel the need to choose sides...How childish is that?


Funny in what sense?  Im assuming theres some kind of implication here, since there usually is in your VR posts.

Didnt Snakepit do it as well (if not the same guy)?  

Exactly what i would've liked to have said, but you saved me the bother :D, except i just wanna say in response to the "same intro" line, i'll use the saying "if it aint broke, dont fix it". They wanna have a fun rock n roll show anyway, they dont care about a shitty intro. It probably took Axl 2 years to come up with the intro he used in RIR3 anyway

I agree with Booker on this one, Jarmo, I have always highly regarded your  level headed mails in times when the forum is in danger of sliding into bad territory between posters.

However, I can't help feeling that you don't seem to be as 'on the fence' as usual with VR and it fans on this site.  I've seen you post mails about GNR that were highly critical of GNR. I though were brave considering Uncle Axl might be looking in on you and I respect you for that.  You're no suck-ass that's for sure!!

Lately however, your comments  seem to indicate you find some of the VR fans lacking in objectivity (which may be true) yet you seem to say nothing about the likes of Dave who frankly worries me a little he's so full if negative energy and conflicting emotions about two collective groups of people he has no personal interaction or strong bond with (VR GNR). I'm sure you enjoy when there is spice in the forum cake, I know I do but are you being fair to each and every of your loyal posters? Just a question.
peace,
Rubie

Gah, I really enjoyed "Fall to Pieces;" Anyway, I hate the notion of comparing original songs from a relatively new band to any of the member?s prior work. It seems rather pointless and can directly proceed to eat a fucking dick, in my opinion.

I've read quite many posts by both GN'R and VR fans. I see similarities. One side thinks they're better than the other and laughs at the "worshippers/asskissers" when in fact both "sides" have these fans.




Umm, as far as I remember. I pointed out that delays happen to most people/bands. No big deal to me. Nobody's perfect.....




How about "new band, new intro"?  :P


I think Loaded used the same guy because he's Duff's tech. As far asI remember, Loaded didn't use the same intro.....


Regarding Dave, he likes Axl. So fucking what? I bet some people here like Slash as much as he seems to like Axl. His opinion on VR seem to make certain people think they should attack him personally. Just because he doesn't like the band you like. That's a bit odd.

If my username was "SLASHISMY#1HEROANDHERULES" and I said ""Contraband" is the best rock album ever and "Slither" is the best music video in the history of music videos", would you attack me for being biased?

But if I was labeled as an Axl fan and said "I don't think Slither was anything special", I'd get attacked because as we all know, I'm biased....  :hihi:



/jarmo

I find it quite funny new band new intro. Let me see, my mind wanders to NEW GNR, maybe NEW SONGS, why play all the old songs then if a new band cant do what an old band did? lol thats a stupid argument

and secondly dave comes out with stupid comparisons, slither aint as good as the blues how different are they as songs. compare songs trying to get over the same message, compare the blues n ygnr or something, or slither n chinese democracy. Everything vr comes out with dave will bak it up by saying but it aint as good as GNR. Well who gives a fuck, they are different bands let them be different.

ANd yeah if ur name was slash fan then ur going to be biased thats common sense. a true FAN likes the band and the music, for sre u like someone more than the other members but saying ur a fan because u like one guy is stupid.

Fish

Yeah. It's really stupid. Sorry.  ::)

This has nothing to do with GN'R so maybe you should try to stop your mind from wandering that much?



Exactly. "You wanted the best, well they didn't fucking make it. So here's what you get, from Holly... Los Angeles, Guns.... Velvet Revolver!".  :hihi:

Now, if Contraband's cover art was a painting by Mark Kostabi, I'd find that funny as well. Objections?



/jarmo

I have never seen a bigger collection of dorks congregating in one place in my life. ALL of you people are like broken records and are extremely predictable. Booker and Falcon are every bit as annoying as Dave any day of the week (and are just as biased-contrary to the pseudo intellectual vomit they try to spew on a daily basis). Falcon, the fact that you hold the Cult in ANY kind of musical esteem is laughable and completely negates any of your musical credibility-already negated by your closed minded narrow view of "rock" music in general. I like the Cult and "Edie"-a complete power ballad if ever there was one, but they are critically and commercially irrelevant compared to Gnr (ORIGINAL)-as is STP. You guys are waxing poetic about Weiland (Astbury- same thing) like he is somehow the second coming of Roger Daltrey or Johnny Rotten. This guy can't hold Axl's jock-in any capacity at any time. Sure, Weiland and Slash fit nicely and the band is solid, but let's not get carried away. Overall, Rose is looked at as one of the greatest frontmen ever. Yes, he is a joke in some circles but you cannot underestimate or forget how huge Gnr was in their day. Modern rock-classic rock what the fuck ever-it is all the same shit.  Axl was a MAJOR part of that success and that success FAR exceeds anything done by Weiland or even Nirvana (sales wise) or any other "modern rock" act of the last 20 years.. Just my two cents. It is nice Slash has found a "good"-note good, not great-frontman and has put together his best album in a decade, but please keep things in perspective. ps I know, Axl hasn't done anything since Gnr and the comeback or pseudo comeback was a disaster. However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe.. ;D

Look at the points we are arguing over. Its clear that years of waiting and frustration have left us rendered as insane as MR Rose himself :peace:

Hhahah everyone just compares GNR to VR and vice-versa.

Dave comes in here and doesn't just post his opinion but he's very challenging and insulting to the VR fans to try to get them to fight back, he's instigating, that's all.

I don't care either way. I love the shit out of Velvet Revolver and I loved the shit out of the new GNR, I went to see them in Cleveland. But now I'm sick and tired of them and I'm disgusted with Axl. I don't go on all the boards posting about it. I don't go over to the GNR board ever to try to piss people off with it, if I do go over there it's to read posts and that's all.

But I do realize what you're saying Jarmo, we have non-VR pro nuGuns fans like that and vice-versa, and then we have the people who want to argue.

Excellent post


My only problem with vr is that they think there the saviors to rock n roll. They might very wll be. But you dont talk about it. You do it. You make songs that represent rnr or whatver. You say your this grimy band you do it. You say this and that you do it. Instead all i have heard is abover averages rock songs. SOme are excellent but nothing to boast about for the most part. Yes, it rocks but i dont need to hear all the other stuff every 10 seconds....

The people who like vr who claim they like gnr just as much are bullshitting too. When theres an absurb and unfair gnr article or review I never see the lieks of Booker go to great lenghts and give a journalism 101 class and dismiss the article. Instead He lables the people who defend the band and says you cant eb taken seriosuly because you cant handle a negative article.

Good ol vr gets a negative article and we get a free class and we must dismiss the articlce because clearly the jounralist loves gnr /axl rose .....the people who agree with the artricle just wanna bash vr .....

who cares though. If you liek vr or gnr great. Enjoy it. whatver you get out of it is only for you. Music isnt about hating. Its about personal satisfaction. We all have our opinions on why each are better or suck but it really doesnt matter. And when you really can make an opinion is when gnr material is out till then you have evry right to mock the band. And bash them. They have fucked up pr wise. But if your a fan who cares? Its about the music. So when it comes out maybe it wont dissapoint. Maybe it will be the greates thing since afd. or maybe it will be a major flop. Then what. are you still gonna hate because of the fucked up pr shit. hell no its about the music and what it does for you.

I find your entire post "laughable"...but I can't resist a few whacky diatribes...

"However, we know what the man is CAPABLE of so let's reserve all judgement until the record is released cause it will be-I think, well maybe."

At the present time (well hell, the last 12 years) he's been CAPABLE of about 5 songs so believe me, judgment has been reserved.  

One more that I found amusing, "but they are critically and commercially irrelevant compared to Gnr".  The "critically" portion is neither here nor there, each band you brought up has had there share of good and bad press.  The "commercial" part immediatley "negates any of your musical credibility" to the n'th degree.  By your logic,, whoever sells the most records is more relevent.

My musical taste remains with the influential,  forerunners of movements and leaders of genres, not with who was "huge" or was bigger "sales wise".
If those qualities (in your opinion) reflect a "closed minded narrow view of "rock" music in general.", so be it. : ok:

No, no Falcon.  Axl is holding back his big guns, remember?  :hihi:   ::)   ;)

Any rational criticism of VR is fine by me - they have an actual album to judge! Imagine that!  A real fucking album!  

Some songs are better than others, some lyrics more meaningful than others.  But the same thing can be said of newGNR!!  

I find Rhiad a rather mediocre song - funny how no one compares Rhiad to Slither  ;D   But that's just my opinion.

Obviously everyone has their own bias because it's a part of being human, but can you honestly say Dave is the same as everyone else on this board? It's not a matter of being a GNR or  VR fan, Dave just happens to be the least objective and rational person on this board.

Nice potshot by the way but what does it have to do with my post?

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. I really don't care.

It's one guy's opinion...

I wouldn't say certain VR fans are the most objective person's to judge what Axl has done/hasn't done, and I also wouldn't say certain Axl fans are the most objective regarding VR. It's all the same to me.

As I said in an ealier post, one side thinks they're better than the other....

I don't know how many times I've seen Slash, Duff, Izzy etc fans making fun of Axl fans and then they worship the ground their hero walks on. It's all the same....



What? Where?  ???



/jarmo

I am not avoiding anything, the only thing I am avoiding is the child like name calling and bashing that people like booker are doing.  There is no point in name calling back or arguing with people like that.  He and the others that do that can bash and name call all they want but they are looking like the idiot for doing it not me.


Like I have said so many times before I find it funny that I am not being objective yet others like booker, falcon etc are? That makes no sense to me. OH I know its because they like VR songs and I don't.
Well people you really need to look back when VR was looking for a singer since I said they should pick Scott.
Oh but I am sure most of you just happened to forget that point.

The funny thing is, the people that like to bash me do it because they can't argue with my points/opinions.
Instead of attacking me why not discuss the things I am talking about?
I am sorry if the VR songs are mediocre, and I am not the only one that thinks that.
Furthermore, its funny that booker and the rest can talk about how much they don?t like the new gnr or some of their songs and that is fine yet when I do it to VR its not ok and I should shut up. LOL
I just love how VR/slash fans show their true colors when people don?t like their work.  Yes I am a huge  Axl fan but the thing is there are just as big slash fans here too yet its ok for them to be that big of a fan (ie booker) yet its never ok for the huge axl fans.  That is kinda fucked up logic don't ya think?
Keep up the work guys, you are doing great.

So people like booker can bash me all they want but it wont change the fact that I don?t think VR songs are very good.

Keep posting dave,your nearly up to 3000 ::)

You are correct that there are similarities in both sides, but like I said Dave is completely different from anyone on either side. I don't mind that he doesn't like the songs, but it's just silly to constantly have the need to compare them to Axl. It would be one thing if he was saying "you know, I really gave VR a chance but they are not my cup of tea." I think everyone could respect something along those lines. Instead, he just sounds like a child saying "haha my hero is better than yours." It's just silly.

Maybe this is my bias speaking, but I do see a clear difference between Dave and the VR fans. The difference is that we don't feel the constant need to compare their songs to Axl's  to make Axl look inferior to them. It would be pointless and silly to do that. Just because someone thinks one is better it doesn't mean the other isn't good. It's also silly because they are two different bands. Not to mention they aren't even on a level playing field because one hasn't finished their album yet.

Dave and others would be completely flipping out if we went over to the GNR board to make Axl look inferior to VR.

I would really love to hear Dave's honest opinions if he would just drop the silly comparisons.


The little potshot against VR. I'm not sure why it was included in the reply to my post.  ???

I don't know if you read the GN'R section, but it sure gets its fair share of that kind of posts.

You say VR fans don't do what Dave is doing?

How about "At least VR has a record coming out"? Which is basically making Contraband good thing just because it's coming out. I'd rather wait until I hear it before I start calling the album good, great or bad.

Oh, and the biggest Slash or Duff fansmight not even post on this board....




Nothing to do with your post. Just an observation.


/jarmo

Girl Gunner,  you do read the gnr boards right?
Axl is always getting bashed over there and so is bh, and robin etc etc.
Also how many times has BH and Finck been compared to slash over there by the VR fans?
So I really dont see what you are getting at.

I don't think they are trying to say that automatically makes Contraband a good record. I think they are trying to say that at the very least they are capable of releasing a record.


I don't pay as much attention to that board anymore, but I am aware of the type of posts would go on there. What I'm saying is that you won't see people running over saying things like "Falling To Pieces is so much better than Madagascar" or "Slither blows Chinese Democracy out of the water," and starting threads to prove GNR is inferior. Maybe, I'm wrong though.

There is a difference in comparing Buckethead and Finck to Slash than comparing the two bands. Slash was one time a member of Guns N Roses. These guys were/are his replacements. It's no different from comparing Steven to Matt or Izzy to Gilby.

Besides, even if VR fans are behaving childish it doesn't make it right for either side to do it.

Seriously Dave, I'd really like to hear your honest opinions without comparing it to Axl/GNR. What do you dislike about each track? Is there anything you like about any of the tracks?

No, it's not because you don't like VR songs, that's just silly.

It's the way you voice your dislike for them in a combative manor, by saying things that are bound to draw fire (not intellegent discussion) like "The Blues blows away such and such" or "Maddy is so much better than whatnot" or "Axl doesn't have anything to worry about" mumbo jumbo.  By the mere comparisons you're objectivity will be in question due to the fact everyone knows your allegiance to Axl and your disgust for everything old band member related.  Honestly, each and every board member knew exactly what your opinions would be before you ever even posted, history proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I'm not bashing you Dave, just an opinion on why your objectivity is constantly questioned.

Dave people attack you not becasue your an Axl fan but becasue you follow up criticism of VR (which your entitled to do) with....Not as good as newGn'R/The Blues or Axls better etc. What has that got to do with wether you like VR or not? All you have to say is - i dont like it becasue i dont like the lyrics or the guitar isnt to my liking - then mabye people would take your opinions with respect.

Well i downloaded FTP and listened to it a couple of times last night, i just had to know what VR's answer to Madagascar and The Blues sounded like.

The song is very good, i like the melody and i also like Scotts singing. The song will do well in the charts, but does not hold a candle to Blues or Maddy. Fact of the matter is im not surprised even though the song was very hyped up, i never expected VR to be able to come up with ballads or 'mid-tempo' songs that were as good as Axl's.

On the other hand i find Slither to be a very good song, i think its the type of song that GnR will have problems coming up with. Its Slash's simple yet catchy riffs make SMF and Slither so good, they are the kind of songs that make a mediocre album good or a good album great.

I'll obviously buy the album when its released, so i reserve my final judgement till then.

P.S      I have made comparisons between VR and GnR because it is inevitable when posting in the VR section of a GnR site.

Well said,,for example Dave,your posts Judging by the VR bootleg,Axl has nothing to worry about and Boycott Contraband. No one is worried about what the other does except you

Falcon, please name the influential acts you are talking about because the Cult sure isn't one of them. And, yes, Gnr overall, are far more critically acclaimed than the Cult. I have never in any poll of greatest albums seen the Cult mentioned-anywhere, alternative press-mainstream press etc. Yes, record sales do matter to a degree. In my opinion, sales plus critical acclaim make you on a higher plain so to say. If cutting edge to you is modern rock and trash like Good Charlotte and Blink and the Foo Fighters and other shit that is played on modern rock radio, then I guess I'm happy with Axl being lumped in with Zep, and the Who and the Stones. If your wondering what I listen to outside of Gnr: is Bob Dylan influential enough for you..or Miles Davis...or Iggy Pop or Radiohead or Hank Williams or U2 or Johnny Cash. Actual   true innovators, not wannabes. If you weren't so damn arrogant and full of shit, I would leave you alone.... ps 1. Close minded is listening to only one type of music or one style of music and constantly putting down other things besides what you like. 2. Axl doesn't have to EVER record another song. His legend is secure just as Rotten's was with his one influential album. Axl is of that stature whereas I would consider Weiland and Astbury as great, but not top shelf so to say. And maybe, just maybe, Axl didn't want to put out four or five albums of inferior product over the last decade, just to make a buck. Maybe he is trying to actually make a truly great record and firmly establish himself as an artist and not just a "rocker". To me, he has never sold out and that is respectable.

Nope.  It's another example of Dave taking something Slash said out of context in the interest of bashing him.

Slash said he got bored playing EPIC songs, not ballads.  He stated very clearly that he liked playing songs that were fast paced because he got bored playing long, drawn out epic songs.  The fact that the epic songs were ballads was coincidental.  He said he used to hate playing "Sweet Child o Mine" because it was a hard and repetitive riff to play, not because it was a ballad.

He did say that he liked "Patience", and said many times that he was proud of "Estranged".

If you're not familar with their pedigree, it my behoove you to do a little research about the post punk and gothic rock movements, you might learn something.  See who's credited with coining the term "goth", it'll surprise you...


I dig the Foos, a hard working band that has great singles, solid albums and tours their ass off.  


I wasn't.


 8)



That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. : ok:



 

I am very familiar with the Cult's "pedigree"-believe me. I actually grew up-late teens early twenties-during that period. Heard it, seen it, done it. How about you? Your what-25 or 26 maybe? I can tell by some of the concerts you claim to have went to. Listen, you are obviously a bright guy-level headed and consistent in your arguments and beliefs. Just lose the attitude and arrogance. The alternative rock/modern rock cool was played way out in the 80's. Now, it is simply shit-of course unless you can find me better bands than REM, the Replacements, the Pixies, Sonic Youth, U2 etc on the radio today. :-\

Then why were you so quick to dismiss their relevence within the genres I mentioned?


A little bit older than that, but thanks though. I'm old enough to remember the Pistols playing the Cains Ballroom in Tulsa, OK (not old enough to get in though)...



I agree, when Nirvana broke in the fall of '91 the alternative became the mainstream.  However, the stereotypes still exist and radio formats and playlists are literally governed by them.

Did this whole thing get started by me saying I like SCOM and Edie?

Damn power ballads...

And for the record, I still don't like Fall To Pieces...

Nah, I just have always had a bug up my ass about alleged alternative rock. Go to college in Athens in 1986 and you will feel my pain. The thing is, I love the alternative scene, always have. I just like the dinosaurs as well and never understood what the difference was between REM and the Byrds or Gnr and Nirvana or The Stones and the Beatles. Always the same means to an end-guitar bass drums keys. Just wrapped in a different package and delivered by different personalties-some more likeable and cool, some more "difficult". In the end they were all saying the same thing. I'm on a crusade ..or I'm just bored because my wife is out of town.

no one does ballads better than axl

but no one comes up with heavy catchy riffs like slash

which is what made GNR the greatest band of all time

now we will have great axl ballads with mediocre guitar a la maddy and the blues  when i hear the blues its missing one element to make it a classic, thats a great guitar solo melody, thats where axl misses slash

same with VR only thing slither and set me free are missing is great lyrics and captivating vocals that only axl is capable of

so both sides will be weakened without the strengths every one brought to the gnr table

scott compares to axl like any gnr guitarist compares to slash

they are good, they are serviceable but not slash and no one can do what slash does, just like no one can do what axl does

ahhh!  Now you've gone and done it!  I'm back to missing the old band again!  :'( :rant:

Where's Izzy? That guy wrote some really interesting songs.....  :yes:

Maybe you've even heard some of them? ;)


/jarmo

You have expressed my feelings. :yes:

I feel I try to be objective, I'm not an Axl maniac, I can well admit his faults, but imo VR is simply okay.

FtP is alright, good song, but not great not truly memorable.  Which I know, is perhaps asking too much.  

Slash's guitar is great on the song, good melody, very fluid.  But I don't know, the song sounds like something any run-of-the-mill band like Creed or Staind could do.  That's harsh I know.  It's a pleasant song, I like listening to it, but once it's gone I won't remember it, put it that way.  Jmo.  


lol, I can kind of relate, I think Weiland is good, but then I download a 1988 Axl performance, and think God, he was really good.  But The Cult?  Love Removal Machine?  That was some good shit.  

freya, as usual, i totally agree with you. I can see all this pretty objectively. I like both bands but VR stuff simply is not as good. HOWEVER, considering they have an energy, an enthusiasm, and a chemistry and a spirit about their music, it sort of all evens out. While i think Blues and Madagascar are definitely much better songs than Fall to Pieces (which, i have to admit, i was disappointed by) and the others, that certainly doesn't mean that VR's songs suck, or the band sucks.  :no:
But D, you are absolutely correct by pointing out how the weaknesses in their respective songs ARE a result of a missing slash/axl.. :-[ what are you gonna do though? can't have everything all the time. The music we have now is definitely good enough, better than half the lame shit out there, and the band's energy and attitude will make up for their somewhat lackluster songs.

I happen to like Scott a lot. I think his voice rules and he is talented and definitely the best man for this position (and of front men available today, one of the best) but when you put him next to Axl.... :no: it's not a knock on Scott, just more evidence of just how good Axl is.

The song rules deal with it  : ok:

my feelings exactely...excellent post

Axl is a genius and a legend,lets get that straight. VR is a great combination with extreme potential and are looking great so far. simple as that people : ok:

Izzy's in Indiana doing donuts, and painting the house...


I sure have.  I'd love to hear more (especially the ones with Adler), but all he ever wants to do is paint houses!  

Can you tell I'm upset over the New York Dolls thing?  :rant:

wasnt taking away from izzy but izzy isnt in GNR or velvet revolver and izzy doesnt play on new gnr or vr

i was just sayin slash's melodies and solo's took axls ballads to a new level and even izzys ballads

and axls lyrics and vocals took gnr and slashs music wttj,scom,coma,locomotive etc etc etc etc to a new level

Daves post, from another forum...


 :hihi:

I disagree, the madagascar solo and the blues solo are better than any solo we have heard thus far from VR.

I hope BHs parts say on CD because they will be better than anything slash has written in VR

Hey booker, why don't you type what the guy wrote before me?
HMMM
OH i forget that would totally ruin your argument now wouldnt it?

Plus that rant does not change the fact I don't bash and name call or THIS board like YOU do and like you are trying  to start doing here.


Its nice to know you have no life where  you bring other peoples posts from other forums.  :rofl:

It just shows how childish you are to try and cause trouble, keep up the good work, you always show  your true colors  : ok:

i'm just here to say one thing and i'm out

if someone at another forum  brought up about stuff from this forum what is wrong with dave responding in that forum...

its not like he shoulda come here and responded to what was said there

he didn't bring stuff from this forum to that forum...
he responded to a post made in that forum

i think any response to what was posted in that forum should be made in that forum

i think the mods would agree
 :peace:

Oh?  So you didnt resort to name-calling?  Because I thought you did, and that totally contradicts the principle on which you built your little morality lecture...guess I was wrong?


Haha, so your principles on name-calling, and how it makes people "look like the idiot" vary from forum to forum, huh?



Is that bashing?  :no:


As childish and trouble-seeking as, say, a boycott?  

So just to be clear, the "name-calling makes one look like an idiot" rule that you take pride in doesnt apply to you?  Or it only applys on this forum?   :confused:

Either way, I wont bash you...in fact, I want to thank you for this impressive display of hypocrisy.  : ok:  And Im sorry to bring a post excerpt from another forum, but after reading Daves staunch stance on name-calling here, and reading that only 5 or so minutes later there...I found it "funny".  Just like I find his defense of "That was another forum," like its not the same exact thing.   :hihi:

Well, Ive proved my point.  Carry on... : ok:

Sorry I disapointed you booker :-*
Sorry If i hurt your feelings
Anyway, lets try and get back on topic and take it to PMs next time please if you want to discuss something I said on another board. The people on this board DONT want to hear it.

How about we end this pointless bickering and get back to the song.

I'm just gonna say that the new music has a vibe and within a few days after june 8th, the songs will prove how good they are. The only reason only a few songs are getting reviews is because unless Scott says what it is or you are a huge fan who knows all the new songs by name off the top of your head no one knows what the band is playing.

I still havent heard a note of the song, and wont until a week from now (Philly : ok:)...

Im excited to hear it, but keeping my expectations reasonable at the same time.  

I agree.

Hell has just frozen over

I was agreeing to lets get back to the song (ie topic) not the 2nd part.

Wow. Maybe Booker can find a discussion about Britney Spears on some forum and bring that over as well?  :P



The intro to that song reminds me of Yesterdays and/or Patience.




/jarmo

 :confused:

Because displaying Daves hilariously direct hypocrisy in this very thread somehow relates to the randomness of Britney Spears?  And I dont believe I brought over a discussion, only a blatant example of his hypocrisy.  The discussion, however, was VR-related...oddly enough, Dave called a VR fan, "a fucking dolt".  And here I thought that was beneath him.   :hihi:

And lets not play up the randomness of another forum...It was "the other" GNR forum...A place I actually rarely check out, but with the VR activity, I check there sometimes to see what people are saying.  So what a coincidence that I happen to see Dave say something like that...

An objective opinion here, by my understanding, hypocrisy is a trait in a human that transcends whatever forum, platform or place a person is voicing his opinion.  It's an inherent way of conducting oneself in regards to their everyday thoughts and feelings, lives for that matter.

Was the manner in which this information brought to light a bit questionable?  Maybe so.

Does the information brought to light with this revelation reflect undisputable evidence and validitation of a constant contradiction and true hypocrisy of somesone who continually portays himself and his character as the total opposite?

Absolutely.  

Beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Topic related, I burned the Minny show earlier, left off FTP and Used to Love Her...

Booker are you still on this? Get over it and take it to a PM
Why didn't you post all the bashing toward me before posting my post? HMM
And how am I a hypocrite? As hard as you try and bash me or try to bait me into a fight, you still can't get me to bash or call you names.
That must really bother you eh?

Mygnr forum is known for bashing and such, this forum I dont do it since its part of the rules.
Too bad you cant follow them.

Well I think this thread is too far gone for any more objective opinions, but for what it's worth...

I agree with what D said earlier about Axl missing Slash, and Slash missing Axl. It's evident in the work that we've seen from both parties thus far. If you think the "solo" from Madagascar (by all accounts an otherwise great song) is better than that of Slither or You Got No Right, then you need to clean the wax out of your ears.

In the same way that the lyrics to songs like Set Me Free and Slither are nowhere near as good as what Axl produced on the likes of Locomotive and Don't Damn Me (the 2 best Axl/Slash collaborations ever IMO).

There are definitely gaps in either party that can be filled by the missing element, but as a long time GNR fan, I am at least willing to give a band that features 2 fifths of that original line-up a chance, as opposed to writing them off altogether, no matter how good their material is, and how much attention they are currently garnering from the rock world.

Again, it's my opinion that what we've heard thus far from VR is better than what we've heard from "new" GNR (if you can still call it "new"). Madagascar is a good song, it could be great if it had a decent solo, The Blues is a good solid song, but by no means a memorable classic, and I can't stand Chinese Democracy; that song is worthless.

I just hope that everyone that calls themselves a Guns N' Roses fan can go out in a couple of weeks, pick up a copy of Contraband (assuming you don't intend to boycott it), and listen to and enjoy some of the best rock music we've heard in recent years, from a group featuring no less than three ex-GNR members.

Likewise with Chinese Democracy, if and when it ever gets released.

It's all good.

Again another person who needs to look up the word subjective.
I think you need to understand not everyone has the same taste in music as you.

Hey, I stated quite clearly that my words were borne of my opinion

I don't expect everyone to agree with it, but at the same time, I don't expect people to come into the VR section of the forum and needlessly stir up shit.

LOL. Bro its been liek that for years on all these gnr boards. Get fukin used to it. stop crying already. We are a few months in and your already upset over this...

if you need any help in getting through it let me know..i can help...there are many different stages...its just 1 big cycle. Relax the pary just started....


i love how things in life come full circle

lol

Cool beans dude, I've only been posting on this board and a couple of others on and off for little over a year now, so I've probably missed alot of threads dealing with this same thing over and over again...

I've just got annoyed in the last couple of weeks with some of the topics started in this section, with no intent other than to rile VR fans (well, perhaps not, but that's what it seems to me sometimes  :confused:)

Guess I'll get used to it eventually, as you say...

Point well taken dude. and its ashame. But the reason all of this exists is because peopel who had no intentions other than to "hate" new gnr have corrupted the boards over the years. Its only natural now cause u get used to it over time. But what comes out of all that is the new gnr fan simply bringingup the same stuff the "haters" bring up...the only difference is for the most part the peopel who are "roaming" the vr boards are just giving thier opinions on the music vr has and not so much their image, the way they shit, their ethics, and all that other stuff....

im just finding all of this funny though...i wasnt expecting this....

yea it sux and its ashame..negativity partly created by the band but mostly do to "fans"...what ya gonna do

Yeah sorry to break up this little girl slap fight but getting back on point.
This song kicks ass.......it's one of those prom last dance type songs but I love it.  Definitely gonna be a smash on the radio.  Slash's solo is the shit but Scott nails the song perfectly.  The one thing though, is it just me or does Slash really get off on this D-C-G shit on his ballads?

it's the "I IV V mighty super fantastic rock combo" that has been the basis for rock n roll since the dawn of time. the I IV V in this case just happen to be the same chords in sweet child o mine. Countless songs have been made on those 3 chords of a particular key simply because they sound good.

but yeah the reason Slash goes off is because it is really easy to make solo's over such progressions, and trust me......hell even i can go nuts over simple progressions like that. It's rock n roll i tell you!  :peace:

Sweet child O' Mine, Yesterdays, that unreleased song from Estranged, this one, etc

Is that "unreleased" song not what eventually became Snakepit's "Back and Forth Again?" That song is based around the whole D-C-G thing...

Skynyrd's Sweet Home Alabama is another rock classic that uses that chord sequence, as is Boston's "More Than a Feeling."  8)

i've got to say, i like the song. but like many have said, the hype was SO much that it left me underwhelmed.

and like someone said near the beginning of this thread - choruses! choruses everywhere! scott seems to have a tendency of making the end of the song chorus heavy, has anyone else noticed that? i mean, they couldve had a nice outro or taken the melody further at the end, but instead they just repeat the chorus! argh!

dont get me wrong i love this vr stuff. but, i always get the feeling that without axl they dont push themselves enough to improve a song even more (that make sense?! - particularly true with izzy i feel) i just felt this song couldve/shouldve gone somewhere at the end, but it didnt. its too formulaic. a lot of the new songs are predictable in sttructure, u know?

BUT, i still love the songs. its just a kind of frustration that i feel. i mean, im gonna miss the layering i think, and that little bit extra that it appears axl made them add (although it appears that this is not what the band liked, but it is wot i like)

I totally agree but any second now you will be labeled an axl nutswinger for saying somehting liek this....and then you will be givent the good ol " Vr just want to keep it simple and rock, its not meant to be complicated" that type of thing.....

Thats how I basically feel about the material...a lot of it is the same type of stuff...its good just not special i guess...and im looking for special because this could have been a special band...plus on the songs that are excellent{like ftp} there good but like you said missing that somehting extra....

ill wait till i hear the album but if i have the same overall impression/feelings then I will beleive even more of what axl says when he says slash has all the talents just never want to go that xtra mile stuff...but who cares thats old news...

Just listened to it work. Loved it.... The guitar riff is pretty cool. Still a boot so the sound wasn't great but a couple people here said that they like it. They all like Set Me Free , Money and love Slither too. Gotta run, talk more about it later...

You also said that anyone who doesnt agree should get the wax taken out of their ears. Am I wrong about that? That is not being subjective.

Get back to discussing the song.  : ok:



/jarmo

THANK YOU......I thought i was the only one who thought it was back and forth again.........  that song is awesome btw..

Why the fuck do you keep comparing this shit to the new GnR. You are really obsesses with Axl and it is scary. Everything revolves around Axl and it really makes you look like an asshole. Why not compare it to Led Zeppelin or Black Sabbath or Britney Spears for that matter. None of them are VR. If you dont like the fucking song fine, but why do you always have to throw in how Axl is better?

It's the same fucking announcer. Who gives a shit, just another person that was around the whole mess that couldnt stay with your lover.

No one is slamming anyone for their opinions!! There are other people here that don't like or have negative stuff to say about these VR tunes. They don't get bothered. It's just the annoying and pathetic way he goes about it. He ends up turning every post into a Axl n' Dave verse VR or Slash against Axl. Look at all teh shit he is talking about in this post. HEY JARMO, I was banned before for "not staying on topic". Well it's obviously ok for Dave since you share the same Axl views as him...

Well you little girls might as well have this topic locked and go on with your internet fight elsewhere............getting BACK ON TOPIC......this song wasn't all i thought it was when i first heard it.........I still like the vibe but it's nothing spectacular....good song though.

and remember.....arguing on the internet is like participating in the special olympics......even if you win, you're still retarded.!!!!!!!!!

Thank the redhead for that. I have said it a million times. The comparisons wouldn't be hardly as much if he wasn't calling the band GnR.

lol, funny post. You are right..  For the most part there is only opne person that everyone is argueing. Like I said I could care less if someone doesn't like VR. It' sthe way certain people or (person) come across just trying to antagonise people. There is definately a problem here but the moderators are obviously bias. You can see this by the constant defending. Honestly, I like Dave and Jarmo but juts as Dave is always defending Axl's evry little action it seems that Jarmo has been doing the same for Dave..

BACK ON TOPIC   : ok:

I finally heard the song last night. It i sa boot and I have the crappiest little speakers here at work. We actually converted the internal speaker to play music. Anyway, from what I could here it sounded pretty cool and I loved the riff. Couldn't really hear the lyrics. It also got a positive comment from one of my co-workers who said he will buy the album. BTW everyone here likes Slither and someone else here is gonna burn the disc when he can. He burns everything. I wish I could burn a boot to listen to in my car....

And you're still got problems with it even after I told everybody to get back to discussing the song. ::)



/jarmo

Just heard the studio version and it kicks ass..........same as performed live.......this song does kick ass....the guitar tone is really close to yesterdays.

STUDIO??? HOW?

Thats the exact same thing I was thinking when I first heard this song.  I knew I heard it before, and realised it was from the Estranged making of the videos.  Of course I thought I would scroll through the threads before posting it as my own discovery.  Sure enough, someone caught it before myself.  People are so on top of things here.