Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Former Guns N' Roses Members Fight for Control of Songs

Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses ruled rock in the '80s with hits like "Sweet Child of Mine" and "Paradise City." The original band members parted ways in 1995, but now, former band mates Slash, whose real name is Saul Hudson, and Duff McKagan are suing Rose, claiming he ripped them off to the tune of at least a million dollars.

Duff and Slash now have a new band called Velvet Revolver, and are about to go on tour. But they're bound to have some things on their mind -- mainly the lawsuit against their former front man which pertains to who controls the rights to old Guns N' Roses hits.

In the suit, Duff and Slash claim Rose doesn't have any controlling interest in the songs, but they say he killed deals that would have put their tunes in a half dozen movies, including "Just Married," "We Were Soldiers," "Death to Smoochie" and "Old School."

And you won't hear the band's huge hit, "Welcome to the Jungle" in the movie "Blackhawk Down," because, according to the lawsuit, Axl wouldn't let the producers use it. Instead, he wanted to re-record it, thereby allegedly cheating his ex-band mates out of the licensing fee.

David Powell runs "The Music Bridge," a company that deals with music rights for movies. According to Powell, "Licensing is very important for any band or any artist that gets out there in popular culture."

In Powell's business, when the movies come calling, most bands seem eager to participate, since, "There are many income streams that can be generated from the songs, as well as the master recordings, for years and sometimes generations to come."

source: http://celebrityjustice.warnerbros.com/news/0405/03a.html (http://celebrityjustice.warnerbros.com/news/0405/03a.html)

Is this for real?  Or is this old?  I kind of actually have respected Axl's decisions not to let just anybody use their songs.  

The article has today's date and mentions VR's upcoming tour so it's new.

From what that article says, if true, it sounds like they might almost have a legitimate gripe. Axl may own the name, but all of their names are on the songs from the back catalog.  You would have to think in that type of situation majority would rule if they could get everyone outside of Axl to sign on to something. They obviously would not be bringing suit if some legal type had not told them they would have a reasonable chance of winning. Should be interesting to say the least.

And before the Axl-zealots get too wild, they are suing for control over the songs, not Axl using the names or songs. That is not at issue, I can already here the "Well they should have never quite the band, they should have never signed the rights to the name over." Those are not the issues at hand so please don't give us the normal schpeel.

Nope, this is for real. Its about an hour old. Pretty sad really. I think this is just a waste of time. They should be concentrating on their on band. I guess this will halt CD even longer.

whoa. :o

It doesn't sound stupid at all. Axl would be and has done the same thing to others when legal action was an available recourse. If you can use the courts to your advantage why not.

Although I think its safe to say if he ends up losing this one he may throw in the towel because he would have to release something new as he would not be the only one with access to the back catalog and I think that would just eat at him. And he is obviously not mentally prepared to release an album anytime soon.

Hopefully they will be able to settle this out of court.

How many lawsuits can one redhead be involved in?   :nervous:

I agree with Freya about being picky in which movies you allow your music to be heard.  But this part bothers me:


See, Axl wasn't against the song being in the movie, per se, he just wanted to eliminate all traces of the guys who actually wrote it with him.  Now I have a problem with that.   :rant:

I'm just wondering why Slash & Duff chose to do this now.  There should have had plenty of occasions to bring up this issue before.

Interesting...

Well, the legalities of their contracts will determine this one.  If Slash and Duff no longer have the rights, then its solely Axls call.  If they do, then the suit will prove so.  Just have to wait and see.

Interesting timing to say the least, VR's doing everything right, even their lawsuits...

Don't know if they've got a leg to stand on, but the VR publicity machine is working overtime getting them out there...

Lawsuits included..

I am so tired of all this VR/Slash/duff versus Axl bullshit.

I can't believe this crap is still going on.

This is supposed to be about music, not money/law/lawyers

Why can't everyone get on with it. Neither side need the money for fucks sake.

@#$%Muther

I guess it's safe to say we won't be seeing a reunion anytime soon. It's a shame, a damn shame.

Ok.  I guess this means that Axl won't be on the Behind The Music.


Things just keep getting worse for Axl.  This sucks. :no:

Classless move by the old members on the dawn of their new band.


Moving on? yeah right.

This is a fight for control of GnR because this will inevitably come down to who owns the gnr name. If axl loses, he stands to lose millions and perhaps the right to use the name GnR.

We may never see a GnR release if the redhead loses.

Slash and Duff are ASSHOLES! One last parting shot to tack onto the BTM feature that will no doubt skewer Axl Rose and take away his livelihood.

Take away his livlihood? Huh?

HE owns the name.

HE is the only one allowed to tour under the name GNR.

HE is the only one allowed to record and release under the name GNR.

Take away his livlihood?

Puh-leaze.


Disclaimer: Not taking sides here in the least, just pointing out the utter goofiness of the above post.

nice sarcasm falcon, jerk.

they are attacking axl's position as controlling interest in the band. This is a huge attack on his ownership of the GnR name. with a simple ruling a judge could proclaim that axl does not have exclusive rights to the catalog and name. Ergo, he must repay the old members for lost monies, monies that axl never received himself since he shot down the deal, as well as declare that the ownership of the name isn't axls. This is huge.

No need for name calling.


********

What goes around comes around.

Haha maybe they'll all be in court together.........does that count as a reunion?

I don't think it'll affect Axl much. Certainly not his livlihood. And I don't think it's gonna lead to any GN'R name battles.

I just don't understand the timing of this. They've got a new album which will rock, and it's been years since they split.

The only thing I can think of is that lately a lot of songs have been refused for soundtracks costing them a lot of money. That would be understandable I suppose, although you could argue how important that money actually is with all the money they'll be making/already are making.

Whatever..... it should never have got anywhere near this situation. It's sad that we are actually use to this sort of thing anyway.

@#$%Muther

Good enough for me  ;D

Nice name calling, .....

Sure it's huge, but it hardly takes away his livlihood for cryin' out loud.  

He can still record, release and tour under the GNR banner, all avenues to produce income and provide a livlihood for the poor fella.

Hell, even if he lost the rights to the brand name "GNR" (which seems not to be in question within the parameters of this lawsuit) he could still record, release and tour under whatever name he pleases, thus providing a livlihood.

It's not like they're suing to take away the rights to use his vocal chords for crissakes...

DAMN !!

okay, i just got done bashing axl and sticking up for vr on the whole BTM thing, now im gonna switch sides for shits and giggles. It may be a good thing axl is not letting all of these movies carry gn'r songs, some of them were pretty bad movies. If slash had his way, we would be seeing gn'r on the "queer eye for the straight guy" soundtrack, or something else that isn't really "GN'R"

even if i concede that my initial reaction was exaggerated, this is still a classless, bitter action which is designed as a footnote for the end of BTM GnR.

Well, I'll say.  They are all millionaires, they don't need to make money by putting their music in dumb movies and commercials.  I guess Slash and Duff are thinking long term or something.  It's just that I thought inroads had been made when the guys united in that suit against Universal.  This?  Will set Axl off majorly.  

If Slash and Duff's goal is to make me lose respect for them, they're doing a wonderful job. I've always said (even though I support him) that Axl's ego is the reason for old GNR's breakup, but these guys have two big ones of their own. Fuckin a.

This is nothing more than a business move (and a great opportunity to drive Axl nuts if your Slash and Duff) and no one can really blame them. If they have no case, a judge will immediately throw it out. If it turns out that Axl's veto control over all uses of the songs is cut down because they all equally own the songs, than that is the way it should be because they all did participate in the creation of them. This in no way effects Axl's future ability to use the GNR name and release albums and tour with it, so it really isn't that big a deal. Like I said, if there has been no harm committed by Axl there will be no foul. Something tells me though that someone has been combing those contracts with a fine tooth comb recently and that person thinks they have a very legitimate case if they are going through all this trouble. Should be very interesting to see this develop. Also, I think it is ingenious that Slash/Duff are doing anything and everything to create controversy and get their name out there. I am almost beginning to believe they were the brains behind the operation in GNR's first rise to fame as they seem to have a great knack for impeccable PR promotion.

 
I could see suing him if he put songs in movies and they didn't get paid.  But to sue because he didn't put songs in movies??  Aren't our courts filled with enough frivilous lawsuits already?

I don't think "brains" has anything to do with it, Slash and Duff have always just made themselves accessible and the controversy is built in.  It's good timing.  

Smishkey-

Not frivilous at all. If they all own equal share of the songs, and 3 or 4 out of 5 want to use something, then there is a legal issue about whether they should be allowed to use it or not. In the past they have just always lived with Axl vetoing any proposed use of the songs, they are now challenging whether he can legally do that or not. This isn't an issue about the GNR name, but actual ownership of the songs, which is somewhat independent of that. It is like controlling shares of a company. If they all own equal shares of the songs, which in this case represent a company, then there is definitely an issue about who controls the songs and how they are used. That is a completely different issue than who owns the band name, which is going uncontested. What is the worst that happens, a judge says a majority vote of the 5 is all that is needed to OK something? Democracy is a good thing. A judge will decide if Axl legally has final Veto power, which someone has obviously told Slash and Duff recently that he doesn't, and with the re-newed interest in the back catalog the issue of who can use the songs and when has higher stakes than ever.

it's not ingenious it's classless. Slash and Duff have said how they are moving on with this new project but are not above squeezing monies out of axl. They could have settled this issue long ago, but low and behold  a short time before the release of their new single/album here is news that this lawsuit has been filed.  It's frivality is without question but designed to serve as a footnote to BTM and numerous articles about the band as they were "clearly swindeled by the vindictive axl rose". All bullshit.

This suit exposes them as the hypocrites they are.

Amen, brother :yes:

maybe thats whats holdin chinese democracy up

Haha. Now THATS a funny post.

Whoa. To think slash n' duff are the cause behind another CD delay instead of axl.

Isn't it ironic? A little tooooo ironic. Yes I really do think. It's like raaaiiin on your wedding day! It's the free riii-eeee-iide that you just wouldn't take, and who.... ok i'll stop singing alanis morisette now. :smoking:

LOL not unless they sing.

Or maybe somebody explained to them that they deserve just as much rights to those songs as ole Axl. They probably signed everything in a haste to begin with.

They do deserve equal.

Killingvector you really are a sheep. It is incredibly obvious Axl screwed them out of untold millions when he took the GnR name. The guy probably sits around in his mansion doing valium all day, squelching any and all liscencing deals that involve the old band.

He was great, emphasis on was, now hes just a paranoid idiot ruining it for everyone, most of all the fans who really want to hear the new stuff.

Am I the only one to see the humour in all this? I mean first of all they are like kids. Constantly sniping at each other. Then when it hits the boards, it gets really funny. Ex-member says something against Axl, the Axl people damn near shit themselves in anger. Axl says something about an ex-member, the ex-members fans near piss thier panties to defend em.

Bottom line, they are all grown men. They are not gods, they are not immortal, they are human. I sometimes wonder about people whose live seem to revolve around the band.

To me, being in a band is like a buissiness and if you quit the buissiness,your out and who ever's still in has a say. Being Axl is still in the band and he's the only dude from the first two albums, IMO he can do as he pleases,  
Slash n' Duff are still getting paid for the stuff but they quit.To me that means they want nothing to do with future plans.
Why now!! >:(

Fuck those greedy bastards

U have just witnesses the end of any possibility of a future reunion

If Axl didn't despise them before - he does now

Well done Slash! Guess he's lost confidence in VR and feels he needs money from elsewhere.....

Well done Slash! Guess he's lost confidence in VR and feels he needs money from elsewhere.....
[/quote

Slash n' Duff never made much money outside of GNR, so they team up n' start a band and spread the word"we're lookin' for a singer!!!!"
n' now this ::)

Maybe 'One in a Million'?

I have a feeling Slash and Duff are probably not the most legally savvy people in the world.  After all these years, some lawyer pointed out to them that they have the right to collect royalties on the old GNR songs, since they had a hand in writing them; obviously they're going to want to collect.  And I hope they win this lawsuit.  GNR belongs as much to them as it does to Axl, and who the fuck does Axl think he is walking around like Jesus Christ, like he was the be-all and end-all of this band??  Can anyone here give a good reason why Slash, Duff, and anyone else involved in GNR (the real GNR that is) shouldn't have a say in how the old songs are used?  You know, they could have benefited tremendously from having a "Welcome to the Jungle" used in "Blackhawk Down."  It was their song, and Axl's too.  It belongs to all of them!  Why the hell should Axl alone decide how these songs are used?  I just think Slash and Duff are sick and tired of Axl's bullshit once and for all and probably do want to screw him over.  Fine; Axl's shitted on these guys one times too many, enough is enough.  While I would prefer to see them all getting along, Axl made that impossible a long time ago.  Slash, Duff, and all the other GNR members (again, the REAL Gunners, not the mindless idiots Axl has playing with him now) deserve to benefit financially from their legacy.  Fuck you Axl for trying to screw them out of what is rightfully theirs.

now that  would be funny :hihi:

it sucks that nobody in the parties can act like adults, hopefully they settle out of court.  I mean there are somethings a GNR song would fit in, but then you dont want to licence out GNR songs from the back catalog to everybody who comes asking for the song.  But hey I guess its buisness, they are talking about large sums of money  :-[

peace :peace:

I agree!  Just imagine, someone screwing you out of shit loads of money, and it might not even be about the money.  Principles for one.

Put yourselves in Slash's and Duff's position.

that would be fun  ;D

Hey Conny, want me to shove my arm up your ass?

Edit: Want me to ban your ass? /jarmo

Im Glad there doing it dont let axl get away with eveything

PEOPLE AXL IS NOT!!!! GUNS N ROSES!!! New fans u know shit fair play
all u do is bitch

guns n roses are no more axl's gone for good now

slash and duff deserve to play what songs thay like ! guns n roses wouldent of been what thay are with out slash duff and izzy steve not so much no axl
anyone could of frounted them and we would know the difference now
we'd just like somone else!  : ok: :beer:

well..I wouldn't blame Slash & Duff too much 'cause of fighting for their rights.

You lot are amazing.

This is clearly a move by VR because they have once again run out of money to fund their project.

Someone needs to find the quote from Slash stating that the reason for all the delays with VR is because they ran out of cash.

And now they are suing Axl for the tune of one mil?  Sounds like they want Axl to fund their tour.

What a bunch of double talkin' jive motherfuckers Slash and Duff are.  First, they claim how they have moved on.

What did Slash just say in Guitar world just last week?  "Anything that happens between Axl and I is personal".

Slash is a nutcase.  Duff is an idiot.

Give it a rest.  Leave Axl alone.  You stupid fucks left HIM.  

Get off the heroin/crack pipe and see reality. :rant:

This is a major power play on the part of Slash and Duff. You guys bicker back and forth when in reality, in the end, everyone involved is a rich spoiled rock star. THEY ARE ALL AT FAULT FOR THE LAWSUITS-THE BREAKUP-EVERYTHING. Get over it. These people are not your best friends!!! This is a big business and when $$ is involved, people become bitter and greedy. Axl has driven the brand name GNR in to the dirt. Slash and Duff were too stoned and stupid to realize the mistake they made when they signed the name over. Everyone has fucked this thing up. It is a stereotypical cliched played out rock and roll fiasco. Although I think Axl will win, if by chance he loses, you have the potential to see him forced in to using a new band name-which is probably good in my opinion at this point. This is just too comical, but could turn deadly serious if a Judge rules he doesn't control the brand name and rights. :-\

I'd forgotten about their money probs but ur right - there was a big thig a while back about them running out of dosh and having to fire their damn assiatnt cos they couldn't afford to pay em

This is a cyncial way to pay for their tour and get some free publicity

I hope Axl buries them - this is a very sad day to be a GNR fan.

Huh?   Nooo.. You got it wrong.  Lemme explain... Currently they ALL have rights to the songs.   WITH THIS LAWSUIT THEY ARE TRYING TO TAKE AWAY AXL'S RIGHTS.  

So fuck THEM!!!!

I hate to admit this but i'm kinda curious to see what the decision will be. Like Axl said at VMA 2002, this has not been done before, to change virtualy every band member, new roadies, new producers, new mixers...............

In reality Guns N' Roses should play Guns N' Roses songs, and Velvet Revolver should play Velvet Revolver songs. Slash and Duff chose to leave Axl high and dry, If the Anaheim Mighty Ducks won the cup this year, could Paul Kariya celebrate with 'em? NO FUCKIN' WAY.

And about the movies, besides Black Hawk Down they all sucked.

I hope slash and duff crush axl!!
he needs a wake up call  :beer:

What a bunch of crying ass bitches Slash and Duff have become... WTF??? Im fucking glad the GnR music is not in those fucking movies they listed... THEY FUCKING SUCKED!!!!

A rerecorded WTJ by the new band would have been awsome... and FUCK YOU SLASH and DUFF for blocking it.. ITS NOT YOUR BAND ANYMORE MOTHERFUCKERS!!! YOU QUIT!!! YOU RECIEVE ROYALTYS FROM THE SONGS ALREADY FOR THE PARTS YOU WROTE!!! Now fuck off already....
 
YOU HAVE YOUR OWN NEW BAND NOW MOTHERFUCKERS .. WORRY ABOUT THAT NOT GUNS N ROSES.....

Those motherfuckers piss me the fuck off... I was going to buy thier new CD ...but not now.. ill fucking download it or burn it from someone....

I guess they see that thier new songs are not as strong as they hoped... They had the chance to have a good new band if they had picked a good singer like Josh Todd .. Scott Weiland is a fucking dumb fuck fuck up who is a shitty ass singer as well..

They "are moving on" as they say and all the VR fans have said.. "They dont need GnR anymore"...

BULLSHIT! Thats why they fucking sue over the GNR songs, make a BTM special all within a month of their new album...


and opening the tour in St Louis is another fucking classy move... I can see the reviews for that show..."Last time they were in St Louis red headed front man punched a fan and a riot ensued, Now they are back with a new lineup and a new front man".... blah blah blah....

 I was going to back the VR and hope they did well but now no.. and all you motherfuckers who say "VR doesnt need GnR to sell thier music" can go fuck yourself....

No wonder they need the old GnR songs... With songs like "Slither" or "Be the Ball" (hahah remember that shit)

That Contraband album will be a big dissapointment for you people that suck Slash and Duff and Matt's dick and bash Axl... Coz it will suck... Its going to be a piece of shit... The only good songs will be the ones that Izzy Wrote...

Slash is good at writing Solos and Riffs thats it.. His lyric writing is worse than fucking Hanson...

Izzy and Axl wrote all the good lyrics...

Now go ahead you mother fuckers and tell me who the fuck is moving on...

Who is Suing Who here.... Who shows up at the others concerts?? and goes to the press with it????  not W Axl Rose... hes got his own band now...

Izzy's efforts don't feature on the album - maybe he will sue them for lost earnings :hihi:


Coma..........

Overal i agree with most of what u said (But not the language, c'mon no one's died)

He didn't TAKE shit from anyone.   :rant:
They can whine and bitch and moan about it now...
They blew it.  Case closed.

Axl fuckin' PAID good money for it...
money that THEY ingested into their persons in the form of various toxins, no doubt.

THIS LAWSUIT IS BULLSHIT!  they all have rights to the shit they wrote/created together.  What the fuck makes them think they can TAKE AWAY AXL'S RIGHTS?

FUCK THAT
FUCK THIS!
THIS MEANS WAR!

PEOPLE GROW UP!!!

WHO CARES WHAT ANYONE DOES ITS NOTHING TO DO WITH US
U SWAR ITS THE END OF THE WORLD!!!

110%  agree!! : ok:

ITS NOT AXL OR DUFF, SLASH WHO ARE WRECKING THE GOOD NAME OF GUNS N ROSES ITS U LOT STOP BITCHING AND GET ON WITH YOUR OWN LIFES
GO OUT GET A GIRLFRIEND GO OUT WITH YOUR MATES

DUFF AND SLASH ARE GOOD GUYS, AXL ON THE OTHER HANDS ALRIGHT WHEN HE WANTS TO BE BUT JUST LEAVE IT THERE  : ok:  :peace:

Without Izzy their case is even MORE RIDICUOUS!!!

And just how did/does Axl "shit on them"?

THEY LEFT THE BAND. Case closed.  And they got paid on top of it for the name... and continue to make royalties and have continued with their careers unhampered.

FUCK THEM!

If Axl was suing them, then I suppose he'd be the good guy, eh?
If Axl had sued them YOU KNOW he'd be called an asshole.
I AM SO LOOKING FORWARD TO WATCHING THIER LAWSUIT CRASH AND FUCKING BURN - THOSE BITTER FUCKING LOSERS!

A couple of people have said this

Not sure where u got it from - Matt mentions nothing about getting paid for it and neither did Slash - there stories basically state Axl ask them to sign a contract that if they were to ever leave they forfeited their claim on the GNR name.

I don't think money was involved, it was all signed when the band was happily together

(I wonder if Steven and Izzy surrendered their claim on the name...)

Lets all fuck axl thats all we seem to do on here  : ok:

aww axl baby u loser take me man

chilish i know but thats all i c on here

slash and duff losers well um...... well see!!

people hide behind the guns n roses name  :peace:

That's just too bad...it's supposed to be about music, not lawsuits. Plus, besides Black Hawk Down, all the other movies they wanted GN'R's music in basically sucked.
I don't really like how those guys handle their promotion...I'm ok with the David Letterman/ MTV2 premiere shit but a lawsuit against Axl in the meantime is just weird. To me that's a bad move but we'll see.

Btw Izzy, Slash did NOT write the lyrics for "Coma", Axl did. Slash wrote the music for that song.

for Jarmo: you got there ten seconds before me... ;)

Don't rule out that this is just a publicity stunt! Remember Axl got a lot of press suing Universal over the Greatest Hits release. Even though he lost, he generated a lot of publicity which probably sold more records. Duff & Slash might be trying to get the public to understand that they are "GNR too" in hopes that the same people that bought the Greatest Hits will buy Contraband.

me too... me too...

Axl is busy with his lawsuit against Clear Channel, Finding a new guitar player, Fighting with his record label...

now these bitter loosers come back looking for some handouts....

I find this to be a tacky way to sell a record... They should let the new music speak for itself... not GnR's old music.... If they are in fact as they claim "a new band"

Its true, the whole situation is too bad, but in fairness, "GNR" has been more about lawsuits than music for 10 years now - this case is just one more in a ridiculously long line of them.


Well, thats a different matter...


Dont you think its a little presumptuous to assume that this is a promotion tactic?


Slash didnt write any of the lyrics, did he?  So the original statement (pertaining to VRs new record) is false.

 :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace: :peace:

can we all just foget it and get on with are own lifes

They do collect royalties, I think.  All the old band members do, they just don't have a say on how their old songs are used for commercial purposes.  Which could generate earnings 20 years down the road.  

Axl would screw them out of money by rerecording Appetite songs and using them.  Then again, I know he feels they abandoned him, so that's his mindset.

Anyway, the whole thing is sad.  Like Axl said, every young person should take business classes, even if you're going to be an artist.  I'm sure Duff realized a whole bunch of things when he was studying finance.  

Or We Can Settal This Over A Pint ;)

haha no! Guns n Roses is Life and Axl Rose is god!!!!

Man u need to get out more! thats just sad if u put a band before your own life
i love em but i got my own life and it aint guns n roses its mine to live

Axl owning the name GN'R gives him the right to decide what projects that name is associated with.

Well ill leave u to all this bitching about shit  : ok:
i bet your all making more of this than what it is, its ethier untrue or
slash and duff have a good reason why! at the end of the day none of us
know what realy happened between them all only thay do
so at the end of the day dont bitch abotu somthing u know nothing about
some of u have an idea but most of u just think axls god but cant even get anything out in 9 years
sounds really godly

anyways  :peace: peeps

From Drowned in Sound.com

"Slash, Duff McKagan, and Matt Sorum left the group in 1996, and Axl Rose purchased the Guns'N'Roses name from the other founder members for ?2.4million in 1997. "

nice... looks like he should come out of this ok... how much is 2.4million pounds? in american dollars?

And Axl Rose Buys "Guns N' Roses" Name (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=7) - January, 1997


I don't know how it works since they always say Axl tricked them into signing over the name during the UYI tour. What did he buy in 1997 if he already controlled the name since the early 90s?  ???


/jarmo

I've read before that he didn't get them to sign over the name, he just had them sign a contract which said he would get the rights to the name if they ever left the band.  Maybe that included him having to pay them out for it, which would explain why they were so willing to sign a document like that in the first place.

Either way, I'm convinced the "Slash side" of the story, of Axl tricking them into giving up the rights to the name by refusing to perform one night is not the whole story.

What is everyone so hot and bothered for??? ??? ??? If they have no case, the judge will just throw it right out. What 9 out of 10 of you don't realize is that the ownership of the songs has nothing to do with the ownership of the name. I think there is an intense fear and paranoia on this board that these guys may have a legitimate case and that Axl may lose the right of final Veto, which is what he currently has. If it is frivilous, a judge will throw it out faster than Axl can fire a band member. But what if that doesn't happen? What if these guys actually win? What is everyone going to do then?


ANd btw, the timiing is coincidental given all the time they've had, but the reason this is happening now is because of the over whelming success of greatest hits. I am not sure anyone involved with GNR realized the potential the back catalog had, so now there is some serious scrambling going on to see who has the right to use it and for what purpose. This has more to do with 20 years from now than it does today. Slash/Duff own a large majority of a gold mine, were they to secure the rights to excersise their right to use s product they own an equal share in minus Axl's consent, there are significant earnings opportunities out there. Who can really blame them.

Not presumptuous at all, in my opinion. Slash and Duff have had plenty of time to do this if they wanted to, yet they decide to do it now, a mere month away from their new band's album release? ::)

200% agree  :)

Okay so we can have Welcome to the Jungle on a soundtrack but not under the name Guns N? Roses?

I'm "hot and bothered", because as far as I can tell, this is a shitty move on the part of Slash and Duff.  I was really excited about VR, and I'm going to their May 15th show, and I don't like reading about this kind of shit.


Of course.  If anyone has a differing opinion from your own, obviously it's due to "fear and paranoia".   ::)


I don't understand the exact legalties of a case like this, but I don't see why they would have any right to say whether the songs are used in any way, regardless of miss opportunities.  Of course, they should get the royalties for songs they've written, but they choose to leave the band, and no longer be a part of the entity which owns the rights to the songs.  What they want or wish would happen has nothing to do with the legal reality of a situation like this.

As far as the timing, you have a good point about the Greatest Hits, but considering how shmucky of a move this is, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some promotional thought behind it as well.

There is so much irony here. slash and duff are suing for about a million dollars, essentially they want axl's advance for CD to fund their own tour. They are suing axl for money that doesn't exist. It's not like axl took money from them; he simply refused to use the songs in movies, thus no profit was made. If someone walks away from a band, legally....and it was legal or the old guys would have overturned the contract, then their controling rights are released.

The old guys have received royalties for their old gnr songs; axl isn't impinging on that. Hell, as my friend Saul pointed out, Ozzy once re-recorded two albums so the old members of his solo band couldn't profit from the sale of the old pressings. Axl could be a bitch and do that, but he hasn't. He simply has exercised discretion in licensing use of the gnr catalog. As the sole owner of the Guns N Roses business, he has that right. He has controlling interest over those songs. He doesn't own them, because royalties are still being distributed, but he is the CEO of the GnR company and as such has the final decision of how the songs are used.

As for the matter of how the old guys left, I recall the same story mentioned above. Axl made them sign a contract saying if they ever left the band, the parting member would sell their rights to Axl. The old guys left and axl paid them out. End of story.

agree : ok:

This is the whole issue of the lawsuit, whether he has controlling interest or not. If Slash/Duff/Izzy/Steve want to put a song on something that is 80% of the company voting one way, that makes up a majority. In the past Axl has just decided he has final veto power in name only, but if he is not in the majority vote of the share holders, he may not have that right. That is the whole issue of the lawsuit, and that is what a judge will rule on. If they all own enough of the songs to get 51% of a vote minus Axl on whether to use something or not, there is a very good chance Axl could be in for a world of hurt because he would effectively have zero control over the back catalog from here on out. And that has to scare the living bejesus out of him and every axl-zealot.

If they really did sell all of their rights, won't a judge just throw this right out and tell them to get a life? Why is anyone even concerned then? :nervous:

I am not concerned at all. ;D

They are not 80% of anything Guns n Roses related anymore.. They quit... They recieve royalties from the music they contributed to... They have no say on Guns n Roses anymore than Chris Webber does...

Its a shitty way to get thier name in the press and sell records.. like the Biggie/Tupac feud .. nothing sells like sex and controversy...

riding the coat tails of the GnR name....

Kockstar-

You're misinformed. They may not be in the band, but they own part of those songs whether they are in GNR or not. It is for that reason Axl couldn't re-record Jungle and put it on the Black Hawk Down Soundtrack. Axl is as powerless without their signatures as they are without his when it comes to the back catalog. The issue the court is going to decide if majority rules or not when deciding how something is used and when.

At Sharon's urging no doubt.  But, she's a very good businesswoman, that has protected his interests over the years.  

Them being able to say that this or that song can be used here and there would also be them having a say in what goes on in the GN?R camp, which they have no say in, cause they don?t have any rights to the GN?R name legally

But they physically own the songs, and that is the issue at hand. It has nothing to do with the Name, you people need to get past that. They own the actual music and songs irrelevant of the GNR name. THat is a whole nother issue. A judge may rule that a majority is needed to use those songs, and if one sides gets it they can use it. Maybe without the GNR name on it, but that the song itself can be used under an anonymous(but everyone would know a song like WTTJ). It is a messed up situation, but all of the "well they are out of GNR and have no say in GNR camp" people need to realize that is not what they are going to court over.

Yes and they receive royalties for those songs. But the person with the rights to do what every they want with those songs is Axl, and if he did so then they would receive royalties for their hard work.

no they dont... Guns n Roses owns the rights to release those songs on movies

yes it does... They get more press with the Guns n Roses name... Its all about the name... they are bitter...

NO Geffen owns those songs... Guns n Roses performs them.. Thats one reason why the name Guns n Roses is still important

a majority of the owners of the songs... The owner of the songs is Geffen.. not The cowriters, The performers, The Producers, The Recording studio, The Engineer... Guns n Roses owns the songs, The back catalogs, The licneses, The name and They all quit Guns n Roses...

impossible... its copyrighted and owned by Guns n Roses..

no it cant.... If it could there wouldnt be a lawsuit over this...


nope its not... They are going after publicity and a public fued with Axl Rose...

Thats why they are only suing for 1 million dollars.. coz its not about the money or them thinking they have a chance to win... They know they dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to this....

The movies they listed would have paid more than 1 million dollars...

Its a scam and gutless way to sell VR records....

You're wrong, 5 individuals own those songs. They were written under the GNR banner, but in terms of who actually owns the physical songs themselves, the 5 of them do. Which is why the issue of whether Axl has veto power or not is beign sued over. A judge may potentially rule that Axl would have to get a majority to veto usage from here on out because again, he doesn't own the songs. He owns the GNR name. Slash/Duff/Izzy/Steve/Axl own those songs, even the most ardent Axl supporters can't prove that fact otherwise. The issue is whether Axl still has veto power if a majority feels otherwise about something than he does, and that is what a judge will rule on.

exactly.....  :yes:

If it is true that GNR owns those songs and can use them anyway they want, then why couldn't Axl put WTTJ on BHD without Slash and Duff signing off on it? Because he does not have autonomous control of the GNR catalog for anything he wants to use it for. He still needs them to sign of on something. That just blows your whole theory up in smoke that he can do whatever he wants strictly because he owns the name.

Then why could slash and Duff Just rerecord those songs to use as they want?

no you are...

no they dont.. they are cowriters of the songs..  Geffen/Universal own the songs and the entire back catalog... thats why we have the Greatest hits...


and thats why Axl Rose can put them on moives with the GnR name....coz he is GnR and the others quit..

no Geffen/Universal own those songs...

no hes being sued for VR publicity.... its not about the songs or the movies... if it was it would have been done when the offers for those old movies came around...

no he wont coz Guns n Roses is Axl Roses band...

no Geffen and Universal do...

who the songs are copyrighted to... thats why anything with the Guns n Roses name on it gets his final say...

no they dont... Geffen/Universal own those songs..
Thats why we have Greatest Hits...

I think i just did...


no the issue is its a gutless and chicken shit way to start a public fued... They know they can never win this...

because he wanted to re record the song.. and cheat them out of thier royalties... they would have gotten royalties for co writing but not for performing..

no Geffen/Universal do... Thats why we have Greatest Hits Cd....

no he doesnt... he doesnt need them for anything unless they played on it...


Its not a theory.. Geffen/Universal own the back catalog.. This is not about the back catalog its about use of releasing music under the GnR name...

only Axl or Geffen/Universal can do that...

but its really about promotion for VR.... imo...

Great, another lawsuit. Very "rock n roll". With this pace, dont expect Chinese Democracy for another 5 years.

And damnit. An incident like Black Hawk Down. Axl wanted a new version. The old guys didnt. It was all messed up.

And the people that gets hurt are us, the fucking fans. I would have absolutely loved a new version of Welcome to Jungle because it would have been so incredibly fascinating to hear a new version of it. Pure and simple. Forget the "messing with the songs" part, this is for entertainment and I would kill to hear a new version.

But these guys..they are like monsters in a playground. They only think of their own interests and forgets that it's the fans that gets hurt and most importantly, have brought them to the place where they all are, if its in VR or GNR. Its irrelevant.

I understand the VR's guys attutide, but would they please just leave it alone for now. I for one don't want more of this crap. I want rock n roll and Im satisfied with two bands of this magnitude. I mean, it's like the cold war, just in a smaller form and version and guess who's getting fucked up the ass because of it!

the timing of VR's new album and this lawsuit damning Axl as evil yet again is awfully coincidental.

The outcome of the case isn't what really interests me - i'd like to know why Slash and Duff decided to file this now rather than when all these things happened. It's been like 5 or 6 years since BHD was released - nevermind when it was made.

HEY
READ THIS!!!

a friend of mine told me his theory on this case, it makes a lot of sence!


Slash and Duff are planning on playing GnR covers with Velvet Revolver, that's a fact!
But what if they plan to release every concert (like the pixies are doing), then it's gonna cost them a lot of money to uncle Axl...
With this, they might wanna share the rights to the songs!


think about it ;)

Its very simple 2na....they are pulling out all the tricks to promote this new album. and for that they are being pussies. FOr that i have lost a lot of repsect for them.

I dont mind them doing this but why now? what happend from 98-2003? WHy not the urge or desire to do it then? Fukin pussies. They have said countless times how they wanted to put gnr behind them...bullshit....

Sounds like Slash, Duff and the rest of VR need some quick cash to move forward in touring.

I'll laugh when the VR tour fails.

What goes around comes around.  

Izzy and Steven aren't suing Axl, is it because they were left/were fired in 1991/1990?



/jarmo

I thought they already do... That's why Axl was not allowed to re-record SCOM or WTTJ for movies...  Instead we had that dinky Sheryl Crow version...

I wish I could get the legal facts straight there!  

Do the ex-Gunners get royalties from the songs?   They may not have control of the GN'R name, but they have some say in how the songs are used.

Steven Adler sued.  He won.   To the tune of several millions I believe.    He obviously has no control of the GNR name, but he did get his deserved money.

I wonder how the judge will respond this time around.

Steven already got his money, correct?  I dont know about Izzy - he just walked away from it all.   Does he get royalties from the songs?

If he were to join the suit with Slash & Duff, I think they would have a stronger case.

You Axl people should be thanking Slash & Duff for this lawsuit because it give you all the opportunity to do what you all do best: cry like the big crybaby pussies that you've all become. This one's for you, younggunner :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

This one's for you kockstar: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

This one's for you killingvector: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

This one's for you Eva: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

This one's for you Popmusic: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

It's like the more success VR have & the deeper into the shitter Axl & his career go, the more pathetic you Axl people get, & I, for one, am laughing my ass off reading these sorry attempts to somehow try to minimize the opposite direction both groups are heading in.

Everyone, one more time::crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying::crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying:

Its good because it shows how much of the liars that they really are. Its shows that Axl is telling the truth when he talks about them.

All of these years Slash and duff, particularly slash have told us about how he has just wants to move on from gnr and how he could give two shits about the situation.

All of these years- lets say from 98-2003 slash and duff had had the oppurtunity to go to court with axl over this issue. Insead they told us the opposite and that they could carless. They kept telling us how much of rebels they are and tru rnr's.

I have no problem with them going to court but the problem is the timing. Why now? Its very simple. Contraband come to mind?

All of this bullshit along with BTM proves to me that Axl doesnt lie when he talks about the past and th eold members. Whether he is right or wrong is irrelevant. The fact that his side of the story seems to always match up with what he says and the actions of the members....

this truly is a pathetic move by vr....


This is from Pdj79 from newgnr.com. He posted this and it is an excellent post and so i thought it should be shared because its so true....

Snore. I am surprised they didn't do this a long time ago. I mean, seriously, Old School is like the newest movie on that list and it came out last year. I tell you, this is an obvious ploy to get VR's name in the legit press these days. First they join in with Axl over GH and the footnote in each story always mentioned something to the effect of "Duff and Slash are currently promoting the upcoming release of Velvet Revolver's debut RCA album, Contraband, due in stores on June 8th. Axl has spent the last 7 years and $13-million working on the still unreleased Chinese Democracy, which has no tentative release date planned for 2004." Seriously, anything to drum up press about the new band and to drag Axl's project into the mud is fair game for them. I am not one of these typical "Axl can do no wrong" fans who thinks that Axl is just getting the short end of the stick...far from it. I just find it extremely convenient that NOW, after all this time (Black Hawk Down came out in what, 2001?), the ex-members want to sue Axl for cheating them out of royalties, and its just a mere coincidence that this is all happening right around the time their NEW album is about to come out. This is going to be reported in everything from Celebrity Justice to Rolling Stone....all with the afore-mentioned footnote. I won't go so far as boycotting the album, but I will say something to the effect that this was a crappy move to make as I am getting thrown out from the meet and greet area after one of their shows. Its all about the timing that set off this tirade. Pathetic move.

Josh[/i]

Good point. Maybe why the GN'R "Live In Las Vegas 2001" DVD never came out.

I really cant believe you guys. You dont think these guys deserve income from their lifes work? Your fucking joking. Most you guys are so naive,how dare someone challenge the all mighty Axl. Forfucks sake,its business. You guys would do the same thin and you know it. I hope Izzy and Steve sue him too for their share :peace:

they are getting paid for their lives work , their suing cause Axl didn?t let some movies use some songs that would have made money for both parties

yes, but the public won't read that. They'll pick up NME or Q or whatever and it'll say "Velvet Revolver members Slash and Duff are sueing their ex-band member Axl Rose for loss of possible earnings. They claim the reclusive frontman made it impossible to earn a living from their music by not allowing them to put songs onto movie soundtracks. VR's new album Contraband is out soo. Still no news on Chinese Democracy"

So in the end Slash and Duff are portrayed as helpless victims, and they get a nice plug for their album and they also get a dig in at Axl.

lol...did you get a hold of the vh1 btm tape already?  

I don't mind them making money. I wanna know why they are doing all this now.

It's been years since those movies were made, so why bring this up now?

I dont know buddy,no one knows but them. We all continue to speculate but im sure there is a good reason. Its most likely not as sinister as some people believe. Maybe recently they were asked to put a song on a new movie and Axl rejected it,who knows? Not us :peace: :peace:

I agree. I can't believe you guys are acting so crazy about this. None of us here know the details or the true reasons behind it. Just sit back and call Axl the victim..... ::)

Before you nominate Axl for sainthood, just remember, Izzy and Steven are NOT suing Axl...just wanted to mention that :peace:

It's the fact that you say "you're sure there's a good reason". I'm sure there's a "sinister" reason also.

They may or may not be entitiled to money; thats not for any of us to speculate on. But you can't deny that the music press will spin it so that Axl is cast in a bad light and VR will get promotion.

What they are doing isn't wrong - it's just sneeky and underhand.

Wedont know that for sure though :peace:

So you're telling me that the thought will have never crossed their minds?

Well, I for one, do not see Axl as a "victim" in this.  That's not my objection to this decision to file this lawsuit.  I think it's hypocritical to say that you are trying to move away from GN'R and the stigma attached to it and that Axl is the only one trading on the GN'R name for professional gain when you do something like this.  

As 2NaFish said, why are they doing this now of all times?  Why a month before your new band's album is released?  While they aren't as guilty as Axl Rose of using the band's name for professional gain, they aren't innocent either.  

Ali

Well Adler doesn't have any writing credits so it doesn't affect him I don't think.  Although in addition to his settlement, I believe he still get's royalties from Appetite.  So does Izzy.  You sure have to admire Izzy, just being able to let it all go, he still plays and records music, he doesn't care about fame at all.  

Im not saying that either,im just saying no one knows but them and most people pick sides and trash the other without knowing the facts. :peace:

intelligent .....

I have one for you too but there is no emotioncon for it...
and since the mods are watching my posts very closely the last few days ill refrain Donkey!!!!


what success do they have? They are worried about putting GnR songs on Movies... They need to worry about putting more VR songs on movies... they quit GnR... leave Axl and GnR alone... worry about VR and VR songs... not putting WTTJ on a soundtrack for the 100th time....

What did I tell you earlier?

Stick to the VR section if you have trouble posting with trying to insult the majority of the board.

Stop crying about what other people do on the board.



/jarmo

You got that right.  : ok:

and... um...

Keep my name out of your posts.

Its obviousl that SLASH AND DUFF are the ones CRYING!
Crying for attention among other things.
Fucking losers.

How many times in the past couple of weeks and month have we heard people marvel at how much better GH is doing than anyone thought it was. The reason for the lawsuit now is that it A) There is a tremendous interest in the GNR back catalog that maybe wasn't there previously when there was no greatest hits to show that people really care about the old material, and B) It is a great chance to get publicity and promote their band. There is nothing underhanded at all about it. They are using this to their advantage and to the average non-biased fan they are going to come out smelling like roses(pardon the pun). If nothing else Axl should be paying attention to what they are doing to create a buzz and get people into their new projects. Between Wieland's rehab problems and Slash and Duff exploiting GNR, they haven't been out of the news in Months. That can only be thought of as a good thing if your VR.

And BTW, their not broke. THey made some good money from the Money cover and Set me Free to get them going, and at this point the record company is pumping serious cash into this project as there is an incredible buzz going. There was a gigantic bidding war for them after the El REy show last year, so I am sure that funding is the least of their problems.

A comment from Axl would be interesting.

I'm sure he'd get called "an asshole", "a liar" and "a loser" by some.

Oh, and can't forget the "bashing the ex-members" part.  :hihi:


Wonder if Duff and Slash got new lawyers who told them "hey, did you know you can sue Axl for $1 million"?



First Duff and Slash say they were pissed at Geffen because hey put out a shitty Greatest Hits only to make money. Now they're suing Axl because he didn't let some movies use GN'R tracks in them and they lost money because of that?  ???

What's next? Steven suing Axl because he didn't let somebody use a GN'R track in a shampoo commercial or Izzy suing Axl for not letting McDonald's use You Could Be Mine in a Big Mac commercial?  :hihi:


I'm sure there's a reason for this, I just think it's kinda sad that it has to be like this.....


/jarmo

It's too bad they can't just call Axl and work this out. It didn't/doesn't need to goto court. For whatever reason though, rationally working things out with him never seems to be an option. I just don't understand how every former band member gets along (Izzy/Steve/Matt/Duff/Gilby/Slash) with eachother and is still friends and how none of them can even be in the same room as him. They should all be forced into a room with one another and no one comes out until all of this non-sense is stopped and settled. There would be none of these problems now if the Name had just been let go and they all moved on with their lives.

$lash sucks.

But Slash wrote the guitars for just about every song, why is he given special mention in the writing credits of just that song?

He's not mentioned in the writing credits of November Rain etc does that mean he didn't write the music?

I'm confused

Gilby and Axl performed two Stones songs together in 2000. ;)




/jarmo

I knew that, but I am going to venture to say that was the last time they have had any contact because when asked Gilby has said he knows nothing about New Gnr's projects. Maybe I'm wrong though. ???

Axl Rose Sued By Ex-Guns N' Roses Bandmates

In March, guitarist Slash and bassist Duff McKagan joined forces with their old singer in Guns N' Roses, Axl Rose, to file a lawsuit against their former label to prevent it from releasing a Guns N' Roses greatest-hits album. They lost.

Now, Slash (a.k.a. Saul Hudson), McKagan and Rose again have their names on a legal document, only this time their union is adversarial: the two members of Velvet Revolver are suing Axl for at least $1 million, according to "Celebrity Justice."

In the suit, Rose is accused of rejecting requests to use old Guns N' Roses songs in major motion pictures even though he lacks controlling interest in the material. Slash and McKagan added that they weren't consulted when their ex-bandmate nixed lucrative offers from the makers of "We Were Soldiers," "Death to Smoochy," "Old School" and "Just Married."

The suit also claims Rose killed negotiations with the producers of "Black Hawk Down," who wanted to use "Welcome to the Jungle" in their movie. He allegedly had wanted to re-record the track with the new members of GN'R he had hired so Slash and McKagan wouldn't receive any licensing payment.

Rose's management had no comment on the suit.



?Jon Wiederhorn


www.MTV.com



/jarmo

Axl probably couldn't even complete a new recording of WTTJ then.  Pathetic.

I hope Slash and Duff win the case, and I look forward to seeing them in Philly on the 28th.  

Axl would do a techno/rock version of "welcome to the jungle" with samples, with an electronical horrible voice like in "oh my god" and he would tell scooter (the german techno DJ) to help him to put a 300 bp for the drums... and he would finish with a "YO MAN!" at the end because Axl is Hip-Hop now, yeah it is the trend it's "cool"...
Pathetic is the word. he would destroy the song, like he destroyed "Use Your illusion 2" with "My world".
MC-Axl will be back very soon! "yo man!"  :(

This thread is just a mess, so Ill just limit my post...

For those who suspect there might be some kind of conspiracy with the timing...It costs money and takes time to look into and then file these lawsuits (meaning its probably been looked into for awhile).  And unlike Axl, neither Slash are Duff are incredibly litigious (at least not to my knowledge).  So to go through with something like this seems pretty serious, so for them to plan it as a [hardly effective] promotional method doesnt seem rational, especially when the realities of the suit will far outlast any short-term "promotional" value, and especially since VR havent exactly had any problems in the PR department.  I really doubt that theyre happy about doing this, but if they feel theyre getting screwed, and it appears that way, then its certainly worth pleading their case.

If i've told u once i've told u a million time, don't exaggerate

-------------

Just reading that bit about GNR could have been included on the 'We were soldiers' soundtrack - i can't really see helicopters riding into battle accopanied by welcome to the jungle (warfare)....

-------------
ps. Booker, i think your being a bit naive - 'lawsuits take time', yes but not 3 years for something as straightforward as this........

And don't u think its a little convenient: VR are struggling for money (somehow)  and have an expensive tour about to start.....

....and now have a quick and easy way of making money.........wonderful how things work out?

Without "my world", "Use Your Illusion 2" would have been considered as one of the greatest record of all time. Unfortunately that song killed the record. I don't exagerate, this is the truth.

Booker, Axl usually gets sued!!!! He is involved in lawsuits because people sue him or the brand Gnr...I don't recall many lawsuits he filed himself. Please enlighten me...... ;D

Just my two cents. I am a paralegal for a film production company that has to deal with securing master use and synch. licenses all the time. BUT I have not been to law school yet NOR have I seen any of the GN'R contracts, etc. So really just a bit of guess work with some limited experience in the field. Take it with a grain of salt and I welcome all feedback:

Anyway, unless there's some hidden "surprise" in Slash and Duff's GN'R contracts or termination settlements from 96-97... I fully expect that Axl's veteran legal team will make quick work of this suit. From the outside, Axl and his lawyers are definitely holding all the cards here.  

The old members continue to be compensated on a daily basis for their previous work (cd sales, airplay, etc.). As far as we know, they were richly compensated for both selling their "controlling rights" to Axl and then further upon their departure from the band. Further, everything I have ever read has stated that what Axl actually bought from Slash and Duff was "controlling interest" in the band... which to me would suggest that he is in effect both the majority owner and CEO of Guns N' Roses and in the judge's eyes positioned to not only carry on under the GN'R moniker but also to determine the business direction of the Guns N' Roses franchise and to say "yes" or "no" to any and all business propositions that come the franchise's  way (This is not without its limitations though as the GH case showed- but I believe that cuts more to the Axl-Universal/Geffen business relationship and not the Axl-Slash/Duff business relationship). Additionally, the passage of time and ample examples of the business model operating according to these paremeters without so much as a whimper from Slash and Duff also damages their case and just reinforces Axl's position.

It would appear to me that Slash and Duff are little more than minority shareholders with royalty rights and perhaps additional other limited rights. In the normal business world- their only recourse would be to try to rally a majority of the shareholders for a vote of "no-confidence" against the CEO and force him out. However, since I believe Axl is not only the sitting CEO, but ALSO the majority shareholder, I think Slash and Duff have ZERO opportunity to turn the tables there.

As I said in the beginning, their best hope has to be that something in the language of their old GN'R contracts or termination settlement has been misinterpreted or abused for going on nearly 10 years now and it is only now come to their attention. That is possible, but highly unlikely. Something tells me Axl's lawyers went through these contracts with a fine tooth comb well before Slash and Duff's lawyers did. Especially considering Axl put down a healthy sum for the name and "controlling interest".

Perhaps they could conceed Axl's "decision making authority", and build a case around "gross negligence" instead, but I suspect they would have to show that Axl deliberately deprived them of revenue streams for no other reason than vindictive spite or completely incompetent business decision making. But it would seem to me that Axl's lawyers can just say that Axl vetoed many of these projects because he "thought GN'R's association with such questionable movies/projects would ultimately do more harm than good for the brand name, and that that decision is certainly the perrogative of any CEO/majority shareholder, etc.". At the end of the day, it's not as if Axl turned down Titanic or The Lord of the Rings. With the exception of BHD- these were all questionable/marginal projects.

I could be missing something... in fact a lot since Slash and Duff did find a way to block the re-recording of WTJ for BHD. But that could be little more than a limited clause in their contracts or settlement agreements barring re-recordings which would deprive them of their master use license fees/royalty fees, but I'm not certain that's enough to claim "controlling interest" in the songs. It's more a measure to restrict Axl's ability to bar them from collecting on master use license fees/royalties, but it would not appear to be a tool for them to force Axl to license out GN'R music to any and all projects they want him to.

I'm not prepared to go down the path of suggesting that this is a PR stunt for VR. More likely, there's some phrase or language in one of the contracts that has been eating at Slash and Duff's lawyers for some time and they have always felt that it was worth a shot at some point along the way to see if they couldn't get their clients a piece of the controlling interest in the potential goldmine that is the licensing of the GN'R song catalog. Perhaps the whole GH suit had them studying the contracts again very carefully and they discovered (or re-discovered) something interesting and decided now was the time to pursue it. Who knows.

Oh well. Let the judge decide. I think we all agree though that it's never good to see GN'R back in the courthouse.:no:

Nope, sorry. Back on topic.



/jarmo

I know they must have been so torn in making this descsion that it took them from 98-2003 to make a descsion.Poor fellas

Um, being that many think its a promtional stunt, the conclusion of the suit is irrelevant. The fact that they are suing Axl during the time of their release is lame. really lame. Now when articles discuss the suit they will also discuss vr. and thats the goal...the verdict of the suit is meaningless.

Once again you piant an nice saint liek picture for slash yet its axls fault or his territory. i love it......who cares though slash and duff are liars case closed.

I dont know but if someone wanted to re-record a song just to cheat the real writers out of money I would sue his ass for as long as he lives for being a stupid selfish crying cunt!  :rant:

I think in the last 5 years, we've seen Axl's true face. I will always admire the dude for his incredible talents, but now this is very sad.  :crying:

ppl seem to be forgetting here that even decent people like Robert John are suing Axl because he messed around with their financial deals (not to mention Gilby Clarke). I also wonder if Josh Richman is still friends with Axl, or Sebatchian Bach etc... This is the man who won't even let his greatest professional partner ever, Slash, attend his show (as if he's afraid to prove himself to the old members).

VR would welcome Axl at any of their gigs (though Im sure Axl won't leave even leave his house on any given nite, let alone the night of their shows) because Slash and Duff and Matt are ultimately like you and me and they know when to "Live and Let Live". Axl is just the opposite. He sings about that every nite he performs.

Axl is a very sick man ladies and gents. Everything for him is Victory or Death, and in the process of achieving the ultimate Victory, he's discarded everyone and everything that helped him achieve his stardom in his first place...everyone from Tom Zutaut to Izzy Stradlin, to Josh Richman, to Roy Thomas Baker to us, his fans. He has taken his rock n roll out of the stadiums and he's put it into a court of law because he's trying to cover his own tracks from all the shit he's put people through. He's just like Michael Jackson. he may not molest kids, but he certainly is a bad man to be doing business with. Then again, everytime something pulls through, its a success (until the CD tour 2002).

To the people out there who still believe in Axl and CD, you are all sick as well. Axl has worn out his welcome. It will never matter anymore how great CD is because VR already is putting out a cool record, they have great chemistry, a good-looking frontman in Scott Weiland who's hip and "slithers". Even the name VELVET REVOLVER is a shitload cooler than Chinese Democracy VR is becoming a huge band on the music scene almost immediately while us fans were wasting our time the last 5 years arguing on whether the new GNR could even attract girls  :peace:
Now Slash and Duff have a lawsuit against Axl that demonstrates to the public how sikk Axl is over control that he's willing to pursue all options to maintain it (if the MTV Vma's weren't enough to show how sikk the man is).

-We're also talking about a guy who nearly bought back "November Rain" to never released it, thereby almost robbing GNR and their fans of further musical glory.
-We're also talking about a man who forced Izzy out of the band because composed a contract to reduce Izzy's pay because he didn't move around stage like the other members.
-We're talking about a guy who threatened to have his bodyguards beat up Mick Wall because he didn't like his piece in Kerrang from 1990.

We're also talking about a musical genius here and Im aware of that. But just because you ike his music doesn't mean you have to like the man. Im sure he's misunderstood but the longer he stays away from the public eye, the less credibility he has.
Meanwhile, the Philly fans can anticiapte the return of GNR in May with VR. Im in Boston and will be seeing VR on 5/29 in a club with the intimacy and sonic boom that was so lacking when nu-GNR was here in 2002. VR can do the stadiums laters once their album has gone 3-4 PLATINUM. They put a couple of months of work into that. Axl will be lucky now if he sells that much after 7+ years in the studio.

When you listen to Tom Petty's "Into The Great Wide Open", have W. Axl Rose in mind. Tom Petty sang with him a couple of times in 1989 and I think he sensed that Axl was about to lose it all. It was a prophecy that unfortunately came true. we have now lost a great musical genius (but at least we get his cool lead guitarist and bassist as compensation!)
 :rant:
Mark N' Roses

Thank you for sharing your insight on the topic MaoAxl  : ok:

Very interesting and well stated.
Great points.  I think that Axl owning the GN'R name will come into play on this big time.

Are we severely sickened or is it temporary. Some tussin cure it?

So theyre going to spend money on legal fees and burden themselves with legal proceedings just so they can get some mentions in news outlets?  If thats what yout think... : ok:

Isn't all this ironic? When the band really started "breaking up" back in 1995 (or in 91, if you want to include Izzy), there wasn't nearly as much acrimony...A few press releases and people just left....suddenly, almost 9 years after the fact, we're seeing all the nastiness usually associated with 'bad' breakups. It's dissapointing, but it proves that Axl isn't the only one to blame here (though he certainly shoulders most of it.), IMO...all these guys (except Izzy, who has actually moved on) are egomaniacal pricks.

I dont have anything against Slash and Duff having a go at Axl per-se. I have a problem with the timing. Are you guys so dumb that you wont even see that they at least thought of the timing and how it would be great for more than the reason to shove some paperwork up Axl's ass yet again. Anyone would have at least thought twice about it.

They are still getting an awful lot of money from the songs and albums sold. I hardly see the difference of income by having some songs on some really sucky movies up to a couple of decent ones. Mind you, films that music does very little on. A film like "We were Soldiers" for example. Who can remember any music from that movie? It's not really needed. You just need the orchestral arangements and the odd 60-70s song and thats about it.

It's like Im having this dinner and when Im done there's some bits and pieces on the plate couldnt care less about since Im pretty full as it is. I then proceede to sue the manager of the restaurant for taking away my plate before I was finished.

It makes sense.  Axl is a Cutthroat business man.

But I have one problem, Why is this 9 years late and so close the the Contraband release date?

How would such people react, if it was the other way around?  Looking at Death cube, Young gunner and SCLPLUNK.

Mark, you can read minds.. mine that is.  I always think of Axl when I listen to that song!

"The sky was the limit"...

As someone mentioned earlier, this is all very sad.  That is my overwhelming feeling. Talk about not healing old wounds.

p.s. What you said about Petty sensing the future - that's very interesting.  I love his lyrics and I think he was able to feel things like that.

of course, MarkNRoses is the guy who screamed and pouted when axl did not show up for his show at Philly. Sorry you lost money over that but time to heal, or is it heel? Get over it and don't psychoanalyze people here over your own personal demons.  I see you still impersonate axl at talent competitions. Still don't believe in the guy?

Evidently he is directing his perception of his feelings over to the rest of us. Not the most objective person.

Mark, Axl lost ya in Philly. Some of us are still hanging on.

Wat are U talking about???
I don't live in Philly, I live in Boston. I saw the nuGNR in Boston and I only liked the new songs they played that nite, not when they tried living up to past glories.
Go to the "Tour Section" and the "Boston 12/2/2002" post and you will find my long review there (I tend to write a lot when it comes to GNR.

I was only trying to say that the Philly fans are going to get a treat later this month because not only will a great rock band show up to play, but they have new material that sounds fun and great and that they're really excited about sharing with their fans. Meanwhile, Axl didn't seem to thrilled on sharing any of his new material during the CD 2002 tour, and that is the main reason why that tour was cancelled (and to which I am thankful for)  :beer:

I'm sorry for arousing any false accusation from others on myself. I didn't know I could hit so many nerves in a Axlover's body with one post.
 8)
Mark N' Revolverz

I only read upto page 6 or so and  thought entered my mind. If anyone else brought this up, just let me know, don't blast me for it.

first this is from what I have read in the past, and on these posts:

The law suit is over the SONGS, not name of the band.

Slash and Duff feel they should have a say in how the songs are used.

They were paid for the rights to use the name, and the back catalog, by W. Axl Rose.

Axl won't let the songs be used in some movies.

Slash and Duff feel cheated over this.

Slash and Duff LEFT the band. Not Axl firing them, I feel this point is very important.

Okay, now onto my feelings.

Slash and Duff may have helped write the music, but it was Axl Rose who wrote most of the lyrics.

Is it possible that Axl, if in the position, can use this to his advantage, stating he does not want his LYRICS used? That is if he comes out on the losing end.

I have a feeling Axl's side holds more water, based just off the fact that he paid money for the songs.

Keep in mind that I'm a huge Axl supporter, but that doesn't mean I hate Slash. I think this move is gutless, and I don't agree with it, but you can't just be anti-Slash becuase of it. Like a poster said earlier, who really knows the entire story. I know a ridiculous amount about the band, like most gunners here, but its mostly based off of what I have read, I have never sat down with either side, I have only heard through the media. We all know the media to not all be truthful. Who knows though. Maybe they have a case, or maybe Axl Rose will skate by this one.

I for one don't want to see VR's side victorious, I want Axl to come out on top.

So my point about the songs is this:

Should each member be entitled to what he CONTRIBUTED?
Can Slash reape benefits of Axl's lyrics, and Axl of Slash's riffs and solos?

Also with that aside, how can there be a case if Axl legally BOUGHT GNR?


Just my two cents.

There are a lot of people on here that truly all-out believe in CD - I don't regard any of them as sick. Misinformed, maybe. Sick, no.

Me? I think the album will eventually come out someday, and when it does, I'll probably get it. No big whoop either way anymore for me. VR is damn cool, although this lawsuit is really bullshit. I don't like VR's hype machine... they are just turning the cranks on an old hype machine that has been off for quite a while. But I can't say it's making me want their album or to see them live any less. It's a rock band that is GOOD.

At the end of the day, it's just music. People who make something this big out of it are the real sickies (In my opinion, this would make both Axl and Slash sick; really guys - this is horse shit). What normal person really gives a fuck? And if your answer is "I DO! I DO! I DO!" Maybe it's time to re-evaluate how important two guys you don't even know named Axl and Slash are to you.

Is it possible that its not even about whether they wanted the songs in the movies or not, but rather the principal that they werent even consulted?  Their argumemt is that Axl doesnt have controlling interest in the songs that they all wrote.  None of us know if this is true or not, nor do we know what provoked the lawsuit and why its happening now, so to jump to all of these conclusions is silly.    

That's it right there, period. I believe that Axl probably does.

Principles were thrown out the window a long time ago. This is just business, really.
I don't believe that Slash et al understood all the ramifications that went along with Axl's ownership of the name...

"Wat are U talking about???
I don't live in Philly, I live in Boston. I saw the nuGNR in Boston and I only liked the new songs they played that nite, not when they tried living up to past glories.
Go to the "Tour Section" and the "Boston 12/2/2002" post and you will find my long review there (I tend to write a lot when it comes to GNR."

i have to go back and read it again then because i remember you being less than complimentary about the whole situation.

How about... nobody cares.  : ok:

Don't you get it?  Axl was going to let the movie use the song, he just was going to let them use some crappy version re-recorded by the new band so that Slash, Duff and co wouldn't receive any royalties for songs THEY HELPED WRITE.  In other words, Axl wanted to stab them both in the back.

Axl has a long track record of fucking people over, so I hope they sue his ass off.

Don't u think thats a bit negative?

Even if Axl did want to re-record the songs don't u think its more likely he was doing that because he wanted to experiment and not because he wanted to screw Slash out of a few dollars?

I don't think he's that petty....

dizzy, that was for only the BlackHawk Down OST and he wanted to use it as vehicle for the new band. I doubt very much that he consciously said outloud that he wanted to  screw the other guys of their monies. for the other cases, he simply refused to use the songs. I 'm glad he did because althougth Old School was pretty good, I don't need to hear WTTJ or PC used in every other film like Seger's Like a Rock or that awful "I get knocked down" garbage. Good for axl for not selling out.

yeah, Mark i must have had you confused with tomass. My apologies sir.

slash and duff are whores!!!!!!

ive always respected axl for sticking to his guns whether he is right or wrong and he has never really sold out in myopinion

slash and duff would have gnr like Kiss if they could help it, anything to make money

true they should have a say in music they helped create but they are looking like greedy bastards in my eyes

this is like the remaining members of the doors going on tour and whoring out their legacy to make a few bucks when everyone knows the doors was "jim morrison"

its not the same axl playing the old songs, it would be different if axl fired slash, if he fired duff, or if slash or duff had died but they walked away on their own decisions

they signed their rights away, so now they cant be bitching cause they regret it

they have a new band, they need to concentrate on making velvet revolver something, cause what they dont realize is the majority know Axl Rose, slash is known also but nowhere the scale axl is, and no one knows duff he plays bass for fucksake

so what they are gonna do is alienate fans who were casually interested in VR they are gonna take axls side and VR wont live up to any expectation

i like the old band but i make no bones about my loyalty to axl

why didnt they sue him 8 years ago? why now? they want publicity for their velvet revolver shit, if not they wouldve done this years ago

Anyone else have any questions about a possible reunion? Didn't think so.



Tell me this however. Even if Slash and Duff did have some control of the GnR name,  Rose could still be against the use of the songs, in which case, they would not be able to do anything since he is still heavily responsible for these hits. You can't sue your bandmate for not wanting to release something that he had a major part in.  

Thing is right;

Axl, SLash and Duff have inspired me so so much.  I love their music and the way it excites me.  Buying the old shows on bootlegs and seeing them performing their guts out fuels me even more.
I buy stuff that's released because i am interested because i like it and i want it, has nothing to do with any fucker else.

However it does not give me or you the right to have as strong opinions as i have read on some of the posts here.  I don't know about you, but i have seen and heard enough stuff of theirs, read enough interviews and have even met Slash. These are cool fucking talented guys - all of them!  

What has really gone on between them all, we will probably never know the full story.  One thing i have to say in the Slash and Duff's defence is their strength is that they have moved on with their lives, they have wives and kids.  Have seen the world, have listened and met fans and seen audience' reaction to what they created with Guns.  And it must rip them up when you consider how close they all were and how some how during the egos, drugs and chaos of touring they just lost touch with Axl and you can sense that they do feel a bit gutted they have strong emotional ties GN'R and Axl.   Unfortunatly Axl doesn't seem to have that emotional loyalty or sense of loss.  

I haven't read or heard all the latest interviews but I listened to the Bruce Dickenson one a couple of weeks back and basically; i got the sense that what he was really asking them was What the hell happened? Why did you let all this happen ? Why didn't you guys have more control over the situation?  And they were like we don't really have good answers lol  you know ? it was like a hangover moment .

And maybe now they have all sobered up and have serious responsibilities they are probably realising, fuck what a mess and are probably fed up of talking for Axl and realise maybe they should not just continue to let things go they want to stand up for themselves, and by rights they should.  

If you or I were in the same position we would all do the same and if you say otherwise you'r fucking lieing lol  Money is not the be all and end all. But i feel confident from what i know that these guys are not just about money.  Believe me there are so many ways they could have drained on the GNR name in the last 10 years but have not- think about it.  

I love these guys and i love Axl. The truth is we are all here writing in because of what these guys created together. So stop fucking slagging them all off  you have no right to. You can only judge if you know the full story and unless you are them you don't!
 

Maybe Sla$h needs to pay for his medical bills.  I don't know if you remember this post but I was down on sunset one evening having a few drinks and these nurses I met were there.  I asked them if any celebs come in.  They told me Sla$h is in there all the time.    I said for what?  They said OD all the time.  No BS.  
This just goes to show you whats holding Axl back.  Remember Axl said their are alot of legal issues going on that he can't talk about.  Well heres part of it.  This is just my opinion but all the Ex members are leeches.  They keep saying they don't care, but when it comes down to it, they do care and won't let GNR go and on top of that their album is coming out soon and either if they win or don't it gets their names in the papers right before their release of Velvet Revolver.  Think about it people.  At least AXL ROSE isn't a sellout.  Slash and Duff doing a week ass peformance of Paradise City on Jimmy Kimmel.  Come on.  Slash and Duff are just attention whores to promote their album.  If they have good case why didn't they bring this up years ago.  Get over it Sla$h and Duff its over and you're not part of GNR anymore.  God bless Axl Rose

Smells like a publicity stunt to me.  Contraband is due to be released in 1 month and this lawsuit helps to connect Velvet Revolver to the old GNR classics.

The sharks (lawyers/liers) love these guys.

any one band nulling any deal can kill any kind of music deal

if one member doesnt agree for a song to be used then it cant be used, its that simple

if we all have equal share if one member says no, then the deal is dead

same as slash and duff, if axl wanted to use a song in  a movie they'd have to approve

but of course im sure slash and duff wouldnt care a bit as long as they were makin money

Fucking hypocrite.  Axl Rose (1/5 of Guns N Roses) is the one using the GNR name, so don't point the finger at Slash and Duff and state that they are the ones who would hog the GNR name.



Contradiction.  You say they should have a say in the music, but then say they're greedy because they fight for a say in it.



Irrelevant and an ineffectual analogy anyway, because it's not the same scenario.


They did NOT sign away their rights to the songs.  That is what they're fighting for, not the GNR name.



Untrue.  Somebody on this board once went into some big chatroom that was unrelated to any type of music and asked people what they thought of when they heard the name Guns N Roses.  The overwhelming majority said "Axl and Slash".


A ridiculous assumption.


And that says it all.


Maybe because Axl wasn't attempting to fuck them out of royalties eight years ago.



No.  If Axl wanted to experiment, he could release one of his new songs on a soundtrack, a la "Oh My God", rather than re-recording an old song which he know damn well would deny the former members their royalties.  And even if he truly wanted to re-record an old song, he could very easily ask Slash's and Duff's permission and pay them a certain amount for it.  But he didn't, that's the point.  Axl is an intelligent man, he knows damn good and well that re-recording the songs would result in the denial of royalties to the former members who helped write the songs.

In the latest weeks issue of Radio and Rercords they had an interview with Duff. In the interview Duff goes on to say he was pulling for Axl in 02 and "i've moved way beyond that (GNR) and that was a long time ago for me."

Point is They (Slash,Duff) do all these interviews saying how they have moved past the guns n roses days. But then they go file this bullshit lawsuit. What the fuck! This could of been done 5 years ago but they know they cant sell a fucking copy of Contraband unless it has a GNR connection to sell it. From what I have heard its sounds ok nothing awesome. The guitar work is great but the lyrics are terrible. Weiland cant sing and I cant stand the sound of his coked-up voice.

Another point is Slash,Duff,Gilby,Matt all walked away from GNR. Its like quiting a job and showing back up 10 years later and saying hey boss you owe me some money. Whats the boss going to say Fuck You!!! You quit!!

I support Velvet Revolver but after this move to try to pry some money from Axl I may have to just download the album and fuck VR out of some money.. Maybe then they will take me to court??

Another possible reason could be they need the money to help Weiland pay off drug debts. Stupid crack head!!

Thanks for calling me crazy!!!!!!! But at least I believe

What a lot of people here have to remember is that this has NOTHING to do about the name Guns 'n Roses. It's about who owns the songs and how they can use them.

Just because Axl wrote the lyrics doesn't mean he soley owns them.
Remember, Michael Jackson owns most of the Beatles publishing rights. Paul McCartney has NO SAY SO as to how the songs are used in commercials or movies, etc.

So, it comes down to who owns the publishing rights to the songs. If Duff and Slash gave up their part legally (which I would think someone here would have record of), then they have NO SAY.  However, if they are still partial owners of the songs legally, then they should have a say-so as to how they get used.

Just remember, the next time you hear The Beatles "Revolution" being pimped out to sell deoderant, it's Wacko Jacko's doing, not Lennon/McCartney.

This is the best soap opera in the world!
In addition, this is a quote from Axl about giving Steven part of his publishing rights for Appetitite in RIP in 1992:
"At one point, in order to keep this band together, it was necessary for me to give him a portion of my publishing rights. That was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my life, but he threw such a fit, saying he wasn't going to stay in the band. We were worried about not being able to record our first album, so I did what I felt I had to do. In the long run I paid very extensively for keeping Steven in Guns N' Roses. I paid $1.5 million by giving him 15% of my publishing off of Appetite For Destruction. He didn't write one goddamn note, but he calls me a selfish dick! "

And in a lot of cases, he didn't write the lyrics.  According to the writing credits that he admitted to back in 1988, he only wrote 1/2 of the lyrics on AFD.


Indeed, and that's what this is about, not the usage of the GNR name.

What a mess, what was once the biggest and greatest rock band on the planet, has turned out to be  :(

It's six to one or half a dozen to the other as they say.. I can see where Slash & Duff are coming from.. and I can see where Axl is coming from.. although yes I tend to agree, that if he wants to use new GNR recordings, perhaps he should use a new song written by the new band.

Man surely you can evaluate the situation by looking at the past 8 years or so.  Neither of them has abused the GNR name, at most -they have performed a couple of songs here and there. Do people associate them with Guns? Yes they do and they always will.  They speak about Guns because people ask them, people are interested.
Because they were key figures in creating it all, so that in my mind says that they all should have a say into how their music is released.  

Wasn't that an argument that most here posed about the GH? That it didn't have the band members say or involvement to make it a more decent - fan -appriciating feel to it?

I happen  to think the reasons about the film releases is a bit weak. Axl has a good sense of quality control.  Apart from Black hawk down only because it was based on a real event and it would have been cool to have GNR be apart of that history.  The other films mentioned - it wouldn't have been a good thing.  But i think their case is perhaps more to do with control than just the money.

 

But what if you had helped create the product being sold?  Would you just walk away?  Not many people would.

Another point is Slash,Duff,Gilby,Matt all walked away from GNR. Its like quiting a job and showing back up 10 years later and saying hey boss you owe me some money. Whats the boss going to say Fuck You!!! You quit!!


They may have walked away from the band, but they didn't sell Axl their share of control in the songs. Its like owning a Stock you may have obtained while working for a company, you may leave that company but you still own the stock you obtained while working there. You might not work for company X anymore, but as a share holder you still have a direct say in what happens with that company's assetts. In this case those songs are kind of like the company and the writing credits assigned to Slash/Duff and the others are the stock.


The bigger question....what would it do to GNR were Slash/Duff to actually pull this lawsuit off and gain extra control over use of the back catalog. They would not be wasting litigation and lawyer fee's (and no lawyer would even take the case if they didn't see themselves getting part of the final payout by winning) if they didn't at least think there was a reasonable chance for success. What would this do to Axl's mental stability and the future of GNR?

What about the video?  Johnny Depp as an innocent small town boy who turns into a mess of a rock star?  Totally based on Axl and a bit of Slash with the awards ceremony part.


Hello?  That was the first post under this topic, before I even knew about the BHD thing, don't speak to me like I'm a moron.  Save it for the morons.  I realize Axl was trying to punish them with the WTTJ thing.  I'm still somewhat sympathetic to both sides of the dispute though.  Fact is Axl and Slash have widely opposing views on how to manage their music, if Slash were to get a majority vote with Duff and whoever else, GnR's music could be whored out to places it maybe should not go.  Although yes, I do not think they should be cheated out of their monies.  

there ya go, a chatroom said it so it is true!!!!!!!

axl isnt whoring the name out by continuing on, he didnt quit guns n roses, they quit so why should he have to start over?

why should he turn his back on everything he worked to help create just cause bandmembers want to leave?

i dont think its fair and u know i always am sensitive to millionaires cryin cause they may have missed out on another million dollars or so

boo fuckin whoooooooo

are slash and duff still gettin royalties from album sells? yes they are so they should be happy and shut up!

axl still is tryin to do something with Guns N Roses, putting old songs in every movie coming and going would hurt whatever progress he intends to make

i applaud axl for not whoring out the GNR catalogue and i think everyone should give axl a hand for not doing so

but its the slash and duff and old band loyalist on here that talk shit regardless of what axl should do

dizzy u bitch at me for talkin bout george w bush and how he is damned either way, well u know axl is damned either way

if he had gnr songs in every movie comin and goin u would be the first on here bitchin about how he is capitalizing further from former  gnr success etc etc so u call me a hypocrite, u are one in the same

and dont say u wouldnt be the first to say something like this cause i and everyone knows u take any opportunity to bash axl

to old gnr fans no one ever holds slash and the old members accountable for shit, its all axl's fault! everything is axls fault and im tired of it!

slash and poor duff arent innocent victims they have their fair share of blame, its just no one ever holds them accountable

why does it have to be crappy version?? The versions that the New Band play are way better than the AFD version... The New band plays it way better than the old did.. The guitars are fuller, louder not to mention that the drums are way better than fucking Popcorn could ever play...

Id rather hear and audence recording or Soundboard of the new band than the Studio Version from the old... coz it sounds old...

yeah thats it... he wanted to rerecord it coz of the old band members... oh and FYI they would have recieved royalties from the song... roylaties for writing the song, just not for playing on it... get it right if ur gonna make assumtions like that...

in your words  :nervous:   Nobody would have gave it 2 seconds of thought if that movie had an AFD version of WTTJ on it... a new version by the new band would have gotten alot of interest... interest in his new band.. the band hes trying to promote ... unlike Slash and Duff hes interested in putting his new band on Soundtracks ... VR needs to do the same.. worry about putting VR songs on more soundtracks.. not GnR....

of course you do.. Coz you know that Contraband is gonna be a shitty album... if Slither is any indication of whats to come then id be worrying about old GnR songs on soundtracks also... instead of concentrating on thier new band and thier new tour..

Contraband will straight to the bargin bin by the end of the summer....

yes they did...they dont control the songs anymore Guns n Roses and Geffen do..  They have no more right to say what projects a Guns n Roses recorded song are on than Chris Webber does...

Thats why they still get royalties from the songs or (stocks as you put it)  you may still get the royalties from the songs but if you quit the company you dont have a say in the day to day workings or decisions of the company anymore ... you quit....

no... thats dead wrong...  you go buy some stock in WalMart and then try to tell the company what to do just coz your a share holder..... Dead wrong...

thats all they are are writing and performing credits for the old recordings... thats it..... they cant decide what Guns n Roses songs are used for what project.. only Guns n Roses and Geffen can.... They know that too...

This will never go to court... its a publicty stunt... what does it cost maybe a few hundred bucks for them to file a lawsuit that they know will get thrown out anyways??
Its a chicken shit way to hype the VR album thats out in a month.. If it truly were about the money from the lost sound tracks it would have been filed and brought up years ago when Axl turned down those old movies...

Thank you.  Two good points.  First one:  YES They would get royalties for the song just as though it was a cover....
the way whoever owns the rights to KOHD or LALD gets royalties when the old band perfomred 'em.  So they wouldn't be getting screwed out of 'their rights' or 'their money'.

and second:  Excellent.  Yes, they should be planning how to get VR songs on some more movies and make money off of that - where they don't need Axl's okay.  and another thing regarding Black Hawk Down - at least he can recognize a quality movie *coughnottheHulkpieceofshitcough*  :hihi:  

This statement alone lets me know that I don't even need to read anything else you wrote.

Why's that? Because someone prefers the way an AFD song is played by the new band, his/ her opinion is automatically wrong and not interesting?

too bad you did and couldnt come up with anything to back up "sue his ass off"

Its a sad day for you VR fans isnt it... coz all the shit you all accused Axl of for soooo many months... the banter you all spewed about "Slash and Duff have moved on"
and "Slash and Duff dont need the GnR name" all that shit you all accused Axl Rose of being Slash and Duff just proved they are exactly what you all accused Axl of being....


Slash and Duff just proved that they are not above the same things the VR fans all accused Axl Rose of doing...

They need to worry about thier album and thier tour not if Guns n Roses songs will be put on soundtracks... you all know that...They know that... and thats not what this is about... Its about trying to start a public fued with Axl Rose on the eve of thier debut album dropping....

 :hihi: so true... SO TRUE!
but they'll never admit it  :no:
Axl is always the bad guy... even when they are attacking him  :confused:

Damn it took me an hour to get through all these posts and it i'm no more the wiser, just more confused.
 :nervous:

One thought that occurred to me was

Why do you think axl was so adamant about getting the name signed over to him during the illusion era or post illusion era as far as the money is concerned ?

I've heard the debates about how axl took advantage of slash and the other guys by using threats not to perform but what really hit me was, would i have done the same thing ?

Think about it.  During a recent interview slash and especially duff talk about how wasted and bad off they were during these years to the point they couldn't remember large chunks of the tour and allot of specific events that happened.

IMO axl probably looked around him and realized that this thing was going to end up badly and decided to take control of what he interpreted as the titanic going down steered by a bunch of junkies.  He may have also known at that time that the other guys just weren't going to be able to write and perform new songs and that creating another album with them would have been torture as the drugs may have robbed them of the mental and physical tools necessary to do so.

Maybe axl did us all a big favor by securing the name and not having it used in 3 or 4 different formats like so many groups end up doing.  Can't remember allot of the bands but some have several different lineups on tour trying to capitalize on old hits and they're all using the same name. Steppenwolf comes to mind as in John kay and as well as several other variations.

It just an opinion but after looking at snakepit and loaded axl may have saved the name much more than any of us will ever know.

Kind of ironic that many people talk of him exploiting and ruining the name by reforming with all new members but maybe in the end uncle axl knew what was best for the name.

Just my two cents, and i'm glad axl has control of the name and music cus i don't want to hear paradise city in some fertilizer commerical to make some cheap money.

haha its nice to see the VR fans eat their own words for once isnt it Eva?... If I was Axl id release the best song he has recorded as a single a week before VR's album hits the shelves....

Something soooo bad ass that it just takes over the airwaves... something to go number 1 on the Rock Charts.. Something to make the VR album go un noticed for the week or two because all Music media coverage would be on the new GnR song....

Is it possible to release only 1 song?

Dream on.  Yeah, I can just see another "Oh My God" dominating the charts.   ::)

I know because cd,maddy and the blues sound so much like omg

And Axl said that those songs would not be released as singles.  And this is a moot discussion anyhow, because I guarantee you Axl will release nothing that soon, if at all.  I just laugh at the statement that anything Axl will release will immediately set the world on fire and humble VR.  As I said, dream on.

I know right!!!

Its not like Oh My God and the others songs can compare to songs like
"Be the ball" or "Jizz da Pit" "Slither" hahahahahaha you can never compare Axl Roses "worst songs" to Slash and Duffs....in case you need a reminder of how shitty they are allow me...


Be the ball - Life is one big arcade
Be the ball - The aim is to be the game
Be the ball - The next four minutes are a total suprise,
Be the ball - Hell bent, damn, we love to drive

hahah your comparing this shit to Oh My God???

if you want to compare what you consider to be Axl's "worse songs" to Slashes and Duffs i have two albums worth of shit like the above to post....

Yea...but it would NEVER happen.  :hihi:

IMHO Slither is better than The Blues or Maddy. It has a lot more soul in it.

Let's not even get into a whats better argument. They are different styles of songs, so it is hard to say one is better than the other. I would argue that none of the new songs from either Guns or VR sound very innovative. All of the new Guns stuff sounds like something we would have heard on the illusions, at least formula wise. And the VR stuff doesn't necessarily sound as hard as some of us would like. I love all the new stuff from both bands (well, not OMG or Silk worms) but I think we have alot to look forward too on both fronts.

I agree...why does it have to be gnr vs vr...why cant we enjoy both bands music?

The way I look at is is this way...Vr will rock but gnr will rock the world...

gnr have more potential and capabilities than vr. that doesnt mean vr will suck or i hate them...its just how i see it

No problem with your opinion, you're entitled to it..

But..

How did you come to this conclusion?

No one can argue Axl's lyrical abilities but you have to admit,
his sidemen have been less than prolific to say the least.  
Paul Westerberg was the main guy in The 'Mat's, Brain's not exactly a ever been a sought after drummer and Finck and Fortus have never been known for their songwriting abilities..

VR's line up boasts of 4 members with quite amazing rock resumes and another (Kushner) who's an alum of one of the most inventive bands of the last decade (Zilch).

So in terms of potential, I'd enjoy hearing how you came to your conclusion.

 :hihi:
 :rofl:

I say the best thing Axl and the guys can do is just ignore their efforts to use GN'R to get publicity for VR.  Ever since the Vegas incident Slash realized that he can get more press talking about Axl and GN'R than he can doing anything else.

Becaus eof the osngs they have played so far. They have played different types of songs that are all good. Gnr seem like they have the flexibility and are willing and able to have a different sound rather than just a rock sound.....

Vr, and they have said this all along just want to "keep it simple, and jam". They will rock in doing that but after awhile it gets boring.

Although the members of gnr have not had any bigtime success they have underground success. Plus you forgot to mention buckethead. Him alone adds a whole dimension to gnrs sound. Im still pissed he is out but im pretty sure gnr will be keeping his material just re doing it with his replacement.

Again im not trying to say i think vr sucks. They dont. They have a great frontman and great guitarist. But they are limited. They will rock. But as of today they have done nothing that excites me or have done anything that is unique.

With gnr we will get all different kinds of elements along with the hard rock. It will be unique. Will it be good. i have no clue. that we have to wait and see. but there is a danger and excitement that coems with that. That is why gnr have more potential.

Gnr has more risk whereas vr is the safe bet. its that type of thing. Like tommy says,,,they will either be a huge success or a huge flop...time will tell

Fair enough.

Where the "different kinds of elements" excites you, I find it horribly unfocused.  

I didn't forget BH, knowing Axl's history, he'll redo all of BH's parts.  That's speculation on my part of course..

I just thought I'd post Sorelle Saidman's article about The Black Hawk Down incident for those who don't know it... I myself hadn't read it in a long while... it also touches on the Big Daddy version of SCOM that we were fortunate enough to get


"Another reason has emerged for the continuing bad blood between Guns N' Roses frontman Axl Rose and former guitarist Slash.
Rose reportedly told a fan at one of the band's recent Las Vegas concerts, where Slash was turned away at the door (allstar, Jan. 2), that he was angry at the guitarist for not "signing off" on a deal that would see a remake of the song "Welcome to the Jungle" used in the new Ridley Scott movie, Black Hawk Down.
The film's music supervisor, Kathy Nelson, confirmed to allstar that her company had been dealing unsuccessfully with Guns N' Roses' reps to include that song in the soundtrack, due out next Tuesday (Jan. 15), but she adds that she says she has no knowledge of the group's internal business.
"I found out that it's incredibly difficult to license Guns N' Roses songs," says Nelson. "We tried for the rights to the original masters, and then a re-recorded version. We came close, but it just wasn't going to happen."
Nelson adds that the movie is based on a true story and "Welcome to the Jungle" was the song playing during the real life incident, so the filmmakers were hoping to land the song for accuracy's sake. The track "Minstrel Boy" by Joe Strummer was used instead.
Sources close to the band confirm that at the best of times GN'R is notoriously reluctant to license their songs, and also note that the incident was not the first. Industry rumors of discontent circulated in 1999 over the use of "Sweet Child O' Mine" on the Big Daddy soundtrack. Rose reportedly promised the movie's producers that they could use a re-recorded version of the song, but met resistance from Slash and former bassist Duff McKagan.
The song, which "morphs" from the original into a new version with tracks added by the new band, ended up buried deep in the credits and not included on the album, amid threats of legal action. Another version recorded by Sheryl Crow, thought to have been a compromise, is also in the movie. Speculation says that this time around, the old members just wouldn't let it happen at all.
In other news, Slash has confirmed to a British publication that he did indeed disband his group, Slash's Snakepit. "You can't reinvent the start of Snakepit. That was my little thing, and it was a blast, seeing all those guys kind of doing it for the first time, but I was kind of carrying everybody through that," Slash reportedly told Classic Rock magazine, adding that he would be doing a Slash solo album in the near future.
The guitarist is currently without management or a label and was unavailable for comment. (Sorelle Saidman)

sorry I didn't save it with the date
 :peace:

How? They are only giving us samples from each album...
GNr have said:
CD will be more guitar based
the follow up will be more agressive
and the third will be electronic stuff

how is that misdirection>?

I would agree, but Axl invested a lot in buckethead in terms of being a vitol part of the band. Plus i really beleive that when bucket came they made a lot more new material. Bucket is/was a vital memebr to gnr. I think his work will be too good to leave out. I could be dead wrong but on this i have a feeling that buckets stuff will remain on the album/s.

We will see though.

I'm gone for one day and this happens.  Looks like Axl will never win.  He just needs to come out and have a long interview explaining what hes going to do and how he is going to outsell VR with Chinese Democracy.  Fuck all this negative press I"M TIRED OF IT!

What gnr really need to do is release the album. That will be the only way to silence evryone or the bashing continue

 So what this article is saying, Eva, is that the real reason Axl didn't let Slash into that show in Vegas(a gutless, scared, frightened, pathetic act, I might add) was because Slash wouldn't sign off on Axl re-recording WTTJ for BHD, so Axl threw a hissy fit & barred Slash from the show? Is that the story Eva? Cause if it is Axl is even more pathetic than I even thought, which I didn't think could be possible.

 Axl wanted to put WTTJ on Black Hawk Down, & he did put SCOM on Big Daddy, and you Axl people say he's not whoring out the GnR name but if Slash & Duff did the same they would be whoring out the name? Is that your little argument?

If it is(which is) you're a bunch of hypocrits.

Number 1:  The article doesn't say that.  You are.  And I don't agree with you.  

which brings me to Number 2....

as I've asked... please keep my name out of your posts.  I don't like your tone.

Have you guys read this? http://celebrityjustice.warnerbros.com/documents/04/05/gnr.pdf

This is original official document for the court, converted to PDF (Adobe Acrobat). You can read the following:

"Plaintiffs (ie Slash and Duff) are ignorant of the true names and capacities of defendants sued herein (...) and sue those defendants by such fictitious names."

What the fuck does that mean? Slash and Duff don't know Axl's real name?? And why defendants when I only see Axl as the defendant on the official document?

OH MY GOD THIS SHIT IS HYSTERICAL!!!
THEY ARE SAYING THAT AXL LEFT THE BAND!!!

i gotta finish reading it...
thats just at the beginning part...

this looks, right off the bat... to be a hell of a lot more than some $$ at stake...


THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY ARE THE ACTUAL REMAINING MEMBERS OF GUNS N ROSES!!!

OH THIS IS RICH!!!!

they want the fucking name...
they want ALL THE RIGHTS EXCLUSIVELY TO GNR MATERIAL

ACCORDING TO... oops sorry for the caps
according to their claim THEY are the real Guns N' Roses

hm.. then perhaps they better get going on releasing an album for Geffen  :hihi:

Yeah according to them Axl left in 1995 and they want to remain the only two owners of the Guns N' Roses name. When you read the file you find out lots of weird things, but apparently this stuff occurred since 1995, so I still wonder why they file that lawsuit right now?

They are not contesting that he owns the name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They say that about 15 million times in the brief. What they are arguing is that various recordings and licensing fees and whatnot are owned by the original partnership which was set up between the three of them. They are arguing that he effectively left that partnership by written notice on dec 30, 1995 and thus forfeited his right to make decisions based on the owned properties of the original GNR partnership. I think this could get very interesting, because if Axl did in fact offer a written resignation from the partnership which they maintained happened, they argue he then is only entitled to the share alloted to those who left the partnership which was written into the contract.

If what they are alleging is true and they can prove it, Axl may actually lose decision making authority over the back catalog in terms of licensing and whatnot.

This will get very very intersting as there is some serious money at stake. This is different from what I thought was initially going on, I guess reading the brief sheds alot of light on things.  :o

Let me repeat for those who can't read..........

They are not trying to say they own the name. They readily admit Axl does. What they are alleging is that the original partnership owned the back catalog and right to license, and that he legally signed away his right to make decisions on that stuff when he left the original partnership. And that he has been in breach the entire time when excersing authority he doesn't have in regards to properties held by the orinigal GNR partnership.


I don't wanna see anymore "OH MY GOD, THEY ARE TRYING TO SAY THEY OWN THE NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

slash and duff want it all. the songs, the films, the licensing, the vids....they want it all.

they say axl left the band and the partnership in 95.

If they can really prove he left the partnership in 95, which they claim they have a written document that can....

Axl is potentially screwed and in for a world of hurt because he will essentially have lost control of his band from 85 until he releases CD with his GNR. Not good, not good at all.

No matter what, if what they claim to have is legit, that sounds not good at all for Axl, GN'R, and a future album.

With "His" GnR?  :no:

Axl seems to be done. He is going to be poor unless he releases that album we all want to hear.  ;D Fortunately it wont be called "Guns n Roses" anymore.

why weren't duff and slash licensing the gnr name all the way back to 95 if they were the only ones left? surely they must have know that axl took the name with him but quit the GnR partnership.

That is the issue, they are claiming he has been doing things legally he wasn't able to do in regards to the partnership and thats why their suing him. Maybe after seeing how well greatest hits was doing they had a lawyer look over the old contracts and they realized they had a case with some merit that they never even realized. They aren't rocket scientists exactly, and I am going to go out on a limb and say they had no idea really until a lawyer pointed out to them that by him withdrawing from the partnership, that he actually forfeited those control rights. Like has been said, if the paper trail proves its true, he is totally screwed.

screwed and living in a condo again....hope he gets better neighbors.

why would axl sign off on something and lose say in the bands catalogue? thats bullshit!

i think slash and duff are trying to sabotage axl, if they had control we'd see gnr stuff on fuckin tv commercials and everything

lets see slash and duff put gnr stuff on tv commercials and whore it out that way, and then i dont wanna see anyone of u on here that support this shit whining about it

axl has made mistakes which he admits to, but god damn it slash and duff do not deserve a get out of jail free card, they arent little angels who were scorned by axl and im sick and tired of reading how they are the victims!

I can fucking read dude... I see that now.  I was posting what I did at the same time as i just started reading it.  It was just the impression I got right off the bat.

So yeah my post was wrong... they aren't trying to get the name...

now back the fuck off

I'm really upset and I don't need anyone on my case

we have to find this letter and destroy it....who's with me?

thats it in nutshell

There's no letter... ;D

axls a smart fuckin guy, i bet he's smarter than slash and duff combined when it comes to shit like this

i bet axl has fucked them and made them actually sign their rights away to the songs etc when they signed away the rights to the name
bet it was in very small print!

if he did that would be the ultimate fuck u and id laugh my god damn ass off!

axl isnt stupid he wouldnt sign away his say in anything

axl's letter of withdrawl  : ok:

This a great day as I see it. We finally have NEWS. Understand people? We actually are behind the scenes kinda. Its a pretty good rush.

I also agree that Slash/Duff probably didn't even know what they owned until recently.

This might actually be a good thing for CD. If Axl really did resign from the original partnership, and they have the letter to prove it, then he is going to owe them some serious cash for 9 years of all that has happened. He is going to have to release CD to get some positive cash flow coming in to pay out punitive damages.

I just think it would be the ultimate irony that Slash and Duff would end up controlling the back catalog, video's, licensing and all that because of a clerical error on his part. He was the one always nuts about getting people to sign this that and the next thing to gain control of everything, and may have inadvertantly signed away his control without even realizing it.

just because he resigned from a partnership doesnt mean he gave up his rights to anything

dave grohl and krist novoselic dissolved their partnership withcourtneylove and neither party lost control over the nirvana estate
he just decided to not be partners with them he decided to be independent where he didnt have to consult them

From what Slash and Duff's brief are saying though, that by re-signing from the partnership he forfeits any right to make decisions about what is to be done with the various properties owned by the partnership. They even say that there was a provision inthere about how partners who left would be dealt with and what they could expect to receive. It's like Slash and Duff forfeited their right to the GNR name by leaving the band, it is very possible that Axl has forfeited decision making rights by leaving the partnership according to the plaintiffs legal team. Logically, it makes sense.

The difference between your example and this one is Slash/Duff are not looking to dissolve the partnership as technically they never left. If the Original GNR partnership owns all of the aforementioned stuff, and Axl left the partnership, that leaves Slash and Duff as the only two partners left. Unless they want to dissolve it, Axl may be up a creek without a paddle because if the court rules the partnership owns that stuff, he has no way of contesting what they do with it as he signed away he veto powers by leaving the partnership. He may have actually outsmarted himself. :confused:

not true slash and duff didnt forfeit their rights by leaving gnr

axl made them all turn their rights over to him one night at a concert or he wouldnt perform so they signed away the rights to the name then

i still dont think that will hold up, i dont think u can sign away your rights to something like that, why would he? god damn if he did he will be the biggest fuckin loser and idiot of all time

Well.....if he really signed a document that says effective Dec 30, 1995 that he was leaving the partnership (and that is the document they claim they have) that sounds like signing away your rights in a decision making process. I mean that would be like Bill Gates resigning from the board at Microsoft, he might still own a part of the company(as Axl does still own part of those properties owned by the partnership) but he loses all veto powers by resigning from the company. That is effectively what Axl did by leaving the partnership if what those guys are saying they can prove is true.

I agree, if there really is a paper trail that can prove this he is beyond retarded, but to be honest, nothing surprises me anymore. Maybe he figured owning the name was enough and thought that would be all he needed when he left the original GNR partnership. :no:

Naupis, I think you are on the mark here.  The truth of the matter is that the years 1993 to the early part of this decade are a total loss as far as the members of GNR go.  Their lives were just too fucked up to focus all that much on music.  If Slash and Duff - admittedly not the world's smartest men, sorry guys - are only realizing they had a legitimate argument now, then better late than never.  

Stupid Axl, all he has to do is CHANGE THE NAME OF THE BAND.  The point of the whole thing is this - GUNS N' ROSES IS DEAD, LONG LIVE GUNS N' ROSES.

This is just so uncool for Slash and Duff to put up with being screwed out of royalties out of Axl's childish spite for them.  For the sake of GNR fans, for the sake of their legacy, these two men finally came to the conclusion they had to save the name of Guns N' Roses somehow for this disaster called Chinese Democracy.  Sure, they're going to reap rewards, but they earned it, for Christ's sakes.  It was their blood, sweat and tears.  Money is a big factor, but it couldn?t possibly be the only thing driving this.  Please, Axl-ites, do not hate these men because they seek their fair share.  If you were getting screwed like this, anyone of you would do exactly the same thing.

From snakepit.org Slash's official site
last updated April 2004

(http://img28.photobucket.com/albums/v85/gnraxlrosette/lawsuit/f8ff1ac2.jpg)

www.snakepit.org (http://www.snakepit.org)

Thanks for informing us that Slash is no longer in GNR, your deft detective-work is much appreciated.  : ok:

By the way, thats not Slashs official site (I believe that would be SlashOnline.com), its an authorized fan site.

LOL  ;D

Well now we all know this - matter closed.

This may be a bank breaker for Axl. Maybe. Remember also in legal fights the one with the most money is usually the winner. Lawyers will suck you dry and often times people have to back down if things are drawn out too long for them. So I would think that Axl has an advantage.

Axl may be a smart guy, but there are some smart lawyers out there too.

IMHO it doesn't sound to good for Axl, from what is presented on this forum.

The stakes are huge here. Duff and Slash are suing for

1. lost monies from licensing deals that axl shot down
2. share of monies from Real Cancun that axl took for licensing PC  that he didnt not share
3. share of monies totally 6 million in royalties not shared
4. punitive damages and determent monies b/c axl unlawfully acted as executer of the old GnR partnership


it's not a 1 million lawsuit, it is left openended with a potential of exploding into several millions of dollars. I dont' see how axl could pay this off if he loses.

He would just have to release multiple albums and hope they sell to raise the kind of cash he may need. Because the punitive damages could potentially be outrageous.

Axl will dispute that HE left the band i would imagine. I also recall it being said that axl paid out the old members for their shares of the band. If slash and duff accepted monies for their shares then it doesn't matter if he left or not because he would have effectively bought them out. it will be interesting to see if those two fuzzy addicts ever accepted a buy out at any point.

Well, for the parts that I have read so far, Slash and duff state that they are the only remainig members of guns n' roses, and this part is not only stated once but many times until the page 7. What could it mean?
so here are my points:
If they are the remaining members, they should own the name, don' they, or atleast that seems one of the things what they are fighting for?

If GNR is treated like a company or "General Partnership" then everything that is done by the company ("GNR") they will have the control to use it, in that case:

if the new songs are considered GNR songs or signed under the name of the company, wouldn't they control all those songs?

why they keep calling "Original GNR", if this is supposed to be a "General Partnership" or a company, and also since they own the name and remember Axl left and he doesn't have the rights to use that name?

Peace

In Time slash and duff will own the gnr name and all axls fucked aroudn so much with the name and lieing and shit about time thay put him right  : ok: well done lads  :peace:

Wrong. The lawsuit says 1. Slash and Duff should have all the  decision making ability for the Original Gnr partnership-Axl gave up his rights in 1995 by opting out of the partnership. Axl still owns the name and can use it, but he does NOT have a right to make all the decisions on the back catalog. He has no rights according to Slash because he opted out of the partnership. 2. The unnamed defendants 1-40 is  a way for the attorney to add future defendants to the suit if discovery reveals more parties at fault-Axl's management, Beta, who the hell knows. THIS IS A MAJOR POWER PLAY ON THE PART OF SLASH AND DUFF. This dispute is over way more than a million dollars.

"People have worked very, very hard, my former friends, in order for me not be here today"

Youngun, you need to realize that Axl is a spiteful, vindictive guy as well. This is a mess with EVERYONE at fault. This shit needed to happen and has to ultimately be sorted out before any of the back catalog unreleased stuff/box sets/etc can be released. This also may disturb the current relationship between "GNR" the entity and Geffen. It is truly "on" boys and girls.

Comical.............verrryyyyyyy comical.  AxL, Slash & Duff are 3 peas in a whiney, bitchy pod.  Defending one against the other is like comparing apples to apples, dust to dust.


Be sure to waste your time at the dull-ass 3-ring circus........

The next interesting document will be Axl's Answer to the Complaint. He will probably have 30 days or so to respond unless he gets an extension from the plaintiff's (doubtful). Hopefully, we will have access to his Answer.

The problem with this whole thing is that it is entirely too personal. Slash/Duff and the others have been openly against Axl's continued use of the name even though he owns it. Now that they might have a way to really hurt him (both emotionally as losing control would just eat him alive, and econmically as the amount of punitive damages awarded to Slash/Duff for 9 years of this would be astromnomical) they are going to do everything in their power to do so to get revenge against him. I honestly believe he would not have half of the problems, both image wise and litigous if he would just let the damn name go. He always talks about how its never really been done like this before, and all the problems he is having is reasons 1 through a million why it hasn't. Slash and Duff are no angels in this as they are certainly out for blood at this point, but the thing that got this so personal is that damn name. We will always think of Axl as GNR regardless, but he could easily make it on his own without the name because essentially, this band is GNR in name only. GNR is, was and always will be Izzy/Duff/Steve/Axl and Slash. Saying otherwise is like 2 + 2= 5. You can believe that if you want, but a tiger doesn't change his stripes. I just hate that things had to get like this as I had always hoped for a true reunion at some point down the road and that is certainly never going to happen now. :no:

Naupis, you are exactly right. A comparable scenario to Axl could be Ozzy. Axl could make it on his own with this new band. Especially, if he could have kept and primarily featured Buckethead. Bucket would have been Axl's Randy Rhoades and people would have dug it. The whole thing is fucked up now because of Geffen's funding of a "GNR" project. They are going to want to release Chinese under the Gnr brand for a multitude of reasons.

i really had thought axl had paid out the old members for his taking control of GnR. i really thought he had control over the catalog, films, and what not.

From what it sounds like in the Brief, He did pay them for use of the name. But the partnership is what owns and makes the decisions based on the back catalog, licensing and other whatnot. By legally pulling out of that as he did, he gave up all veto and decision making authority he previously had by being a partner in it. He will still monetarily recieve what his share, but the killer to him is he will lose any say in the decision as to what is used by whom, because he is not part of the decision making process of the Original GNR partnership.

He did take control of the name and can market it and do with it what he pleases, and the others were paid for that. From the sounds of it though, maybe Axl didn't realize by pulling out of the partnership, he was forfeiting certain controls he assumed he would have just because he owned the name. It will certainly be intersting to see how he answers the suit, and we already have a no comment from his management team so there are certainly be careful as they go forward or they would have already referred to this as "frivilous".

Hey Guys...

Since this is getting kind of long and the link to the actual lawsuit changes a lot from what was originally being discussed in the first ten or so pages, I created a new topic. I think I speak for the board when I say it would be appreciated if the discussion could move over to the fresh topic.

I don't get this...Slash and Duff owns GNR and has for the past nine years let Axl have his way regarding GNR buisness and now the suddenly want it all back...EVERYTHING (including paper clips) that has been stolen from them? How fucked up have they've been? Axl and his legal team have been doing unathorized GNR buisness for nine years? Intentionally or unintentionally? Hard to tell from our point whats legally wrong o right int the matter but...at this time? Slash and Duff have wifes and kids and are supposed to have carreers and now they want it all. Wrong or right?

No, you got it right.  The only question is why all of a sudden now?
You have to laugh though at the lawyers representing Slash and Duff....just by the name, you can tell they are shady.  And what is that figure on the first page?  The price it cost to file this thing?

Word of advice to everyone on here.......think twice about going into business with your friends ;)

Excellent point... a good portion of that lawsuit seeks punative damages, which definitely imply intent. It's going to be pretty hard for Slash/Duff to claim Axl HAS been intentionally making Old GN'R decisions illegally, and they (Slash/Duff) are just figuring it out despite obvious involvement disagreeing with Axl's decisions at the time they were made. The center of the lawsuit - Axl is no longer involved in the GN'R partnership - may hold some basis, but as far as the punative aspect, I do not think Slash/Duff have a leg to stand on.

Let's continue this in the other thread (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=12227).



/jarmo