Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was thinking about "Look at your game girl" the hidden track on the Spaguetti and started to search some info about it.. I found this site:

http://www.charliemanson.com/music.htm

At first I was wondering does Charles Manson sing ? and I found all the info about the Lie album and I even found the song on Kazaa. This is the part about GNR:

[ "The Spaghetti Incident" by Guns N' Roses.  This originally had an unlisted 13th song at the very end which was written by Manson.  Apparently newer copies have removed the Manson song.  There was a big stink over this due to Manson possibly making money off of it (he had written the material before the murders and after he had been released from prison).  Charlie could have made $62,000 for every million copies sold, but in the end, it was decided the money would go to Frykowski's son (who has reportedly passed away since).  Axl Rose has appeared in concert (and the video "Estranged") wearing a Manson t-shirt. ]

I want to ask you... why do you think Axl covered Manson ?

I like the song... but I think they covered only because it was from Manson and maybe they want to start some controversy but when I read that Manson could have recieved money from that recording I thought It would suck... and now that Axl has removed the song from the album he seems to be regret for it.

What do you think ?

It was Marilyn Manson that turned Axl onto Charles Manson and suggested he listen to his stuff.

The song is absolute shite and the guy is just a fucked up old man.

I have no idea why Axl put that song on the album. Only he knews that. Maybe it was for controversy and to help sell more albums.  

In a statement and some interviews Axl speaks about how he discovered the song and why he covered it.  His brother liked to play "Who sings this tune" whenever they would have a get together and would play an obscure song on the stereo and they would all guess as to who was singing.  This one time Stuart played "Look At Your Game Girl" for Axl and Axl really liked the song and could relate to the lyrics cause of what he was going through at the time.  When he found out it was Charlie Manson he was very surprised.  
He covered the song cause he could relate to the lyrics and thought it would be a song some people may be interested in hearing sung by someone else (Axl).

Also, Marilyn Manson CLAIMS he was the one responsible for turning Axl on to Manson.  This is not true.  Axl had been wearing a Charlie Manson t-shirt on stage since 1991.  He also appears in a Charlie Manson shirt in the Tokyo Videos which were recorded in February 1992 -more than a year before Axl ever met Marilyn at the U2 concert and had a conversation with him.  Also in some early photos Axl can be seen wearing  a Zeppelin t-shirt with a bunch of crazy images on it, including an image of Manson.

If you want I can go dig up Axl's statement about "Look At Your Game Girl" and post it on here.

Written by: "Look At Your Game Girl" was written by Charles Manson.
Written in: "Look At Your Game Girl" was written in or before 1963.

Performed live: "Look At Your Game Girl" was never performed live.

In Their Own Words

Axl: It's come to my attention that some people have taken offence to a particular song, "Look At Your Game, Girl," on our new album The Spaghetti Incident?.

Slash: Stuart, Axl's brother, had a copy of the Manson cassette, and that particular song had significant lyrical matter, especially since Manson was singing it. We were a little bit shy about doing it, because we didn't want anybody to pin us on a Manson thing.

Axl: Personally, I liked the lyrics and the melody of the song. Hearing it shocked me and I thought there might be other people who would like to hear it.

Gilby: Axl played me the Manson song, "Look at Your Game Girl", and I said, "That's pretty good." Then he told me what it was and I just went, "What?"

Axl: I like the words because, to me, it's about a woman who has thrown things away. She thinks she's gaining love but basically she's gaining sadness. It was very fitting for a personal situation I happened to be in. The song talks about how the girl is insane and playing a mad game. I felt that it was ironic that such a song was recorded by Charles Manson, someone who should know the inner intricacies of madness.

Axl: The reason we didn't list that song on our album is we wanted to downplay it. We don't give any credit to Charles Manson on the album; it's like a hidden bonus truck.

Slash: There's a rumor that he didn't write it. I got a phone call from someone who said it was written by Dennis Wilson and somebody else. To this day we still don't know who the fuck wrote it. We did it anyway, but we didn't want to put its title and Charlie Manson's name on the record. None of us are into that for a serial killer's sake. We didn't want to give him the credit.

Axl: It is my understanding that the song was written by Dennis Wilson. To what extent Charles Manson is involved in the publishing, I'm not aware.

Slash: It's sort of a parody almost.

Axl: He's a pop cartoon icon of absolutely how far off the edge you can go, which I don't have any desire to go that far

Axl: I liked the lyrics of the song, you know, I also thought that it was something that people hadn't heard, it was the missing part of the puzzle, I mean almost everything about Charles Manson has been made public, but this was never public on a really big scale, to my knowledge, and just thought that people would be interested in hearing it, but even one of the victim's son, who is getting some of the money, supposedly, was talking to the media about people worshipping Charles Manson, and I was getting a vibe that people were trying to paint a picture that I worship Charles Manson, now it's exactly for me, the opposite.

Slash: It's really weird, coz when the song was done and it was recorded and released there was no attention drawn to it and all the attention that has been given it so far, has come from the media that's been opposing it.

Slash: There was a time when we were planning on pulling it because of that fact that it was, I don't know, the messages were all crossed as far as what we were really doing. I mean basically what we did was a track that had something to do lyrically with the band, you know.

Slash: I don't even play on "Look at your game girl", it's a guy named Carlos...

Tom Zutaut: The Manson thing was much more problematic than "One in a Million". I could never understand why that song was so important to Axl.
 
 

from
   http://www.gnrinfo.tk/

Still why did Axl wear Manson t-shirts? Where do you even get a Manson t-shirt?

Cdogg,
Good work.  Saved me a lot of time and effort having to go dig up the quotes  [ok]

The Manson shirt that Axl wore on tour in '93 was sold by a company called "Zooport Riot Gear" and they were based in New Port Beach, California.  They sold (sell?) surfing and skateboarding related equipment and clothes.  The shirt itself is a jocular shirt that uses the quote from the film Apocalypse Now "Charlie Dont Surf."  In this instance it can sort of have a double meaning -the meaning from the film -and/or Charlie Manson really doesnt surf -the guy is in jail for life -so make the most of your freedom and enjoy the waves duuuuuuude.  ;)

As for where to find the shirt -I have not seen many around these days, but back in the day Zooport Riot Gear sold them at their store in New Port Beach -not sure if it is still around.  They also distributed them to a lot of "underground/cult" t-shirt and clothing stores.  I saw them a lot here in NYC in the West Village years ago.  People have also recently have had them on eBay for sale -not sure if they are from Zooport Riot Gear, but they are basically the same image/style as Zooport's, and they are listing them as "Marilyn Manson (or sometimes Charles Manson) Axl Rose T-shirt".

I always thought that the reason it said charlie dont surf was cause of his fall out with the beach boys

 [peace]

I actually just finished making a music video for this song.  I simply took a bunch of clips from Steph's HSN appearance last night, mixed in a few clips of Axl playing guitar from some shows in '93, and layed the track for "Look At Your Game, Girl" over it.
Look for it to debut on the new Headbanger's Ball on MTV next week  :P

 [rofl] yeah right

I also have that Manson shirt with "Charlie Don't Surf" on the back. I finally understood that joke after I saw Apokalypse Now. For me, I think Manson isn't a too bad musician. Well, his guitar playing isn't too exciting, but his lyrics are quite good, especially on "Lie" and "Way Of The Wolf".
I think there's nothing bad in listening to his music. We also listen to Richard Wagner, who was, in my opinion, the greatest composer ever. But does anybody talk about the fact he was a fascist or that his family was friends with Hitler? No, just because, that are two different things. They were (are) persons you don't want to deal with, but their music is another part of the story.


/lastroots

From nigeldick.com (Director of Welcome To The Jungle Video):

PART FOUR (Of Welcome To The Jungle Preliminary concept 7/10/87)
Axel is in a seedy hotel bedroom with a girl. They are watching a number of TV sets. Once again the screens are filled with violent images. Amongst these images we must include Manson, the Nightstalker and other 'key' figures. I would suggest that this room is built on a set. (To be shot in a studio day 2).


"A word from your sponsor: I guess I didn't know how to spell Axl's name properly - I hadn't met the band when I wrote this! The treatment was basically handed to me by Alan Niven over the phone and I put it in order and typed it out, which is the way Alan and I would work, I guess that's why I typed the phrase 'key' figures the way I did. It's interesting to note Axl's early fascination with Manson even before the release of the first album"

Loads of places sell them.

I always thought that the "Charlie Don't Surf" thing was a joke in relation to his connection with the Beach Boys?

If anybody would like to buy the Manson shirt, it can be found here:

http://www.rottencotton.com/index2.htm

Disclaimer: If you are easily offended, or offended period, then do not go to that site.

This brings up apoint that I actually don't like about Axl.  I really can't stand the way he puts out controversial songs like One in a Million and the Manson song and then when he gets heat for them he backtracks and removes the songs from the cds.  It shows a real weakness of character to me.  Either have the balls to release the material the way you want and then stand by it, or don't release it at all in the first place.  Releasing it and then pulling it because you are getting criticized is absolutely weak.

/Pretty

Actually, I think that it shows that Axl dosn't do things just to be controversial.

Also, isn't it mainly the record companies decision wether the song stays on as well?

And, that thing about One in A Million being removed: ha.

Does anybody actually own a copy of Lies that dosn't feature it?

I bought my copy ten or so years after it was released, and funnily enoug it had One in A Million on it...

Watch ApokaLYPSE Now if you wanna understand the CHARLIE DONT SURF joke.



/lastroots

First of all, what a great topic. I can't believe this hasn't been discussed more, because it really reveals a lot about Axl's mind.

I think Axl has these great big moments in his mind (where he spends most of his time) then tries to "recreate" them for the world.

Lots of times it all goes wrong. "Look at Your Game" and last year's tour (which Axl himself said would prove all the doubters wrong - I'm sure he believed that when he was sitting at home, protected from the whole world) stand out.

I think Axl is very confident in the comfort of his own imagination, but out in the world he's a bit of a frightened child. I'm not saying that as an insult but an observation.

With the Manson shirt, especially wearing it to court, he probably thought it would make him look really dramatic and interesting and bold and unafraid of the forces against him at that moment. What he didn't realize was how self-centered it made him look.

As far as the song, it's my understanding that he recorded that song without the band's knowing about it. (This contradicts what some of them say in that "In Their Own Words" post, but I'm pretty sure they didn't find out it was on the record until after it was released.)

So it was probably a moment of personal indulgence, and probably wouldn't have stood up the test of scrutiny by the band. And when the shitstorm over the songs hit, only then, I think, was Axl able to understand the moral problem with it and see it in a rational way.

But he never lets himself see the rational side of things because he surrounds himself with people who won't challenge him in any serious way, and so his grand ideas are often doomed to fail in the light of day.  

Same here. Also didn't Axl have more then one Charles Manson shirt? Besides the one with Charlies Don't Surf on it.

That makes three of us who linked the shirt with the Beach Boys  [ok]

What's the deal with Axl and Charles Manson?  I saw an old concert pic where Axl is wearing a t-shirt with Manson's face on it.  Then there's the addition of "Look At Your Game Girl", which Manson wrote, on the end of TSI.  What gives?  I think Axl just put that on TSI to create contraversy, but that plus the t-shirt is something else.  Does anybody know what Axl said about all of this?

As far as I remember, Axl heard Look At Your Game Girl because his brother played it for him. He could relate to the song and wanted to cover it. I don't think he knew who it was by at first, he liked the song and then his brother told him it was by Manson.

Another thing, the royalties from the song went to the victims families (or at least one of them).



/jarmo

as for the shirt..i think it was a joke..charlie don't surf..one of the beach boys promised manson a record deal...when he didn't come through with the promise manson went crazy...many believe that why he started what he started

In an interview he did in '94, he said that he wore the shirt to show that he wasnt a bad guy, that this guy was really a bad guy. He said that he also liked the humor in the line "Charlie Dont Surf." For the song, he said that they didnt know for sure if the song was by Charles, they heard it was by this other guy, the name I cant remember, but he said they were giving all the money they made off that song to the  one of the victim's family. As Jarmo said.

Just for anyone intrested Manson got  $66,000 from it...

I'm not sure it drove him to anything - but yes, Manson was almost in the Monkees, at least Manson says so - others think is was an urban legend - hard to say.... he lived with Brian Wilson of the beach Boys for a while, however sources say Manson was in prison during the auditions.
Otherwise the Charlie Don't Surf reference in Apocalypse Now is kind of funny

Is there any way we could verify that information? I never heard of that...

GNR gave Manson royalties? Thats sick

why not? It is Manson's song..he did very bad things but still it's Manson's song.

I read an article in a latest music book under song writing and they had mention in a high lighted box saying that Manson recieve $ 66,000 from his song "look at the game girl" when guns n rose use it on the cd. As far the as book it was just giving examples how song writers can hit big when a huge artisit like gnr uses it on a cd. The book had nothing to do with manson story just stating facts about song writiers. Now  that I have look more into each site  about this they each have alittle different account. but I would say atleast somewhere to $60,000 to $66,000...  The reason why he got the money his b/c he was a song writer way before he did the crime so therefore he still has right to do that. Also I think gnr didn't do much of a search to find out who really song the song therefore when it was put out it was too late. Im sure they would have scap it if they knew it was a manson song. ... The song is off from one of his 1970 record...

Intrested stuff when it comes to things like this

I may be wrong, but I think that they knew very well that it was Manson song. It don't happen like "ooh this is a good song, (don't know who has done it and don't care to find out) but let's put it on the Guns and Roses record"

I agree with you 100% on that, Funkenstein.  I think it was a deliberate ploy to create contraversy.  What are the chances that somebody would be listening to a song totally at random and find that it's by Charles Manson?

I've never liked those "hidden" tracks on the end of albums, because they usually suck and provide a boring finish.  The only exception is that piano bit on the end of U2's "All I Want Is You", which is better than the song.

Im just wondering why like the never ending "One In a Million" saga...that "Look At Your Game Girl" is going to be deleted from future pressings of TSI? I mean yeah Charles Manson wrote it 25 years ago or whatever, but they knew that when TSI was recorded, I mean yeah its a "hidden" track but do any of you actually know what the song means, other than it was written by Charles Manson? Personally, if anything was going to be done it should have been done in 93' when TSI came out, why make such a big deal about it now?? :-\

Charles Manson was getting royalties from it. But I think Sharon Tates family gets a huge percentage from any income he gets from a civil lawsuit. But He still gets paid from every TSI? cd that's sold.

Nothing wrong with the song...just the writer of such song happened to tortured and killed a dime of people just because he believed he had "a cause". Why delete that song now? well, it's never too late, he should've never covered it to begin with.

Yeah just wanted to add that under no circumstance does Manson keep the money from anything that is being put out by someone. I don't know what's the deal with it being removed when  other bands have used his material.

Yeah, I remember hearing about the royalties thing butI also remember an interview where Gilby or Matta or someone asked Axl what that song meant...does anyone actually know the story about that song?

It isn't Sharon Tate's family that gets royalties, it's the son of one of the other victims.  Can't remember his name off the top of my head.

There was a segment on the "Secret History of Rock n Roll" dedicated to this topic.

I'm pretty sure the Tate family gets something from it too.

I actually like the song. The only meaning of it that I get is its about a girl who likes to manipulate.

Charles isn't a bad singer or songwriter. I've heard his album before.

It's a very average song, if they want to remove it so be it, it added nothing to the album.

Istill like thissong and though it's not really in the same class as many others in TSI, it's still pretty ok

Well how true this is i don't know.  But in Marilyn Mansons biography, "The long hard road out of hell".  Manson reckons that when he met Axl (when manson was just Brian warner following NIN around) they were talkin and he suggested Axl should listen to some of Charles mansons recordings.  

He says the next thing he knew there was this storm of controversy about GN'R covering a Charles Manson song.  Quite interesting... I really like the song theres no shame in liking it and theres no shame in Axl singing it.  Doesn't mean you in anyway support the actions of the writer - sadly it's another case of media stirring up a reaction.  

Well put, I have to say that of all the songs on TSI, Look at Your Game Girl is one of my favorites, better than all but one or two other songs.  

Liking a song does not mean that you support everything that the author has ever done in his/her life.  Obviously, because although I like GNR I don't like a lot of things about one W. Axl Rose.  

If Axl doesn't have the balls to stand behind a song he liked and decided to cover, then that's just one more thing that I don't like about my favorite musical artist.

It's bad because it's slow and boring

i like the fact that he did cover the song....and i hate the fact that they are goin to delete it from TSI...it's just a song and it could mean anything to anybody...Manson or not it's a great song and shouldn't be deleted

[quote author=Slash N' Dave
i like the fact that he did cover the song....and i hate the fact that they are goin to delete it from TSI...it's just a song and it could mean anything to anybody...Manson or not it's a great song and shouldn't be deleted

Totally agree.  I have to agree with something else Marilyn manson has said about Axl and that is that as strong a charactor and defiant as Axl rose can be - obviously in his writing he expresses himself and does n't compromise.  Yet on two occasions on their most controversial releases "One in a million" and "Look at your game", he backs down and appologises.

And now they are deleted off future releases. When it's important for supposedly intelligent society, too see from his explanations (which we have all read/heard).  He explains himself so clearly, why can't people understand?

Maybe he is planning on a stand alone double single with those two tracks lol (joke) imagine that!

at the end of look at your game girl Axl says "thanks Jazz" and then clicks his fingers like he's made a mistake and says "Jack" anybody know why? ???

I think it's "Thanks Chas".



/jarmo

whos Chas? then

Charles Manson?



/jarmo

stupid me of course

Surely he doesn't thank Charles Manson...ewww....that makes me feel ill, what was Axl thinking, the song is crap as it is without thanking a serial killer in it too.....

To preserve my respect for Axl i will believe he is referring to a producer or enginner or something....

"Jack" is a sly reference to Ole Blue Eyes himself, Frank Sinatra.


When Frankie did his duets album with such alumni as Bono, Axl really wanted to be on it but Frank said he'd never sing with such a whining little suck as Axl Rose.

This, of course, pissed Axl off immensely.  :rant: :rofl:

Hence the 'Jack' thing at the end of that murderers song.  : ok: :peace: :beer: :smoking:

I do believe he says, "Thanks, Chaz"  (Chaz being a common shortened name for Charles)

the lyrics are written by manson, and he wore that manson shirt the uyi tour, why wouldn't it be charles???  ???

i guess axl didn't support the act of killing several people, but there are other things about manson that facinated and inspired and or related too axl aswell as the other bandmembers..

ofcourse it's manson, the producers and engineers and the somethings are thanked in the booklet...

and i must say that i enjoy that song, one of the top five on tsi imo

 :peace:

i happen to like that song a lot. charles manson may be a serial killer but he did make a cool song. and just because someone likes his song doesn't necessarily mean they aprove of his killings...

Before preparing "The Spaghetti Incident" every member's picked up his favourite song (or just the song he'd like to perform). Axl's choice was "Look at your game, girl" written by Manson. So I guess that's the best explanation.

Is that so?

How do u know that?

Although, probably a poor choice, I think the whole Manson thing, the song, t-shirt, was a joke to Axl.  He had gotten such a bad reputation during the tour that I think he thought it was darkly humourous to align himself with the famed cult leader.  

Axl heard the song, liked it and apparently he could relate to it. Then he found out who had written it.



/jarmo

Apparently Marilyn Manson claims that he turned Axl on to "Helter Skelter".  There is a quote from Manson on this site accusing Axl of taking his idea.  But anyway, people in the industry say that if Charles Manson hadn't gone crazy, he probably would have made it as a musician.  I guess the guy was pretty talented.  BTW Helter Skelter, I believe was his bands name.  Correct me if I'm wrong. :smoking: :smoking:

for starts (if true), great piece of info!!!! how the hell do you know that??..from where have you heard this kind of story and do you have anything that backs this story up??

i thought axl wrote the melody to that song  ??? so are you sure he actually heard it and then coverd it? i thought he read the lyrics and then made a melody for it.. i don't think manson ever recorded that song, but correct me if i'm wrong ???

if manson recorded it, have you heard it? whats it like?

As far as I remember, Axl's brother was the one who played the song to him.



/jarmo

Then I don't know. Ask Axl, he knows the answer. :yes:

yeah, I recall that also

and Manson did record the song 'cause I've downloaded the song from this board and heard it..(don't remember if I still got it)

could you please let me have it if you still got it? that would be highly appreciated

[ok]

I'm tried to find it, but it's not in my mp3 folder, so I guess I've deleted it..but I keep on searching it. And I got it from this board, so I guess here are members that still got it.

I found it. so how I get this file to you..? (I't works with mediaplayer)

and, now that I started to think about it, theres not really a proves, that the man singing on this song, is Charles Manson...that's was only told on board, that this is a legit recording. (anyone is familiar with the voice of Manson..? )

Charlies did record it... i saw a cd in the record store of charles manson and it had the tune on it...

I have a charles manson cd... live from san quinten.... Uh i certainly don't think he was destin for musician success... its not very good

thanks for info! I have only this one song..so I guess this is the best of his material..

thanks for the song john, i don't know if it is manson or not, i've never heard his voice before.. the tune tho gave me chills down my spine... creepy as hell
 :nervous:

Surely he doesn't thank Charles Manson...ewww....that makes me feel ill, what was Axl thinking, the song is crap as it is without thanking a serial killer in it too.....

To preserve my respect for Axl i will believe he is referring to a producer or enginner or something....

No, no, no
it's a great song!
Artfull
Rose's voice in it is something worth listening without all technical background and improvements
Feels like in a theatre, gives the chill

And I actually always thought that he said: thanks JUST... Jack!

According to Manson he did.. Im reading the book "The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell" the Book by Marylin Manson and even he has negative things to say about the main man W Axl Rose...  Ill post it..



So what happened with Guns N' Roses was that Trent took me to a U2 concert one night and backstage I met Axl Rose. He was very neurotic and was telling me all about his psychological problems, his split personalities, and I felt like, "This guy's a total fucking flake." Being the oversealouse type, I started telling him about my band anyway. And I said, "You know we do this song "My Monkey" and its an adaptation of a Charles Manson song off his album LIE"
 
  And he's like, "I never heard of that before."
I told him, "You should check out the album, it's cool." And lo and behold six months later Guns N' Roses put out The Spaghetti Incident and Axl Rose covers "Look at Your Game Girl" from the LIE album.

  Then he started getting all that heat from Sharon Tates sister and everybody. When our album was finished after that, we had the song "My Monkey" on it but I had this five-year-old kid Robert Pierce sing on it. That was the great irony: Here's a kid thats singing a song that to him is an innocuous nursery rhyme but to everybody else is this horrible thing.

   After we turned the album in, I got this call from Trent and John Malm, who's Trent's manager and runs Nothing Records. And they're like, "Listen, are you willing to out your album with out the song "My Monkey" on it?"
 
   I asked, "Why?!"
And they said, "Well, Inerscope is having problems because of the shit that Axl Rose has got. He's had to donate the proceeds of the song to the victims' families."

    I said, "Well I dont have a problem with that. Just explain to me whats going to happen." (The entire song wasn't Charles Manson's song. I just borrowed a few lyrics and the rest were my own.)
   In the end Inerscope insisted that we take the song off. I said, "No." So they told us they weren't going to put the album out.



BTW Manson did say he wanted to cover "One in a Million"

The phrase 'taken out of context' springs to mind

Why would Axl, a very secretive, proud and private man start talking about personal problems to a total stranger?

Could it be Axl heard Manson was deranged and was joking with him? ''yeah i'm mad too''

As ever i will take this with a pinch of salt.

Regarding One In A Million.. I remember mid-late 90s, Manson said something like.. he wanted to cover One In A Million cos he was baffled as to how Axl could do it, then not back up his words.. something like that.. so he wanted to cover the song.. I dunno.. some sorta weird irony I guess..

Well Manson didnt back up what he said he'd do now, did he?  : ok:

and why would you say that Axl is a very secretive, proud and private man? do u know how he is on social event? i met some rock stars and football players, that in 5 minutes are telling you about their personal problems (i wasn't talking to them as a fan, just a friend of a friend).

Er..... ??? ::)

The ten year virtual silence for the secretive part

His determination and self belief he exudes for the proud part, recording One in a million despite knowing the flak he would take

That he doesn't even go to his own birthday party's and keeps himself to himself for the bit about being private


What ur problem mate? What i said was fairly obvious - u don't need to have meet Axl, its simple common sense......

From my page GnRinfo.tk:

Slash: Stuart, Axl's brother, had a copy of the Manson cassette, and that particular song had significant lyrical matter, especially since Manson was singing it. We were a little bit shy about doing it, because we didn't want anybody to pin us on a Manson thing.

This sort of backs up something I read once, that Axl said that they used to have a game at his house where they would play music and guess what it was. Stuart once brought in the tape of Charles Manson and played it and no one knew the song "Look At Your Game Girl" (which is track number one), but Axl really liked it. It surprised him that Manson wrote it.

Well, I do believe that story. Sorry for not having the complete quote on the page. It sometimes sucks that I didn't collect everything.

Marilyn wishes he could create the controversies that Axl has.  So what if he told him about the album?  He doesn't own the rights to it.  

Marilyn was mad that Axl wasn't defending Manson when he did the song.  He was asked what would he do if Manson were released and he said he would take him in and try and help him.  Just ridiculous stuff.  As for covering OIAM, whatever, he'll never do it, he's all talk.  

You're kidding , right?

Not saying it's a good thing by any means, but the scope of Manson's controversies casts a shadow far more reaching than any rock star of the past 25 years..

It's not even close.

Really...

Not only that, but Mansons probably a little more satisfied with being the ire of the religious rights hatred than being viewed as an ignorant racist.

No, I'm not.  Marilyn's done a few shocking, visual things, that were very carefully calculated.  Marilyn always reminds me of "Revenge of the Nerds", he's an attention whore.  The shit that Axl caused (which I'm not saying is good either) he did without even trying.  Axl is always be more famous than Manson in that respect.  You're right, it's not even close.  


The only reason he would want to cover OIAM is for attention.  Period.  He said Axl didn't defend his viewpoints in the song, lol, I'd really like to hear how Manson would defend it.  Anyway, he'll never do it.  Marilyn likes to pretend he's this anti-Christ, but he's quite tame, he's no G.G. Allin, he's not going to eat his own feces for the sake of controversy.  lol

I'm in absolute disagreement.

Manson has been under fire from every religious group known to man, had concerts cancelled do to public and political outcry, sued for putting his genetalia on a security guards head and inadvertantly blamed for inspiring the Columbine shootings.  Again these aren't good things by any stretch of the imagination, but far more contervesial than putting a questionable song on a record and having a hand in a riot or two..

Well, I guess we'll just have to disagree then.  Being accused of Satanism by religious groups is old hat.  Ozzy, Alice, Judas Priest and a host of others dealt with that years ago.  And pulling out his unit?  Not unheard of.  I don't hate Marilyn, he's okay, but he's hardly a revolutionary.  Neither is Axl, but his "events" were unplanned and more well-known.  Has Marilyn ever pushed a grand piano out a window?

No problem with disagreeing, it's an interesting comparison for sure.

Not sure about Manson and a grand piano, I'm sure he's had his rock star moments nonetheless.  Read his book if you get a chance, it's a great read.

I know this for sure, neither Axl nor Manson has came close to the Zeppelin mudshark incident...

This is true.  Moreover being accused of Satanism is really not as 'taboo' as being accused of racism.  How many major artists have done the Satanistic thing in form or another?  Quite a few.  How many major artists have released a song dissing immigrants and niggers?  erm... besides Axl, I cant think of another.  Someone help me out.

Another issue is that Columbine brought attention to MManson - it heightened his sense of shock.  Axl didnt need a Columbine to do that - his songs & antics alone were enough to cause controversy.

Finally, in the mid 90's I personally saw MManson as something of a gimmick.  That has changed since then.  He has become more of an artist and less of a shock rocker.  With regards to causing controversy, being gimmicky has less impact than being in the biggest band on the planet.

Riots at concerts and questionable song content/inclusion is old hat as well.  Nothing new by any means.

As far as controversy goes, calculated or spontaneous events
have no relevence in regards to impact.  That's like saying a
premeditated crime has less impact than a a crime of passion.

Both suck equally.

Well, who else causes riots on such a grand scale?  And questionable song content is one thing, but OIAM was truly shocking.  Everyone talks about rock songs offending the extreme right, when no one takes them seriously anyway.  OIAM offended the right, left and middle to boot.


It is different, malice aforethought can be more cruel.  Anyway, what is says to me is that Axl is a loose cannon, unpredictable, Marilyn is not.  The things that Axl did were to the detriment of his own career, financial status, public image, everything.  Marilyn is a savvy performance artist, he wants to push the envelope, but not too much.  There is no difference between Axl and his public persona, whereas Marilyn is putting on a show.


True, hard to beat.  I might read Marilyn's book, I'm sure it's interesting.  

Well if Manson does get any royalties, I hope he enjoys whatever percent of the 6 bucks I gave Best Buy today for a replacement copy of TSI.

Does anyone have a CD that doesnt have One In A million on it or the Charles Manson song.  I know I heard a couple of years ago that they were going to stop putting those songs on it but I got a Lies CD a couple of years ago and it  still had One In A Million on it.  I doubt he would take that song off because that basically made the CD.  So does anyone know?

I think that Guns and Roses should do anything they want but doing a Charles Manson song was a bad move.i once read in my ex's Marilyn Manson book that Marilyn was pissed becasue Axl wanted to record a Charles Manson song.He claimed that Axl shouldnt do it becasue he didnt know fuck all about Cahrles Manson.but then a while later Marilyn himself came out wiv a Charles Manson song and wot the fuck does he know about Charles?He has sum fucking cheek! :rant:but i do think that Guns and Roses should just write thier own stuff and not record a retarded,stupid fuckers song...

Axl just covered that song to get more controversy n' fame, that's it!  :hihi:

wow, mm and axl know each other?

Manson wouldn't even exist if everybody who came before him, didn't do it all before. Lenny Bruce (who allowed everyone to say something on stage), Alice (Godfather of Shock Rock, everyone ows Alice a debt), Ozzy, Judas Preist...all of whom were mentioned.

All the rumors you hear about what Manson did on stage, killing puppies, the shit eating, etc etc etc, were all said about Alice, Ozzy, Bowie, Sam Kinison before him.

Pulled his dick out on stage? So did Jim Morrison. So have tons of metal guys.

Manson is the last line to do everything he's done or had said about him.

Yeah, and that makes him bad as an artist? What the fuck is the point of the last post?

And why was this bumped from page 94 in the first place?

From what the band says and seems to agree on, is that they heard the song from Axl's brother. The Marylin Manson thing I dont know, maybe he wanted to be a part of it to make him even more controversial.  The reason Axl wore the Charlie Dont Surf shirt on tour was because he had gotten a bad reputation with being arrested and starting riots and all that other bullshit. He was trying to show that the media was over-reacting and that he really wasnt a bad guy, someone like Charles Manson is a bad guy. Also, he found some humour in the qoute, there is a press release about it, if I find it I will post it.  And as for the song goes, like he said himself, he liked the lyrics and the melody because he could relate to it.  He wanted to show the world another part of Charles Manson that wasnt really talked about in the media.  Put another piece in the puzzle.  And for when he says "Thanks Chaz" at the end, if you actually read the liner notes of the cd, a guy named Carlos played the guitar on that song, so he is probably thanking him since Chaz is a nickname for Carlos. He's defiantely not thanking Manson.

I always thought you didn't have to pay royalties for a cover song if it was unlisted? Because, if its unlisted/uncredited, that means no one is buying the CD for that song (in theory), therefore they don't have to get paid. That's also why lyrics of cover songs are rarely printed in CD booklets.

I could very well be wrong though.

Mechanical animals made me love his work lol.

Whaaa..... that is way too obscure. The only people who would know that Axl saying "Jack" was in reference to Sinatra would be Axl himself. There is no way that conclusion can be made here. Besides if that got out that Axl Rose insulted Frank by eluding to him in a Manson track, Axl would be swimming with the fishes. Sinatra had mob ties.

I always took it as a "hit the road Jack" kind of Jack thing. Like listen Jack, I own this town here ya see...

I really think Look At Your Game Girl is a beautiful song. It's too bad they had to take the song from such a crazy asshole. I really like it though.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't think you're right. If that was the case, why would anyone list the song? If you could avoid paying royalities that easily everyone would do it.

He's not a bad artist. He's just overrated, overvalued and gets way more attention than he deserves. Anways, his 15 minutes of fame expired in 1998, so I guess it's not an issue anyway.

Just wondering, would C.Mason have recieved any royalties?
...isn't he still in prison/jail -?-

Just to clear things up. Here is a quote from Axl that hasnt been posted on here yet. Maybe this will put aside the talk about Axl supporting Charles Manson:

"Manson is a dark part of American culture and history. I wore the 'Charlie Don't Surf' t-shirt to make a statement because a lot of people enjoy playing me as the bad guy and the crazy. Sorry, I'm not that guy. I'm nothing like him. That's what I'm saying. There's a real difference in morals, values, and ethics between Manson and myself and that is 'Thou shall not kill', which I don't. I'm by no means a Manson expert or anything, but the things he's done are something I don't believe in. He's a sick individual. Look at Manson and then look at me. We are not the same. I think people think I'm crazy because I believe in telling the truth. I'll admit sometimes I don't do a perfect job of it, but my efforts are true."

That's not the prerogative of the metal or rocker dudes.

As early as in the first half of the 16th century Michelangelo dare drew that of Jesus on a chapel wall. The Ballet god (Blimy! Do I use this word for a human?) Nijinsky once did a wank on stage a century ago. Very old gimmick.
And the point of this post is Just me trying to show off my great knowledge! Heehaw! :confused:

Seriously I think he did this and that Because he liked the song and he was a believer in 'Art for art's sake' and the freedom of expression in the vein of the greats I name above.

Its a nice qoute but still wearing the different Manson shirts and covering the song starts to look more like an obsession then just a image statement. Manson also likes to say he tells the truth. Actually he says that in just about every interveiw.