Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Just imagine how good it must feel for Slash and Duff, and even Matt, to be sticking VR so far up Axl's  ass. They are probably going to be very successful, and Axl gave a shit less about them. Now they are, finally, about to make him feel and look like complete and utter SHIT.

Not that the comeback tour and still no CD doesn't make Axl look like shit already, especially with Buckethead leaving. All the pieces have fallen for Axl, and its so fucking sad! However, good for Slash, Duff and Matt to be out and enjoying their GnR fame by putting together a new band. Axl is going to be SOOO green with envy, but hey, he's had his chances, and of course still does. But doesn anyone really envision him getting anything together again? It took him X number of years just  to have a comeback tour fail. I think its going to kill Axl to have to get the energy to get this rolling again.

Probably, and sadly, the only way we see new Axl/GnR material is if Axl dies. I read someone say this here awhile ago, and although horrible to say, and I hope Axl lives to 99, its probably true.

By the way, someone asked me the origins of my name here. The W and Axl are obvious, the 23 is an ode to Jordan!!!

i think it's really fucking cool to see vr interviews and articles, and it feels really good just waiting for a new exciting album to be released. i don't think tho that vr is going to be so successful as you imagine. they're not going to be anything close to what gn'r used to be or even is today(with the gh and everything)! thats why i don't think axl care too much about the whole vr thing... when or if axl release his monster and start to tour again, vr will be long forgotten...

to be honest, i thinks it's stupid of either to talk shit about the other... but it goes both ways so....

is that what you call one show? They have done one fucking show... They have a mini tour of bars and small clubs planned ...Axl SOLD OUT MSG.. They arent sticking anything up any asses except maybe each others dicks...

of course they will....and Axl will too..

Id say Axl gave a shit about them...

how is that?? by selling out some bar in the midwest?? or by trying to keep thier new fucking singer from getting strung out every week and out of fucking jail??

how do you figure??

Thats Axl Roses band... not Brian Carroll's band..  All he has to do is pick 18 or so of his new songs and release an album and his pieces are all back in place... Thats a fact jack and you know it...

sure playing some AFD songs, some STP songs and some songs that will sound just like the snakepit disk shit....Good for them!!!!

of what?? playing some midwest bars or playing in St louis again? or envious of thier herion addict singer? That Slither song??

he always will have his chances... He is W AXL ROSE!!! he has UNLIMITED chances... CARTE BLANCHE... He is AXL ROSE and he will always be the lead singer for GUNS N ROSES.. an established ORIGINIZATION... and proven seller.. no matter who the players are....

does anyone really envision him going away???

his "failed" tour will out sell and out gross this mini tour shit that VR have put together...  They would be lucky to be as big as audioslave or maybe if they are lucky they can get some exposure on an Ozzfest or Lollopoloza tour..  AXL can play to 10,000 people in Europe, Asia, S. America....  I hope VR have a good time in the Midwestern bars..

it hasnt yet.. and to quote someone "It took alot less pressure to kill Jim Morrison"


your a jackass... then you would never see it...  you will prob see something by the end of the year... stop crying like a little bitch....

what the fuck are you talking??  ??? ???

thats just great.....

Axl will lways be more popular because he owns the name Guns n' Roses. even alone, he is able to become again the biggest Rockstar in the world, and even alone he catchs more attention from the media than all the ex-Guns n' Roses members. When Axl does something, there are always tones of articles in the press.

Hey, kockstar99...you must HATE Velvet Revolver from the bottom of your soul!!

He won't be popular just because he owns the name Guns N' Roses,he will be popular because his new band really IS Guns N' Roses

Another in the great tradition of worthless threads started by W 23 Axl...and even more worthless Kockstar99 posts.  With that quota met, Id say this can be moved to the Dead Horse section now.

However as a public service, Ill offer Kockstar a brief geography lesson...

5/13: St. Louis, MO
 5/14: Kansas City, KS
 5/15: Minneapolis, MN
 5/19: Chicago, IL
 5/20: Detroit, MI
5/21: Toronto, ONT
 5/26: New York, NY
 5/27: Washington, DC  
 5/28: Philadelphia, PA  
 5/29: Boston, MA  
 6/04: Seattle, WA  
 6/05: Portland, OR  
 6/07: San Francisco, CA
 6/08: Los Angeles, CA
 6/09: Los Angeles, CA
 6/11: Las Vegas, NV

Five dates are in the midwest, all are major cities.

Eleven dates arent in the midwest, all are major cities.  

Nearly all of the venues are theatres holding upward of 1,500 people, and nearly every show has not only sold out, but sold out in a matter of minutes.   That includes "midwestern" cities such as New York City, Toronto, and Washington D.C.  And theyre newest date is at the Las Vegas Hard Rock Hotel...sound familiar.  But theyre just playing bars, right?  :hihi:

In a bazilian forum, there?s a guy that libes in toronto and he said the place they will play in toronto is very small... I?m just saying what he said ok?

Duff N' Slash don't like it when people slag off Axl n' I'm POSITIVE Axl doesn't like his ex-gunners to be hurt either!

Just cos they have split don't mean they love each other deep down!

They have had a huge past together!!! {remember???}

Which forum?

The Kool Hause capacity is 2,000 - 2,400.  

Great!  ::)

I prefer your rumour posts.....

Axl can't be doing things so bad if he gets us lot logged in here day in day out - including you.

If u hate the band and just love vr there's plenty of forums about them you could try......

Didn't Duff just say that they don't care about selling a lot of records........they just want to play?

I don't think if VR aimed for stadiums they'd sell out.  Axl did sell out MSG and others. ;)

But......I actually prefer the smaller venues......maybe coz I am older......but I'd rather see an intimate concert than a big one with loads of people.

Also, imo, this just points to the differences between Axl and ex members.......Axl prefers big stadiums......ex members (Izzy in particular) like the 2000 seaters.

Whatever works and whatever brings back rock in roll at this point........I don't give a fuck where they play as long as they play : ok:

all the vr shows are in clubs..even in the major cities...

anyways dude why bring up vr vs gnr its gay......let the albums each release do the talking. vr will draw first lets see what cd brings when it gets released...as i have always been saying...my rolex and my blng bling are in for cd  ;)

Uh, no....there not. Who gives a fuck anyway.

They've got a single out.

A video in a few days.

A tour booked, and a hot icket for that matter.

A release date for a completed record.

And NO excuses.

I dont care if its 5 or 10 midwestern bars .. you know the points i was making... thier not playing at major sporting arenas... they are playing bars/clubs.. stop trying to split hairs...

no i dont hate them... I was just shooting down W 23 Axl's stupid ass thread trying to compare...

you can make an argument for or against either band...

Yeah this post does suck.  Yeah Michael Jordan is the best ever for Bulls/Wizards/Carolina anyone else he ever played for we all know that.  I've played ball my entire life for every school I've went to and I bet you SUCK at ball W 23 Axl.  Just because you spread so many dumb ass rumors on here to get people pumped up about GN'R.  Compulsive liors are usually terrible at everything they say they are good at, LOL!  Anyway it was NOT a failed tour Axl just didn't want to show, and if he did it was usually close to being sold out.  Velvet Revolver does rock and I support them but no one holds a candle to the new GN'R.

Dont kid yourself W 23 Axl, how do you think VR will feel when GNR sell 10 times more albums and  rules this fuckin' world again!!! The ex- GNR's should feel like dickheads now, they picked a junkie singer who has already stolen the lime light from the band with his rehab shit.

Once they start touring around, how the fuck do you think Weiland will stay clean dude. It's falling apart before it's began. :-\

No, I dont.  Please dont assume we share the same thought process. :confused:

Youre point appeared to be that they were playing low-rent bars in the Midwest, when theyre in fact playing large clubs/theatres (standard for many commercially successful acts), all in major cities, and one being the same venue Axl has played recently.  And theyre selling out each one (2,000 tickets at a time) in mere minutes.  All of this with only one year of existence, one show and two records under the belt...and without the luxury of an already famous name to sell their tickets for them.  Im sure if they really wanted to, they could at least half-sell arenas too (in the Midwest for that matter, since you seem to forget that GNR played a few dates there in 2002), but thats obviously not their intention.

Again, who gives a fuck a "major sporting arenas"?  

Didn't some band play "major sporting arenas" in 2002 resulting in one of the biggest failed tours in recent history?

That's not a swipe at anyone, it's simply a fact.  Imagine if a NEW band carrying a brand name that had massive name recognition would have gone the VR route?  Maybe created a buzz, got some good press, good reviews etc....

No shit.  Very fucking exciting.  Wahoo!!!

Can you imagine if Axl announced a smaller-venue tour?  How fast Kockstars opinion would change.  

And if/when VR go the arena route??  Hes going to have to go to the drawing board with his cop-outs and excuses, but Im sure theyll be no less inane then the ones he makes now.

I'm glad VR is playing smaller venues and i think it's a smart thing to do until they can gauge their audience.

But lets not make it sound like a big deal that they're selling out 1000- 2500 seat theatres.  These guys are living off the GNR and STP name to sell these seats and lets face it most of the fans at the VR shows will probably be the same GNR fans on all the boards we have hoping to hear brownstone and it's so easy.

In no way are the ticket sales due to a couple of mediocre songs that we've heard to date and this accomplishment of selling out theatres should be tempered until we find out if the album is better than the singles we've heard.

Use Your Guns
useyourguns.board.dk3.com

yes they are. they are all club venues. I dont care all im saying is that there clubs. Its not that hard to sell out.
Im glad they have all of that. Gnr will have all that but more when they go ahead with theirt plans as well.
There playing in the same venues that many average rock bands play in. Im not saying thats because their average as well. Its because they wanted to "keep it simple" for this tour and play in small venues. And what venue are they playing that gnr played in? If you are referring to their ny stop, vr is playing at the roseland ballroom not msg.
Yes and that same band had no single,video, or album release date in sight. Plus they basically came out of the woodwork and announced a tour after remaining silent for a decade. So lets factor that in the equation as well.
 


And theyre selling out each one (2,000 tickets at a time) in mere minutes.  All of this with only one year of existence, one show and two records under the belt...and without the luxury of an already famous name to sell their tickets for them.  Im sure if they really wanted to, they could at least half-sell arenas too (in the Midwest for that matter, since you seem to forget that GNR played a few dates there in 2002), but thats obviously not their intention.Lol bro there only playing at 2000 seat venues. Its not like they are filling the house. Plus they have a single out. And dont give me that bullshit band name stuff. The people who are buying the tickets are gnr fans and stp fans. If you think kids are buying these tix because a hot new band is out then your truly mistaking.

WHy praise vr for doing the club thing. WHo cares what they do. WHo cares what gnr do. HOwever they choose to tour is up to the band. Just ebcause one decides to fill areans and one decides to fill clubs doesnt make one right. When cd comes out with the proper promotion, single and video and if its good we will never have a gnr vs vr comparison. Gnr have much more potential than vr.

Im just stating the reality of the situation in order to enlighten posters such as Kockstar99 who dismiss VRs tour as "a few bars in the Midwest".  

Although it is a pretty big deal if you ask me, largely because of how fast theyre selling these tickets.  Its a positive sign, to say the least.  You figure if theyre selling 2,000 tickets in 3/5 minutes as its been reported, maybe arenas aint so crazy - and this is all without an album.  And Ive yet to see or hear any TV or radio ads promoting this like they did with GNR.  And all of this has been done in spite of only being a band for a year, not having an album, and Scotts legal problems.  


Not really.  Of course their pasts are selling tickets - theres simply nothing they can do about that.  However the band is Velvet Revolver - not Guns N' Roses, not Stone Temple Pilots.  Theyre hardly living off either name.


Some of them, yeah.  Most?  I doubt it.  Theyre rocks fans - fans of GNR and/or STP who know theyre going to see a great show.  Theyre going because its Slash, Duff, and Scott, not because theres the chance "Mr. Brownstone" might be played.  I even doubt that most of the people who purchased tickets have seen the interviews in which Slash mentions that theyll cover Guns songs.


Mediocre?  Thats your opinion, however theres plenty of people who think otherwise and both have done pretty well on radio so far, without a video.

Hard Rock Hotel, Las Vegas

Yes and that same band had no single,video, or album release date in sight. Plus they basically came out of the woodwork and announced a tour after remaining silent for a decade. So lets factor that in the equation as well.
I dont think Falcon wasnt looking for excuses..
 

Except one wasnt really "filling up" arenas.  

Bottom line: VR is taking the smart route.  Despite each member's checkered history, they are a new band, and they realize that they aren't going to start out at the top of the world.  So they play small venues and work their way up.  Axl has no concept of this.  He thought that since he was using the GNR name, he was going to dominate ticket sales as if it were 1992 all over again.  Granted, it may have worked in one sense, but only because many people thought they were getting the real GNR when they bought a ticket to Axl's shows.  No matter what the name is, Axl's band is a new one just like VR, and pretending to be a headlining attraction bit him hard in the ass on his 2002 tour.


One other show out of the entire tour sold out.  Boston and NYC are the only two shows Axl sold out.  And keep in mind half the people that attended those shows probably expected to see Slash.  Not everybody keeps tabs on what goes on with GNR like we at this site do.


Yeah, averaging 7,344 tickets on a tour where you're playing 18,000 seaters hardly constitutes "filling up" arenas.

you dont have to enlighten me dipshit.. ok ill change the post for you they are playing some bars in the midwest, east coast, west coast....happy now.. get on with it... is that the "reality of the situation" you wanted? happy? fine..

Same with Axl Roses band.. how fast did they sell out MSG with out an album?

but they are all over the fucking print media.. covers of Metal Edge, Guitar mags, blah blah..  not to mention the making of the Video special.. stop trying to make it look they are some underground phenom or something.. everyone knows who the fuck they are....

"The Project" has been around for longer than one year sorry.. its been hyped for awhile... with the "search for a singer" and all..

no they are living off royalites they made and still make from those bands... They sure are not living off that fucking "slither" song... yes they are living off both names.. allthough there is nothing they can do about it..

maybe some Rolling Stones and Sex Pistols covers as well?? of course it will be a good rock show.. how could it not be... but of course they will play GnR and STP songs.. any rock fan knows this...

Don't know, but with the exception of Boston, most of the other arenas were not even 1/2 full.


Uh, yeah, they are "living" (very technically speaking) off the money they made from those bands, the same way Axl is "living" off money he made from GNR.  What's your point?  If you're insinuating that VR is planning to musically live off GNR/STP for the rest of their careers, you're sadly mistaken.  

I have no opinion of smaller-venue or large stadiums.. the only thing i was using that as an example to blast the dipshit W 23 Axl's post saying that all that shit about Axl.. I was poining out what each band has done.. one has sold stadiums and one has not... more people=more money...  i never said an opinon on either so do us a favor and stop "assuming i have the same thought process as you do" ...

What excuses or cop-outs have i made??

even on the worst nites on the North American tour they still had more people.. lets not forget the Europe and Asian shows..


no im not ininuating that at all.. as much as all this looks like i dislike VR i hope they do well actually,  If posters like W 23 Axl are going to make needless Axl is done, Axl's new band is shit,  Axl's band hasnt done shit.. I can make the same fucking counter posts about VR...

You can make posts for or against either band.. They are differnet animals from the same species....

Hmm.  Better...and if they were playing "bars" you might even have a point.  No such luck yet, though.  :(


15 minutes, I believe.  That was a great achievememt for Axl, no argument here.  Im not exactly interested in creating a competition, only in rebuting foolishly biased assertions such as "VR has only sold out a few bars in the Midwest" and other similarly stupid comments.


Yes, promoting their album...not their tour.  


Haha, not to mention that it hasnt even aired yet.  Great argument there. : ok:


That wasnt my intention...but theyre selling a lot of tickets, very fast for a completely new brand name without any albums or videos.  A very positive achievement, thats all.


Youve been reaching this whole time, but now youre lapsing into blatant absurdity...

"The Projects" year-long career as a sporadic music news item and auditiong outfit hardly makes any difference to Velvet Revolver.


This is what happens when opinions are formed on complete bias and falsehoods...one loses track of what point they were trying to make.

Your original point, in its ridiculous contex, was that VR was selling tickets based on the names of its previous bands...at least thats what I hope it was, because this newfound take on it has absolutely no relevance to the discussion.


Maybe maybe not.  The point is, theyre going because theyre fans of the bands members and know theyll see a great show and that fact is prevalent over whether a fan thinks theyll play a GNR song or two.

with a smash like slither how could axl not be raving with jealousy wondering how they can write such great awesome stuff and everything he writes like the blues,maddy and cd are shit ::)

lord it sucks being axl :beer: ::)

I would love to see ANY of the old gunners (beside axl) carry a band on their shoulders. Im not talking about writing guitar parts or bass parts, but truly be the face of the band - the man responsible for lyrics, style, overall direction. But why imagine? We can just look at Adler's Appetite, Snakepit, etc.


No matter what Velvet Revolver does, they will always be considered the good guys. When they release Slither, a dissapointing song, they won't be criticized. If Axl ever released a song 10 times better than Slither,  people will still criticize him and view him as the loser, unfortunately.

simply not true.

minneapolis-10,000, about 80 percent capacity
albany,ny 10,000... way over half
toronto- 16,000 nearly a sell out
london ontario-9,000 out of about 12,000
boston- 12,700 way over half
new york, ny-sold out
philadelphia 1st show sold out

the poorest selling shows were a little over half full. tacoma being the worst and the only show that was less than half, about a handful were 55 to 60 percent full.. And it was listed in the top 10 highest grossing tours of that year, can't remember the source, but I believe it may have been pollstar. Not as bad as others have been making it out to be, I think the cancelled dates have made peoples perceptions of that tour alot worse than it actually was. I'm not really interested in this argument but that just wasn't true, I however still feel the tour could have been better and would probably consider it a failure had I not been to a show that completely rocked.
 

And the thread gets decidedly more stupid...

What are you talking about?  Slash, Duff, and Matt are about as responsible for the bands style and overall direction as can be.  The band is known as much, perhaps more, for Slash, Duff and Matt as it is for Weiland (who is the bands "face" by default since thats kind of the lead singers job...same goes for lyrics).  Also take into account that this band is just that - a band, and far from your proposed dictatorship.  I guess I could further entertain this silliness by saying that I would love to see Axl completely write and play all of the music on his own, meaning bass and guitar solos, etc.  I could also argue that Id love to see Axl carry a band on his shoulders as well.  He just might be the face of his band, but what good is it when that band does next to nothing?  Maybe then you would see what a dumb argument this is.  



You ever consider that theyre not criticized for "Slither" because not everybody shares the same opinion of as you?  Then again, most dont harbor the same biases that you do.  Those who do have criticized the song, as have many real VR fans, so you got yourself another argument that doesnt hold weight.

I meant, carry the band individually on their shoulders...I hate to turn this into a Slash vs Axl thread but do you actually think any of those guys can single-handedly carry a band like Rose is attempting now. The truth is, they can't....am I being biased? Not at all...just looking at their solo efforts.


Do you think that writing a bass line or a drum fill can even be compared to writing the lyrics of a song? I'm talking decent lyrics here, none of this Slither- keep-me-under-finger-watchamacallit. By they way, Rose is basically singlehandedly carrying a huge name on his shoulders, dealing with pressure by himself which is much greater than what any of the VR guys get put on them.


Oh please, you mean to tell me Slither is a strong single? If you think so, fair enough...this does not change the fact that the media will be alot less harsh on VR than on Axl, regardless of the quality of his songs.

An neither, as should be obvious to anyone with even half a brain, can Axl.

But whats the point of even discussing the prospect?  Its completely pointless.  And Axl is hardly the musical superhero you seem to think he is...Not only has he had tons of assisstance in making his record and carrying on as "Guns N' Roses," but hes had relatively little success doing so.  His biggest success would probably be the shows hes played, and all have been done with material written by the old band.  


 :confused:

Yes?

But I maintain that its stupid to make such comparisons because each member of a band has an important role in creating music, and thats what they do.  So nonsense such as "Can Slash write great lyrics?," "Well, can Axl create a classic guitar solo?" are worthless.  And I hope that everybody has enough sense to know that I wasnt really making such an argument, just using it as an example to show how wortless the comparison is.


So what?  At this point, ask yourself, "What is my point?"


 :confused:

Yes?  And its enthusiastic response from print and radio hints that I might not be alone.


Yes, they will be less harsh on VR, but thats mainly because theres generally less to be harsh about.  Axl does have the burden of criticism, but you cant say its completely undeserved.  As for "the quality of songs" angle...thats unfair, since the opportunity hasnt even been presented.  

He isn't singlehandedly carrying shit. He's turned into a joke, a laughingstock.

It's not just stupid, it's stoopid.  Stoopid is a whole another level of stupidity.  :hihi:


That's right.  Many VR fans have expressed their opinions about the songs we've heard, but it doesnt make them any less of a VR fan just because they offer some criticism.  They wont be irrationally branded as haters for it.

But as a nuGNR fan, what to do now except respond to W 23 Axl's threads?  After all, there's not much going on unless you count Dizzy Reed's solo dates, and Robin's new look.  

You can't dismiss his effort as a failure until something is released. When I have the CD in my hands and I feel it is a dissapointment, I will be honest about it and we will have this discussion again. As far as Axl being the laughingstock:  the only reason Slash's Snakepit, Adler's Appetite, etc were not laughing stock is because hardly anyone cared.

We can go on for hours but it all comes down to this: I have alot more confidence in Axl Rose than in all of the previous members combined (excpet maybe Izzy) when it comes to releasing material.  Yes it might take over ten years to create but if I had the option of waiting 5 more to hear Chinese Democracy or settle for anything VR makes right now, I wouldn't have a hard time deciding.  This said, I see no reason why Axl Rose could possibly be jealous of VR.

Maybe we will all be waiting another 5 years for CD - who knows.  

But I dont think of VR as settling for something less or sub-par.  Perhaps you do, and you're entitled to your own opinion.


Agreed.  I dont think he is jealous of VR either.  This is just the product of W 23 Axl's deranged mind.  Hence, the stoopidity of this thread.

So I suppose we should just ignore the failure of the 2002 tour, the widely criticized VMA performance, the indifference to "Oh My God," etc.?  Hell, the fact that were halfway into 2004 and still have nothing is a failure in its own right.    


No, its because Slash hasnt been involved in anywhere near the level of ludicrous bullshit that Axl has.  And he hasnt done it using the Guns N' Roses name.


A simple case of blind faith...good for you.   : ok:

Ya, that's exactly what Im talking about. I am sure alot of people would care if Snakepit cancelled a tour, or Adler's CD was delayed, or if Slash hired a crappy singer (Dover) that sounds like hes singing while hanging from a noose. But somehow, when Axl hires a talented guitarist that wears a bucket on his head, people just cant resist but take a stab.


This thread is all over the place, its even getting into the question of using the GnR name.  I can't blame people for feeling uneasy about the use of the GnR name,  but there are too many pros and cons that would take up another 5 pages.  

Yeah but if you get a full stadium it rocks because of the attitude of the fans, they are just so into it!
They go mad!
I understand ya point too though because it can get dangerous at big sell-outs n' your more likely to get spotted by DUFF if ya in the small areas!  :beer:

Hey COCKstar...

First of all, you seem to think I am bashing Axl. I fuckin love Axl AND the new band AND the new fucking songs! I was in CT and at MSG in 2002 and was about to drive to Philly when we all thought otherwise, for whatever reason (good thing). I've been the biggest gnr fan since the 80s. The only other cds I can ever even listen to is Zeppelin and Aerosmith, cuz nothing else can even comapre to GnR....ANY of the albums!!! Again.....COCKSTAR...you seem to think I am bashing Axl........ummm, NO. I still rather hear the new GnR over VR anyday. But atleast VR will be fan friendly and besides that, actually tour and release something (what a fucking idea)!

I was simply stating the obvious. We're all human... of course Slash, Duff and Matt feel good about getting together. In a way, they are showing the world it wasn't them who was crazy, it was Axl. (The Buckethead thing doesn't help this either)

Actually, the best was when Duff said it took them 2.5 weeks to record or write it or something like that. An obvious left jab to Axl's face.

Another point - It is true - no matter what Slash and VR do, nothing will compare to CD (IF IF IF IF IF it EVR comes out) There is just something about Axl that still infatuates me and I think millions of others. Problem is, he knows that, and takes his sweet little time - each day actually adds to his legend. There's been almost nothing but crazy shit going on, but there is still this optimism that SOMEDAY, SOMEWAY, the new album will come out.

Last point - I went back and read some old interviews and articles found on this site. If you read either the 89 or 92 (i forgot which one) Rolling Stone interview, Axl says he's doing regression therapy and he's getting as far back as being inside his mother's womb, and hearing what people were saying about her being pregnant, and how his father didn't want him, and the family didn't want him.

ok -- - - - -- I can understand the massive insecure feelings one would get from feeling that your own family doesn't want you even alive. Thats heavy and fucked up and must be amazingly hard to even begin to deal with.

however.........

anyone who thinks they can go back in time, sorta say, and actually LISTEN to what was going on while you were'nt even born yet (like that would change much), is absolutley wacked out. I kinda feel bad for him, we all go through crazy shit. That why this world is FUCKED up. But anyway, the point being, Axl is pretty fucked up to actually BELIEVE he's going back and hearing this shit, and that was 1992. Its fuckin 2004, he probably thinks he's Magic Johnson or Moses by now.

- glad to see my posts start off good discussion!

He is a musical superhero. Hes just not a musical superhero to the general public like he was.
What assistance are you talking about? Aside from right after the original broke up, this band has been set since 98/99. From 95-97/98ish guitar players were brought in to work with slash and then when slahs left just jammed. The producers brought in are for particular songs and particular albums. Not just cd. This current band has been working on material since 99.

No shit the band hasnt had much success yet. But again has any of their efforts really meant to do well? Of course they thought and wanted the tour to do well, but one again they had no promotion whatsoever. The mtv performance didnt go well because Axl was nervous.
And you keep bringing up omg. It was never backed by proper single promotion nor did any other singles or albums follow it. Plus its a kickass song so i could care less....

I was referring to the 2002 tour.

No excuse dude, cold hard facts.
Just because you want to play in areans doesnt mean you think or want to be on top of the world. If your material cant fill up areneas then to me you are an average band. If you think VR will build fans by touring small clubs your wrong. The peopel that are buying these tix are stp fans and gnr fans. The only way vr and gnr for that matter will get new fans and begin to climb the top is if their material is good. Its a ssimple as that. No1 cares about rock n roll attitudes and philosophies. Thats why VR are sometimes annoying to me. Theykeep preaching this "badass, lets keep it simple, go back to our routes etc" attitude. GUys who the fuck cares. Let the music do the talking. I could care less about all that stuff. It has to be natural. let the material speak.

Bingo!. Finally dizzy, you speak the truth. Now being that the outside public has no clue on whats going on with gnr, how do you expect them to sellout arenas without a single, video, album and promos?

Was it the smart for gnr to go on a out of the blue tour and play in all these small and big citites without any new material? absoultely not. wasnt smart at all. they should have just done a quick major cty tour. just to get the gnr name back out there.

We all know  the 2002 tour was a failure in terms of sales etc. We all know gnr have fucked up in the pr department. BUt again, they havnt exacetly set themselves up for success yet either. And its not making excuses. They have yet to release a single, a video,more singles,an album and a tour to support that album. Till they do that then to me it doesnt matter.

If the material is good people who could give 2 shits about gnr either way will embrace the band. It all depends on the material.

Same with vr. no1 cares about the philosophies and attitudes. people wnat good music. that other stuff just comes naturally.

Vr will go on to do clubs etc and probably headline festivals. Unless tehre material is a lot better than slither i dont see them headlingin there own tour. There potential for new fans is limited.

And how many other shows did you not mention?  The official press report stated that Axl sold an average of 7,344 tickets in venues that seated 16-18,000.  So my statement was not inaccurate.

And I read that the Dallas show only sold around 6,000 tickets in advance, which is way less than half.


Incorrect.  Axl was #75 on that list.  He didn't even come close to being one of the top ten grossing tours.

Gnr will be doing the same exact things vr are doing now! they will do all of this when they are ready to go ahead with the album.

Who cares. good for them. Axl kept the name so he has a lot more respnsibility. plus this is a highly anticipated album. plus tehy have been working on 3 albums. plus when you think about it. they have basically completed 3 "potential great" albums in only 5 yrs. Its a long time but not an absurd amount.

I don't give a shit how great the material is, you're not going to fill arenas on your first tour.  That's what I meant.

Evanescence is a good example of this.  Their major label debut has gone multi-platinum, but they have gradually played in bigger places.  They have toured clubs and made their way up to 5-6,000 seaters.  Their one hit album was not going to fill arenas yet.

That's what I meant when I said VR was taking the smart route by starting small places, and having to work their way up (meaning via their material).

I don't think their exactly sticking it to axl, none of them(slash, duff, matt) wanted that band to fall apart and i think they're just happy for the first time in a while with VR

sure you will. If your album is great old fans and new fans will come.

Because they suck. Their album has sold millions because of that hit single. Not because they are a band everyone has fallen in love with. Lerts get real. Evanescence doesnt come close to vr or gnr.

My point is, if gnrs material is great they will easily fill arenas. They already have the name, and by that time they will have the proper promotion and new material. You dont build a fan base by touring. That was the old days. Times have changed. People will come if your material is good.

Screw you, pal. Velvet Revolver isn't going to be anything big, they'll be about Audioslave-level, which isn't bad, but definitely not "ruling the world" level, like GNR will be again...

American football fans should get this analogy...
VR is to GNR as Arena Football is to NFL.

Gimme a break!  I've said it before, I'll say it again, Blues and Maddy are brilliant, Slither is so-so.  I do wish VR the best.

One could draw the same analogy as to Robin, Tommy and Brain
to.....

Your opinion of them isn't the point.  I just used them as an example.  And I've seen them live, and I can tell you their fanbase extends way beyond the success of one hit single.


People will not come just by listening to one CD.  NOBODY will immediately fill arenas with one good album.  NOBODY.


Christ, another blind "Axl will rule the world" fanboy.   ::)

Sure they will. So your telling me that gnr will not fill arenas when they go back on tour to support their album?

If the material on cd is great then itt will easily fill areneas. They filled half the arenas last tour soley on the gnr name. That was without any promo,singles video and album.

Great material will attract the kiddies and bring back other rock fans. areneas will be filled my friend.

They filled 3 at most.


 :confused:

Out of curiosity, what do you consider promotion?

what i meant was that on average they filled half of each arena soley on the gnr name.

this is wha i condiser promotion:
basically whjat vr is doing now....but a lil more

so full promotion means....
a press release
magaizine interviews
1st single/video
album
follow up singles and videos
tour supporting the album

thats full promotion
when that happens then thats how i will judge gnr in terms of public reception and fan base.

when gnr eventually decide to put out the album and go through the normal procedures of releasing an album etc then many things will change around here. i guarentee it. if the material is great many of the things peopel hate baout axl and gnr will long be forgotten.

What VR is doing now is promoting an album...not a tour.  All of that promotion, essentially none of it is for this tour.  And theyre selling 2,000 seats in minutes.  

Youve gone from "promotion" to "full promotion"...give it up.  The 2002 was promoted, and it was promoted as well as any other tour I can think of.  It was promoted way more than VRs.

First Axl announced it on the highly rated VMAs. there was tons of news coverage regarding it, there was radio/TV commercials, MTV did an interview with Buckethead promoting it, which ran both on the channel and the website, there was newspaper/magazine reviews, Axl even did radio interviews for it, as did Dizzy and Tommy for MTV.  And then theres general word of mouth...

There was plenty of promotion, so lets please put that excuse to rest.  

Hang on a minute, when you're out everywhere promoting an album from your new band, that's gonna affect ticket sales whichever way you look at it. To suggest it only promotes the album and doesn't affect ticket sales is wrong.

As for the 2002 tour, that was promoted plenty.

@#$%Muther

Booker, you don't think a single on radio, an announced release date for an album and interviews in magazines helppromote a tour?

A tour is only promoted by posters and radio ads?  :nervous:




/jarmo

Of course it affects sales, but the point is the tour isnt being promoted in those articles, or being promoted much at all - unlike GNRs.  The other poster was acting as if all the articles had tour dates in them, when the reality is that the articles that did discuss touring hardly had specifics.  The tour has only been announced now for what, two and a half weeks?  The fact that theyre touring on the heels of an album and such makes sense, while GNRs, well...didnt.

No, they dont.  You seem to be mixing up two distinctly different concepts: motivation to go to a concert, and actual awareness and familiarity with a tour.  Hearing a song that I like on the radio, seeing a release date for an album or reading an interview might make me want to go to a show, but I wont actually go until I see some kind of promotion on the specifics of the tour itself.  And dont mistake me, Im not acting as if VR has gotten no promotion, because obviously a lot of people are aware of the tour.  But theres no "Come see Velvet Revolver live!" ads on TV or radio, at least I havent heard/seen any. Ive only seen their tour promoted through their websites and news outlets online...but thats really all that is need, which is why its even more laughable when people use the "no promotion" cop-out for the 2002 tour.  Their confusing a bad idea (touring arenas after 9 years of silence for no reason other than to tour) for no promotion - two entirely different concepts.  

But bringing up the album and what not is only speculating on why people are going, and no different than somebody bringing the Guns N' Roses name, and their history and catalogue, which is why people go to their shows.  Its defintely a factor in both cases, and I never meant to state otherwise, only to show correct the implication that this tour VR is on was actually being promoted in all of these articles when it wasnt.

I think you just said it right there.  Hearing a new song the radio is gonna trigger interested, especially if the song is good.

The 2002 tour aside, if there's new music out there, which gets fan and "the kids" excited, then any tour the band would embark on is going to do a lot better.

the worst set of replies Ive ever read, mind you, the one you replied to were just a drop of piss better  : ok:

Velvet Revolver vs Axl's new GNR
Round One - winner... VR!
not so sure about rest of the fight though!  :rofl:

I am?

If you're not aware of the show, how can you be motivated to go?

I just think they go hand in hand. A single makes people aware of the band. Maybe even to the point where they go "hey, this sounds good. I hope they tour soon". Then they check out the website and see tour dates or maybe even hear a DJ mention it. All thanks to the single.

Then at the show maybe they like more songs and go out to buy the album.

You can sell tickets without radioplay, but I think it gets easier to sell tickets when you have a "hit".


In GN'R's case, people saw the ads and went because they liked the old stuff. There was no hype about a new super group, a video premiere or a new single.



You need to see an ad to go to a show?

Reading about a show on the website isn't enough?  ???


/jarmo

Youve got to be kidding. First off when you asked me what I consider "proper promotion" is, I said it in regards to an album coming out. All of that album/singles promotion creates fans and as a result when a tour is announced people are more aware of it. hence ticket sales.

Why dont you give it up and realize that although they advertising, the 2002 tour it didnt have the proper promotion. Meaning they had no new material to attract new fans.

Why would a music fan who does not know anything about gnr go and see them if they dont have a single/video and album out? A single/video/album magazines etc create a fan base. If the fans dig the stuf they go to see the band on tour. its as simple as that.

Vr tour is being more promoted because it has a single, a video and an album coming out. They have done interviews introducing themselves to the general public. It goes hand in hand. And almost every article states that they will be going on tour to support the new material.

Why do you try to reach for stuff that just isnt there?

Just because gnrs tour had a dam commercial on tv doesnt mean it was properly promoted. It was advertised. Big deal. Im not making excuses for poor ticket sales. But theres a reason for the poor ticket sales:
no single, no video,no album no magazine stuff.
plus gnr came out of the woodwork and announced a tour.

The way vr is doing things now is how you promote an album and tour and band. Every band does it why is it different for gnr now?

Once again. Im not saying it wasnt promoted. But it wasnt promoted to the extent that is proper. How the hell are they going to get peopel interested in seeing them play if there is no material to hear?

They didnt have tour dates in them because tour dates werent confirmed. Every article I have read on vr and their release talks about them going on tour. Just because they dont have the list of dates printed in th article doesnt mean they arent promoting the tour. Of course they are. If some1 is interested they go look it up its not that hard.

ANd i totally agree..gnrs tour didnt make sense. thats why it failed. You answered your own dam question. They went on tour to get out of the studio and re introduce the gnr name and new band. If they were gonna tour they should have kept it to a small big city tour. real quick. instead they embarked on a long pointless tour with no new material and no promotion.

so yes, i agree it didnt make sense. and thats hwy it failed. and u answered your own thing again when you say vr has an album so now they are going on tour.

bro your lame. holy shit. If I hear a song on the radio from a band and I like it, then i check out there album and i liek it. what does that make me do? it makes me go and see if they are touring and when.

I  wont just do nothing after I hear the album and let the tour dates come to me. plus its kind of a practice that bands go on tour when an album comes out. stop fukin stretching for things dude.
Its not a cop out its a fact. You get more ticket sales when you have new material out. no1 is going to see a band if they dont have a single video and album out. especially a new band.

just because a commercial aired on a few channels doesnt mean it was heavily promoted. that doesnt mean peopel wanna go see gnr because a fukin commercial was aired. it was an ad. that was the only type of promotion the band had to offer to music fans. an announcement that they were on tour thats it. the consumer says, ok what are you supporting. check to see if there is any new material out from the band. they dont have it hence no new fans are going to see gnr. its not that hard dude.

if it makes you happy to think that no1 cares about gnr because of last tour and the poor sales. then you an idiot. ill bet you anything that when they have the proper promotion_single,video,album} that there tour sales will greatly improve. and so will there fan base.

Why would a fan who knows nothing baout gnr go to the last tour?why would a  15 yr old kid say to his friends, yo lets go see gnr because i heard tehy still dont have an album out yet. What would a person who knows nothing about gnr relate to and go to a tour for?

only teh peopel who have follwoed gnr and miss the old material went to the last tour thats fukin it. ANd maybe some peopel who loved the mtv performance. thats it.

now in vrs case...a kid might say to his freind i really dig that song slither and the video. when the albumn comes out and its good lets go check them out on tour.
thats  how it goes. naturally gnr fans and stp fans are gonna go but in terms of peopel who vr/gnr are fresh and knw too the promotion aspect is what its all about...

thats the problem. you all think gnr is only it in for the old gnr fans. your wrong. its a whole new genreation to market to. The new band will market towards the peopel who never liked the old, and the kids. and whatever old fans want to liek them come along, fine. the gnr name is very helpful to this new band but in order for them to have new success they have to appeal to other audiences as well. not just the old gnr fan. and by getting peopels attention you have to do proper promotion and marketing:
a single, video
album
tour
additional single
interviews
tv etc
that is hwo a band attracts new fans. you can deny that all you want but its not only facts but common sense.

all vr has over gnr is good publicity. they are good in the pr department. they say the right things and are organized. so they can have all those brownie points....

all i care about is the music. and so far vr have not delivered on that front., they have given us average material. its boring. nothing exciting. dont get me wrong it rocks but then its just old.

the songs gnr have given us are still exciting and awesome. i listen to it everyday foir years now. that doesnt mean the rest of the material will be better. they still have to step up to the plate and deliver a masterpiece album. but i have no doubt they will.



btw jarmos last post basically sums up my post...good stuff jarmo.

Jesus christ people u've been bitching at each other for like 2 pages now i think, ::) ease up guys we'll c what happens when VR releases their album

I didnt say ads, I said promotion.  A website is promotion.  A single in some cases will entice people to find out about a tour, sure, but that wasnt my point.  The point was that the actual VR tour is not recieving anywhere near the level of promo that the GNR one got.  That is all.


Have you forgotten about a nearly 10-minute closing performance on one of the years biggest award broadcasts (in which Axl himself announced a tour)?  And the new GNR had their fair share of hype, too.  

So VR is selling tickets with the hep of a video, huh?  :no:




Well, the Guns N' Roses name is a good start.  And so is playing all of GNRs old material.  Thats like asking "How the hell are they going to get people interested in paying money for no new material?" and watching Greatest Hits debut at #3.  But that is not a promotion issue, thats just poor planning.  The tour shouldnt have happened, at least not in arenas, but again - thats not a promotion matter so you can stop blaming it on "no promotion".  Promotion is raising awareness for something, in this case a tour.  You can say people dont want to go, but dont say they didnt know about it.  Two different concepts.  

Yeah, I'm sure people remembered that and were just waiting for the tour to be announced.  :P
 


I said "video premiere". In case you've missed it, they've been talking about the video for over a month..... It's been mentioned quite a few times on various news sites.

The tour must've been quite wellknown since scalpers bought so many of the tickets and are now selling them on Ebay.  :-\



/jarmo

Like i said, the gnr name will definaltly help. It will attract the old fans again. But the new band still has to have their own material to have success.

I agree and disagree with your second point. They could have done a quick major city only arena tour. That would have been better and more proficient. For the purposes of just getting out of the studio and no releasing any new material they didnt need to embark on a reg. tour.

And once agian. People didnt go because new gnr had nothing new to offfer. Maybe that will help you understand. Yea, most peopel new about it because of ads that ran on various channels. All the ads said was gnr back on tour. Now, in case you havnt understood it in my last post...ill try to help you again, because it seems liek your slow...A band gains new fans or increases their fan base when they release new material. Particulary a new band, as is gnr. So in order for them to fill areneas they need new material and new fans. The way bands do that i sby: releasing a single and video, releasing the album, then tour and do other various promo things such as interviews etc. Thats how a band raises awareness of their tour and band.

The kid in idaho who doesnt know about gnr or isnt into the old stuff wont go to a gnr concert because they didnt offer anything to him. Now if the band release what i said above and he liked it perhaps he would buy a ticket. Thats how it works booker. what is so hard to understand i have no clue.

So what?  As of yet, no video has been played.  These tickets have been sold a good week-and-a-half/two weeks before any video premiere.  I doubt talk of a video is making much of an impact, other than getting people to actually tune in to the premiere.  Once the video is played, then an impact will be made.


I agree...

Ill say it again - Im not implying that the tour is being underpromoted.  Its being promoted just fine through the official website and news outlets.  You wont see any excuses coming from over here about lack of promotion, especially with the album.  But Im making it clear that the GNR tour was promoted better, and that any excuses pertaining to "no promotion" are bullshit.

One thing I missed from a previous post...


What VR has in "newness" (new single, album), Axls GNR more than makes up for in "oldness".  Hes touring with a proven brand name with all of the hits and classics to go with it.  Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, The Rolling Stones...all these guys sell out stadiums.  Do you see their new single?  And even if you want to bring up a 3 year-old single off of The Rising or whatever, do you think that Bruce is selling out stadiums off of that?  So a new single certainly isnt need to sell tickets, although I agree that GNR could use one.

Lets not carried away with the underdog complex, the band is still called "Guns N' Roses," "new" or not.


Really?  Then perhaps you can tell me about the Stones new video?  Or Bon Jovis?


Well at least you seem to concede that its not about promotion, since nothing youve said has anything to do with it.  

When it comes to the all-important clueless Idaho teenager demographic, then I guess your assessment is right-on...but thats not what Ive been talking about.

First off Gnrs future endevors will not focus on what the old band did. They are a new band. They are using the name because of Axl thinks gnr hasnt eneded yet. It has nothing to do with getting by on old material.

The bands you brought up arent new bands. Gnr is a new band. The public isnt aware or doesnt know much about the lineup changes. GNr have been mia for 10 yrs. Plus they are a new band. Let me see bon jovi leave the scene for 10 yrs and only come back with the singer and a new lineup. And his goal is not to bring back the past but to promote a new chapter of that band. liek axl is doing. Let me see how well the bon jovi name sells then.

This isnt about previous catalogues. Its about the new lineup and band. As a result they have to rebuild their fan base. Theres a big difference.

indeed it is. But its still a new band that will market towards new fans. all kinds of fans. as a result it has to start over like a new band. the only difference is they have the luxury of keeping the brand name. They still have to prove their worth with their own material. And thats what im talking about.

Booker, last tour didnt do well because theri was nothing new to promote. Its as simple as that. Stop tyring to make it something else when its really not. When gnr release a single,album and then tour and the album sales or ticket sales are shit, then what your trying to imply would be right...no1 cares, gnrs sux,yippy ki yay.....whatver...but till then gnr have not failed nor have they had any success.....the material they release and the publics reaction to that will determine whos the winner and whos the loser.

You say "when", I say "If".  Axl may be the possible exception, since he using the GNR name.  The GNR name will always be attractive.  If Axl were to go it alone, I'd say no.

Thats fine.If you dont think gnr will ever release new material or tour. Thats your opinion. But thats not what we are discussing here....

well dizzy, have you been paying attetion to this thread? you and booker are telling how gnr couldnt even fill an arena yet you just said "gee golly being axl is using the gnr name he will have no problem"...um if the gnr name was so attractive they would have sold out last tour.
They didnt because its a new lineup and that lineup didnt offer anything new. as a result this band has to prove itself to the haters, the skeptical, and everyone else. If when they do that is when they will fill areneas. The gnr name will no doubt help but it def. wont be the sole reason why new gnr sells out arenas in the future.

but when they do i know you will all say its because of the gnr name.

It doesnt matter if axl used a different name or not. People are still going to hold him responsible for breaking up gnr. so the guy cant win. He has chosen to use the name. he has accepted the responsibilities. So lets see if they step up to the plate.

It all comes down to the material this band puts out. You all bring up the gayest pussiest shit. whuch is fibe because for now thats all there is to talk about and to soem degree i valid. gnr have fucked up in the pr department. But once againg great music changes a lot of things. Many think it wont be great many do. when its released we will see.....

No doubt VR is going about the tour the intelligent way and I hope they have tremendous success.

Your argument about promotion Booker is just dead wrong.  VR is now on their 3rd single being played on radio, how the hell can you compare that to GNR.  You list the VMA's as being promotion and yes it was promotion ....... Bad promotion.  If axl would have come out and blown people away i would have said you were right, but if anything it probably turned off millions of old GNR fans who thought axl was washed up and playing with a bunch of nobodys.

With 3 singles out, whether you like them or not, it's much better promotion than what GNR ever got so it's unfair to say their out promoting nothing but the album, they're promoting everything VR.  GNR had the name but because of the VMA's everyone knew it wasn't the "old GNR" which basically cancelled any advantage of using the name for promotion.

Ps - i've never heard vr referred to without hearing that the group consists of 3 ex gunners and scott weiland former lead singer of STP.  I've also heard the term "supergroup" thrown about cheaply as well.  So to say VR is not getting a boost from the former groups is not accurate.

its quite simple...
Vr are in the process of the proper band promotional procedure that any band does when releasing an album.

GNR have yet to do that because they have yet to release an album.

To make it a bigger issue than it really is, is mind boggling, actually commical.

"Slither" and "Set Me Free"..

3 singles?

Enlighten me.

they werent supposed to be good.. That guy made a fuckin stupid thread with stupid bashes on Axl Roses new band... I was just poroving that I can make just as stupid threads and arguments against VR.... like is said later

You can make an argument for and against both bands.. there is no perfect way to do this..

They are two different animals from the same species...

 :confused:

Speaking of "dead wrong"...


Well ignoring the fact that GNR has an entire catalogue of classics and hits that they toured with...The 2002 tour, which is what Ive been referring to the entire time, was promoted in numerous ways, almost all of which Ive already covered and what do again.  TV ads, radio ads and interviews, MTV features...all examples of that tour being promoted.  VRs tour is being promoted on a much smaller scale (it is a much smaller tour).  The articles, interviews, etc., thats all for an album, not a tour.  Of course all of the other promotion for Contraband indirectly boosts ticket sales, but its not actual tour promotion, and thats the point.


Point proven - thank you.  Anything said afterward about the performance is irrelevant...promotion is promotion.  Axl announced the tour right after the performance, which was surely seen by millions across the nation.  The quality of the performance is completely subjective, just like "Slither" since you brought that up.


Youre right - thats indirect promotion, and not what Im talking about.  


No, the name still sparks interest, regardless of the lineup.  Having that name, especially in a touring situation, will always be an advantadge.  That name alone basically sells tickets.


 :confused:

Youre right...which is why you cant find a quote from me indicating otherwise.  In fact, Im positive that VR is selling most of their tickets simply because of who they are.

No1 is disputing that it wasnt promtoed. It was advertised. WHat the hell were gnr promoting that would bring peopel to come and see them?
Booker, this isnt rocket science. A band promotes itself and its tour by releasing singles,videos,an album and various interviews etc. Whether they mention exact tour dates in any of those forms of promotion are irrelevant. Peopel who like the single,video,album will then say hey I read they were going on tour lets check them out" thats how you get fannies in the seats.

Gnrs last tour peopel said: Wow, gnr back on tour again, i wonder what there promoting. They do a check. No single,video or album. Other than the old gnr fan what would drive a kid or any music fan who isnt aware of the gnr name to their concert?
Yes,it is actual tour promotion. We are discussing why gnr only sold half the areana on average. The reason is because they didnt the regular promotion procedure when a band goes out on the road. There were ads run saying they were on tour. NO shit. That not promotion. It just raises awareness. Now what did gnr offer to the public that would get them to come out other than the gnr name? Aboslutely nothing.

When gnr does what vr is doing now that is when you can gauge how popular the band is. Its up to the material they release that will either bring fans or keep away fans.

I totally agree that the gnr name is definately a big help when they release the new material. Like i said earlier they have the name brand but they still have to prove it with their quality.

And a perfect example of this is the 2002 tour.
The people that went basically went because of the gnr name.
The other half stayed home because their was no material for them to go to the concert.

So your whole thing about "oh its easier for them to sell out because they have the gnr name" is bullshit. New bands are successful based on the material they release. That material keeps old fans, and attracts new fans. Being that the band was mia for 10 yrs and had no new material to release or promote they didnt atrract any new fans and didnt attract many of the old. Thats what happens when a tour is promted properly. Its very simple booker. To make this out to be a big issue is stretching for soemthing that isnt there.

Dont worry 1 day you will have the oppurtunity to tell me if this band is a failure. I will aslo have the same chance to tell you the opposite. Till then we have to wait on the material they release. So till that happens i guess you can continue to cream yourself over their fucked up pr moves.

How about the cover of Pink Floyds "Money" which was used as a part of the soundtrack for i beleive "The Italian Job" not sure if i have the right movie.  

Maybe I'm wrong calling it a single but it's still a way for this band to release music and gain notice.

Thus one more form of promotion they've used, smartly i might add, but still much more than a group who stayed pretty much in hiding for 10 years.

Wow...youre reaching really heard there.

"Money" wasnt even released, and was only featured in the end credits of the movie for a minute or so.  The full version of the song has only been heard by die-hards.  Thats not to mention that this was all over a year ago.

Money was still put out for promtional purposes and further proves that VR is going heavy on promotion.  

I'm not quite sure what you're disagreeing with but i like the way VR is handling their buisness and can't wait to hear contraband.  I disagree with you that they are doing this under the radar and that this is all just about the current make up of this band.  I also take offense (and this is ironic cus i'm usually bashing axlites) that you're comparing the promotion of the 2002 tour with the upcoming VR tour and basically turning this into a slash vs axl thing once again.

ps- off subject, booker, what do you think the response would have been had axl walked out with the old gnr and announced an upcoming tour ?

It was never put out.  It was included briefly in a movies credits...to bring that into a discussion of VRs tour promotion...I dont see the point.    


Please point me to where I said they were doing it under the radar.  

VRs tour has been promoted appropriately.  The only two points Ive made pertaining to it are 1) It hasnt been promoted as much GNRs tour, which I think is obvious and 2) All of the articles on the band are not actual tour promotion, which I also think is obvious.  Do they indirectly influence sales?  Yes, but thats not what Im talking about.  Theres a million things that could influence GNRs ticket sales too.  Im talking strictly promotion for the VR tour, promo that announces the tour, gives dates, etc.


Maybe you havent noticed, this thread has been "Slash Vs. Axl" the entire time.  I object to posters who falsely claim that the 2002 tour wasnt promoted and refer to VR articles as "tour promotion" in the same vain as GNRs tour-specific ads, interviews, etc.


 ???

It would probably be great.

You couldnt be more wrong.
Can you please stop saying the same stuff that no1 is saying. No1 is sayting that the past gnr tour wansnt promoted. It was. They had a few ads running saying hey folks gnrs out on tour again. Thats it.

NOw lets compare the two once again. since you have failed to repsond to my last post.

GNr: Ads were run saying that gnr was back out on the road again.
Mtv performance

Tour results: failed tour in terms of ticket sales.
Reason: Gnr name only brought back some of its old fans.
New fans:none: why because they didnt have the proper touring promotion that every band uses.
What might that promotion consist of younggunner?
a single, video,album,interviews,more singles and videos,tour and any other marketing strategies.

VR: They are in the process of the proper promotional methods. what might those be?
a single,video,album,additional singles, interviews tour.
Gee golly, who will be going to a vr concert? any1 who likes the material. Not just stp or gnr fans.

what is the difference between the vr tour and the gnr tour? vr are actually out promoting osmething. as a result they will have better ticket sales and will be able to get new fans and keep their old fanbase.

Same will go for gnr when they release their album.

Yes booker we know the 2002 tour was promoted. If you think it was heavily promoted because it was in some newspapers and on commercials, your right it was. But that means dick. when cd comes out then thats when you can gauge gnrs success.

Not only did you say it in this very thread, but its been one of the most popular excuses since the tours failure nearly two years ago.


They had the VMAs, MTV.com features, MTV News features, Axl interviews to a handful of local radio stations, television ads, radio ads, and tons of press in various news outlets.

I hate repeating myself.  


Obviously were talking about two different things.  My original point has always been that because of decent promotion, people knew about this tour.  It was promoted well.  Apparently they werent motivated to go...then its no longer about promotion, its about the band.  All of the tickets sold were sold because of Axl and the Guns N' Roses name.  That alone wont sell out an arena tour.  It seems we agree on this - but dont blame it on "no promotion" or "poor promotion".  No album means no album, not "no promotion".


Well, there hasnt been a video, album, or additional singles yet, so you cant credit them for selling tickets.  And maybe Im mistaken, but I dont think theyre selling 2,000 tickets in 5 minutes to rabid "Slither" fans.  Its because of who they are.


Yeah, an album...an album that nobody has even heard (unless you want to really start reaching and bringing up listening parties or something).  

 
No, "we" dont, because Ive seen the "no promotion" excuse used ad nauseum on here.  

Glad to see Ive finally talked some sense into some of you though.  

Im acknowledging all that. im not denying that so why keep bringing it up.

NO1 is disputing that people didnt know about the past tour. BUt what im saying is that and it seems you agree, old fans,kids, whoever had no motivation to go other than the gnr name. That goes hand in hand with poor ticket sales.

And the way a new band gians a fan base is by having new material out and marketing that material via singles videos etc. Gnr didnt do that and as a result suffered the consequences. Do you agree with that?

Peopel buying the v tickets as of right now are stp and gnr fans. Later on when they embark on a bigger tour they will benefit because of the promotional tools they are using right now._sinles,videos,album) so when that all happens they will have a wider audeince who will either like or hate the material. and as a result we will see how well they when they do a bigger tour.

I have neevr made excuse for the past gnr tour. i have said all along that it failed and wasnt a success. I have also said it was dumb for the band to do that type of tour. If i were them i would have not toured at all until the new stuff was ready or if they wanted to really get out of the studio i would have done a qucik big city only arenea tour. That would have sold out and it would have been brief.but thats just me.

was the past tour promoted? yes. are there valid reasons why it failed? yes

Whether you agree or not with BF, there's no need to start calling names. It's in the Rules.

Btw, the end of this thread is basically a quoting orgy between younggunner and BF. I think we all got your point and none of you will change his point of view, so this thread becomes pointless.

I dont know if this point has been made yet, I dont have time to read all 5 pages.

I think GnR's mistake was booking such large venues for the first time out in 8 years.  From what Ive read they sold an average of around 10,000 tickets per show, That is actually pretty impressive considering how long they were away.

If they would have played 5- 10,000 seaters they would have sold out across the board and in some cities they could have added a second night.

It also would have taken some of the pressure off from the media who loved to report half full arenas.  

I think that as far as ticket sales go the tour was very sucessful, It just didnt look that way.

Axl may have made it through the whole tour, but instead he bit off more than he could chew.  I think that all the negativity just got to him and he said fuck it Im going home.

OUT

The 16 US TOUR shows averaged 8600 per show.

Thats an excellent turn out for any band.  they could have packed smaller places and nobody would have thought of it as a failure.

OUT : ok:

agree-they fucked up-both Clear Channel and Axl.

there is no need for anyone to try to "enlighten me" either.. Esp since most of the people on here are dipshits and dont know anything anyways...Nobody here is going to "enlightnen me"
his comment was no more an insult than mine was..

You can't call people "dipshits" just because you're mad @ someone. Most of the people here are not "dipshits".

That is your opinion, you can have an opinion but you can't insult people.

Is that understood?

On one of the pages you didn't read, I mentioned that the official press release stated that the band sold an average of 7,344 tickets per show.