Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Yes the question is.....what went wrong with Slash, Duff, Izzy and the rest of guys?? Does anyone really know what was the deal really with Axl and the others??

You know..there was the time when Axl flipped away and wanted to take the captains place. GN'R was always everybodys band...but time went by..and band started to be Axl's band..the band he wanted it to be..

what was the force that drove to that direction...was it Axls talent?? was it Axls beautifull mind...or was it that,  in the end, other band didn't want to have any kind of relationship with Axl...we remember that the ex-members (Slash..Duff..Izzy..etc) sacked Axl late 80's....or was it early 90's...can't remember..

what do you think? What really broke the original..legendary band called Guns and 'fuckin' Roses??

...it became a joke"

I think Success and Drugs hurt the others the most..

Axl knew they were all fucked up all the time.

When the others were too fucked up to handle day to day band decisions he prob stepped up and started to speak for the band...

Trying to tell band members who are fucked up why they were not included in decisions prob hurt the relationships as well...

As far as the name being transfered over to Axl Rose goes, we have only heard one side of the story...

To sum it up in a phrase: 'The Perils of Rock N Roll Decadence'. All the factors of being a rock band that big that quick killed the band.

Alcohol, drugs, sex/women, huge amounts of money, egotism and musical direction killed Guns N' Roses.

It's that simple. As Axl once remarked 'the poverty brought us together'.

Once that was gone, Guns N' Roses suffered a compound fracture that never healed.

Addressing the absence of his old band members, Rose suggests he simply needed to take control to survive. ''It is the old story that you are told when you're a kid: 'Don't buy a car with your friends,' ', he says with his eyes straight ahead.

''Nobody could get the wheel. Everybody had the wheel. And when you have a bunch of guys, I'm telling you, you are driving the car off the cliff. The reality is, go buy those guys' solo records. There are neat ideas and parts there, but they wouldn't have worked for a Guns N` Roses records.''

Axl Speaks
Rolling Stone, January 2000



/jarmo

Can't it just be because they all came from different backgrounds, had different ideas of where they wanted to be 10 years later, had different ways of handling their lifes, their time, their money, their fame, their creative sides ?

They were just too different. I think.

Yeah....Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, and Steven know.  But beyond that, nobody does.  And we've debated this subject to death.  

But for what it's worth, here is a statement made by Izzy about why he quit the band.  I find it very objective and illuminating, which isn't surprising, considering that Izzy was always the most reasonable, down to earth, and level-headed member of the band.

I knew that it was the beginning of the end as soon as Steven Adler was legally voted out for doing drugs.  That from a band that spent years doing groupies and being idiots!  But I did 'Use Your Illusion' and the tour.  I'd quit drinking and drugs and been through a year's probation.  I had my own bus [during the UYI tour] because I had a girlfriend and dogs, and there's nothing worse than waiting on somebody - their jumbo jet would sit on the runway for three hours while Axl blow-dried his hair.

Everything had become magnified - egos, drug habits, indulgence.  It wasn't about music.  We did fucking multi-million drama videos.  Like what happened to five guys playing rock n roll?  Helicopters, supermodels, it was the lamest thing.

The final straw was Axl, who was like Adolf.  He had a contract drawn up for me so he could lower me down the totem pole.  It said my wages should be reduced because I didn't move about enough on-stage.  When I heard that, I was like, "Fuck this guy." We came from the same place, helped each other, now he thinks he's the king.  So I told them to instead do the papers so I could leave [the band].  

Axl rang and said, "Will you still write with us?" and asked me to come over his house.  I walk up and he comes out and starts screaming, "Get off my property!"  I thought, "You fucking little hayseed redneck trailer trash son of a bitch."  What a dick. I drove away feeling like a mountain had been taken off my back.

Izzy, January 1993

Here is a Duff interview from Hard Force magazine, June 1999.....

Hard Force: After you finished the tour with Neurotic Outsiders, the medias started to talk about line-up problems in Guns N? Roses.  Was this the beginning of the band?s downfall?

Duff: Everything started when Slash turned his back and said : ? This is shit. ? [referring to their musical differences.]  He and Axl didn?t talk to each other anymore.  It had become quite irrational.

The communication between them?

Yes.  I was always in the middle, the one both came to see, and I got the impression I arbitrated little kids? quarrels.  Matt Sorum was never a full member of the band, he was on an ejector seat and Axl said : ? I?m gonna fire him. ?  I answered that this decision required more than one person to be taken since we were a band, that he alone didn?t own the majority.  All of this because Matt told him he was wrong.  The truth is, Matt was right, and Axl wrong indeed.

Wrong about what?

About schedules and the way Axl was late for the next album.  Susan, my girlfriend, was pregnant.  We were going to have a baby, but this band was becoming a dictatorship, everything had to get done in Axl?s way or it wouldn?t get done at all.  It wasn?t like that when we started out.  At one point, we were offered a huge sum of money to play a concert in Germany.  I thought : ? I never played for money and I?m not gonna start now! ?.  I?ve got a house, I?m secure financially.  Post-Neurotic was the worst moment of my career in Guns.  I went out for dinner with Axl and I told him : ? Enough is enough.  This band is a dictatorship and I don?t see myself playing in those conditions.  Find someone else. ?

Why did Axl become so egomaniacal and arrogant?

Because many people around him maintain him in that state of mind.  They kept telling him he was right.  Some of them feared him cause they were scared they were gonna lose their job.  It?s as simple as that.  I don?t want to do anything that goes against what I am now.  I?m honest with myself and with the people surrounding me.  Had I stayed with Axl, I would have acted against my personality.  And nothing worse could ever happen to me.  In this story, the real losers are Guns N? Roses fans, unfortunately.

So you?re not friends with Axl any longer?

Yes I am, but it doesn?t mean we agree on everything.  We?ve been thinking too much about this band.  We?ve been teenagers together, we became adults together.  Nobody can ask me not to be friends anymore with my brother.  But he?s got a problem : too many people around him confusing his mind.  To be honest, he probably doesn?t live in the same world as you and me.

We can only hope for better days.

Yes and I hope Axl won?t feel like I let him down.  I was just honest.  I didn?t wish to go on that way [referring to using the GNR name without the other founding members].  I don?t think it?s fair for our fans, and it?s certainly not fair for Slash and myself since we were the founders of this band too and contributed to its identity.  But life is unfair, so I?m not gonna waste my time complaining.

that sucks.... really sucks... That original band could have been the Greatest of all time...

oh... now i feel... well...  :no:

sad and true...

He has a point.  None of the solo albums hold a candle to any of the Guns records.

Two possibilities concerning Axl?s psychical health: either is he very very mentally ill or a pure psychopath. Though it?s not a pleasent choice I prefer that he belongs to the first category. Then there may still be hope for him to be cured. Considering his tough and evil childhood I think he still needs some help. He is abnormally moody.  :(

 ???

Thats probably because thats what they are - solo records...not Guns records.  Even if the first Snakepit was going to be a Guns record (that whole issue is debatable since none of us are sure how much or to what extent it would have been used...Slash has even implied that he didnt even want it to be a Guns record) it would have most likely sounded significantly different if the whole band would have worked on it.

The true reality is listen to what those guys did when they were in Guns...makes a little more sense than factoring in their solo work doesnt it.  And to be honest, out of the 6 or 7 Axl records we have, two ("My World" and "Silkworms") are arguably worse than anything the other members have done.  In fact, I cant think of one bad Snakepit song.  A number of average or forgettable ones, but nothing thats just bad like "Silkworms".

I agree, but what did Slash say to imply he didn't want it to be used as a Guns record?  Everything I've read that I can remember sounds like he did want it to be a Guns record.

From OralSex @mygnr.com



Enlight of all the new rumors going around I thought I would share this with you


As some of you may know I just came back from W. Hollywood a couple of days ago. While I was there two of the first people I met were the owner of the Rainbow and of the Whiskey Mario, and one of his floor managers Mike. Both had some pretty interesting information to share with me about the future of GNR. Mike told me that Duff told him (I feel so gay saying that) that if Axl called him up he would go back with GNR in a heartbeat no matter how well VR was doing. Though he said Slash would do the same, Duff wants it more.

He also said that when Slash comes into the Rainbow he sits in the same booth as the whole Novemeber Rain video thing. He said that Slash gets really quiet for the first 20 minutes or so because he is thinking about the old days and what not....

Take it for what it's worth, a reunion is only a phone call away.
Come on Axl get off your ass and give Slash and Duff a call.


Dizzy............. :P     :-*       ;)

I still say Slash and Duff are double talkin' jive motherfuckers ;D

And you know I have to support Axl  ;D :D


Here is the whole thread:


http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14783&st=0

Interesting. I wasn't aware that a studio version of "Silkworms" has been officially released yet. ::)

And from all that I have read (including what Axl himself said in an interview with Kurt Loder), Slash did originally want the material from the first Snakepit album to be the next GNR record.

Where did you read that Slash implied that he didn't even want it to be a GNR record?

Just like some of my compositions featured on albums by Lenny Kravitz or Michael Jackson, Snakepit?s songs couldn?t be played by GN?R.

---Slash, Hard Rock magazine, October 2000

Slash stated that he did take some of the material to Axl, but Axl arbitrarily rejected it.  That doesn't mean Slash wanted the entire Snakepit album to be the next GNR record.

I showed Axl some of the material I had been writing.  He said "I'm not playing this shit".  The stuff he was into, I just couldn't understand.  So I went and jammed with the other guys [in GNR] and the [first] Snakepit album came out of those jam sessions.  Then Axl comes to me and asks for the material back.  I said 'dude, that material is gone.  And if I remember correctly, I was turned down flat.'



All illogical bullshit.

i don't believe it either. at all. slash getting quiet when he sits at the booth?  :hihi: sounds like an active imagination to me...

No.......it's true.......it came from mygnr.com :confused: ;D :rofl:

Actually, the poster, Oralsex......she's cool.....I doubt she made this upl.....just sharing what she was told.  If it is bullshit, it's not her doing......it's who told her.  Just wanted to make that clear. :peace:

Yeah, exactly.  It's that good old "I heard from her who heard from him who heard from this guy who heard from his sister's friend's mother's uncle's best friend's distant relative"....

The reason it's illogical is that even if Slash and Duff did desire a reunion (Their statements to the contrary notwithstanding), Slash made it clear that he would not do it unless it was the entire original lineup and everyone was on the same page musically.  Consider this.....

If someone comes up to me and asks me if GN?R is going to get back together, I say that if it was the original band and if everybody could straighten their heads out enough to be in the same room to do it, then I would do one show if the situation was right.  We?ve been offered millions of dollars to re-group. Originally, I thought, ?Shit! A couple of days of rehearsal and then go out and play in front of a really excited, enthusiastic audience?'  Might be fun. But when we recorded a Stones song (Sympathy for the devil for the Interview with a vampire soundtrack), Axl didn?t even show up.  So everybody lost interest.  If it was the original band, including Steven Adler, if he could get his shit back together, which I know he?s been trying to do since time began, since I still talk to him all the time.  But, the chances of [all of this] actually happening are pretty much nil.

--Slash, Kerrang, June 10, 2000

Keep in mind, that was before all of Axl's recent shenanigans.

Slash still spoke with Steven??  :-\

Yes, they reconciled sometime in the mid 1990s and revived their longtime friendship.  At one point (I think 1998 or 1999), Slash said this...

The problems in GNR began when we started changing the lineup, beginning with Steven.  And then we started tinkering too much with the Guns sound.

He's basically implying that it was a mistake to fire Steven to begin with.

And of course, you are aware that Slash and Izzy jammed with Adler's Appetite last October, right?   :)  So it's obvious that Slash and Steven have long patched everything up.  All the ex-members seem to get along great now since they still jam together and speak to one another.  Slash, Izzy, and Steven jamming onstage, Steven and Izzy writing songs together, Steven and Duff jamming in the studio a couple years ago....AIN'T LIFE GRAND?   8)

Dead Horse

But then again there is good news:
I just saved a bunch of money switching to Geico

Interesting Dizzy, i didn't know that. i don't really follow the individual projects and certainly not Adlers (no offense to him).

Why yes, I feel the same way about Mr Izzy.  Too bad he's only 'big in Japan'... :-\

Pretty Tied Up and 14 Years essentially sums up what happened.  We can play the blame game, but the perils of rock n' roll decadence were enough to kill this band.


Exactly.  'Too much, too soon'.   But now, in the aftermath, the ex-Gunners are friends, and some are bandmates.  So whatever bad things happened back then has been forgiven & forgotten by all except one.

Who wouldnt love to see VR tour with Adlers Appetitte??

I think that Slash, Duff, Izzy, Steven all sharing the stage again together is not that far away.....




I wish the fucking singer would be there....

Someone said that the problems began when they made so much money that they didn't know what to do with it

First of all silk worms is not a bad song. Its a fukin awesome song. Actually except for Set Me Free I enjoy it more than anything slash has done in vr or his solo stuff. The rio version sux. The vegas version is 100x better. Plus we havnt heard a studio version yet.

People get on Axl for not doing anything over all these years but what the hell has slash and duff exactely done? They have done solo things and make a shitload of appearances. WHo cares. None of their work has come close to what they did with gnr. Plus they havnt even attempted to make any type of band with a new band until recently with vr.

Axl has taken too much time, but its for valid reasons. Being that they are moving on with the gnr name, they have accepted the responsibilities of that. And as a result they are gonna do it right. And release material that justifies the past and justifies why they kept the band name.
Yes, and Axl rejected it because it he felt it wasnt gnr standards. Axl said Slash's snakepit album would have been the next gnr album if he agreed to do it. Thank god they didnt.

Thats the problem. Creative differences. Axl has a vision of how gnr should continue to push the envelope and set new standards whereas  Slash is more about just "jamming" and doing reg rock stuff. Which is fine because Slash is great. BUt he appears very lazy and doesnt want to continue to push the envelope. There is no rright or worng. What will jsutify ones decision is when CD and the follow ups finally gets released.

Good for them. Now instead of jamming how bout they get together and make a relevant album liek they are capable of?

Maybe they have patched things up amongst themselves because they know they need that "one" to make a significant musical contribution again that meets their standards. The jury is still out on Axl. Cd and the follow ups will determine whether he needs the old members or they need him.
My rolex and my house are in gnrs corner.  ;)


As for the original topic:
To me it basically comes down to creative differences and music philosophies.
Izzy and Slash are extremely talented and fukin awesome. Thier attitude toward music is more about jamming and just making bluesy/rock type music. And thats fine. There great at it.

Axl is the same but also different. Axl had and has a vision of gnr.
 His vision got them from afd to the illusions. What failed in the illusions is that they rushed it. The ideas are great but they didnt take their time with it. And what is scary about that is that they still were great albums.
Axl wants gnr to always evolve and push the envelope, which when you think about it has been gnr theme since the beginning.

Duff is somewhere in the middle. If Axl could have been more mature in dealing with the band situation and timetables, duff would more than liekly still be in the band. But Axl isnt, hence we have VR.

Its funny how Axl gets critisized for not releasing anything in many years but what exacetly has Slash released that meets gnr standards. I understand they were solo efforts but then how come slash never picked up a phone and did something liek VR earlier? ANd attempt to make an impact in the music world again.

Yes, Gnr have taken their sweetass time. BUt they are doing so because they want to make sure its done right. Their goal is to make gnr the biggest band in the world again. Whether you think they can or not, thats for you to decide, but you cant deny them of their intentions.

And whether they kept the name or not is irrelevant. If the current band had a different name people would still get on Axl for "breaking up" the old lineup. People would still get on Axl for making a record with "freaks". People would still get on him for taking his time in making a comeback record. People would still get on him for not communicationg. Things wont change.
It doesnt matter though. The band name stays, and you can accept that or not. Its your choice.

BUt what if CD is a masterpiece. What if Gnr become the biggest band in the land again. What if people say that CD is better than AFD? WHat does all of that mean? Does it mean that Axl was and always will be gnr? Does it mean this current band is better than the old? To me it doesnt. To me it means that the old was great and the new was great. To me it would mean that gnr had 2 great eras and a crazy lil man was the man that got old and new gnr from point A to B.

Because making an impact isn't Slash's prerogative.  He wants to play rock n roll music.  It's difficult to make an impact in today's fashion-laden music industry, and virtually impossible to live up to GNR standards.

You state that Slash is "lazy" because he doesn't push the envelope.  Why the hell should he?  He's been there, done that.  Now he's old enough and mature enough to realize that proving things to people that don't even know him aren't what life is about.  To him, life is about playing guitar and having fun.  It isn't about obsessing over what the public thinks of the waves you make (or lack thereof).

Slash doesn't need to prove anything to you.  He isn't the one professing to set the world on fire with any music he creates.  On countless occasions, he's made it crystal clear that he wants to plug in his guitar and play.  He isn't concerned with setting trends, making waves, and shaking the world in its very foundation.

You are the one setting the bar for Slash, and then criticizing him for not living up to a standard that he didn't even create for himself.

At least with Axl critics, they can expect Axl to live up to the GNR standard, because Axl is the one using the GNR name, making all these promises about how his record is going to be a Guns N Roses record, and how he's gonna deliver, etc.  So as you pointed out yourself, he's setting the bar high for himself.

I think it's funny how you point out that Axl is doing things his own way rather than what people expect from him, and then you turn around and criticize Slash for doing the same thing.

Man,we're like children with divorced parents.What went wrong? Who's fault was it? Will they ever get back together? Well,kids,they both remarried! Well,kind of,because daddy Axl still refuses to make it official :)

Like i said all of that is fine. BUt its funny when peopel get on Axl for being the exact opposite. There is no right or wrong.
Im not critisizing slash at all. I have said many times that Slashs attitude towards music and life for that matter is fine. Thats how he goes about his business.
I think its funny that people critisize Axl for being the opposite. Its like "oh slash is an angel cause he just wants to jam, whereas that bastard axl wants to put his whole life into something yet gets critisized for it.

This issue has been debated a zillion times. Axl or slash are right or wrong. Its how they choose to do things and careers. What will justify each is their efforts after each have left each other. Slash has done a bunch of solo stuff that is ok at best. He has now finally put together a band that has great talent. Lets see what comes out of it. Axl has put his whol elife into these 3 albums. Lets see what comes out of it.