Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Official update is ; Guns n'roses are still together and will be touring from late May

I will further add that Sanctuary are waiting on the outcome of their action against the Greatest Hits album before deciding on what to do with Chinese Democracy

Please do not ask me any further questions as there is no further information at present

As usual, relevant items will be forwarded to Jarmo

"I will further add that Sanctuary are waiting on the outcome of their action against the Greatest Hits album before deciding on what to do with Chinese Democracy"

Crap, Crap, Crap, Crap, Crap, Crap, Crap, Crap, Crap.

That's exactly what I was afraid was going to happen.

&*$#%@  Interscope/Geffen.  Greedy SOB's.

geeez
so sanctuary are deciding of the faith of CD ?
were they the ones holding cd that long ?
why do they have to see what going on with GH ?
can't just release the CD, looks like everything is "marketing , money, money ..."

yeah well
at least the touring news is a good news

thx myst.

..................................................... :confused:

Yes

Jingle Bells Jingle Bells Chinese on the way.....this thing isn't coming out ANYTIME """"""SOOOOOOOON"""""""""""" :-[

Well, if they are going to do something about the GH, they had better do it quick since the release date is pretty soon.  Now i kinda just want GH to come out because that looks like the only thing that delaying Chinese Democracy.  I bet we will get it around May.  Well, hopefully....

damn this circus...if gnr/sanctuary takes on the legal actions, it will be long lasting battle, and that means we will not hear anytime soon from chinese democracy.

That must mean CD is done.  Cool info mysteron thanks for the post.

I can't see how they (GN'R & Sanctuary) can stop the GH at this point (unless they prove some legal reasons for a 'cease and desist'). The GH package will be shipped to record store in the next week and a half. You mean to tell me that "they" think Universal Music is suddenly going to swallow the cost of all the pressing, packaging and promotion done for the GH so far?

Sounds like a losing battle to me. Axl & Co...don't stray from your primary focus here. Release Chinese Democracy...ASAP!

This is only my -opinion-, but it's going to become clear in the next two weeks or so (release date, 13th March) as to whether or not  the Greatest Hits album is going to be released, and it would be stupid to pursue the action after the album has been released, so I would guess it is safe to assume that 'decisions' will be made in the not too distant future. Is that logical? And the fact that they are pushing on with the tour must be a good thing too, no?

I dont understand why Geffen would not want to put out CD instead of Greatest hits.  It makes no sense!  If they feel greatest hits is more marketable then CD they are dancing with Mr. Brownstone

well, this is good news. Many artists are selling tickets for May/June concert dates and usually summer festival shows go on sale very early as well.  
I assume GnR will be hitting european festivals through the first couple months of summer. These festivals already have their own built-in promotional campaign in progress, so GnR doesn't have the burden of promoting the show and having their CD out in time.  However, if they have any notions of headline their own tour in the US, or other parts of the world, they must realize that they HAVE to have the new CD out to make it any kind of success. Somehow, cooler heads will prevail and the CD will get out.
Let's hope so, at least.

I agree.  Stopping CD would mean some sort of legal injuction (issued by a judge).  The only reason I can think of, off the top of my head, that an injuction would be issued is if GnR/Sanctuary provided compelling evidence that GH breeched their contract with Interscope/Geffen.  That would get the injunction issued, stop GH, and allow GnR/Sanctuary an opportunity to argue their case in court, holding up GH until, at least, the case was settled/decided.

Extended legal battles with your label, IMHO, are never a good sign about forthcoming material.... I'm hoping this will be the exception.

:)

[quote
This is only my -opinion-, but it's going to become clear in the next two weeks or so (release date, 13th March) as to whether or not  the Greatest Hits album is going to be released
Print ads have already released for the week of GnRs greatest hits release, meaning if the GH got pulled now, the label would be on the hook for hundreds of thouasands of dollars in correction notices and/or reprinting costs. All of the main music retailers in the U.S. are going to have it in their Sunday AD on March 21st. The label is aware of the deadlines to pull it, and didn't.

IMHO, the issue is they want both.  They want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want the revenue from GH, and the new material.

thank you for the update Mysteron!!!

i hope they manage it to stop the release of GH.


... but if not, i wonder how long it will delay Chinese Democracy!?

Mysteron I know you said no questions but this question has nothing to do with what you posted.  Do you know how many albums GNR owes Geffen and if it is one will GH count as it?

Thanks

I don't think it's an issue of GH Vs CD, although I could be wrong. I think it's the label wanting more bang for their buck...and the GH to gain interest for CD. I imagine Axl wants no reminder whatsoever of the old band, and just wants all the attention on the new stuff, that's why he's pissed the Greatest Hits is being released.

IMHO, the issue is they want both.  They want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want the revenue from GH, and the new material.

Yeah I dont see why they just dont release both at the same time and promote both at once to save a little money

Agreed. And if they are beginning to tour in May I'd be willing to bet they have been rehearsing new songs from CD and will be sharing this new material on the road (seeing as how they will probably be hesitant to stop the momentum again once they get going...even for rehearsals).

But then again, who knows.  ???

For the touring - great to hear that and thanks a lot Mysteron, as usual!

For GH - be honest, it's impossible to stop this now. Here in Germany it will be out in 10 days. The ads are printed, I just asked a friend at the biggest record store here (Saturn in Cologne). Also he said that he will have the cd in his hands by monday or tuesday at the latest, which means they'd be shipped to the stores at the latest on saturday. Forget it. This can't be stopped.

I just pray that this mess does not push ChinDem back again....


/lastroots

Again, I don't think it's a matter of the label WILLINGLY pulling GH.  They obviously believe they have a right to release it.  Sanctuary/GnR obviously disagree...it'll prolly be the courts who get to decide who's right, unless Gnr decides to back down (doubtful, given Axl's penchant for litigation).

I think you're absolutely right about this. And Axl should be pissed, IMO. He's worked so hard on CD for the last 5 or more years that having this "old band vs. new band" comparrison thrown at him from his own label is unexceptable. He'll get enough of that from the press...Universal should be respectful of his wishes. Then again...respect would probably cost them too much money  :rant:

Mysteron, I just think that arguing and fighting with the label is not good in any way, shape, or form. It will only delay matters further. Next thing you know, it is summer...then x-mas..then a negotiated exit from the label...then other negotiations with new labels ......then the release of the record sometime in the next decade. The fans always get screwed in these major label wars, especially Gnr fans. We get a shitty greatest hits release and further delay of an obviously finished record. It is a never ending cycle of futility.

Again, I would guess the answer to that question is: GnR doesn't seem to want GH out, so won't turn over CD so the label doesn't really have the option to do what you suggest.  And if Mysteron's right, and this leads to further delays of CD, then any spike in revenue that GH might have brought (by being a "catalog sampler" for new fans brought in by CD) goes right out the window.

 Ah, as the World of GnR Turns....

Actually, it could be worse than that.  Depending on the contract, the "standard" label clause is they own all masters of material which they paid studio fees to record....which means that, even if GnR negotiate an exit from the label, it doesn't mean the material from CD will go with them.  Which means maybe A release in the next decade from GnR on a new label, but not necessarily THE release of CD from GnR in the next decade.

Granted, that's a "doom and gloom" worse case scenario, but entirely possible.

Thanks for the update. Damn this greatest hits and this whole fiasco!!! argh!!!

Mysteron Thank you so much for the update  : ok: good to see gnr have sanctuary on their side

Thanks Mysterion........I fucking hope the whole tour info comes to be fact.!!!!! : ok:

since the last the tour that everything seems so boring in the music world, we really need this band together and touring, and hopefully getting some new music out.

Mysteron, I for one, am happy with your news update.. and thank you by the way!  :) Sounds like if it wasnt for ther GH.. we could have a release date by now and perhaps a single by or around RIR4 time.

GN'R are still together.. and it won't be long till they are touring.. thats enough for me to keep me going.  : ok:

that?s true! i am also very happy that GNR starts touring soon.... ;D

everything else is just a time-question

just a thought, wud we have any of these troubles if the new band wasnt called Guns N' Roses? think about it if say the were called the Bongo Heads lol there wud be no beef about the GNR greatest hits being released.

i don't understand all the hate towards the label.

axl HAS all the power to stop the GH!!!!!

just turn over CD and give them the ok to release it!

then there would be no GH.

This is good news.
The tour will hopefully come to the north of England!!!
I think they should just let the GH come out, no-one except us gives a shit about it, people might buy it but they don't care.
Then get on with CD, that's the important thing here, but I imagine Axl/Sanctuary are too stuborn to let that happen.

Thanks mysteron, good of you to share with us.

Are Guns N' Roses now a law firm? All I ever read next to their name is legal this, and court battle that....

By the end of all this Axl's gonna be a certified lawyer! If he's not already...

LMAO, this is all too funny now.

AA.

The general director of Virgin Megastores in Northern Greece knows about the Greatest Hits but he doesn't know the release date.

And they haven't sent anything to record stores. No fax, no update, no nothing.

The record stores know nothing about it.

Christos
Greece

I dont understand at all.  Let's say GH is released.  Does that mean it will delay CD until fall/winter?  And if so, is GNR gonna tour without a new album AGAIN?!  It will only serve to remind people of the last failed tour without a new album!  :rant:

My simple mind tells me that the BIGGEST BANG for the buck is just to release CD!! GH $$ will be piddly compared to CD revenue!

Please not another tour without new music  :'(

I doubt they can stop the GH now. As you can see here
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3801671159&category=60738 , promotional ads have already been sent to the media. This particular ad says that there will be 40 commercials of 30 or 20 seconds on four French TV channels, two of which are big. It probably means that those commercial slots have already been bought, so I don't see the record company cancelling everything  :-\

That's interesting. Reminds me of something...

http://mysite.freeserve.com/theshockingtruth/index.html

Interesting news. Thanks Mysteron.

Crowebar would like to believe this is true but isn't prepared to get his hopes up at this time. :o :( >:(


My heart :no: has been broken too many times. :'( :-\ :-[ :crying:


I'll take a wait and see approach. :yes: : ok:


Thanks for the info though Mysteron!!! ;) :D :beer: :smoking:

Without sounding disrespectful. Can I ask what relationship you have with the band. Are you a friend of Axl's. Or do you know people on GNR infamous inner circle. The only reason I ask is that everyone treats every word you say as the absolute truth. I have no problem with this and if you have the inside track then great I wish I was you. For my own benefit can you tell me where you get you info from.
 Thanks

Mysteron thanks for the updates. You are a true General to your troops. You know how to calm us down and keep our patience steady..

The word "touring" does sound good. I still think Rio we will finally get some answers.

Fuck we have already told the record company we will not buy the GH and if the fans dont buy it sales are going to be a bust. I can see why Axl is so pissed.

Thanks again I will look forward for more of your updates in the next couple of weeks.

Looks like it came from Sanctuary.


/jarmo

thank you for the info Mysteron

ha! I had a feeling that this would all boil down to MONEY.

your posted topic thread title mentions Street Team...  I had an thought...

would it be good promotion for the NEW GN'R if the Street Teamers actively boycotted the GH?  

Why can't anything with this band be easy?

I think Axl should give up this fight and focus on the new album/ tour.

If anything reflects badly on the new band it was the no show and tour cancellation at Philly. To care now about a GH album when that matza ball is hanging out there still is ludicrous.

WHY this sentence makes me nervous EVERY TIME ?  :confused:

jarmo could u post the e-mail?

The e-mail asked Sanctuary if it was ok to post that GN'R are still together and on tour from late May. Sanctuary replied, yes to that.

It also mentioned the GH thing.




/jarmo

How cool would it be to listen to "Contraband" on the way to a Guns n Roses gig?  :hihi:

Probably because ClearChannel promoted the American leg of the tour and we all know how that turned out and although Clear Channel sucks, they are the big promoters for most/all concerts.

Great news if GNR tour again.....but who will promote them?  

Clear Channel is a beast. I'm glad they won't be promoting anything associated with GnR again.

So what are the options other than Clear Channel?  

Fantasma or could GNR fund it themselves?

Some people who post here should promote GNR's tour.  I think there are a few on here who have had some great marketing ideas........but they'd probably outshine Axl and he'd fire their ass.

Gee, that was almost a dig against Axl!  :hihi:

Im very dissapointed Crowe.. where was your legendary infamous puke?

I think you have a better chance of getting struck by lightening than you do going to a Guns gig.  And you have even a better chance of dying from that lightening bolt than Guns showing up. :peace:

Mysteron,
If they do in fact stop Greatest Hits, will Chinese Democracy come out before the tour or at least sometime this year.  And if they do NOT stop Greatest Hits do you think Chinese Democracy will be scrapped forever?  I appreciate any response you can give me for this question.  I just have to know I've been on edge for months for any new news.  Thank-you

Thanks Mysteron.Reliable as always.

Possibly the start of that 2 and a half year tour we heard from Rikki Rachman?

Thanks for the heads up, Mysteron. That's always appreciated. I don't think Sanctuary will be able to stop the GH CD (we're talking like 10 days before the European release) but that's good to know the band is still together! :)

Probably not  :no:

Well, all that is left to do is just wait and in a few days we will find out a lot of info regarding what is going to happen with the future.  Till then I will be on the edge of my seat.  Nervous as hell  :nervous: :nervous:

Well, Suki kind of got mad at me the other day because she felt I was overusing the puking smiley.  :-X :-\

 :nervous: :confused: :nervous:


But, just for you GunnerDownUnder, I officially [puke] all over this whole thread untill the real truth is known!!!

 : ok: :peace: :beer: :smoking:

Uhhh.....


Thank you, thank ya' very much. [bow]

I am as much a hardcore GNR fan as anyone on this board and I own all the albums, both on vinyl and on cd, but I still would like to see the Greatest Hits coming out. I would even buy it. Actually, I'm very much looking forward to buying it.

I understand where Axl's coming from with all this old band - new band thing, and that all the promotion should be for the new and not the old. But the truth is that the band's name is still the same so promoting the old is promoting the new guys, too.

The GH is not for me, it's not for you, it's not for any of us on this board. It's for the "new people", the ones who are not hardcore fans but who know Welcome To The Jungle and November Rain. They don't have the albums and they won't buy the albums. They are not willing to learn the brilliance of Coma or appreciate Right Next Door To Hell to get that damn November Rain. But many of them will buy the GH because they get all the songs they like in one package. I know I have done the greatest hits thing with bands that I'm not that obsessed with but who have a couple of decent songs. I'm sure most of you have done that too.

Promoting the old songs is promoting the new album. The GH tracklist is too "easy" and not too "deep" for us, but it's perfect for those who don't know that much of GNR in the first place. They will pick it up because of the biggest hits, learn that it's a good band with good songs that go even further than just those basic hits that they already knows and when Chinese Democracy hits the store a month or two later, maybe they'll give it a try.

We are a very minor group amongst all the possible record buyers. We are anticipating Chinese Democracy, but the majority of people aren't. There are lots of people that would look at CD in the store, have vague idea who and what the band is, and then put it aside and buy something they know better. The band vanished from the public 10 years ago. Everyone is not reading the GNR pages on the web, everyone is not reading even the magazines with their "What ever happened to Axl Rose?" articles. These are people who were like 10 when GNR were big and not all of them really knew about the band even then, let alone now. Now they're in their twenties with money and a desire to listen to good music. And they know Paradise City when they hear it. And they know WTTJ. But still they should be taught who the band behind those songs is.

That's where the Greatest Hits fits nicely.

And this could be in another thread....

I am not anyone special, and I personally have no direct relationship with Guns n'roses. As I have explained before, I have family members who are musicians, and friends who are influential people in the music industry. I'm just seeded that way. And although I have done some work in the music industry, mainly favors etc, I actually work in a totally different industry sector  :hihi:

Anyway, get back on topic now  ;D

Stopping GH seems impossible with 10 days remaining to release. Good to hear them touring again. Mysteron do u know anything about the tour promoting? I think CC will not again.

Thanx for the info. : ok:

Well, that was/is the theory.  I certainly haven't seen that confirmed anywhere, by anyone remotely "official".  You sorta state it as fact....and it very well may not be.

Does it have to be this difficult?

I've never seen so many obstacles in the process of releasing a fucking album. Legal battles, Label dsiputes, band members departures, cancelled gigs...shit, GNR should be covered on a "Law and Order" episode. Shit, they could even have enough material for the entire season.

I'm not a lawyer, not a label shark, not an insider. I'm just a fan. Are these records ( the Greatest hits/ Chinese democracy as well) done for the fans or done to fill up the lawyers, labels, management pockets? Why are so many interests? Why does it look like this band is not a people's band anymore?

So the band are still together. Together meaning the current members still receive their monthly paychecks? I don't see them together. Tommy, Dizzy, BH, Brain...they all touring...solo!!! They are all updating their solo sites and having a blast touring in front of 400 people. Shit, I wish they were half as enthusiastic when they talk about GNR.

As for the GH release, it's just another brick in the wall. Another legal battle, another label-management dispute. They will eventually reach an agreement so both parts are happy, but how'bout the fans? Do we want that (GH) album? Do we need al this legal nonsense bullshit?It seems to me that the label/managemnt/band don't really give a fuck about the fans. However, at the end of the day, how will fill their pockets with loads of money?

Again, allow me to reinterate: Cancelling and being compelled to remove CD via court order are completely different animals.  I agree...the label isn't going to cancel GH, of their own accord, come hell or high water at this point.  However, a court issued injuction, telling them they CAN'T sell GH, regardless of promotional expenses already incurred, would.  You can't "choose" whether or not to obey an injunction.....

you're right, that is just speculation on my part....partly based on rumors started by others on this board that there was a threat given to axl - release CD (in 6 months?) or we release GH.

and i think most people would agree that my point is probably true.

true or not, i still do not understand the anger towards the label.....they have been more than patient with their investment in CD. and where has it gotten them? in the hole a couple million.

Are these records ( the Greatest hits/ Chinese democracy as well) done for the fans or done to fill up the lawyers, labels, management pockets?

Ummm...unfortunately for us, all of the above.....

I think the anger is routed not just in GnR's dealings with the labels, but in the overall way labels do business.  Trust me when I say that the labels "patience" isn't remotely altruistic.  The "patience" is motivated, I'm sure, by the bushels and bushels of money they think will be made from release of CD...just like the release of GH is motivated purely by greed....by their wanting to "cash in".  That overall pattern of greed over consumer satisfaction, or artist "rights", is something that has been evidenced over the past 20 years...and I think the growing dissatisfaction with their standard "modus operandi" fuels the anger in this case, as well.

I think most of us realize that music is a business.  But there are certainly very different ways to run a business, and the record labels (and there is plenty of evidence out their to suppor this, FYI, though I'm not going to provide examples..others may) seem to choose the smarmiest, nastiest, most foul way to conduct business.  Essentially, the artists get screwed, the fans get screwed, and the labels make billions....

the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit.

but who the hell cares if axl gets pissed off a little?? and don't tell me that if he's pissed it will delay CD. the label has bent over backwards for him for years and look where that has gotten them.....NO WHERE!

i think it's about time they played hard ball.

and all axl has to do is let it be known that he is 100% against the GH. it'll be good publicity and he'll even gain some sympathy in the public eye.

of course there's greed in business ("greed is good...." WS).

and it sucks that fans get screwed.

but this is NOT an example of a record label screwing anybody over.

"the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit. "

Maybe, maybe not.  It's certainly going to garner ill will with the fans toward the label.  Whether that ill will has any effect is debateable.  From the sounds of the email being described from Sanctuary, it's not "it may delay CD", it's "it WILL delay CD".  I'd say that's certainly a negative.  It also may lead to an extended legal battle between GnR and the label...and that's not good for anybody (not GnR, not the fans, and not the label) and COULD lead to a breech of contract judgement, on one side or the other, which could not only delay CD, but wipe it off the map for 20 years or so (when the vaults open up).  Obviously, not being a direct party to any of the goings-on, I'm making some drastic assumptions, but I think it's grossly oversimplifying things to say "the ONLY negative to releasing the GH is that it might piss off axl a little bit".  I think the scenario you present is actually the BEST case scenario..and I hope that's all that happens if GH is released.

"of course there's greed in business ("greed is good...." WS).

and it sucks that fans get screwed.

but this is NOT an example of a record label screwing anybody over."

It's not?  How do you figure.

Axl and GnR get screwed because they don't approve of the GH.  

Axl and GnR get screwed because, due to the song selection, their cut of the album sales is going to be VERY, VERY small.

Axl and GnR get screwed because the GH could very well lower the sales on their existing catalog, where their royalty rates are much higher.

The fans get screwed because it delays CD.

The fans get screwed AGAIN because they're "bilked" out of their 15 bucks for a compilation CD with nothing new.

Sure looks like an awful lot of screwing going to me....

every one of your "drastic assumptions" would be axl's doing......which would stem from "axl getting pissed off".

and if he wants to take that far....he's an asshole.

and maybe he will blow things out of proportion like you suggest. maybe he wants an excuse NOT to release the album.

i think your comments are ridiculous.

- axl has already screwed the label
- the song selection is a matter of opinion (i think the selection does maximize sales....it's a "commercial" list)
- i could argue catalog sales will increase since more people will be turned on to gnr
- CD being delayed is 100% axl's call
- i'm a fan and i have the choice NOT to buy CD

the ball is in axl's court.
it has always been in axl's court.
and it always will be in axl's court.

if and when CD comes out, and how gnr fans get treated is totally up to him.

"every one of your "drastic assumptions" would be axl's doing......which would stem from "axl getting pissed off".

and if he wants to take that far....he's an asshole.

and maybe he will blow things out of proportion like you suggest. maybe he wants an excuse NOT to release the album. "

Again, that's a gross oversimplification.  I would argue that the label is just as much to blame for all of my drastic assumptions, since they could have avoided any chance of them by NOT releasing GH...something they know Axl/GnR didn't want.  It takes two to tango, as it were.

As for the other arguments, I guess it all falls down to why you assume Axl wants to stop GH.  If, in fact, it's just because he doesn't agree with the label promoting the old band over the new band, then I tend to agree.  That's a bit childish.  However, if it's a matter of contractual rights OR a matter of the material not being what Axl considers to be GnR's best..well, that's different.

I also would venture that protecting what he thinks (and his lawyers would have to agree) are his contractual rights/artistic rights doesn't make him an asshole.  It makes him a smart businessman.  Trust me when I say that the label, if IT'S rights within the contract were being violated, would do the same thing.

Now, as to the question of him "blowing things out of proportion", I guess that's a question of perspective.  I think that if his interpretation of his rights to the material is correct, and he's not just fuming mad because he doesn't want people thinking of Slash when they think of GnR, then he has every right to protect GnR any way he sees fit.  He has to...GnR is his livelyhood, it's not the labels.  To the label, GnR is just one more tree, in a whole damn forest, to pluck apples from...someone has to be the one looking out for the well being of GnR.

"i think your comments are ridiculous.

- axl has already screwed the label
- the song selection is a matter of opinion (i think the selection does maximize sales....it's a "commercial" list)
- i could argue catalog sales will increase since more people will be turned on to gnr
- CD being delayed is 100% axl's call
- i'm a fan and i have the choice NOT to buy CD

the ball is in axl's court.
it has always been in axl's court.
and it always will be in axl's court.

if and when CD comes out, and how gnr fans get treated is totally up to him."


I'm sure you do think they're ridiculous, since they contradict your stated position.  Be that as it may, let's take each point:

"axl has screwed the label"
Proof?  Fact is, nobody knows what the contract with the label says.  The Fact is, if GnR had violated the contract in any way, the label would have sued them.  Fact is, if the contract is so incredibly biased toward GnR that it allows this kind of procrastination, then that's the labels fault.  They signed the contract and knew what they were getting into.  The label has not been screwed by GnR, or, at least, no evidence of that "screwing" is around.

"- the song selection is a matter of opinion (i think the selection does maximize sales....it's a "commercial" list)"

True enough.  But it's a selection of songs that Axl, seeminly, doesn't approve of.  As for the reduced royalty rate that the album will generate, well, there's no real denying that.

- i could argue catalog sales will increase since more people will be turned on to gnr
 
You could, but then you'd look at RIAA data, and realize that in many cases, when a GH album is released, the sales of the back catalog covered by the GH album tends to lag.  Could GnR's GH album be different (like Nirvana's)? Sure it could.  But it's just as likely that it won't.

- CD being delayed is 100% axl's call

Hmmm, maybe, maybe not.  Again, we're not party to the legal wranglings going on.  It could be Axl's call, it could be Sanctuary's call, or it could be their legal teams call.  Minute distinctions, true, but important ones all the same.  Also, con't dicoun the labels influence in the delay.  Since I know they're smart people, they must have had a pretty good idea, given what happened last time that they tried to release GH, that releasing GH now could very well delay CD.

- i'm a fan and i have the choice NOT to buy CD

You sure do.  On that, we certainly agree.

Since this thread has quickly degenerated into a conversation between the two of us..how about we take it to PM's?  I'm sure we're boring the hell out of the rest of the posters!
:)

Sandman, I think you are forgetting one critical factor in the Axl/Geffen relationship-Axl (and the band Gnr) made Geffen millions upon millions upon millions of dollars. Axl did not reap the rewards of his work NEARLY as much as Geffen benefited. So, saying Axl screwed the label is ridiculous.Even considering the costs of the Chinese Debacle recording sessions, Geffen clearly has made a ton of money on the band. Axl is going to deliver an album and probably two from these sessions. In my opinion, Axl has every right to play hardball. They simply are releasing a shitty representation of a GREAT band. I really hope they work it out quickly. :beer:

I mean the word STILL  :P

"Guns n'roses are still together"

looks like they could separate tomorrow...  :-\

yeah now GH is reason for delaying CD... what will be the next reason Axl will find? toothache?

You talk a lot of sense Pilferk. Couldnt have said it better myself.

NO headache......his dreads are pulling his head to tight :P

I guess this means we'll have to play the waiting game even longer before they decide what to do with CD.  This sucks.  They need to go ahead and release GH, and put the rest of their promotion into Chinese Democracy.  Does this mean that Chinese Democracy could be scrapped? Please say it ain't so!

Please show me an official account of where these current members of gnr are getting paid for their services or have gotten paid.

Its a fukin myth. The peopel who have gotten paid are the people that have come and gone. Navarro, May, sunshine etc. Bucket, tommy, robin, brain,pittman,fortus and dizzy might have initially gotten paid in the very beginning but i truly doubt they are getting paid now. Theya re a fukin band. Most of you fail to reconize that they are also very good friends. Best friends? Prob not, i cant say, im not there but there are good friends from thier accounts. They arent fukin hired guns. Finck has been in this band since 97. He is the heart and soul. He cares about gnr as anyone.  The rest of the band has been around since 98-2000...

These guys didnt create this band or create its legacy but that is the past. WHat is in the present and the future is their efforts in gnr. They are a band. Not the convential way in terms of starting out but have grown as a band. Unless you show me factual proof that they have been getting paid over the years then shut the fuck up about that stuff. Im not saying i know for a fact they dont get paid, but they are a band and until proven otherwise im not gonna believe they do.

I'm sure they get paid. Why should being good friends or being a real band be a reason not to get paid? I'm friends with my publisher. And also he pays for my work (I'd have a problem if he wouldn't...)

/lastroots

\

Umm,...I think we can relax. I don't think anyone is losing sleep over who is getting paid.. I don't think anyone really knows the pay schedule of GnR, and why would we? GnR is Axl Rose. Period. The new guys all probably have individual contracts. I wouldn't think they're official members of the band. Yes, they may be a band but I assume they get paid a weekly salary, or they get paid when Axl has them on retainer.
I would be lying if I knew how they would get paid if an album were to come out. Besides obviously getting publishing $$ if they helped write certain songs, I wouldn't think they would get a piece of the pie from album sales. That would all go to Axl, who owns the names GnR and is GnR.

Very good point(s)! : ok:

and it is pertinent for us fans to note, as you stated that Axl/GN'R and thier management team are ultimately are the only ones who can act to protect the interest of the band.  Axl has been through a lot of shit so that WE could have a fuckin' band...  I think we should support our band.

I think Axl pays them big money to keep this 'project' together...

pilferk - i see your point about the contracts. i haven't considered that fact much because no one knows what's in the contract.

(i would assume that if it was that cut and dry, the label wouldn't risk getting sued by axl, but that's just me).

but even if we assume that axl has a legal right to stop or sue them....i still don't see how this guarantees a delay in CD being released.

it just seems like everyone is making so many assumptions.

and i can't feel bad for the guy when he's taken sooooo long already. finish the album and turn it over!!

Last comment on the boring stuff, I promise!! :)

Contracts are often not as "cut and dry" as people think they are.  Different lawyers, different judges, etc will interpret the contractual language (which, I can assure you, reads like very boring foreign stereo instructions) very differently.  The label probably, if it is some sort of contractual dispute, really believes they have the legal right to do what they're doing (and have a bastion of lawyers who believe the same).  Axl probably honestly believes the opposite, and has another bastion of lawyers who are like minded.  That's where the delays crop up...arguing breech of contract would mean that the material would become part of any settlement, and NEITHER side could release it (as in publish it..Axl could play the whole CD live every night if he so desired) until the case was decided.

Again, lots of assumptions there, I agree.  What it all boils down to is no one knows what the fuck is really going on....

from what mysteron has said, it sounds like he has turned it over

700, I believe it is more likely that the album is done. However, Axl and Sanctuary will not turn the final mix over to Geffen until the GH dispute is settled. >:(

If they tour w/out performing anything new, they will NEVER get any interest by any promoter for another US tour after the last debacle. OTOH, maybe IF they end up touring, Axl will have some kind of rant against the label...
I still have my doubts he shows at RIR.

How does all this Greatest Hits stuff impact Velvet Revolver? If they are trying to make their own mark in music, shouldn't they be just as upset as 'GnR' appear to be over the release of this album? Or, am I just barking up a wrong tree?  ???

So elocuent...::) Shouldn't you be in your High School debate class?

Ok kid, No, I don't carry a copy of their paychecks around with me all the time , but when you hire somebody, you pay him/her ( you even mentioned they were " hired guns") Do you think Tommy, BH, Robin are doing this for the GNR cause? Would you say they were paid just once years ago when they joined the band but haven't receive anything after that?

As for their " friendship", where is the factual proff you were talking about earlier that they are really friends? on Stage? It does look like Axl's relationship with the hired guns is basically a working relationship. Not friends, not comrade...speaking of comrades, wasn't that meant to be the tilte of the upcoming album by VR? see, they, on the other hand, seem to have a friendship bond.

Official update is ; Guns n'roses are still together and will be touring from late May

Thank Mysteron...  : ok: