Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I am wondering if anyone can argue the fact that Robin Finck, Buckethead, Tommy Stinson and Dizzy Reed have sold out their integrity.  Sure they are being in a band that they can "get abused for" as Axl said.  But when you sign a contract to be in a band where you have zero say in how things work, you must expect people to call you on it.  

1.  They are in a band where they have zero say in the administration.  Sure they may make musical suggestions, but they have zero say when GNR tours or releases Chinese Democracy.  If this is the case, how can they be viewed as anything but hired help?

2.  Part of their contracts obviously state they can not give updates on the new album.  I can't believe Tommy Stinson gives updates on his website and doesn't even mention GNR.  That is pretty sad.  I am really disapointed in the other band members, not for the music, but for their silence.  It seems like not one other band member of GNR has given us any real info.  Even Kushner of VR has given us rock fans updates on Contraband.

Of course it all comes down to money.  The other GNR bandmembers are getting paid a lot to keep quiet and to do as they are told.

I am sure a lot of you would say "You would do the same thing and take the money," and mabey I would, but I would be selling out my intergrity in the process.

I never saw anything else in them but hired guns - not a bad job though, money for nothing... ;) Plus the general public won't blame em for being part of this sad mess because they don't even know !

I wouldn't say so, Finck was in a band made up of hired guns prior to GNR, Bucket doesn't talk about anything anyway, Stinson is "good friends" w/ Axl and probably shares the same view as Dizzy in which they probably just respect Axl's wishes for not saying a lot.

You didn't mention Brain, who I've never heard a word from on anything he's ever done.

So what if they have to keep quiet, you know why this is dont you?
ITs so people like you cant bitch at them when they say something and then those plans chance.  The members will be able to talk about anything once the album comes out but axl does not want anything to leak out which it hasnt.
So I think his plan is working.

I was about to respond when I realized one thing: Both points are based on complete speculation.  Now, we can play the what if game...that's fine...but at least label it as speculation that you'd like to discuss.  Nobody here has read the contracts of the GnR members, no one is privy to what discussions occur amongst the band mates, or how much input they have, and nobody knows if the "gag" order is something that was agreed upon by the band,  imposed by Axl, or imposed by the label (agreed, the last option being the most unlikely).  You may be correct, you may not be but the point is: We don't know one way or the other.....

I suspect GnR is run very much like a business is run.  Axl talks to all the members, gets their input, and then he makes the final decisions...very much like the CEO of a company does.  But, even in that suspicion, I'm speculating.  

It's either way a very disappointing situation

I suspect GnR is run very much like a business is run.  Axl talks to all the members, gets their input, and then he makes the final decisions...very much like the CEO of a company does.  But, even in that suspicion, I'm speculating.
.
So a business group run by a dictator who due to his lack of creativity needs to leach some help.
God how unlike the GNR the world originally fell in love with. Originally it was simply about talent and spunk.
Gee feels like rock n roll to me.


If it isnt vaguely an equal partnership decision (beyond the musical ideas as thats an invalid point cos he obviously needs there input ) wise then how exactly is it a band rather than a solo project??????.....anyone????

Are they playing the type of music that they love??  If NO money was involve and NO expectation of fame would they act the same way......silence and being subordinant....if the answer is no then they soldout

A hypothesis that was built on pure imagination.

I agree with that, nobody knows exactly what the actual contracts say.

I agree with that, nobody knows exactly what the actual contracts say

ok base your theories on the actions of the band then.....what assumptions do rational people come to then.

the new/latest Gn'R lineup is a joke....

This band will NEVER be what it was cause its missing some essential members...can any1 say SLASH !!!!

I think it was a learning experience for all those involved.  I mean, when they were approached to join in the first place I'm sure the promises and sales pitch, exposure and yes, the money, all  looked very promising... :beer:
Everything happens for a reason and while it's rather easy to see (to some extent anyway) what Axl had to understand about "the real round 2"--it is rather difficult from our angle to see what the purpose was for the other band mates.
I don't know why you expect to find updates on GNR on another musicians web site, but that's your expectation, your frustration.  Do they regret being part of the new GNR...maybe, maybe not...one thing is for sure, they learned something (be it good, bad or ugly)
You just sound really frustrated...and you're taking it out on the band for not saying anything...what about your boy, Axl?  :-X

To perfection.   ::)

This is just way too funny.  His plan sucks.  He has no plan.  And 2004 will likely be a dead year just like 2003.  Great plan Axl.   : ok:  You're the best.

As for why the hired guns might not talk up their involvement in GNR ... how about out of complete embarrassment.  No musician in his right mind wants to be associated with this mess right now.  They might not even have confidentiality contracts, but they might just downplay their involvement because of the industry wide joke it has ebcome.

I honestly do not see how some of you keep this positive spin on this.  It is baffling.

/Tulip

Meh, unless you've been in the studio and in meetings, you don't know what you're talking about. If the entire band, bar Axl, had zero say in anything, they would have blown up, regardless of their "hired guns" status. They have a lot of input, like a "democracy", if you will  :hihi:

''I agree with that, nobody knows exactly what the actual contracts say.''

No but we have a pretty good idea of how it is.

BTY I just downloaded the 1988 VMA's when GN'R played WTTJ! Man! That was a fucking band!!!! :o What the fuck happened??  ??? Wish I was older enough to have seen the late 80s GN'R!

The bottom line is that these guys would not be in this band if they didn't believe in it.  They have to believe in the new music.  Sure money talks, but really, how much money can they possibly be making??  Its not millions of dollars.  There is no way they make huge fucking dollars.  I think that by now they are all friends with each other.  A few members knew each other before joining GNR.  I don't think these guys sold out there integrity, and if you think what they're doing is selling out their integrity, I can't fucking wait to sell out mine.  Play in a huge rock band and get paid for doing something that I enjoy doing.  Banging all the groupies and getting drunk and fucked up all the time.  Sounds good to me. :smoking: :smoking:

Again, you're discussing my speculative feeling of "how it works".  As is mentioned by another poster, my theory is based "purely on imagination"...just like the original posters.  Maybe they DO all have equal input into the biz side of things.....I don't know.  But it's not really worth getting all worked up over, again considering nobody here has seen the contracts or been in the meetings.

i cant blame any of the bandmembers for not acknowledging their involvement with Gn'R. all of the current bandmembers have other projects running in the looong offtime from GnR. i definately think that they downplay their roll so that fans will stop running to them everytime there in public badgering them : "whens CD coming out?!" i dont think it's accurate to say all memebers involved in this project get payed to do nothing as they have most definately worked their asses off! :D

They sell out didn't unless they believe they shouldn't be in a band where they have no say over the production/marketing/releases.

If, however, they want to make music with the greatest frontman of all time, and get paid for it, then who are we to slag them off?

maybe just a little, anytime u are sort of a cult followed figure and jump to a mega super band it can be considered a sell out of sorts but who cares as long as they help axl make a great cd i could care less bout there integrity

the saddest part of this whole sordid saga is that out of the ashes of the old band, Axl managed to put together what was in many ways a better band than the first one!! And then, he proceeded to never give them a chance to really show their stuff. Man, this band could have been an amazing story.

Now it's just a very depressing joke.

As someone posted previously, how people can remain so positive is absolutely baffling. It's nice to daydream, but at some point you have to get your head out of the clouds, and look at the cold hard facts.

GNR is dead.

All of the member of the new GN'R are just hired musicians,that's what alot of people seem not to understand.Axl is the one who calls all of the shots,sure the band members wrote some of the music,but that doesn't mean that they have any say into whatever Axl wants to do  :beer:

If they where HIRED MUSICIANS then why the hell arnt people comin' n' goin'!!!

read this

GUNS N' ROSES

Robin Finck
Richard Fortus
Brain
Tommy Stinson
Dizzy Reed
Chris Pittman
W. Axl Rose

this IS GNR, n' there here to stay!! : ok:

Maybe,I dunno,none of us really know shit when it comes to GN'R these days,and they are hired musicians,you can believe it or not,I could care less really  :peace:

I don't think they sold their credibility.  All of the guys in the band, Tommy, Fortus, Brain, have said that they are very proud of the work they've done for the new album.  Tommy says that Axl pushed him to heights he never would have reached otherwise.  They also have had plenty of time to pursue their own projects.  The band has been a very solid unit since 2000, Buckethead is always something of an enigma who marches to his own beat so him leaving the band wasn't a surprise but even when he left, Axl was gracious and didn't rip him which shows that Buckethead's contributions were very important and appreciated.

totally agreed

likewise

was there any reason to bump up this thread???

obviously the band members aren`t allowed to say anything until the announement is out....

You bumped up the first thread of the forum from over 2 years ago just to say that  :-X

i did??

i guess it was a better thread than this one :hihi:

Who are you to judge their level of integrity? That is the most asinine thing I have ever heard.

Are there actually people out there who think they really know these people and their inner workings - not to mention the inner workings of GN'R?

Listen up, my friend, your world is on media-induced life support. Don't let it go so far that you actually believe you can pass judgment on people you've only read about. Pull the plug...

I'm afraid some of them are just here for the money, for their paycheck, and not for the music. That's just a weird impression I have sometimes.
I hope it's just an impression and that it is not the case.

you could have been making those lists for years and they would have always changed :hihi:

It's axl and some guys he hired.. No one is denying their contributions or their guts for sticking it out, you just can't get any people of the street and call it guns n roses..

I hate when people try and force others that this is gnr.. For me it's axl and some dudes no one has ever heard of.. No one is untouchable here but axl..

Finally I think BH was cool simply because he said I have to wait, re do parts, fuck this I'm off to do my thing.....

For a new band to wait so long is a real shame, and to not even be able to speak their minds because they know something said wrong could ruin their chances sucks

i don`t think so....    from what i heard them say they love being in gnr.....

brain used to joke a little about his motives though.....



i know about your opinion about this band, but i think this is definitely the final line up.... robin and tommy are in gnr for almost 9 years now by the way.....   your right, it sucks to have to wait for a new band`s music that long. i guess that`s axl`s privilege....

but i don`t think they`re forbidden to speak their minds about all this... i`m fine with them not talking that much before the announcement is finally issued.... if it`s actually about to come out next week of course :peace:

i think bucket could`ve said whatever he wanted and axl wouldn`t have fired him :hihi:

mmm oh yes they are hired gunners... and that sucks!   :P 

Don't bump 2-year-old threads unless you have something of substance to add. Thank you.