Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Kinda out there, but I'm a bit bored and wanted to start some sort of debate. Religion is usually the key to peoples heart, so...

Evidence clearly shows that religion is on the decline. A couple of hundred years ago it was a criminal offence not to go to church, and blasphemy was an offence until recently. Now, one of the biggest selling books of our time is a trilogy dedicated solely to ridiculing organised religion and, ultimately, killing god. (His Dark Materials.) We are living in an increasingly secular world.

I was wondering if any of you thought that, eventually - be it 200 years or 2000 from now - organised religion will no longer exist. I'm not going to say that people won't believe in some sort of 'God', but I do believe that people will cease to class themselves under the 'catholic' 'islamic' 'hindu' etc etc terminologies that they do today. I, as one who has seen a human's future as no more than "a handful of dust" for a few years not, consider this to be the logical progression for man. (cf Lyotard - french philosopher of the 70's...)

What do you lot think?

There will always be some questions about our own existence and mortality which we cannot answer.  So on that basis, some form of religion will always exist.

However, I'd predict that all of the religions we know of today will eventually wear thin and die, as have all other religions before them.

Thousands of years ago, people believed that gods controlled the moon, the sea, and the winds, among many other things.  But the ever-deepening rationality of Science resoundingly disproved them.

Science will continue to do just that.  Historically speaking, no religion has ever been able to stand up to Science, and Science will continue to obliterate all religions which cross its path.  It won't happen overnight, but eventually people will have to formulate new systems of belief which surround any unknowns that remain.

I think that christianity is on the decline, yes.

Mainly, catholicism. When catholicism started, it excluded women.

It is important to stress that out, because in those times, in Palestine, in Rome, and in pagan worlds, women had religious power as well as political power. Women could be intellectuals, could posses land in their own names, could ask for divorce without consent, they could even baptize children.

Historians ( i can give you my sources) have now proved all this and the 1st popes did it on purpose.

In a world were women had become weak, and where men only could have power, men didn't hesitate in spreading the Virgin Mary lie ( ENORMOUS LIE) and the world became totally dominated.

You must think that women would never have bought the story, because they have always known what was the ONLY way to have a kid ( before sperm banks and cloning of course).

Women aside, it functionned for almost 2000 years.

Now that women have gained their individual liberties, now they work, now they are in control of their sexualities, now they don't get married as much, religion has not much meaning.

People will always need faith though. They need something to believe in. And i see nothing wrong with that.

What i see as wrong is deciding as to what God is simply on the word of men, what is wrong is making a gender weaker by law, what is wrong is killing millions of people in the name of 1 faith, what is wrong  is preaching about a God most preachers have never heard or seen in their lifetime ( whereas psychics fucking do).

According to the Fatima predictions, Catholicism will soon die out, and astill according to these predictions, it will come from the inside of their church.

Could it be because of pedophilia and the world seeing that a society of men only is wrong, probably.

On top of it, and i can give you all the sources, the whole catholic religion is based on a lie.

Jesus was never crucified, he was married, he had kids and has descendants today.

The saying goes :

When you build a castles on clouds, beware of the fall.

"Do you think religion will eventually become extinct???"

We can only hope so. :D

No. Of course not.

I don't really think religion has declined very much at all, in fact, I'd say interest in it has increased in recent years.

Organized religion, at least the long standing traditional ones, may be giving way to other, more individual, spirituality focused religions, but it's still religion.

Besides, I believe in Christianity, and I don't think the truth will ever go away, even if people don't like it.

Even if you don't like it, Christianity is not the truth.  The word "truth" is defined as proven fact which cannot be refuted.  Christianity is far from that.

uhhh just because something cant be proven doesnt mean it cannot be true

im not religious but i do believe we are greater than the sum of our parts...religion has given us so much it would be a shame to see it die out...i dont believe it will as the world tends to go through cycles...we are quite near the top of this negative religious cycle but at some point i believe it will turn back...we always want things we dont have and human curiousity will always be there to bring it back.

Science and religion can coexist, there is no reason it cant, Einstein was very much religious as well as being the greatest scientist of the 20th century...


 

Actually, that's exactly what it means.

From Webster's dictionary....

Truth (noun) something in accordance with facts; the state of being exact or correct.

Now ask yourself, does Christianity meet the above definition?

Of course it doesn't.  If Christianity were factual, it wouldn't be religion.  It would be history taught in schools, and nobody would worship it.

The point of religion is that it isn't truth, it's faith.  And those two items don't go hand in hand.  I don't have faith that the world is round.  I know the world is round because that is the proven truth.  Nobody knows that Jesus exists in an ethereal state, so that is not the truth.

Understand the difference?

Defination be gone! sayith the LORD....LOL. I have to agree with Axls there Dizz, Just because something cannot be proven doesnt mean its not true. Now before you try and throw a book at me over teh brodband hear me out. Is graviety true? Of course it is, was it true 5000 years ago? Yes  it was. Was it true to man at the time who had no concept of it? Of course it was. Becuase something is not proven cannot make it untrue, Truth is also defined as being what you beleive, "A statement proven to be or accepted as true." As the old adage goes, "as long as you beleive that it is true then it is true."

Personally im agnostic, Born and raised catholic. I see  so many other relgions that are .... more intuned to my understandings however they are still relgion.

Relgion it self will exist for many hundreds of years, perhaps even thousands of years (if we survie that long), However this is based on one of teh meanings of relgion, "A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion" hell by that that would mean science is a relgion.

and for once i have no real zeal for this discussion.....However...... i jsut read the prior posts again, it always amazes me how people like my parents can stan dup and preach at me over and over and over again that my choice is wrong, how my belief is wrong.

BTW Jessica, Oh how i love when you post, you always get my blood pumping :) Hook me up with your sources on the based on a lie stuff, I know ive heard it all b4 but i need a refresher. ohhhh and the virgin part i agree with you.. its BS, but you know its statsicly possible for a chick to get pregent simply from teh contact with sperm (if the sperm are retaredly great) to the outer vaginal opening

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"Show me a man without sin, and ill show you a million sins that that man has made."
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Relgion, and its cannons are so......outdated. not to mention that alll relgions are sooooo contradictory. In one line they tell you to populate the earth and the next they tell you only with one person. they tell you  not to have too many children, then they tell you you cant use protection, as every sperm is sacred....

or my favorite, help out your fellow man, but get rid of all your belongins first. come one guy needs money, you threw it away....fa fack sakes.

faith wouldnt exist it it wasnt based on at least some truths... if there was no truth then there would have been no reason to believe

If loretian has faith, then say in 30 years time they can prove the existence of say ethereal jesus (because lets face it science is always changing its parameters) then his faith would then be rewarded with a truth...so therefore ethereal jesus would now be a truth

in fact the world is round and it is a truth, therefore before Aristotle discovered it was round you would have been denouncing his faith...his faith was based on truths and facts

so if they proved the existence of ethereal jesus then do you think people would stop being christian? i think the opposite would occur

...how do you know that someone you do not know has proven something? do you believe them? do you take their word for it? the only truth that exists is the one you see, everything else is faith on others judgements and actions

but hey i know what you mean with your definition thing

love doesn't meet the definition of truth, but i think you believe in that.

(gayest comment i've ever made.)

The Bible states that people will not believe for other reasons than it not being true.  If the Bible is true, the beliefs you hold and many others fit exactly with what it claims.  I know that's not evidence for it's truth, but if the Bible is true, then it would NOT be taught or regarded as truth by all because it states the gospel won't be.  It's that catch 22 thing.

Anyway, it's a common misunderstanding of what faith is about when it comes to Christiantiy.  The faith is about trusting that Jesus will get you through life, regardless of how bad things are, or how hopeless things seem, not faith that God exists.

Religon will never die, it's a good way of looking down at people.

The church is in decline my friends, has been for a long time.
The reason for most of this, in a way responding to what someone else said (A couple of hundred years ago it was a criminal offence not to go to church, and blasphemy was an offence until recently.)
Years ago priests were the intellligent, they taught the kids how to read and write. Very few people apart from priests and men of the church had any real education. And you don't question your teacher.
Basically, I believe people are educated better to question the bible, and the priests don't find the "he works in mysterious ways" as effective anymore.

I doubt the bible myself. I don't believe the god that it worships. That doesn't mean, I don't believe in a higher power. If that god was real, I believe him to be dead, because this world is full of hate.
It's just like people believe in aliens now, why, without TV, internet ect to occupy their minds, could the story of the bible have not just been one hell of a exageration? Remember people killing each other because they believed that witches lived amongst them?

Will religon disappear? No. We should start a cult.

We're a buncha dogs chasing our own tails.....and we're never gonna catch it............

Thse books should asolutely be read and read SLOWLY. On each page, at the bottom, you can find references, serious ones, that exist physically and that can help you ( or anyone) do even more research.

Someone asked me about sources, these books are better, because it's too long to explain all of why Jesus wasn"t crucified, the catholic scam and these authors have done it better than i ever could:



The Grail and the Royal lineage of Christ, by Laurence Gardner
( check the title, it's my own translation) first published In great Britain in 1996 at "Elements Books Limited".


The Holy blood and the Holy Grail, by Michael Baigent, and Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln. ( and all their other books)
"Jonathan Cape Limited" ( London)


The Hiram Key, by Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas
at "Century".


Secret of the Exodus (Did the Pharaohs Write the Bible? ) by Messod & Roger Sabbah
( Can be found at Harpercollins and Amazon.com)

that is what gonna ruin religion. how people ALWAYS get everything back to their own religion. u take a christian , he'll talk about jesus for ours.
you take a muslim, allah is the man.
i mean. we, atheist, didnt kill religion, people in churches did. you killed your own god....

orgranized religion will disapear , but it wont solve the problem.
what was the biggest problem in religions ? not god ? no, never. u can believe in watever u want.
the problem was the "group" feeling. that Organization.
it will disapear, but its too late, the problem has switched to other area of society.
you have tv and consumerism
you have sororities / fraternities and all the " i wanna be part of something " feelin in the us and other 'developed " countries.
you have pop music.

the pope said in 1999 that god was dead in europe. he is kinda right i guess.
and there is this really good book, by Andre Glucksman, called " la 3eme mort de dieu " (the third death of god), and it analyse some of the aspect of the decline of religion. really good.

anyway. i have kinda like a theory about god and all.
i feel that god is what we DONT know.
as long as years go by, and we get smarter and smarter, god is slowly "dying".

a lot of people, may be happy, you know, finnaly we get rid of the religion problem.
but if we get to a complete materialistic world .... we're fucked  ;D

Religion will never die.  There have been two things that have been in every culture in some form since the beginning of time.  And those two things are religion and law.  That is still true to today.  

Before gravity was a proven fact, it was a theory.  Not a truth.  Some theories are proven true, and others aren't.


The definition you provided contradicts what you just said..


The operative word being proven.  Not believed.

And as far as "accepted" as true, religion is not pervasively accepted as truth.  Even some people who believe it will admit that it isn't truth.  There is always the conflict between those who believe and those who don't.  Henceforth, the debate is created over whether or not it is true, in which case, if neither side can prove that it's true or not, then neither the belief or lack of belief is the truth.



And that adage isn't true (pardon the pun).

Using that logic, I could say "Jesus doesn't exist" and it would be the truth.  But then someone else could say "Jesus does exist" and it would also be the truth.  And that of course creates a paradox which immediately disproves that trusty old adage of yours.

Personally, I don't believe that Jesus exists.  But I will never say that "Jesus doesn't exist" is a true statement, because it isn't, even if I believe it.


Actually I don't.  I'm the bitter old man, remember?    :rant:

no way religion will be everlasting in one form or another people are to afraid to stop believing

I think a lot of you confuse the words Faith and Religion.

People will always have some kind of Faith ( even though the divine won't help people in times of crisis, because it doesn't come down fromthe skies to give you a cuddle, pay your bills or arrest terrorists)

BUT, we are not talking of believing in some astral form of life that watches over the world.

We are talking of Religion = Man made so called sacred texts preached by untouchable meant to be sacred men = assholes making a lot of people feel guilty.

That's religion.

NO FAITH needs a house or place to be worshipped.

Faith is something personal and very different from one person to another ( just like sexuality errhmm).

Faith is in the heart, in the mind, and in the soul.

Having preachers, priests , call them what you want, leading masses of people is wrong.
Simply because they impose a unique viewpoint on religion, THEIR OWN. As humans.

No one needs to go out of their home to feel.

So Religion will die out, because people realise they do not need a " church, temple, synagogue, mosque" to have faith. Also, the moral lessons are universal, it's not even moral lessons, it's just fucking COMMON SENSE to live within a community of people.

If you have the slighiest bit of common sense, of course, you don't need to be told about " thou shalt not kill' and all that crap.

Religion will die out because most principles are 2000 years old or evne more and CANNOT be applied to today's society, beliefs, morals and daily life.

Yes Faith will remain and people need it anyway. But who needs religion ?

Do you really need someone to tell you what is right and what is wrong ?
Do you need someone to tell you what Jesus or any other saint looked like ?
Do you think everyone worships jesus and that one text has " THE" truth ?

NO.

No one has the truth. No one. There are SOME truths in history, but on the purely spiritual and astral term of it, unless you OBE and meet God himself, no one knows.

And i am sure that the people amongst us who connect the demanding deceased with the living  know a lot more about " God" than most your preachers, whatever their church anyway. :rant:

True.  Hawking is a really devoted Christian.  There is nothing in religion (I don't think) that says science is all crap, and nothing in science that prooves that religion is BS, although there may be things that suggest it, theres no proof.


But the force of acceleration due to gravity still existed, but like you said, it just hadn't been proven.

Just like religion, or a higher power or whatever, it'll probably never be proven either way, but it'll never die, because it gives people something to believe in.  Even if everyone's memory was wiped out, and all historic documents were destroyed, there would still be religions formed, because people need a purpose.  It gives people something to believe in.

It gives people something to live for.
It gives people something to die for.
It gives people something to fight for.
It gives people something to blame.
It gives people something to praise.
It gives people something to hide behind.
It gives people something to lean on.

As long as people don't start making irrational decisions based on it, I don't have a problem with it.  It's when people start interpreting "sacred texts" in their own ways and deciding that God wanted them to kill everyone who didn't agree with them that I get annoyed.

It seems though, that organised religion is full of (what I think are) retarded ideals, stupid rules, and primitive ways of thinking.  A lot of it is just contradictory bullshit.

To me, Catholicism seems like a set of rules that someone would put in place if they wanted to control everyone and prevent them from thinking for themselves.  Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't.  Who knows?

I don't follow a religion, but I'd still like to believe that there is a God or something, but if there truly is a higher power, then I don't think it would try to restrict creativity, imagination and evolution.

I agree with everything you just said except the last two lines.  Psychics are about as real as Dave Lee Roth's hair.  They exploit the weak, naive, lonely for there own personnal gain.  Most of them knowing fully it's all a crock of shit.

Not the real ones. Those don't want to be bothered, do it for free or very little and live their gift very badly, so bad they would never proudly announce it to the world. But that's another story. ;)

jessica,

I hear what you're saying about faith and religion, you are right about that - but, you're ignoring the community aspect of faith.  Faith is an individual thing, but when people share a common faith, it's natural for them to come together and practice/study it together.  As long as there is faith (in a spiritual sense), there will be religion.

Also, myself and I think most people who actively practice any of the main religions would disagree that morals get old or that the current state of society alters them.  Slavery was wrong 200 years ago, regardless of what society's standards were.  I realize not everyone will have the same morals, but I think morality is timeless.

what a frarce this is......... again I have lost my entire 2 page post....... WTF is up with the board?.......all i got was teh quote from teh start of the post....

Do you think it's right that Catholics believe if, for one moment, you question the existence of God, then you won't go to heaven?

So basically it's like saying, don't think for yourself, don't question anything, just do what I say.  If everyone did that, then we'd still be living in caves.

"Not the real ones. Those don't want to be bothered, do it for free or very little and live their gift very badly, so bad they would never proudly announce it to the world."

Ahem...there is no such thing as a 'real' psychic. It's a contradiction in terms.


My question seems to have been clouded. I am not asking if 'faith' in a God/ higher power will deteriorate per se. I am asking if organised religion (i.e. uniting under one holy book etc) will fade, and people will see religion as a more personalised thing.

catholics do not believe you will go to hell if you question the existence of God.

YES, humans do need someone to teach them right from wrong.

and more importantly, humans need consequences. so religion serves as a law of the land.

there would be mass chaos without it. so even if you don't believe in god, you should appreciate the role religion plays in society.

religion will always exist.

Sorry, I didn't see your post until now.

First of all, I'm not a Catholic, and I don't know everything that they practice.  Some of the stuff I've heard I don't agree with, but I think there's far worse organizations to be involved with (PETA, for example  - and not because of their stance on animals  : ok: )  However, I would be extremely surprised if that's the case, because that's definitetly not in the Bible, and that pretty much damns us all to hell.  The whole idea of Christianity is built around forgiveness, and the idea that were all sinners, and all have fallen short of the glory of God, and God in his great mercy, is willing to forgive all the shitty, stupid things we've done, because he loves us despite it all.

Anyway, I didn't say anything about not thinking for yourself.  My point is that right and wrong exists, and they are not dictated by society's currently accepted viewpoints.  Slavery was just as wrong 200 years ago as it is today, even if most people didn't believe it, but I'm not saying you should accept it just because I or anyone else said it.   You gotta decide for yourself.   : ok:

You don't go to hell, you just don't to heaven.  This is the reason I wasn't brought up Catholic, because my Mum was, and she thought that it was a pretty stupid thing to teach your kids "Don't question God, just do what you're told."

I'm not saying everything religion teaches is bad.  A great deal of it is good, and it's good that people get taught morals and stuff, but some of it (in my opinion) is suspect, and the people who can't figure out right and wrong without the aid of religion, and base all their actions on it, don't really stand a chance when it comes to distinguishing between the good stuff and the crap that gets thrown their way as well.

I agree.  That's why we have parents.


No it doesn't.  The law serves as the law of the land.

You're gravely mistaken if you believe the law needs religion to work properly.  It's the other way around.  Religion needs law to control it, otherwise there would be endless repetition of all the events I mention below, as there are in countries governed by religious regimes.


You're being ironic, right?  Mass chaos and religion go hand in hand.  Look at all the suicide bombings in third world countries, and the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.  Many wars.  Look at all the executions of those of differing religions conducted by people of one religion.  Recall the Salem Witch trials of the 1690s in the U.S.

All religiously motivated.  Religion is the #1 cause of the violence, decadence, and destruction in the world.  It has always harmed more than it's helped.


Firstly, one can believe in God without being religious.

Secondly, you're telling me I should appreciate that it makes people close-minded, extremist, fanatical, and intolerant?  I should appreciate all the aforementioned examples of the results of religion?  Right.... ::)


Unfortunately, you're right.  Although I would relish the day it would become extinct.  It would be a giant step closer to world peace.

That is such a flawed statement. To differentiate and segregate God (as a concept) from religion is downright defeatist. You try to seperate the two...... and you receive as a backwash, a veritable tsunami of self defeat. They are as entwined with one another, as you my dear are entwined with oxygen.

Moreover, if one were to "go back to basics" and keep things simple, then one would realize that in trying to seperate religion from the concept of God ("some astral form of life that watches over the world", as you put it) ultimately knocks the wind of validity, in ANY way, shape or form, outta religion itself.

"here would be mass chaos without it. so even if you don't believe in god, you should appreciate the role religion plays in society."

If you mean war...then...erm...

Saying that we need religion to keep us under control is folly.

"Moreover, if one were to "go back to basics" and keep things simple, then one would realize that in trying to seperate religion from the concept of God ("some astral form of life that watches over the world", as you put it) ultimately knocks the wind of validity, in ANY way, shape or form, outta religion itself."

The point of my original post was that I don't think people will stop believing in 'some sort of higher being', but that they might stop congregating under one title and worship on a more personal level. (i.e. no 'religion' per se, in the organised manner, but still spirituality.)

Well, what would happen if religion became extinct? I watched a tv show the other day and they had a theory that one day all religions will merge into just 1. ???

That's a tough question to answer, since there are many things that would have to happen before religion could become extinct.  All the questions about creation, universal existence, and mortality would have to be answered before all forms of religion could become extinct, that's why I believe that some form of religion will always exist.



That will never happen due to human nature.  The human animal is a very combative, argumentative beast who always has to debate and dispute unproven interpretations with one another.  Even people who belong to the same religion can't agree on what their own religion means.  Christianity is notorious for this.  That's why you have about 15 different branches of Christians.  Mennonites, Moormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Methodists, etc.

All members of Christianity, yet they can't agree on what it means.

So if one religion can't even possess a degree of internal stability, there's no way all the world's religions can merge into one.

we can argue all day about the negatives and positives. but the positives are immeasurable.

you can label any cult group a religion. it's really not fair to christianity though. religion isn't the cause of wars, hate, etc.  corrupt humans are. and those corrupt humans use religion as a tool to get people to follow them.

Not really. Money, power and the desire of possesion come before religion. Religion has really done some major damage, but it  doesn't come even close to the above mentioned. Look in south america, every country has had a major dictatorship over the past 100 years which has ruined the continent and killed millions of people. Some of  those dictatorships, chile, Nicaragua, Argentina were even sponsored by the us govertment to prevent another comunist regime. Look Africa, somalia, uganda, congo, ruanda...those are not religion related wars, those are civil wars, trival wars in which something snaps if you crossed over your "neighbour's property".
 
I do agree though that the arabic nations and the Middle east conflict sure is religion related, but also, it is a problem of what is yours and what mine ( Israel - Palestina)

I don't believe in any form of organised religition, but I do beleive in some shape of ulterior existence. Humans have a tenency to rely in scientific proff to whether believe in something or not. Science has proven to be erratic many times, misleading...but then again, do we humans need scientific prove of everything? faith is the belief in something you can't physically prove, however,how can you meassure something unmeassurable?.

you THINK religions influence people negatively. you also ASSUME that your beliefs are right and that there is no god. that's your opinion and naturally you're entitled to it.

but you're being naive. the positives of religion are not always tangible. but they are great. people's fear of god is a powerful thing.

BTW, where did yo get those definitions for religion and cult? i had no idea the only difference was number of members.

you shouldn't be so myopic when discussing such a complex issue. like i said before, the benefits of religion cannot be measured - because most of them we will never see (like when someone's fear of god and hell leads them down a moral path in life).

interesting dictionary you have there that provided that definition of a cult and religion.

I disagree with that.  I think for every horrible thing people do in the name of religion, there are good things people do that aren't reported and therefore ignored.  People who aren't involve in some religious community are less likely to volunteer their time for good causes, i.e. soup kitchens, food drives, building homes for the poor.  The value of community and helping your neighbor, those in need is central in a religious organization.  For the most part, religion welcomes people in, congratulates them on personal achievements and family additions, and is there for you when something bad happens (illness, disability).  It's definitely flawed, and sometimes teaches people wrong, but on the whole, religion is both good and bad for society.

Religion goes hand in hand with the history of mankind.  It will only become extinct if humans die off.

i'd ask for my money back if i paid for a dictionary that gave such a moronic definition of religion and cult.

but thanks for the info. now could you also explain to me where you get these "statistics" that support your claim of the negative influence religion provides??

please, keep it simple.

Isn't that how the governments determine what a religion is when they do all there oh so useful polls?  More than a million people and they call it a religion?  And that's how Jedi is a registered religion?

I think that's right, and if I'm wrong, please correct me, but maybe, if Dizzy's going to be wanting a refund on his dictionary, you should ask for a refund on your society, government etc..

i'll stop being so vague.

dizzy - you pulled that definition out of your ass. the english definition of "cult" has NOTHING to do with having a million members.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

i've never heard of anything regarding what the US government considers a cult. but that's not relevant to this discussion anyway.

happy ash wednesday!

warped beliefs? ouch.

i know what a cult is, and i don't make shit up about definitions in "make believe" english dictionaries.

you know i was being sarcastic when i said "keep it simple". but i understand, you're drowning in this thread.

religion can and does influence people negatively. at no point did i try to say it's 100% positive. just that the positives are greater.

you got those statistics yet???

you said it, my friend.

and again, you assume to know what i believe. you don't have a fuckin clue what i believe in. so i don't know where the "bible" comment comes from.

I already provided the examples of wars and things like that.

The terrorist attacks of 9/11.  There's one example which could constitute a stastic.  

What did Bin laden promise them?  13 virgins from God?

not really stats, but fair enough.

i think that example supports my claim that some very bad people use religion as a tool/excuse to recruit others to unleash evil and hate on others.

this is another one we could argue all day on, but my strongest argument would be that many practice the same religion as bin laden, but love the common man no matter how one's beliefs may differ from their own.

i cant believe anyone thinks religion will not exist, it has always been around and it will always remain

jsut as well i bumps this one up for all the fanatics on the board.........

what's with bumbing all these old threads?
anyway, i'll say this about religion:
i'm amazed and shocked that with all the science and technology we have today, religion is still at large, even in developed countries. i think it's incredible that the world we live in is still so influenced by religion, and i'm amazed that despite that we think we live in "modern times", we really don't. the blasphemy paragraph is still at large in alot of? western countries too, and even where it's not, it's incredible that it was just recently removed. let me tell you this, we don't live in modern times at all, we just think we do. i don't know what will happen in the future, but i promise you, this world we live in today will seem ancient. but at the same time i'm thrilled to live in a time and place where i can say whatever the hell i want about religion and "god" and not get punished for it. still, unlike alot of other atheists, i respect those who believe, as long as they don't condemn others for not believing or try to force their believes on other people. the girl i love is a christian, and i fully respect her believes because she keeps it on a personal level. i'm glad it gives her comfort and i respect it, as she respects me not believing. and that's how religion, in any form, should be. personal, not organized. and about religion becoming "extinct", well, i don't think that will happen anytime soon if ever at all, seeing as sadly some religions are too large a part of the societies in which they are practiced.

religion will always exists, its followers will not.

 :o You really think that way?? What's your source to all that stuff? Not crucified?? theres a lot of book, let not take the bible in example, but historics books that makes this a true history, he did got crucified and died.


Agree on Dizzy and Axl loco, something that can be proven doesn't mean its true, but christianity is based on Faith, bot allegations are correct the thing is this will not prevent for the Christian Church to fall, it has a lot of flaws throughout history and the church will fall for its own errors.

Anyway I do think religion we will exist always, just look this thread all people debating whats wrong or right, at the end nothing really matters, just the fact that all these things make any religion everlasting, I think the base of religion is to create peoples ideas in one ideal purpose to mankind, whether is here or the other side of the world.  :peace:

This is such a huge subject.  Religion doesn't seem to make the world a peaceful place - that's for sure.  It's not soley to blame but it has been used/abused by it's followers for far too long now. It's far too big to just go away though.  I think alot fo what they seem to teach is infact common sense values.  I know what is right and wrong to do, and i know if i do real wrongs, i will get punished for it by our courts.  But am i going to hell just because i keep an open mind?  I think our 'creators' want us to think for ourselves, be individuals but hold good values to stand by. 

But i have been thinking about  the seperatist schools.  I don't think they are a healthy thing in our modern society.  They should merge with the other schools in the communities with an equal balance of teachers from the ethnic communites as well as kids. Let the kids grow up together, building relationships with each other.  They should be allowed to get involved with other kids and celebrate each others faiths and not be made to feel different or excluded at such young ages.   Start there - in the early age schools and hopefully it will branch out as the kids grow up and visit  each other's homes for parties ect. Their parents get talking and at least acknowlege and respect each other.

May sound idealistic but it's not working as it is.   

There are many scriptures which were banned and taken out from the Bible because they were to exteme, for example: Mary Magdalene was a prostitute and was the head apostle, Jesus killed another boy when he was a child. Some belive that during the missing years of his life Jesus went to India and studied Buddism, Buddist scriptures speak of a man of pale complextion (compared to Indians) who claimed to be the son of God and born of a virgin

 :smoking: Izzy? :smoking:

this is new to me, where did you read this? about jesus being married and having kids, well i'm not a beliver so i'm open to that theory, but it's old and neither can be proven so it's not gonna make any difference to believers. they are bent on believing what the bible says no matter what, even if the DaVinci Code is proven to be true.

There are losts of interesting scriptures to read if your interested in that kind of thing. The Gospel of Thomas talks about Jesus's childhood miracles where he kills many people including children and teachers.

Jessica's theory that Jesus did not die is based on writings of Peter which claim that Christ did not die on the cross and it only looked like he was being crucified when in fact he was standing next to the cross laughing

 :smoking: Izzy :smoking:

when it comes down to it i would rather be on gods side than the devil's.

i was a christian,
the thing is you dont have to go to church to be a christian, you dont have to read the bible, you dont have to sing the songs you just need to believe.

there have been  many scientific discovers regarding the event that has happened in the bible.

MOSES parted the red sea and his people got through and when the enemies in thier chariots got half way through the water closed up...

THE CHARIOTS HAVE BEEN FOUND !!!  :yes:

so yeah i believe, just not following at this point in time

i am actually supprised that this hasnt got any real aurguing in it. most religion threads get locked

Well maybe you are right, but lets read books of that century if someone was punished to cruxified, he had to died, just for torture, people that time were very ruthless so I do beleive in a lot of books that said he got cruxified and died, If he kill a man being a child I really dont give a damn he can even been Don Cornelone of Israel, what I keep is always the good teaching not the bad ones  : ok:

Organised religions of the world the way we know them will die..
They will die cause the people whe are in power? have lost the meaning and use the religion
for personal? benefit. (Control People, Feel Superior, Fame, Money & ....)

I have been brought as an orthodox christian and although i have rejected the "religion aspect" i still believe...
For me the words of Jesus are a Socio/Economic/Politic system.
He clearly distinguished Right from Wrong and set the laws for the optimum society.
He Himself was an enemy of the Organised religion at that time...He was against the priests, and politicians = Hypocrites & manipulators)

Now The People who like to be in Power used his words to form the declined christian religion
we have today. The same is also for all religions.

I believe that "religion" Coexists with Science...God/Creator is the biggest Scientist..He created all the laws
The way i see the future is that Science and religion will be the same and people will respect "God laws" more than ever...

Logic and respect will replace fear...

I hope you understand the reason for it....... a year ago arguements on this board were so civil, they actually were worth cominginto and pulling apart ideas in a constructive manner that actaully asssited everyone....... you alwasy had your camps..... but there was little vemmin.... till some newer memebrs rerred their ugly little heads...... then it has fallen to the level of today. perhaps with some of teh "idiots" departing as of late, and some noobs that are actualy have smart the jungle debates will gather back to thier previous luster.


yes im a dreamer


but it was one of the reasons for bringing back some of these old threads....... to really show how great this section was and why so many frequent it. the cailaber of posters was far higher then what it is today.... IMo that is.

Didn't Mahatma Ghandi say someting like "It dosen't matter what book you read or what name you pray to , there is only one God that created the world and everything else so don't get into arguements with people for their different beliefs," maybe something like that but shorter. Anyway the reason you people wonder if christianity is going to become extinct is because you wish for that. Don't let those haunting memories of your parents shoving the bible down your throat control the rest of  your life. If people want to be christians, let them be and same goes for the other religions people practice. Religion probably seemed to people it was going to be extinct thousands of years ago like you people are discussing but you have to live with it. Non-catholics are having their last laughs because of priests molesting children after how much they said they followed the rules but it doesn't disprove religion, it proves that no one is higher than each other. Just look at the big picture, not every preacher in the world is going to do your kid up the butt. I know what you people mean, bible-bangers and throat shovers are assholes. But in my beliefs , God looks at it in a different way than religion describes after-life. 

Say if there was a child drowning in a pool, a christian was sitting on the other side and an athiest sitting on the other side but the athiest saves the poor kid's life. Now that doesn't prove religion is going to be extinct, it proves religion doesn't make people higher than others.  All the good choices I have made in my life always came straight from my heart, maybe these two-faced people don't know how to use it. :-\

There is a saying i love from ghandi :

Faith is like Himalaya mountains, which you cannot possibly change

To me, it is very true.

But i will always fight to say faith and religion are not the same things.

Agree with you Faith and religion aren't the same, and all the things that you want to believe is ok cause you have made a choice to believe in it. The bad things about christianity is that is sorrounded and corrupted by the same people that kileed Jesuscrhrist, dreadfully thats gonna be its fall.  :peace:

relgion will falter and fade away... but humankinds faith will always be there.....